From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #466 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, May 29 2006 Volume 09 : Number 466 In this issue: LETTER: FAULTY GUN REGISTRY CAN ENDANGER LIVES Canada Post employees found with stolen goods My letter to the Windsor Star Re: Blue Bird Club fire The good doctor Arya Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #455 Investigate the Gun Registry Ipsos Reid Questions May 22/06 ...the parrot speaks... Re: ...the Toad croaks... Ottawa police will shoot to kill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 08:22:07 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Majordomo User) Subject: LETTER: FAULTY GUN REGISTRY CAN ENDANGER LIVES PUBLICATION: The Calgary Sun DATE: 2006.05.28 EDITION: Final SECTION: Editorial/Opinion PAGE: 32 FAULTY GUN REGISTRY CAN ENDANGER LIVES SHEILA FRASER reported the information contained in the firearms registry is inaccurate and incomplete. An inaccurate database is worse than useless. It can endanger the lives of those who rely on the data. Spending one dollar or $1 billion on such a database is as good as burning the money. What benefits have been delivered by the expenditure of $1 billion? None. Of what use is a registry of bogus data? None. How many crimes have been solved or prevented by harassing responsible gun owners? None. The demise of the registry is long overdue. Robert Cohen EDITOR (It was little more than a make-work project for bureaucrats.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 08:50:18 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Canada Post employees found with stolen goods Any guns, perhaps? http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=hamilton/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148854213598&call_pageid=1020420665036&col=1112101662670 Canada Post employees found with stolen goods Calgary (May 29, 2006) Eleven trucks were needed to haul goods away from the home of two Canada Post employees who were allegedly stealing from the mail. The items included Christmas presents, electronics, CDs, games, jewellery and building materials. Police estimate the haul is worth $200,000. The husband and wife had been working for Canada Post since 2002. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 08:50:40 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the Windsor Star Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Gun registry has made for a safer society Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 10:29:07 -0400 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - Windsor Star I'm glad that Ottawa City Councillor Clive Doucet has finally stepped forward and declared his personal responsibility in setting us down the path of successive wasteful, onerous, draconian and, ultimately, useless "gun control" regimes. At least now we know to whom we should send the bill for a billion of our hard earned tax dollars wasted on this horrific boondoggle. Of course Doucet is completely wrong. The only thing that this despicable and draconian legislation has succeeded in doing is wasting money, and diverting scarce police resources into harassing and persecuting law abiding gun owners. It has done absolutely nothing to reduce the criminal misuse of firearms. The only people it has made "safer" are those very same criminals, since ordinary citizens aren't allowed to carry guns for their own defence, making them easy targets. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 08:57:12 -0600 (CST) From: Mark L Horstead Subject: Re: Blue Bird Club fire - --- Jim Hill wrote: > > It was with some shock that I saw this mentioned on > the Digest. I have > been looking for some time for information on this. > Letters to the > Papers in Montreal went unanswered and a reply from > a Fire Department > history site that I had found simply stated it was > not recorded on their > site as it did not fit the parameters of what they > were trying to portray. > > I lost my sister in that fire, along with her best > friend Kathy who was > like another sister, having spent so much time as a > teen in our house. > I was unable to read the Newspaper accounts at the > time and only > recently have been trying to find information > especially on the Inquest. > I have been unable to find anything. Had you not mentioned this, either to me privately or publicly (I forget which), several years ago I'd never have known about it either. I have mentioned it in a few editorial letters in the past, which is why I did a websearch some time ago. You're right, there isn't a lot of info available - very odd considering the death toll. My condolences again for your loss, and the shabby treatment that surviving family members received, even if it was a long time ago - these things never heal. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:00:18 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Hill" Subject: The good doctor Arya Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #455 Switzerland: a.. Has allowed physician and non-physician assisted suicide since 1941, but prohibits euthanasia. b.. Three right-to-die organizations in the country help terminally ill people by providing counseling and lethal drugs. c.. Death by injection is banned. d.. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/assistedsuicide/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 10:32:15 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Investigate the Gun Registry http://www.taxpayer.com/main/news.php?news_id=2300 May 28, 2006 Investigate the Gun Registry When former Prime Minister Paul Martin asked Justice John Gomery to head the investigation into the Quebec Sponsorship program, it was in response to Auditor-General Sheila Fraser uncovering widespread rule-breaking and possible corruption. The auditor could only go so far whereas Judge Gomery had powers to probe deeper and draw conclusions. He revealed illegal activities within the administration of the program involving the misuse and misdirection of public funds. Should the auditor-general’s findings surrounding the federal gun registry trigger a similar inquiry? In 1995, the government estimated the long-gun registry would cost $119-million to implement, but recoup $117-million through firearms license fees for a net cost to taxpayers of $2-million. Despite this assurance, the dream of a low-cost registry quickly became a nightmare for taxpayers. In December 2002, the auditor-general pegged the cost of the gun registry at $688-million. In a damning indictment of Ottawa’s management abilities, Ms. Fraser reported her office was incapable of determining the full cost of implementing the program, reporting that “the financial information was unreliable and did not fairly present the net costs of the program.” Without conducting a forensic audit Canadian taxpayers may never know the true cost of this boondoggle, which today stands at over $1-billion. There is more. In a second report tabled earlier this month, Ms. Fraser reported additional firearms registry cost overruns. Software development is “significantly over budget” and government officials continue to flout the law. Most alarming is the conclusion that $40-million in spending was not authorized or reported to Parliament. Hiding these costs broke at least one federal law, the Financial Administration Act. It also violated Ottawa’s accounting policies, which are in place to ensure rules are followed. And it meant Parliament’s constitutional power to decide how tax dollars are spent was usurped by bureaucratic fiat. What is not known is if political masters directed the scheme. This question must be addressed. The Conservative government’s response was to promise legislation to repeal the requirement to register non-restricted firearms. The program’s annual $83-million budget was also cut by $10-million. This is all well and good, but does not go far enough. Shadows of the Sponsorship program hang over the gun registry. Some might scoff at this declaration or the need to find answers. But until it is explained how a program budgeted to cost $117-million somehow exceeded $1-billion, the burden of proof rests on the shoulders of officials responsible for ensuring the proper stewardship of tax dollars. Taxpayers are seeking answers on the awarding of contracts to consultants. Paragraph 4.82 of the auditor’s most recent report concludes “the [Canada Firearms] Centre misused contracting tools to retain the services of information technology contractors.” And paragraph 4.83 reveals the government system used to award contracts was rigged and “made directed contracts appear to have been awarded competitively.” In addition “the end result [of contracting tools] was a non-competitive process and did not meet the objectives of the Treasury Board Contracting Policy.” The audit also found “on average the cost to the Centre for each consultant increased by about 25% under this supply arrangement.” Costs skyrocketed as excessive – and needless – commissions were paid to well-connected consultants. This has both the look and feel of another Sponsorship-style kickback scheme. The House of Commons Public Accounts Committee has decided to investigate who is responsible for hiding from Parliament the rising costs of the registry. Yet the committee chair has already conceded it will not be possible to remove “politics” from the examination. A wider investigation is necessary. Given what Ms. Fraser has told Canadians about the operations of the federal firearms registry, there is ample reason for Prime Minister Stephen Harper to establish an independent inquiry into this program. He should do so without delay. - --30-- For further information contact: John Williamson, Federal Director, CTF - Ottawa Ph: 1-613-234-6554 Let's Talk Taxes is a weekly commentary provided to media outlets by the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. The CTF is a non-profit, non-partisan, educational and advocacy organization funded by free-will contributions. Permission is granted to reprint or broadcast this material with appropriate attribution. Canadian Taxpayers Federation: Varette Building, Suite 512, 130 Albert Street, Ottawa, ON K1P 5G4 Phone: (613) 234-6554 Fax: (613) 234-7748 Federal Director John Williamson - E-mail: jwilliamson@taxpayer.com Website: www.taxpayer.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 10:32:43 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Ipsos Reid Questions May 22/06 Rather biased, don't you think? Half (48%) Want To Eliminate Long-Gun Registry, 47% Want The Program Continued Assuming that mismanagement and cost issues could be brought under control, which option do youwant the new Harper Conservative government to do... Continue to maintain a hand 47% gun registry and a long gun registry Continue to maintain a hand 48% gun registry and no longer require people to register their long guns at all Forty-nine Percent Want To Maintain Registry And Put More Money Into Policing, 45% Say Eliminate Long Gun Registry And Put More Money Towards Police And again, assuming that mismanagement and cost issues could be brought under control, which option do you want the new Harper Conservative government to do... Continue to maintain a hand 49% gun registry and a long gun registry and put money into hiring new police officers Continue to maintain a hand 45% gun registry but no longer require people to register their long guns at all and instead put more money into hiring new police officers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 10:55:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: ...the parrot speaks... Barry I won't speak on your behalf if you don't speak on behalf of Bruce. He's quite capable of embarrassing himself with his conduct. No need of you being his defender or parrot. I note neither of you addressed the reasons for his expulsion from the Canadian GunNutz site, a remarkable achievement within his peer group. Casting aspersions on someone else is a poor excuse for bad behaviour on his part. Now that he is moderator on this site, he gets to be ranter-in-chief with impunity. Like he said, I don't know him, and nor do care to. As for respect, I have little to none for him or anyone who hids behind a keyboard. Nor do I place value on any respect he may or may not have for me. As for a non-gun owner being a champion of the rights of gun owners, it is to laugh..... A man with nothing to lose either way. If he wins, he gets to be a gun owner. If not, he goes down as a champion of rights. Like I said, fulminate of mercury has not been used in primers for decades. In fact, not for generations. I quote from Hatchers's Notebook, page 488: "The new mixture was put into production as soon as possible, and as a consequence, all small arms ammunition made since January 1950, has primers of the non-corrosive type. Incidentally, they are also non-fulminate, as fulminate of mercury was dropped as a primer constituent about 1899 on account of the fact that at that time it was the practice to return fired cartridge cases to Frankford Arsenal to be reloaded, and the use of fulminate of mercury in primers ruined the brass of the cartridge cases for this purpose." The priming mixture used in US service ammunition primer to 1950 was indeed corrosive, but not because of fulminate of mercury. I think if you research it, you will find that the British service ammo of the same era was likewise corrosive, but not because of fulminate of mercury in the primers. So, we have established that neither you or Bruce is an authority on what is and what is not used in primers. That was my point. And as I said, the time have changed and you can no longer show up at the local co-op and load up a couple of cases of forcite as per the old days. Thanks for clarifying the point. We are unlikely going to see any lessening of restrictions on controlled materials of any kind. Quite the opposite instead. Simply a sign of the times in a post-911 world. Lastly, you may address me as 'Todd', and not the formal "Mr. Birch", since we are fellow gun owners on the same side. Right? I'm not the enemy. Todd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 11:07:14 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: ...the Toad croaks... Toad Birch wrote: > Barry > > I won't speak on your behalf if you don't speak on behalf of Bruce. He's > quite capable of embarrassing himself with his conduct. No need of you > being his defender or parrot. I don't need anyone to speak for me, Toad, and since I don't speak for Barry, I'll leave it to him to take you to the woodshed for your unwarranted personal attack on him... > I note neither of you addressed the reasons for his expulsion from the > Canadian GunNutz site, a remarkable achievement within his peer group. > Casting aspersions on someone else is a poor excuse for bad behaviour on > his part. Now that he is moderator on this site, he gets to be > ranter-in-chief with impunity. And what does that have to do with anything? Absolutely nothing at all. And I've been Moderator here long before CGN ever existed. You and anyone else can rant all they like - I'm not about to stop you. Unlike over at CGN, where there are special rules for special people... > Like he said, I don't know him, and nor do care to. As for respect, I > have little to none for him or anyone who hids behind a keyboard. Nor do > I place value on any respect he may or may not have for me. Come on over and see what's what, Toad: Bruce N. Mills 511-30 King St. E Dundas, Ont. We'll see who does the hiding... > As for a non-gun owner being a champion of the rights of gun owners, it > is to laugh..... A man with nothing to lose either way. If he wins, he > gets to be a gun owner. If not, he goes down as a champion of rights. And who says I don't own any guns? You can't seem to get anything right, can you, Toad? And what does owning guns or not mean, anyway? Does that in any way affect the validity of my arguments? No, it does not. I don't smoke or do drugs, either, and I stand up for your right to choose to do both. > Like I said, fulminate of mercury has not been used in primers for > decades. In fact, not for generations. I quote from Hatchers's Notebook, > page 488: And like I said: so what? Does that in any way make my arguments any less valid? No, it does not. > Lastly, you may address me as 'Todd', and not the formal "Mr. Birch", > since we are fellow gun owners on the same side. Right? I'm not the enemy. You could have fooled me. I notice that you haven't seen fit to actually address any of my arguments. Instead, you have indulged in nothing but a slam-fest of ad hominems against anyone who disagrees with you. Sound familiar, Toad? Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 12:01:37 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Ottawa police will shoot to kill http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=ed3de503-25da-4d5c-a25a-6813c315a4aa&k=11060 Ottawa police will shoot to kill Patrol officers to get combat weapons to 'eliminate' mass murderers Ian MacLeod The Ottawa Citizen Monday, May 29, 2006 Ottawa's 700 frontline police patrol officers will now rapidly attack when an "active killer" is on the loose and engage the shooter with new deadly close-quarters-battle weapons used for military combat. The bold switch in philosophy, tactics and equipment -- patrol officers typically "contain" an active shooting scene with handguns until tactical teams muster and move in -- is a response to the worsening global phenomenon of deranged and often suicidal gunmen opening fire in schools, shopping malls, restaurants and offices and randomly killing anyone in sight. Police are sometimes in the right spot at the right time. On Saturday, a young man opened fire with a gun in a busy Oklahoma City mall, injuring a teen before he was shot and killed by an off-duty sheriff's deputy. More often, though, the killer or killers quickly carry out their slaughter before tactical officers are ready to move in. Police now know the first 10 to 20 minutes are crucial. Instead of containing the suspect, the new objective is to hunt him down and "neutralize" him. It has been a painful lesson. In April 1999, it took an Ottawa police tactical team 18 minutes from the time of the first 911 call to muster and enter OC Transpo's St. Laurent Boulevard headquarters where former employee Pierre Lebrun had cut a deadly path through the building. When he finished firing his .30-06 calibre hunting rifle, four people were dead and two others wounded. He used his final shot take his own life. Based on established protocols, the tactical team's actions were swift. But the first uniformed patrol officer was on the scene within five minutes and others arrived within seconds. Two weeks later, the inadequacy of the conventional response to "active killer" situations was again revealed during the shooting rampage inside Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. From the time of the first call to police, it took SWAT teams 45 minutes to muster, prepare and enter the school. In the meantime, shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 13 people, critically wounded 24 and injured more than 160 others before taking their own lives. It was much the same during Marc Lepine's random slaughter of 14 young women at the Universite de Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique in 1989. It took police 20 minutes to enter the school. "Typically in these situations, it's somebody walking through the building and actively taking as many innocent targets out as possible. The conventional response of contain, hold and call in the (tactical and negotiation) experts doesn't work," says Ottawa police Sgt. Rick Keindel, in charge of the department's use-of-force training section, including the new "Immediate Action Rapid Deployment" training. "In any of these instances, (the aim) is to engage the suspect and have them turn their attention to either us, the police, or try to evade us, thereby not engaging as many as innocent targets." About 400 uniformed Ottawa officers have completed the training since February and are permitted to use it if the situation arises. Another 300 patrol officers, plus some plainclothes detectives and other officers, are to be trained by late summer. The OPP, RCMP and many other Canadian police officers have similar training. The government of Nova Scotia has made it mandatory for all municipal police officers. At a meeting tonight, the Ottawa Police Services Board is expected to approve a request from Chief Vince Bevan -- he initiated rapid deployment planning in 2002 -- to spend $197,500 for 70 Canadian-made Colt C8 close-quarters-battle carbines and scopes. About 100 officers are to be trained to use the guns, which fire 5.56-millimetre rounds. By fall, 20 to 40 of the light, short-barrelled weapons are to be on the road in patrol cars at any point in the day. They also will be used during rapid deployment incidents and will increasingly replace the department's aging arsenal of cumbersome shotguns and Colt C7 long-barrel rifles. A total of $360,000 is to be spent for the rapid deployment training and new guns. On a typical "active killer" call, the first patrol officer arriving at the scene will act as an ad-hoc commander, quickly assessing information from officials, such as a school principal or bank manager, and determining whether the suspect is actively harming people inside, either with a gun, knife, improvised explosive devices or other weapon. If so, the commander orders the next patrol officers to arrive to form a "contact team," enter the building and quickly hunt down the suspect or suspects. At least one of the contact team members will carry one of the new C8 carbines. "You basically go to the sound of the gunfire, or the sound of the screams or in the direction of the trail that you can see," says Sgt. Keindel. The other priority is quickly rescuing injured victims. When the contact team enters, "there may be somebody lying there bleeding, calling for help, pleading, tugging at your pants. You basically reassure them but just keep moving right by because you know (the commander) is going to inject a team right behind you that will take care of this person," says Sgt. Keindel. "Your priority is stop and eliminate the killer." If from the outset, or at any point during the contact team's search of the building, it becomes clear the suspect has barricade himself in a room or taken hostages but is no longer killing or injuring people, the responsibility for handling the incident reverts to the force's tactical unit and trained police negotiators. Patrol officers assume their traditional role of securing the perimeter. An important part of the rapid deployment training is mentally preparing patrol officers to confront an active killer, especially in an age where uniformed officers with handguns (Ottawa police carry Glock .40-calibre sidearms) are increasingly outgunned by criminals using large-calibre hunting and automatic assault rifles and magnum force handguns. A police officer's usual back-up weapon, the shotgun, was fine in the days of bank robberies and high-risk vehicle stops. But its limited firing range and heavy weight make it less than ideal in many situations today, including perimeter containment, room-to-room searches or firing at distant targets. The C8, by comparison, has a range of about 300 metres, an adjustable stock to suit different body sizes, and, with its short barrel, is easier to manage coming through doorways and narrow corridors. It "levels the playing field," says Sgt. Keindel. "When the gunfire starts, every sane person runs away from it. We have to run to it and have confidence in the equipment, that you can defeat that threat ... that you're going to go home at the end of day and so many more innocent lives are going to be saved." Ran with sidebar, "THE C8: 'compact, reliable, lethal'" on page A12. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #466 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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