From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #741 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, August 21 2006 Volume 09 : Number 741 In this issue: Re: Upset neighbour bares teeth over dog training club at Re: Upset neighbour bares teeth over dog training club at Re: Upset neighbour bares teeth over dog training club at Conflict with anti-hunters. Re: Who came first, the acreage holder or the farm Re: Who came first, the acreage holder or the farm RCMP UNION? Re: Conflict with anti-hunters. Hunt underway for 3 robbery suspects Police find shotgun in routine traffic stop Police search for suspects after shots fired Gang link eyed in death ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:17:37 -0600 (CST) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Re: Upset neighbour bares teeth over dog training club at > Mr Ed wrote: > > > > Ed. I'm no member of PETA. I also would not tolerate you training > > retrievers for 30 year beside me. As long as you don't disturb me with > > you actions you can do what you want. When you create a situation where > > you force you activity on me then I will do all I legally can to correct > > the situation. > > You would have had a fight on your hands then, and you would have come > to the right place. > ed/ontario Actually, Ed, I think you'd be overstepping. I've just recently trained a pointer, broken him to the gun, and used live birds in field training. In doing so, I travelled for each session quite a distance to a remote and secluded area where we would bother noone, raise no hackles over shooting birds, and were not in any way interfering with anyone else's rights. I did not even discharge a starter's pistol in the woods adjacent to my house for fear of unsettling the neighbours, and even for the non-gun training we sought isolation. Sure, we all love dogs, and hunting and stuff, but as Bruce, Al or some other stalwart on the CFD has correctly stated on previous occasion, "my right to swing my fist ends at the point of my neighbour's nose". Just because I happen to love dogs, does not mean that my neighbours should have to endure my passions. Yours in Safety, Responsibility and RESPECT. Rob Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:35:39 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Upset neighbour bares teeth over dog training club at - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Sciuk" >> Mr Ed wrote: >> >> > > Ed. I'm no member of PETA. I also would not tolerate you training >> > retrievers for 30 year beside me. As long as you don't disturb me with >> > you actions you can do what you want. When you create a situation where >> > you force you activity on me then I will do all I legally can to >> > correct >> > the situation. >> >> You would have had a fight on your hands then, and you would have come >> to the right place. >> ed/ontario > > > Actually, Ed, I think you'd be overstepping. > > I've just recently trained a pointer, broken him to the gun, and used > live birds in field training. In doing so, I travelled for each session > quite a distance to a remote and secluded area where we would bother > noone, raise no hackles over shooting birds, and were not in any way > interfering with anyone else's rights. I did not even discharge a > starter's pistol in the woods adjacent to my house for fear of > unsettling the neighbours, and even for the non-gun training we sought > isolation. > > Sure, we all love dogs, and hunting and stuff, but as Bruce, Al or some > other stalwart on the CFD has correctly stated on previous occasion, "my > right to swing my fist ends at the point of my neighbour's nose". Just > because I happen to love dogs, does not mean that my neighbours should > have to endure my passions. > > Yours in Safety, Responsibility and RESPECT. > Rob Sciuk I suppose you never read my post in the fullest / I said :" I used a cap gun and whistle around the house and yard and when I wanted to use real guns I went to the HAHA club and trained with 12 gauge blanks.>" Anybody who is offended by a girl guide whistle and a cap gun has some serious problems.And they are NOT physical. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:51:25 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Upset neighbour bares teeth over dog training club at Rob Sciuk wrote: > Sure, we all love dogs, and hunting and stuff, but as Bruce, Al or some > other stalwart on the CFD has correctly stated on previous occasion, "my > right to swing my fist ends at the point of my neighbour's nose". Just > because I happen to love dogs, does not mean that my neighbours should > have to endure my passions. On the other hand, you shouldn't be forced to "hide your light under a bushel" as they say, so as to keep from pissing off some johnny come lately urbanite. The dog club has been using the conservation area since 1988; the hard done by newcomer built his home across from the area in 1994. If he didn't hear all the barking, whistles and shooting at that time, he must have been freaking deaf. He should have exercised due dilligence in ascertaining possible "problems" before he bought the land, and built his house. And threatening to "jam that whistle down your throat" is right out of the realm of civilized behaviour. Suck it up, buttercup. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:52:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Geoffrey Wale" Subject: Conflict with anti-hunters. I make my home in Centretown Ottawa. I am the proud owner of a young Brittany I use for upland bird gunning. I take her to a some crown lands in the southern part of Ottawa for training runs. I have been using these lands for many years, and often meet up with other dog owners. These lands are one of the few places left in the city where dog owners can run their dogs off leash. Recently, I was accosted by a pair of ninnies, i.e., foolish people, who complained that my dog was "terrorizing" the little animals. Truth be told, my dog was demonstrating spectacular disobedience at the time. She was gleefully chasing a cottontail rabbit, having blissfully ignored my command to come. Funny how this kind of disobedience usually occurs when there are ninnies nearby. I tried to explain the situation to these people and asked them to kindly mind their own business. When they persisted with their complaint, I calmly told them to "piss off." This was an unfortunate incident. I try to demonstrate a high level of courtesy and ethical conduct when I am training my dog and gunning for upland birds with her. The fact that these people would complain no matter what was happening mitigates the situation, but I truly do not like being short with people. I expect they already think of hunters as degenerate apes and this confrontation only serves to reinforce their impression. Since this incident, I have been going over basic obedience with my dog in hopes of avoiding a recurrence of this situation. I realize you cannot please everyone, but still, I try to show basic consideration to those around me. Geoffrey S. Wale B.A., M.L.I.S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:29:24 -0600 (CST) From: "bletchley park" Subject: Re: Who came first, the acreage holder or the farm Ed, You sound like my wife! If you do her wrong she'll hunt you down even if it takes her 30 years. As she loves to say, " If you hurt my husband, my livelihood or my cats, life as you presently know it will never be the same". Ouch! :-) Have a good day! Peter T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:00:01 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Who came first, the acreage holder or the farm - ----- Original Message ----- From: "bletchley park" > Ed, > > You sound like my wife! If you do her wrong she'll hunt you down > even if it takes her 30 years. As she loves to say, " If you hurt my > husband, my livelihood or my cats, life as you presently know it will > never be the same". Ouch! :-) > > Have a good day! > > Peter T Revenge is sweet LOL ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:13:40 -0600 (CST) From: Douglas Bailey Subject: RCMP UNION? Anger in the RCMP ranks Mon Aug 21, 12:00 AM It's a question you'd hope any Mountie would ask by instinct: what happened? But when Rob Creasser, an RCMP constable based in Kamloops, B.C., directed it toward his bosses last month during a local radio broadcast, the brass wasted little time in slapping him down. Within two weeks, he had been summoned to a superintendent's office and issued a gag order prohibiting him from commenting on RCMP matters "in any public forum." Creasser, 48, had raised the ire of his superiors by lamenting the force's silence over what happened outside Mayerthorpe, Alta., in March 2005, when four of its own were shot to death by a well-known troublemaker. "I've gotten more off a media release than I have from my own organization," he told the station. Then, to register his displeasure where it counts, he emailed a transcript of his remarks to RCMP commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli. Creasser's actions were clearly meant to provoke. But there's more going on here than a malcontent shooting off his mouth. The 25-year RCMP veteran is part of an increasingly defiant group of officers aiming to overhaul the Mounties' top-down management style, arguing officers need freer rein to voice opinions on discipline, staffing levels and workplace safety. These so-called mounted police associations wish to overturn First World War-era laws banning officers from commenting on the force's policies and preventing them from forming a union. But in the RCMP, change never comes easy: since their inception more than a decade ago, the separate associations in B.C., Ontario and Quebec have signed up only a small fraction of their 18,000 colleagues, due to nervousness among career-conscious Mounties who equate criticism with disloyalty. The RCMP command refuses to recognize them at all. Now, unanswered questions about Mayerthorpe may be giving the mavericks new life. For months, rumours have circulated that understaffing, insufficient training or poor judgment by senior officers may have played a role in the tragedy -- innuendo fuelled by the loss last month of two Mounties in Saskatchewan (Creasser acknowledged in his radio interview that it is too early to expect a report on that incident). The force's reluctance to explain the fatal shooting of a 22-year-old in custody in Houston, B.C., has also raised the hackles of workaday officers, association members say; the constable involved, Paul Koester, has been under a cloud of suspicion since the investigation began last fall. With Mayerthorpe and Houston as a backdrop, the associations in B.C. and Ontario filed a constitutional challenge last May over the validity of the 88-year-old law forbidding them from unionizing, and arguing that the RCMP Act and regulations violate their right to free speech. "I believe it would be good for the organization . . . for internal employment and other issues to be opened for public discussion," says an affidavit filed by Creasser, vice-president of the B.C. Mounted Police Professional Association. If successful, the case would open the door to a labour-relations model similar to those in major cities, where police associations engage in collective bargaining -- revolutionizing the way the RCMP relates to its officers. That, of course, would require the courts to overturn nearly a century of tradition -- a move no judge will make lightly. The force's rigid command structure dates back to its origins as a paramilitary organization, notes Dennis Forcese, a retired expert on policing issues from Carleton University; officers and the public alike are attached to it. And senior officers deny the RCMP is as closed and unresponsive as critics claim. While they declined to comment on the freedom-of-speech issue, Staff Sgt. Ken Legge, a national executive on the RCMP's in-house staff relations program, said officers like Creasser could achieve their aims through the 34 representatives elected to communicate with management on workplace-related issues. "You have to wonder why a person wouldn't avail themselves of those opportunities," he said. The answer, of course, lies in their belief that an outright union would protect them better -- and their apparently unshakable determination to show fellow officers why. =============================================== "If You Don't Know Where You Are Going, Any Road Will Get You There!" [Moderator's Note: when posting news articles, please include the source of the item, at the very least. BNM] - --0-1985525783-1156182743=:66862 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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Anger in the RCMP ranks

Mon Aug 21, 12:00 AM
It's a question you'd hope any Mountie would ask by instinct: what happened? But when Rob Creasser, an RCMP constable based in Kamloops, B.C., directed it toward his bosses last month during a local radio broadcast, the brass wasted little time in slapping him down. Within two weeks, he had been summoned to a superintendent's office and issued a gag order prohibiting him from commenting on RCMP matters "in any public forum." Creasser, 48, had raised the ire of his superiors by lamenting the force's silence over what happened outside Mayerthorpe, Alta., in March 2005, when four of its own were shot to death by a well-known troublemaker. "I've gotten more off a media release than I have from my own organization," he told the station. Then, to register his displeasure where it counts, he emailed a transcript of his remarks to RCMP commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli.
Creasser's actions were clearly meant to provoke. But there's more going on here than a malcontent shooting off his mouth. The 25-year RCMP veteran is part of an increasingly defiant group of officers aiming to overhaul the Mounties' top-down management style, arguing officers need freer rein to voice opinions on discipline, staffing levels and workplace safety. These so-called mounted police associations wish to overturn First World War-era laws banning officers from commenting on the force's policies and preventing them from forming a union. But in the RCMP, change never comes easy: since their inception more than a decade ago, the separate associations in B.C., Ontario and Quebec have signed up only a small fraction of their 18,000 colleague s, due to nervousness among career-conscious Mounties who equate criticism with disloyalty. The RCMP command refuses to recognize them at all.
Now, unanswered questions about Mayerthorpe may be giving the mavericks new life. For months, rumours have circulated that understaffing, insufficient training or poor judgment by senior officers may have played a role in the tragedy -- innuendo fuelled by the loss last month of two Mounties in Saskatchewan (Creasser acknowledged in his radio interview that it is too early to expect a report on that incident). The force's reluctance to explain the fatal shooting of a 22-year-old in custody in Houston, B.C., has also raised the hackles of workaday officers, association members say; the constable involved, Paul Koester, has been under a cloud of suspicion since the investigation began last fall.
With Mayerthorpe and Houston as a backdrop, the associations in B.C. and Ontario filed a con stitutional challenge last May over the validity of the 88-year-old law forbidding them from unionizing, and arguing that the RCMP Act and regulations violate their right to free speech. "I believe it would be good for the organization . . . for internal employment and other issues to be opened for public discussion," says an affidavit filed by Creasser, vice-president of the B.C. Mounted Police Professional Association. If successful, the case would open the door to a labour-relations model similar to those in major cities, where police associations engage in collective bargaining -- revolutionizing the way the RCMP relates to its officers.
That, of course, would require the courts to overturn nearly a century of tradition -- a move no judge will make lightly. The force's rigid command structure dates back to its origins as a paramilitary organization, notes Dennis Forcese, a retired expert on policing issues from Carleton University; officers a nd the public alike are attached to it. And senior officers deny the RCMP is as closed and unresponsive as critics claim. While they declined to comment on the freedom-of-speech issue, Staff Sgt. Ken Legge, a national executive on the RCMP's in-house staff relations program, said officers like Creasser could achieve their aims through the 34 representatives elected to communicate with management on workplace-related issues. "You have to wonder why a person wouldn't avail themselves of those opportunities," he said.
The answer, of course, lies in their belief that an outright union would protect them better -- and their apparently unshakable determination to show fellow officers why.


===============================================
 "If You Don't Know Where You Are Going, Any Road Will Get You There!"
- --0-1985525783-1156182743=:66862-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:17:07 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Conflict with anti-hunters. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Wale" > I make my home in Centretown Ottawa. I am the proud owner of a young > Brittany I use for upland bird gunning. I take her to a some crown lands > in the southern part of Ottawa for training runs. I have been using > these lands for many years, and often meet up with other dog owners. > These lands are one of the few places left in the city where dog owners > can run their dogs off leash. Recently, I was accosted by a pair of > ninnies, i.e., foolish people, who complained that my dog was > "terrorizing" the little animals. Truth be told, my dog was > demonstrating spectacular disobedience at the time. She was gleefully > chasing a cottontail rabbit, having blissfully ignored my command to > come. Funny how this kind of disobedience usually occurs when there are > ninnies nearby. I tried to explain the situation to these people and > asked them to kindly mind their own business. When they persisted with > their complaint, I calmly told them to "piss off." > > This was an unfortunate incident. I try to demonstrate a high level of > courtesy and ethical conduct when I am training my dog and gunning for > upland birds with her. The fact that these people would complain no > matter what was happening mitigates the situation, but I truly do not > like being short with people. I expect they already think of hunters as > degenerate apes and this confrontation only serves to reinforce their > impression. Since this incident, I have been going over basic obedience > with my dog in hopes of avoiding a recurrence of this situation. I > realize you cannot please everyone, but still, I try to show basic > consideration to those around me. > > Geoffrey S. Wale > B.A., M.L.I.S. Its the same old same old , if it isnt what I believe in , its no good and your plight must be changed to suit our beliefs . Seems everybody wants everubody else to do what they do or else . I have never had a confrontation in my yard or at the gun club but I would do as you did; be polite but firm and if they persist / well ?" piss off" would not be my first choice of epithets. They could be asked to commit an indecent act on themselves . ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:58:18 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Hunt underway for 3 robbery suspects http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton/2006/08/21/1767551-sun.html Hunt underway for 3 robbery suspects Mon, August 21, 2006 Police were hunting for suspects in three robberies overnight Saturday . The rash of holdups began about 8:30 p.m. Saturday, when a man brandished what appeared to be a handgun at the Esso station near 50 Street and 101 Avenue, said city police Insp. Dan Jones. The bandit fled with an undisclosed amount of cash, while the clerk was uninjured in the heist. About 2:30 a.m. yesterday, a Yellow Cab driver was robbed by two male passengers in the area of 63 Avenue and 92 Street, Jones said. No weapon was seen. Half an hour later, a man with a knife held up a Domo station near 177 Street and 98A Avenue. No injuries were reported. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:58:38 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Police find shotgun in routine traffic stop http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton/2006/08/21/1767553-sun.html Police find shotgun in routine traffic stop Mon, August 21, 2006 Downtown cops are investigating a driver and a pair of passengers after a vehicle stopped for running a traffic light yesterday contained a loaded shotgun. EPS Insp. Dan Jones said officers pulled a man over near 108A Avenue and 99 Street around 10:30 a.m. There were two passengers in the car. Police say the trio became unruly after the driver was placed under arrest, and got into a scuffle with officers. A few scraped knuckles and minor scratches later, officers managed to pin the passengers on the ground. "It just shows any routine traffic stop could turn very deadly," Jones said. "(But in this case) officers were able to maintain control. Charges are pending against the driver. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:58:57 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Police search for suspects after shots fired http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2006/08/21/1768059.html Police search for suspects after shots fired By RYAN CUREATZ, LONDON FREE PRESS REPORTER Mon, August 21, 2006 Police are searching for suspects after several gunshots were fired at two people in northwest London early Monday morning. Two cars were seen fleeing the area after the shots were fired on Homestead Crescent about 2 a.m., police said. “We have forensic investigators at the scene right now gathering evidence,” said Const. Amanda Pfeffer. Police are looking for two cars. One is a newer white vehicle which may be a Pontiac Sunbird or Grand Prix. The other is a black, mid-1990s Mazda, police said. London Police are asking anyone with information to call 519-661-5674 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:59:12 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Gang link eyed in death http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAndRegion/2006/08/21/1767430-sun.html Gang link eyed in death No suspects in Vars body find, but victim had history of involvement with local Crips By ALEX HEBERT Mon, August 21, 2006 A police cruiser remains parked at a farm located at a farm south of Vars yesterday, one day after a man's body was found there. (Sean Kilpatrick SUN) OTTAWA police have confirmed that the bloodied body found at a Vars dairy farm Saturday afternoon is that of Mohamed Jassem Zalal, 22. The death is the city's 11th homicide this year. An autopsy will be conducted today but it is believed he died of gunshot wounds. Zalal was found wearing a shirt with his pants down to his knees. As of last night, police said they had no suspects in custody. Investigators interviewed Zalal's roommate, Elissa Smith-Banks, 26, Saturday night and broke the news to her. Believed to be an associate of the Ledbury-Banff Crips street gang, Zalal was released from jail Friday. It's believed he was killed within the next 12 hours. His brother Ahmed is in police custody awaiting trial for a firearms-related offence in late June. Yesterday in Ledbury-Banff, Zalal's old neighbourhood, news of his death had spread. SWAGGERED AWAY A man walking into a convenience store said he overheard a friend of Zalal's talking about the incident and how unhappy he was about it. When approached, the man in question said "I don't know s---about it," before walking away with a swagger. Nearby two young men stood in front of a townhouse near where Zalal had lived. While neither knew Zalal personally, they said he had lived in the Ledbury housing projects with his family. The clan moved out about four years ago because they were concerned about Zalal's activities. Although Zalal had come by the neighbourhood to visit once in a while after he moved, one of the men said he hadn't seen him for quite some time. Neither could confirm if he was part of a gang, but they said Zalal was notorious for illegal activity and had many people who would have been at odds with him, especially in the west end of Ottawa. Despite that, they didn't think anyone from Ledbury-Banff would have reason to harm Zalal. Another man sat outside his Ledbury Ave. townhouse reading a newspaper under an awning and simply said: "If you want to find out about (Zalal), try Innes Rd." Zalal was no stranger to police. KNIFE FIGHT On Sept. 20, 2003, he was arrested and charged in connection with a gang fight in the common area of the townhouse complex on Ledbury Ave. that left three people in hospital, one with a knife wound to his stomach. Some residents told police they heard a gun discharge during the altercation but a weapon was never found. In the early hours of Oct. 30 and Nov. 6, 2004, Zalal and four other suspected members of the Ledbury-Banff Crips, including his brother, allegedly smashed the windows of a south-end restaurant, before entering and assaulting staff and patrons. During the first incident, a worker was slashed in the hand with a knife. In the second, a patron was beaten with a large rock. Zalal was charged with aggravated assault, intimidation, mischief over $5,000 and causing a disturbance, while his brother received the same charges plus assault with a weapon and possession of a weapon. Last month, Ottawa police announced the formation of an 11-member guns and gangs unit that will begin patrolling the streets next month. A report released Friday by Criminal Intelligence Service Canada suggests Ontario gang members routinely carry guns. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #741 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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