From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #307 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, March 7 2007 Volume 10 : Number 307 In this issue: I NEED YOUR ADVICE AND ANSWERS TO 3 KEY QUESTIONS: in reference to Firearms Advisory Committee recommends firearms licensing "...vote Rhino, etc...." "Press 1 for English..." Advice on decriminalizing gun ownership Re: I need a quote [Wendy] RCMP to issue enhanced body armour in response to HRSDC report Re: in reference to Firearms Advisory Committee recommends firearms licensing The Dilemma Re: Advice on decriminalizing gun ownership Re: "Press 1 for English..." Re: "...vote Rhino, etc...." "...respect for the rule of law..." Which Proves the Axiom Unintended consequences of gun control? Watch Out ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:32:21 -0500 From: Bill Subject: I NEED YOUR ADVICE AND ANSWERS TO 3 KEY QUESTIONS: > I NEED YOUR ADVICE AND ANSWERS TO 3 KEY QUESTIONS: > A. Which legislative option from the Library's background paper would be most effective > at achieving my objective of decriminalizing simple possession of a firearm where no > criminal intent or unsafe activity occurs and yet still doesn't tie the hands of police > when they find firearms in a gangster's car, a biker's bunker or a criminal's pocket? > > B. Which legislative option would be most acceptable to the majority of law-abiding > gun owners, firearms organizations, non-gun owners and proponents of the current > or an even more stringent gun control regime? > > C. Should this legislative amendment be introduced as a Private Members Bill or > Motion or as an amendment to Bill C-21? None of the above!!! ALL of the needs to prevent those that should not aquire firearms, was covered in the previous legislation that resulted in the creation of  the FAC.  If a person has 'acquired' a firearm without an FAC then he or she has committed an offence of some kind..(it's not likely the punks roaming the streets with Glocks, have had them for 20 years) Background checks, etc. can be applied to the FAC  application just as they were before. It has been stated many times, the minimum acceptable situation, that complied with EVERYTHING being outlined in the LOP paper is a return to the FAC. It wasn't broke, there was no need to 'fix' it.. It would seem the ONLY driving factor in the Liberal Gun Control Farce, was Unfounded Liberal Paranoia, and of course, funnelling money to their friends.. there is NO REASON what-so-ever for the CPC to maintain this Liberal Farce except for perhaps, the pandering of votes from the ignorant.. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:00:22 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: in reference to Firearms Advisory Committee recommends firearms licensing Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:15:15 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Firearms Advisory Committee recommends firearms licensing Licencing is slavery as we all know.and all licences CAN and will be revoked on the election of the Lieberal party . This is so much like the Lieberals it makes me sick to my stomach. It is just re-inforcing what the Lieberals started . The Alliance-CPC has betrayed its western roots and the eastern voters who trusted them. Vote Rhinocerous Party , CAP or Libertarians, they cant be any worse ~! ed/ontario The Conservative Party Policy - March 2005 Firearms Policy A Conservative Government will repeal Canada's costly gun registry legislation and work with the provinces and territories on cost-effective gun control programs designed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals while respecting the rights of law-abiding Canadians to own and use firearms responsibly. Measures will include: mandatory minimum sentences for the criminal use of firearms; strict monitoring of high-risk individuals; crackdown on the smuggling; safe storage provisions; firearms safety training; a certification screening system for all those wishing to acquire firearms legally; and putting more law enforcement officers on our streets. Property Rights Policy i) A Conservative Government will seek the agreement of the provinces to amend the Constitution to include this right, as well as guarantee that no person shall be deprived of their just right without the due process of law and full, just, and timely compensation. ii) A Conservative Government will enact legislation to ensure that full, just and timely compensation will be paid to all persons who are deprived of personal or private property as a result of any federal government initiative, policy, process, regulation or legislation. The Conservative Party of Canada Policy Declaration, as approved by the Convention on March 19, 2005. - ---------- Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:24:02 -0800 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: "...vote Rhino, etc...." By all means, vote 'fringe' - if you want a return of the Liberals to power, and all that would entail for gun owners and the country as a whole. At least you're exercising one of your 'rights'; something we like to howl about losing. Every vote NOT for the CPC is a vote for the Liberals. Kind of like being 'twixt a rock and a hard place, but that's the political reality. TB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:33:12 -0800 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: "Press 1 for English..." Do you have to "Press 1 for French" in Quebec? Are you asked what language you want at ATM terminals in La Belle Province? TB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:44:00 -0800 (PST) From: Barry Glasgow Subject: Advice on decriminalizing gun ownership I can make it a lot easier than all the legal mumbo-jumbo contained in the documents forwarded by the government lawyers. Gun safety course - yes There have been proven benefits vis-a-vis hunting accidents) This puts you in a database of qualified owners. gun license - maybe Instant background checks of criminal databases should be used to identify gun/ammo purchasers who are either criminals or under prohibition order. I could live with a license that might be useful in cases where instant checks are not available (private sales, gun shows). The license would be used in this case to provide the seller with the buyers license number that could be called in over a toll-free number to verify that the holder is indeed qualified. Maybe a link could be made such that the owner is red-flagged when under prohibition. registration - no I don't think I need to go into all that. selected firearms restricted/prohibitted - no Non-criminals should be able to collect what they want. Selling to unqualified persons (again, the background check) should be a serious crime. unsafe storage offenses - no Are there criminal code offenses for leaving household chemicals in unlocked cupboards or for leaving the door to the swimming pool open? This is an attempt to legislate common sense and there are too many exceptions where having unlocked and/or loaded firearms around is a benefit and can even save lives (making this an acceptable practise could benefit non-gun owners by reversing the trend in home invasions). I'm not sure how the situation regarding the dead cop from Laval will play out but let's just say that the police should not be knocking down doors to execute search warrants against people with no criminal history. Sure, disarming the public will make them safer from extremely rare mistakes but that is at the expense of every citizen killed because predators know their victims are unarmed. Bottom line, the police are not obligated to protect you and usually show up late to take pictures of your wife's mutilated body. gun trafficking Anyone selling to unqualified individuals is guilty of on offense. There could be three levels of severity - even the first should discourage straw purchases; - - qualified individual sells to unqualified individual with no criminal history - - qualified individual sells to individual with criminal history - - criminal sells to individual with criminal history As for real criminals; anyone convicted of a crime involving violence or threat of violence should be under prohibition. Seeing as how murderers should never be released, we can make the prohibition duration fit the crime and enact lifetime bans on repeat offenders. Being caught with guns under a prohibition should be a serious crime. Prosecutors should be vigorously enforcing all laws against the use of weapons of any type in the commission of offenses - more so when the weapon is actually used. Barry Glasgow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 12:38:56 -0800 From: Lionel Trudel Subject: Re: I need a quote [Wendy] Montreal Memorial - Must Read ! From one of the gun boards. Ladies and Gentleman, I had a seat to the best free show in town today. This morning as I do every December 6th I walk over to the Montreal Memorial service at Ryerson University. It's the politically correct thing to do for some of my clients. plus I get to remind everyone about how one of Canada's greatest disasters also occurred on December 6, 1917 and what a shame it isn't remembered with more respect. During the course of todays service as always the University has some students come to the front and talk about their feelings regarding this issue. I wish I could remember the young ladies name but since I really try to ignore the whole thing I missed it. I found out later that this young lady did not even know who Wendy was or that she was a prof at Ryerson. which makes this so genuine. This young engineering student came forward and began her speech. Towards the end I nearly puked up my Starbucks. I looked over at Wendy and she looked like she had just been kicked in the head. This is what the young lady said.... "Even today we cannot begin to deal with issues of violence. Special interest groups such as gun control lobbists have hijacked the memory of these young women for their own political ends. It wasn't guns that took these lives it was a deranged criminal. We all need to look at the problem, not look to blame others." Dear God!!! Wendy went sixteen shades or orange. I was in absolute bliss. I flew to New York earlier this evening to attend a Broadway show with some friends and sign a new deal for business. Which is usually a good day for me....but nothing can top this morning. I will try to find that young lady and invite her to the range!!! Well I am going to walk through Times Square now and over to the Hollywood for a little late night snack and reflection.............Sorry you all missed it! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:32:36 -0500 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: RCMP to issue enhanced body armour in response to HRSDC report News Release - Edmonton, Alberta (March 5, 2007)=20 RCMP to issue enhanced body armour in response to HRSDC report http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ab/news/2007/Mayerthorpe_HRSDC_Mar05_e.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:40:16 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: in reference to Firearms Advisory Committee recommends firearms licensing - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Gingrich" To: "Canadian Firearms Digest" Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:00 PM Subject: in reference to Firearms Advisory Committee recommends firearms licensing > Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:15:15 -0500 > From: "mred" > Subject: Re: Firearms Advisory Committee recommends firearms licensing > > > Licencing is slavery as we all know.and all licences CAN and will be > revoked on the election of the Lieberal party . > > This is so much like the Lieberals it makes me sick to my stomach. > > It is just re-inforcing what the Lieberals started . > > The Alliance-CPC has betrayed its western roots and the eastern voters who > trusted them. > > Vote Rhinocerous Party , CAP or Libertarians, they cant be any worse ~! > > ed/ontario > > > The Conservative Party Policy - March 2005 > Firearms Policy > A Conservative Government will repeal Canada's costly gun registry > legislation and work with the provinces and territories on cost-effective > gun control programs designed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals > while respecting the rights of law-abiding Canadians to own and use > firearms > responsibly. Measures will include: mandatory minimum sentences for the > criminal use of firearms; strict monitoring of high-risk individuals; > crackdown on the smuggling; safe storage provisions; firearms safety > training; a certification screening system for all those wishing to > acquire > firearms legally; and putting more law enforcement officers on our > streets. > > Property Rights Policy > i) A Conservative Government will seek the agreement of the provinces to > amend the Constitution to include this right, as well as guarantee that no > person shall be deprived of their just right without the due process of > law > and full, just, and timely compensation. > ii) A Conservative Government will enact legislation to ensure that full, > just and timely compensation will be paid to all persons who are deprived > of > personal or private property as a result of any federal government > initiative, policy, process, regulation or legislation. > > The Conservative Party of Canada Policy Declaration, as approved > by the Convention on March 19, 2005. > > ---------- > > Yours in Tyranny, > > Joe Gingrich > > White Fox I read this post with quite a bit of consternation. The firearms community and the property rights advocates have been totally ignored , not withstanding the moratorium on registering guns until May 2007. I posted the CPC lack of honesty previously: 1.They reneged on the income trust issue , penalizing millions of seniours who depended on that income. 2. They reneged on the income splitting option for middle class and poor working couples. 3. They have ignored the RFc by NOT gutting the gun registry by unannounced orders in council , much as the Lieberals did in enacting them, and promoting BILl C-21, written by Lieberal hacks. 4.They have "promised " tougher action on criminal acts , but have yet to follow through with this promise. 5.Harper has done his best to appoint previous Lieberal beaurocrats to key positions in his government 6.Harper has adamantly refused to remove Lieberal beaurocrats from the CFC and other key positions that are in opposition to what the CPC has stated, and what the RFC is in favour of. 7.They find 1$ billion in money for Toronto but the west , who basicaly voted them into power with the help of the RFC is ignored. Somehow I find it VERY difficult to believe they will somehow follow through on their promises , other than what they think the public wants , to gain them another vote and majority at election time. FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU , FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME~!! ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:47:35 -0800 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: The Dilemma Making a graceful withdrawal from Iraq is going to be a tough one. There go the political realities mucking up a perfectly good opportunity for "winning militarily. A couple of phrases come to mind..... Holding a tiger (lion?) by the tail, one dare not let go..... or the cowboy logic..... "T'ain't no trick t' ropin' a b'ar. The trick is lettin' 'im go." TB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:49:50 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Advice on decriminalizing gun ownership - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Glasgow" To: "Garry Breitkreuz" Cc: "Cdn. Firearms Digest" Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:44 PM Subject: Advice on decriminalizing gun ownership I can make it a lot easier than all the legal mumbo-jumbo contained in the documents forwarded by the government lawyers. As for real criminals; anyone convicted of a crime involving violence or threat of violence should be under prohibition. Seeing as how murderers should never be released, we can make the prohibition duration fit the crime and enact lifetime bans on repeat offenders. Being caught with guns under a prohibition should be a serious crime. Prosecutors should be vigorously enforcing all laws against the use of weapons of any type in the commission of offenses - more so when the weapon is actually used. Barry Glasgow Licencing is inherently evil. No licencing at all , an FAC MAY be appropriate?, I havent decided yet. But if persons who were prohibited were on a list then law abiding citizens wouldnt need a licence or FAC, a safety course ?I don need no stinking safety course . The only safety course I ever had was my dad, and he made sure I followed the rules for safe conduct. Ahhhhh soooooooo~! prosecutors and judges?, aye theres the rub Horatio~! prosecutors plea bargain away the mandatory illegal use of a firearm for a guilty plea for a lesser sentence. Judges (Lieberal) dont give sentences to fit the crime. The Youth offender act should be brought down to 12 years of age (or less) ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:59:28 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: "Press 1 for English..." - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Birch" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:33 PM Subject: "Press 1 for English..." > Do you have to "Press 1 for French" in Quebec? Are you asked what language > you want at ATM terminals in La Belle Province? > > TB Dont know ? back in the 70`s during the FLQ crisis I went through Quebec on the way to the east coast on a holiday with my family Stopping in Montreal to buy gas , I pulled into a gas station .I was told they had no gas (Ontario plates on vehicle and trailer) As I prepared to leave and find another gas station a vehicle with Quebec plates pulled in behind me and started to fill up with no problem. I subsequently swore I would never go to Quebec again or buy anything made in Quebec .and I havent . I have spent mutliple thousands of dollars travelling to the US and Mexico for holidays, where I am ALWAYS welcomed with open arms.... To be absolutely fair though ? the people in the Gaspe were salt of the earth and very friendly. They didnt want my money then and they never have received a dime off me since .And never will. The separatists are traitors to Canada, the only country in the world where we pay people to destroy Canada I`ll see them in H*ll . hopefully they go first. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 17:00:14 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: "...vote Rhino, etc...." - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Birch" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:24 PM Subject: "...vote Rhino, etc...." > By all means, vote 'fringe' - if you want a return of the Liberals to > power, and all that would entail for gun owners and the country as a > whole. > At least you're exercising one of your 'rights'; something we like to howl > about losing. > > Every vote NOT for the CPC is a vote for the Liberals. > Kind of like being 'twixt a rock and a hard place, but that's the > political reality. TB Thank you for your considerate encouragement. ed/onatrio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:00:32 -0800 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: "...respect for the rule of law..." We're being a little selective here, aren't we?; Krawczyk's gender bias nothwithstanding. There is a school of thought that regards it as one's civic duty to oppose and disobey the law; bad law. There's the rub....one man's (woman's) interpretation vs the state. Applying this rationale, the likes of Ed Hudson, Bruce Montague and others are nothing but scofflaws choosing to disregard laws they don't like. In order to be regarded as good citizens with due respect for law, it follows that we ought to have no quarrel with the provisions of C-68, which until repealed, are the law of the land. TB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:40:35 -0800 From: Len Miller Subject: Which Proves the Axiom Re Subject: War College Professors Predicted Iraq Debacle--Warn Against Early Pull Out Which only proves the axiom: The fight you start . . may not be the fight you want . . And since 'we' got into this fight based on a lie . . then getting 'out' would seem to be the only remedy. After all 'we' have become the terrorists . . to them . . And I am sick and tired of being treated like a criminal on a Canadian air carrier . . by recent immigrants . . ( don't even bother to go there . . ) Len Miller PO'd senior citizen ( POSC) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 12:29:01 -0800 From: Len Miller Subject: Unintended consequences of gun control? CDN Firearms Digest V10 #306 Mr. Strashko asks some serious questions . . > Man charged in officer's killing was defending family, lawyer says . . > . Wasn't someone dialling 911 when house was being attacked? Weren't they CALLING the cops? Why would he need a lawyer to say that? Where is the defence of necessity? Shades of Waco? Ruby Ridge? Shades of Atlanta, where the drug squad got the wrong house attacked it and shot an elderly women who may have believed she was being home invaded by criminals? > I also wonder what evidence was presented to the judge for the > warrant...??? > The last sentence is the most telling . . AS in the case of Jack Gentles where his stolen registered gun having been found in a gang-bangers car in Calgary . . was proceeded by a full force RCMP tactical assault which resulted in Gentles' panicked suicide. Make sure of your target. After all, criminals get the wrong house . . as well . . . Just how, in a few panicky moments, can the law abiding gun owner make the distinction? Either the criminal kills him . . or the police kill him? And for the same reason. the wrong house . . Len Miller Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:45:38 -0800 From: Len Miller Subject: Watch Out As posted on the Discussion Forum for "SuperCub.org ''The Home of All Things PA-18'' Gun Owners of America Legislative Alert -- Oppose McCarthy Gun Control Bill, H.R. 297 Gun Owners of America 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102 Springfield, VA 22151 (703)321-8585 Tuesday, January 23, 2007 The first major anti-gun bill of the new Congress has already been introduced, and it could prove to be the most serious threat to the Second Amendment we face under the new congressional leadership. On the first full day of the new Congress, anti-gun Rep. Carolyn McCarthy introduced H.R. 297, the most massive expansion of the Brady law since it passed in 1993. This is a bill you helped kill last year, but the new House leadership will be even more eager to pass it than were their predecessors. This bill provides, in the form of grants, about $1 billion to the states to "provide the National Instant Criminal Background Check System [NICS] with all records concerning persons who are prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm regardless of the elapsed time since the disqualifying event." For instance, the bill expands upon the unconstitutional Lautenberg misdemeanor gun ban passed as an amendment to a 1996 omnibus spending bill and signed into law by President Clinton, was originally introduced by leading anti-gun Senators Frank Lautenberg, Dianne Feinstein, and Edward Kennedy. Under the Lautenberg ban, people who have committed very minor offenses that include pushing, shoving or, in some cases, merely yelling at a family member can no longer own a firearm for self-defense. This could have a significant impact on American servicemen, especially those returning from combat situations and who seek some type of psychiatric care. Often, veterans who have suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder have been deemed as mentally "incompetent" and are prohibited from owning guns under 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(4). Records of those instances certainly exist, and, in 1999, the Department of Veterans Administration turned over 90,000 names of veterans to the FBI for inclusion into the NICS background check system. The fact that metal health 'experts,' a notoriously anti-gun community, would have a say in who is allowed to possess a firearm is, quite frankly, frightening. Many in the profession would just as soon consider anyone who owns a gun as 'mentally incompetent'. This bill was first introduced in 2002 by Rep. McCarthy and Sen. Chuck Schumer. It passed out of the House that year, and was only defeated by a GOA-supported filibuster by former Sen. Bob Smith (R-NH). Since the bill has already been around for several years, look for Speaker Nancy Pelosi to put this bill on the fast track as a way to thank Sarah Brady and her anti-gun cohorts. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #307 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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