From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #350 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, March 26 2007 Volume 10 : Number 350 In this issue: Spokesman says there are 124 gangs working in B.C. Suicide Methods in 2003: 35% hanging, 22% overdose, 18% firearms Police seize guns, drugs Entends tu, le chien aboyer? Re: Pork barrel politics is back in town Montague case and "Armchair Quarterbacks" Re: One-time gun licence surfaces for second time Re: Discussion - debate Government will continue to operate a licensing system Re: One-time gun licence surfaces for second time More on the Social Contract ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, March 26, 2007 8:32 am From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Spokesman says there are 124 gangs working in B.C. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca PUBLICATION: The Province DATE: 2007.03.25 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A8 BYLINE: Matthew Ramsey SOURCE: The Province WORD COUNT: 950 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- Special police unit keeps busy cracking down on street gangs: VIOLENCE FEARED. Spokesman says there are 124 gangs working in British Columbia - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- Police head in the front door. Hells Angels head out the back. It's 10:40 p.m. on Friday at No. 5 Orange and the Vancouver police gang-violence task force is making its first bar check of the evening. Members will conduct four more such scans before drunken brawls on Granville Street require their full attention. It's a typical night for the city's newest task force. And as The Province took an exclusive look at the unit at work, one startling safety fact about the city's night scene surfaced: Every bar tour would unearth at least one gangster. The checks done by the task force are critical to preventing gang violence in the city, says Sgt. Rod Pedersen, who founded the unit. "Vancouver is the honeypot where all these different crime groups and factions come to play and do business," says Pedersen, a 28-year veteran of the force. "We don't back down from these guys. We're more than willing to get in their faces. "We're sending a clear message. Every time we see them, we're going to stop and say hi." In police parlance, "saying hi" means scanning IDs, conducting pat-down and vehicle searches, checking no-contact orders and curfews -- and whispering the key message into the right ears: We know who you are, and you're not welcome here. The 18 members of the task force know their targets and after two weeks' work, the targets know they are being watched. "As soon as they see us, they're running now," says Pedersen. "It's totally opposite to the way they used to be." On this night, the Hells Angels leave the crowded strip bar via the back door, pull jackets over vests emblazoned with the gang's signature winged skull and pile in to a vehicle. Task force member Sgt. Doug Spencer pulls them over a few blocks away. The driver is a full-patch member of the Haney chapter. He is chaperoning Angels from Edmonton and is "extremely upset" by the inconvenience, Spencer says with a smile. The carload of gangsters is allowed to move on. No matter. The unit has gained valuable intelligence about who is talking with who. That information will be shared with law- enforcement agencies across Canada, a key priority for the task force. They'll complete 12 such reports on this shift. Back at the No. 5, officers check the identification of two short men with copper tans, expensive jeans and predatory smirks. Their demeanour oozes arrogance. Other police are patting down an immense young man in a black leather jacket. The naked dancer moves on stage, seemingly oblivious. Bar patrons' eyes flit between her and the cops as police wade in to the smoking room and haul out a diminutive, well-dressed man with a baby face. The slick, grinning duo, their little friend and the big man are all ushered out and their vehicle searched. Baby-faced or not, the four are members of the United Nations gang, an increasingly powerful criminal force in the Lower Mainland, with approximately 70 confirmed members and 300 associates carving out territory wherever they can find or take it. "The UN gang is the most feared gang out there, because of the level of violence," says Det. Const. Dawn Richards. "These young guys, they won't back down." Persian gangs and the UN are fighting right now, as are the UN and Hells Angels and any number of other known criminal organizations. The list is virtually endless, with 124 identified gangs at work in the province. The fear is that gunfire will erupt in Vancouver, catching innocent civilians in the crossfire. "It could happen in any nightclub, at any time for any reason," Pedersen notes. "They just don't think about the consequences of their actions. They're not so much fearless as they are stupid." The task-force concept originated with the firearms interdiction team in August 2004 after high-profile gang-shooting murders at Loft 6 and Club Aqua. The gang-violence task force follows the FIT model: identify, locate and intercept in whatever legal way possible. It's on a three-week trial run through the end of March, brought about by five gang shootings and two murders in the city in recent weeks. Pedersen says cancelling the effort now would be asinine. "[The gangsters] will return to bringing violence to the city," he says. "If the public only knew how busy these guys are, it would be a real eye-opener. We're only scratching the surface." After the No. 5, the unit heads to the Drake, where Pedersen has been told there are several full-patch Angels. It wouldn't be much of a surprise. John Bryce, the president of the Angels East End chapter, has listed the Drake Hotel's Powell Street address as headquarters for a numbered company he owns. There are three men outside. One runs inside when the six police cars pull up. Pedersen and the team file in. Again, the Angels are gone. Full-patch Nomad Robert Green is there, though, in the smoking room, puffing on a cigar and wearing a sweatshirt with the Angels insignia on his chest. He manages the show lounge and he's not happy to see Pedersen and his colleagues. Equally displeased are two young men the officers pull outside and search because they reek of marijuana and are sitting with a prolific bud grower. The last club of the night is Au Bar. It's there police come across Aman Lalli, a member of the Independent Soldiers gang who has the tattoos on his left forearm to prove it. Lalli just happened to be in Loft 6 in August of 2003 when guns were drawn and his best friend, Paul Dosanjh, was shot in the head. Dosanjh survived that incident, only to be shot to death in a restaurant in March 2004. Lalli is found in the bathroom at Au Bar. He chats politely with the officers; they take a look at his tattoo. All the while, Lalli holds his hands in front of him, palms pressed together as if in prayer. He looks to be about 12 years old. There's no shortage of kids ready to replace him. The next generation is posing already -- online, with guns and knives, until they can do so legally in bars. On websites like Nexopia and MySpace, they boast of belonging to gangs like Surrey Thugs Incorporated, Skeena Boys, Sunset Boys, Cop Killing Villains, Night Crawlers and the Rez Back Pinoiz. The number of gang members has increased "overwhelmingly" in Pedersen's time with the police force, as have the ways police go after them. Pedersen says it's the result of choosing a life in gangs that has stayed the same. "We see the gritty side of it," he says. "We've got to deal with the broken bodies and the blown-out brains. It's not very glamorous then." mramsey@png.canwest.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, March 26, 2007 8:34 am From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Suicide Methods in 2003: 35% hanging, 22% overdose, 18% firearms - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca PUBLICATION: The Calgary Sun DATE: 2007.03.25 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 37 BYLINE: CENTRE FOR SUICIDE PREVENTION WORD COUNT: 40 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- Alberta suicide facts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- - - Total number of suicides (1999-2003): 2,233. - - Average number of suicides per year (1999-2003): 440. - - Male-to-female ratio of nearly three-to-one. - - Alberta average rate of suicide per 100,000 (1999-2003): 22.4. National average rate of suicide per 100,000 (1999-2003): 17.9. - - Most at-risk: 35-55 year-olds. - - Methods in 2003: 35% hanging, 22% overdose, 18% firearms, 12% carbon monoxide poisoning. - - Men most likely to hang, women most likely to overdose. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:36:06 -0400 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Police seize guns, drugs PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen DATE: 2007.03.25 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A4 SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen WORD COUNT: 95 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- Police seize guns, drugs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- The arrest of a 21-year-old man Friday night yielded drugs and guns. Ottawa police officers seized a 12-gauge shotgun, a .357 Magnum handgun, four long-barrelled assault rifles, magazine clips and about 200 rounds of ammunition from Roseview Avenue residence in the city's west end. Police also seized cocaine, marijuana, ecstasy pills, cash and digital scales. Police were then led to an address on Henry Farm Drive, where they seized a .45-calibre semi-automatic handgun and about 100 infant marijuana plants. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 07:28:48 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Entends tu, le chien aboyer? The Necessity for Blunt Questions: Years ago Wlliam F. Buckley cited the story of a woman who, at an embassy party in Moscow, asked Josef Stalin "When are you going to stop killing people?" He (Buckley) said that we need that kind of bluntness sometimes. Of course, Buckley was a conservative with some principles, and that was before so-called conservatives became rabidly right-wing nuts . . . far to the right . . . of the John Birch Society that Buckley so disdained. That example should be held up to the wimps # of the Washington press corps # who whine that confronting the president with his lies would be, as they say, impolite or as Elisabeth Bushmiller believes, too scary to try. - -- Middle Aged Veteran PermalinkMay 4, 2006 14:31:47 PDT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------------------------------------------------------------- # the early identity the "globan male'' - -------------------------------------------------- MARK TWAIN . . (TWO FATHOMS) The captain of a Mississippi paddlewheeler, proceeding upriver, tasked a deck-hand to inform him of the safe passage through the uncertain/perilous waters . . With nothing more than a lead-weighted line, the least of the crew, the least educated and lowest paid member of the crew, would toss the line into the turbid water, and call out: Mark Twain . . two fathoms. The captain, the highest paid, would heed the message, and thereby steer a safe passage and not be caught on a sand-bar. The 'dumbest' among us, may sometimes see . . what the 'brightest' and most educated cannot. Why did Sam Clemens chose 'mark twain' for his tocsin . .? . . makes one think . . doesn't it . . .? tocsin \TOCK-sin\, noun: 1. An alarm bell, or the ringing of a bell for the purpose of alarm. 2. A warning. Gun control IS (see Clinton . . for the definition of what ''is'' . . is ) a cruel hoax. Global warming is the new 'gun control' . . Len Miller Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:06:08 -0700 From: "Al Muir" Subject: Re: Pork barrel politics is back in town > Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:35:57 -0500 > From: Lee Jasper > Subject: Pork barrel politics is back in town > > Re letter from MP cross-posted from Gunnetz: > >>Canada's New Government delivered on its campaign promise to eliminate > the long-gun registry >> > A bit of a stretch, eh . . .? > >>and introduced mandatory minimum penalties for the criminal and serious > misuse of firearms. >> > I recall much chest thumping and other ritualistic behaviour trumpeting > the massive expansion of Canada's penal system and the huge increases in > correctional budgets to commit people to Club Feds. > > Lest we miss the mark and blame the FirAdvCom for outcomes not within > its control: I think most of us know the FAC is powerless and control NOTHING Lee. All the more reason they should have simply outlined what is acceptable and let the CPC do what they have planned on doing for a long time anyway. Al Support criminal control, not placebo gun control ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:43:47 -0600 From: "Bruce Montague" Subject: Montague case and "Armchair Quarterbacks" Lee Jasper wrote: "I'd start by 'firing' the 'case management team' and hire a good lawyer and start by instructing him, "Mr. lawyer, don't listen to us yappy, opinionated GOM, you just go and charge ahead as you 'know' best. When you say jump, we'll only ask which way and how high." Lee, I would respectfully say that you have no idea of what you are talking about. It's easy to criticise actions when you only know part of the story. There are many factors that went into our decision to discharge our lawyer and when to do it. If you or anyone else thinks they can do a better job than our Case Management team you are most welcome to attend these sessions and become fully informed of all the issues before casting your "stones" at them. We have a very dedicated Case Management team that has volunteered countless hours of their time, not to mention thousands of dollars of their own money to help in this effort. None of us have a personal "agenda" in this case. These are selfless people willing to represent YOU in the best possible way. These are true patriots and I have the utmost trust in their decisions. It is difficult to adequately answer all the questions people have in a letter like this, and I won't even attempt that. We have real work to do, and I think the bulk of the issues have already been covered. For those who want to know more, I would suggest they show up next time and see the issues for themselves and offer us some constructive criticism when decisions have to be made. In closing, I think you owe our team an apology for this ill-informed and prejudicial comment you made. Yours in Liberty, Bruce. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:11:07 -0700 From: "Al Muir" Subject: Re: One-time gun licence surfaces for second time > Date: Mon, March 26, 2007 6:40 am > From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca > Subject: One-time gun licence surfaces for second time > > - - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca > Precedence: normal > Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca > > PUBLICATION: New Brunswick Telegraph-Journal > DATE: 2007.03.26 > SECTION: News > PAGE: A1 > BYLINE: Rob LinkeTELEGRAPH-JOURNAL > WORD COUNT: 438 > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - -------- > > One-time gun licence surfaces for second time > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - -------- > > Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day is considering a one-time > application for lifetime gun licences - the very thing Miramichi Liberal > MP Charlie Hubbard argued for in 1995 - before the government spent $1 > billion in cost overruns on the gun registry. So the CPC plans on doing what a Liberal previously suggested. Could we expect anything else? Maybe if the Reform party was still around I could pretend to be surprised. Al Support criminal control, not placebo gun control ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:35:34 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Discussion - debate - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Jasper" To: "' Can Firearms Digest'" Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: Discussion - debate > Eduardo said: > >>Does a discussion of the CPC's activity vis-a-vis adopting a "life-time > license" have to become "mutually destructive; ruinous or fatal to both > sides, and characterized by bloodshed or carnage" ?? >> >>Could we not adopt the Moderator-pro tem's guidelines for respectful >>discussion and exchange ideas rather than insults ?? >> > > WELL SAID !! > > A bit more discussion and a lot less DEBATE (browbeat, threaten, cudgel, > argue) would resolve the problem. I have said this before : I believe there are those on here who are either in the employ of government hacks or are extremely sympathetic towards their views . In my view I believe these persons are deliberately causing angst and discord amongst the RFC to keep us divided. This is the ONLY way the CPC can gain control over us. The answer?: For the moderator for one to remove ALL PERSONAL jibes from this forum. They are neither needed or productive to ensuring our cohesiveness. The ones making these uncalled for remarks because the posts they are NOT in agreement with their narrow point of view should be banned. Lets keep this forum polite and allow educated non-personal discussions only .This is the ONLY way to DEFEAT those who would divide us.(which is truly the purpose of personal insults on here as many have left this forum because of several insulting and demaning p[osts to others opinions. ALL PERSONAL JIBES SHOULD AND MUST BE KEPT OFF CHAT.Those who feel they cannot strive with us must strive without us . ED/ONTARIO ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:36:53 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Government will continue to operate a licensing system The government will continue to operate a licensing system The Honourable Jim Prentice, P.C., O.C., M.P. Calgary Centre-North March 2nd, 2007 Edward B. Hudson DVM, MS Secretary Canadian Unregistered Firearms Owners Association 402 Skeena Crt Saskatoon, SK S7K 4H2 Dear Mr. Gingrich, It was a pleasure to have met you in February at the Saskatchewan Party Convention, and I thank you for your letter. I always appreciate hearing from concerned Canadians and I assure you that I have taken your thoughts under advisement. I take the promises contained within the Conservative Party's 2006 platform seriously, and I make every effort to ensure that these promises are kept. That is why my Cabinet colleagues and I approved Minister Day's plan to amend the Firearms Act. Most noticeably, the clauses requiring owners of non-restricted long-guns to register their firearms will be removed. This change will put an end to the targeting of responsible firearms owners with excessive bureaucratic procedure and costly registry processes that were a hallmark of the previous Liberal governments. Minister Day's plan also commits the Government to reining in spending at the Canadian Firearms Center and ensuring that necessary information flows to law-enforcement agencies as effectively as possible. That being said, the government will continue to operate a licensing system (as opposed to the dual licensing and registry system operated by the previous government) for non-restricted long-guns to ensure that only those individuals who complete a background and safety checks will be permitted to possess firearms. This policy is consistent with our 2006 Campaign Platform which, on page 13, emphasized the need for a certification system requiring background check and safety training for all those wishing to acquire and use firearms legally. It is my view that this procedure protects lawful gun owners from excessive interference while addressing the need for a firearms policy that focuses its efforts on public safety, I also believe that the spirit of this policy meets the criteria laid out in the Joint Policy Statement you had the courtesy to forward to me. I hope this adequately addresses your concerns and that the Conservative Party will continue to enjoy your support. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future with any other concerns you may have. Sincerely, The Honourable Jim Prentice, P.C. Q.C., M.P. 401 Confederation Building, House of commons, Ottawa, Ontario K1A )A6 Tel: (613) 992-4275 Fax (616) 947-9475 Prentce.J@parl.gc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:05:14 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: One-time gun licence surfaces for second time On 2007 Mar 26, at 9:11 AM, Al Muir wrote: >> One-time gun licence surfaces for second time >> >> Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day is considering a one-time >> application for lifetime gun licences - the very thing Miramichi >> Liberal >> MP Charlie Hubbard argued for in 1995 - before the government spent $1 >> billion in cost overruns on the gun registry. > > So the CPC plans on doing what a Liberal previously suggested. > Could we expect anything else? Yes, I think we not only could, but we SHOULD expect something else; we should expect our elected MP's to do what they promised to do. Stephen Harper and the "new" Conservative government MP's ran for office on the promise of providing "accountability." For twelve years Garry Breitkreuz was the Firearms Critic, and for twelve years Mr. Breitkreuz had the full support of Mr. Harper to make promises to the people of Canada that the Conservative would "repeal the Firearms Act." I do not think that I am being naive in expecting the person that I supported with my time, energy, money, and VOTE to keep the promises he/she made. Rather, I think I would be stupid to accept a lie from an elected Member of Parliament. If we allow the people for whom we vote to lie to us, to make promises which we allow them to break, then our their promises and our votes become a mere mockery of democracy. I think we should be outraged that Stephen Harper is not fulfilling his promise to repeal the Firearms Act. I think we should be demanding that our MP's honour their promise to repeal the Firearms Act. I have no intention to vote for a liar. The person who seeks my vote must be willing to look me in the eye and make a promise to keep his word. Otherwise democracy is a bad joke and the Taliban are more righteous than we. Sincerely, Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:15:43 -0700 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: More on the Social Contract Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712-1778) was a French philosopher, thinker and political commentator whose observations on the "social contract" appear to be as valid today as when he wrote them. No less so than the founders of the revolutionary American Republic, oft quoted on this forum. What was valid and applicable to human affairs then, is no less so today, in terms of the collective and individual rights inherent under the 'social contract'; that tacit and sometimes documented agreement whereby men govern themselves. Needless to say, we often fall far short of the ideal in the implementation of these principles, but if you don't aim high, ...... Jim and others frequently try to raise the bar of political awareness by giving us a broad based view on world events and the political decisions behind them. These are the events that embroil us in unwinnable foreign wars and create the hysteria of domestic terrorism, necessary to autocratically impose Draconian measures of control deemed necessary for the 'peace and good order' of society - i.e. departments of public safety and homeland security, massive public surveillance, regulatory control of goods and material, etc. When this is done, the terms of the 'social contract' are broken and it becomes necessary to reassess and re-evaluate the 'social contract' anew. Failure to do so can be rightly regarded as tacit approval, even if unspoken. If there is sufficient dissatisfaction, it is time for the mob to storm the Bastille or in our case, hold an election to establish a new mandate, a new 'social contract'. This brings me to the point of this post (I know you've been wondering)...... Rousseau makes it quite clear that 'right of property' under the 'social contract', hinges on legal title. No legal title, no right to property. This is the dilemma we face with no documented rights to property. It matters not whether we are talking guns or goods of any kind. This makes it easy to deny the right to own and bear arms without regard to any rights to self defence. We are fighting the fight in reverse and first need to establish the 'right of property' under the Canadian 'social contract'. Think this not so and that Rousseau's was out to dejeuner? Think again, for one of the premises of the 'social contract' is that of the "right of the first occupant". This is the basis of the Indian land claims and their legal fight to have the terms of the 'social contract' (read treaties) honoured in the courts. This argument carries considerable weight for less than 5% of the national population. The "right of possession" notwithstanding, the "right of the first occupant" is not dismissed and does not cease to exist because someone plants the flag of sovereignty on a virgin shore. We see evidence of this every day and there is no reason why it is not applicable to us as property holders, including guns. I have learned more about government from Rousseau's treatise, how it works (ideally) and how it fails to deliver on the 'social contract' through excess and violation of the terms of the 'social contract', than from any other source. This ought to be required reading for anyone wanting to become politically aware in order to make an informed vote and play a role in the creation of a new 'social contract'. Any wanna-be politician who hasn't read it is unqualified, IMHO, particularly one who aspires to become a federal MP. Of course, reading such stuff isn't as much fun as sniping at each other and ad hominem attacks, but that's why we are not making the gains we would like - we don't understand and are not informed of our rights within the 'social contract', preferring to goad each other and engage in petty quarrels like politically naive children. TB ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #350 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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