From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #353 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, March 27 2007 Volume 10 : Number 353 In this issue: Directorate of controlled goods Pot-kettle-black Subject: Re: More "Social Contract" Shooting Events The Social Contract Gun owners respond to gun control letter in HT-The Hill Times The Police on The Hour with George Stroumboulopoulos Did you take a personality test? OR A mental health evaluation? USA - Here's one way to stir up millions of gun owners Tory gun bill likely to pass: US Senator's Aide Arrested for Gun Possession Man in 30s shot on the Main Victim identified accused as shooter, court hears 737 firearms have since been seized or turned in to police ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:23:26 -0500 From: "ross" Subject: Directorate of controlled goods THis is one scary government body. All firearms almost without exception owe their lineage to some military design. Given that, should the policy wonks and admin people ther get it into their heads that all forearms are so pedigreed. you can kiss them goodbywe. I wrote my MP on this, and will most likely not get any answer. the question to ask your MP ius this. When will they stand up and fight for our charter rights so we dont have to be second class citizens in our own country. Why arent they fighting for our rights. even hardened criminals get their charter rights and more, yet we who have committed no crime, are treated worse than pedophiles. we are indeed discriminated against by the government and our human rights are also being infringed by their very action against our charter rights. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is exactly why Bruce Montague is/was in court, but you do have a very good point. Why aren't we writing/talking to the people who are supposed to represent us in government? There are others on this forum that can give you the answer to the rest of your Q's that are better qualified than I can. - -DRGJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:28:09 -0700 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Pot-kettle-black Mred decries the low level of discussion on he CFD at times and then comes out with a vitriolic outburst of his own. Blanket statements, without naming names such as: "... either in the employ of government hacks or are extremely sympathetic towards their views..." "...deliberately causing angst and disorder ...." He calls for "...educated , non-personal discussions only..." and wants posts "...not in agreement with 'their' narrow point of view..." banned. Specifically, who is he referring to? Just whose "narrow points of view" are we discussing here? Sounds like impersonal attacks to me, which are even less acceptable than those naming names, and censorship of what he does not agree with, his personal "narrow point of view". No wonder we lose subscribers to this forum when and the firearms community comes across as a bunch of semi-illiterate boobs with mindless, irrational,illogical gibberings of this sort passing for intelligent discussion amongst like minded people. TB ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I do not censor anybody's opinions, unless they are; directed at a particular idividual and are demeaning in nature, and even then, unless it's totally vitriolic and full of directed XXX profanity-period. If we look bad, or whatever it is because it is a reflection of said, and we then deserve what we get. So it's "all of our's responsibities" to attempt to bring a higher standard to this forum and if one finds a certain post not to their liking, then it is up to all of us to either attempt to correct the irrational, and/or not engage in personal vitriolic retalaitory attacks. Which is not what you are doing in this instance. You may have valid points, but that is for "you folk" to collectively decide through debate. That is not my job. I am not a censor of peoples' opinions. CFD Temp Morderator-DRGJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:39:08 -0400 From: "Ted Ferg" Subject: Subject: Re: More "Social Contract" - ------Bruce Mills akimoya@yahoo.ca wrote: >I would maintain that letting the Lieberals win the election so they could fully implement their anti-gun policies would >be a *good* thing: once all those semi-auto, lever action, and pump gun owners discovered that their guns had been deemed >"inappropriate" for them to continue to own, you'd hear such a howl of protest that would make the FED UP rallies look >like a drop in the ocean. I don't usually contribute to the ongoing discussions. But I believe I need to comment on the above statement. If the Liberals form the next gov't and continue with their anti gun policies, very few people in Canada will notice and with the exception of the firearms enthusiasts/hobbyists no one will care. Most people in Canada have very short attention spans and may be upset for a short period of time about more controls. But they will forget to be upset about more controls as soon as the floating head on the evening news reads the next story. I have been a firearms owner for a number of years. I find that very few people have any interest in the sport and do not see any reason for any one to own a firearm. A lot of people think I am eccentric because I own firearms and participate in the sport. In my opinion the only way to avoid additional controls is to support a party that will not increase controls. Politicians, of any party, will always attempt to be on "the side of the angels" regardless of the issue. Let's face it for the majority of Canadians firearms controls are what they want. They do not see firearms controls as a reduction of liberty. For Canadians to have increased liberties, we will need to elect gov'ts for the next generation that will slowly reverse the erosion of liberties we have experienced over the past 20 odd years. No gov't whether a minority or majority will survive for very long; if it tries to change the course we are on in one or two terms. Cheers Ted ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:30:16 -0500 From: Keith Subject: Shooting Events Ladies and Gentlemen of the Firearms Chat line http://gunclub.universalstartpage.com/ If you are in the area of Sault Ste. Marie Drop in at the range on a date posted on the Web Site Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:23:40 -0700 From: "Hans" Subject: The Social Contract Hi Dave, Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Not exactly what you asked for, but check out the link below: http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/thesocialcontract/thesocialcontractt= oc.htm Also you may find this link interesting: http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/ Take care, Hans ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Glad you got it all figured out. And Thank you for bring this to our "happy little gang" of Merry folk, on our forum! Read you again soon. CFD Temp Moderator-DRGJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:37:32 -0600 From: "David R.G. Jordan" Subject: Gun owners respond to gun control letter in HT-The Hill Times The Hill Times, March 26th, 2007 LETTERS http://www.thehilltimes.ca/html/cover_index.php?display=story&full_path=/2007/march/26/letter6/&c=1 Gun owners respond to gun control letter in HT; Re: "To understand misuse of guns, look to Texas," (Letters to the editor, p. 9, The Hill Times, March 19.). Instead of looking at the big picture, Mahmood Elahi uses extreme isolated events to provide proof for his claim. Anyone can find anecdotal evidence to back up their assertions but to get a better idea of the impact that something has on society it is always more important to look at the big picture. Jeff Gardiner Waterloo, Ont. * What does the action of one distressed Texan kid have to do with Canadian gun control? As far as I know, we are a very distinct society. In the last 30 years, Canada has had more school shootings than Texas. Should we be learning something from this fact? Since we are talking about the U.S., maybe letter writer Mahmood Elahi could explain to us why U.S. cities such as Washington, D.C., New York and Chicago, which have the most stringent gun laws in the world are also the most violent cities in the U.S.? Maybe it is because criminals could not care less about our rules, regulations and social values. Michel Trahan Verdun, Que. * Mahmood Elahi should do a better job of researching when he goes on one of his anti-gun tirades. When he says Texas is "the national capital of the gun culture," he should have noted that the 2005 statistic for murder and non-negligent homicide was 6.2 (per 100,000 population), whereas the homicide rate in Washington, D.C. was 35.4. What Mr. Elahi would never admit is how the presence of firearms actually contributes to a lower crime rate. There may be incidents of rare tragedies outlined in his letter (going back 13 years to find one), but vastly offset by the lives saved by law-abiding citizens using firearms for self-protection. Getting back to relevance to Canada, legal gun ownership has never been a problem of crime or murder. Our murder rates have been steadily climbing over the last years since Bill C-68 and gun control was implemented in Canada. Given the choice of either having a gun control state/high murder rate like the city of Washington, D.C., or having the lower murder rate of Texas, I would choose the Lone Star state every time. Lionel Trudel Vancouver, B.C. * Mahmood Elahi clearly displays his ignorance when it comes to violent crime and its relation to private firearms ownership. He leads readers to believe that Texas is a haven for violence and uses isolated incidents in order to make his point. However, when you look at the facts, this simply isn't true. Kyle Erhart Winnipeg, Man. * It's clear letter-writer Mahmood Elahi is not properly informed about firearms, which may explain his irrational fear of them. We tend to fear the unknown and are quick to judge what we don't understand. Mr. Elahi is guilty of passing unfair judgment not only on firearms but on Texans as well. He states, when Texans like Juan Ramon get angry, they "start shooting." Being of French Canadian heritage I would be offended if I was stereotyped as "a poutine eating lumberjack." Unfortunately Mr. Elahi resorts to using stereotypes as a basis for his argument. We have had a handgun registry in Canada since 1934, yet handgun crime is on the rise. Our long gun registry has cost close to $2-billion to date. The registry did not prevent a depressed and dangerous individual from shooting students at Dawson College. Mr. Elahi fails to see the point that a gun cannot pull its own trigger. A gun is a tool, used for target shooting, hunting and to protect one's life or the lives of others. The focus should not be on the tool, but on the individual. Pierre Dupont Oshawa, Ont. * I find Mahmood Elahi's letter regarding firearms ownership in Texas to be a quaint bit of propaganda at best. Shawn Mulock Calgary, Alta. * It is inevitable that as long as there are unstable people willing to do harm to others, there will be murders of innocent people, regardless of whether these acts are performed through shootings, stabbings, bombings or beatings. Dan Smith London, Ont. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Comment on this story http://www.thehilltimes.ca/html/send_email.php?what_story=/2007/march/26/letter6/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:32:05 -0600 From: "David R.G. Jordan" Subject: The Police on The Hour with George Stroumboulopoulos No, it's not about the rock band called "The Police". Please read on. Well, there I was, just after the CBC National, taking a look at all of the days posts and checking out all of the really good links that you folk had threw out for all of us to read...or to at least have a look at... and then "George" from "The Hour" started his next segment with this thing he calls; "It's Monday, so its Disinformation Night. " "It's a dangerous world out there. Who is gonna protect us ? The police ? The boys in blue? The Po-po? Do they really have to protect you? Here's tonight's disinformation." The Police The Hour with George Stroumboulopoulos - http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1506 Well I damned near fell out of my chair to actually see someone from the "mothercorp" actually say what they did and use a well known resource to "us" as a reference! I can't tell you about all what was all said in the media clip, or it'll spoil the "shock value" and I couldn't find a "text version" of the clip, either. Suffice it to say, Allan Rock is not sleeping very well tonight. More on the 'morrow. Later-DRGJ "Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom." - -Samuel Taylor Coleridge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, March 27, 2007 6:38 am From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Did you take a personality test? OR A mental health evaluation? - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca QUEENS UNIVERSITY: PERSONALITY ASSESSMENT LABORATORY RESEARCH STUDY http://commerce.queensu.ca/commerce/2006/commerce.nsf/0/2E257EB5F07B908C 8525728D005B746B?OpenDocument Headline: Did you take a personality test as part of the recruitment process? Announcement: PERSONALITY ASSESSMENT LABORATORY RESEARCH STUDY (with payment for participation) Dr. Ronald R. Holden, Department of Psychology, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario In the previous 3 months, have you completed a personality questionnaire as part of: A job application? OR A workers' compensation claim? OR An evaluation for child custody? OR Marital counseling? OR A mental health evaluation? OR A legal assessment? If you are 18 years of age or older and are willing to volunteer to share your views, we would appreciate hearing about your experiences. Research participation requires a 20-minute telephone interview and will be done at a time that is convenient for your schedule. You will be paid $15 for your participation. All responses are STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL. If interested, please call Dr. Ronald R. Holden, Personality Assessment Laboratory at 613-533-2346 or email: holdenr@post.queensu.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 08:42:18 -0400 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: USA - Here's one way to stir up millions of gun owners Here's one way to stir up millions of gun owners By GEORGE F. WILL - March 25, 2007 http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/4660082.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, March 27, 2007 7:40 am From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Tory gun bill likely to pass: - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca NOTE: Versions of this CanWest story also appeared in the following papers: Ottawa Citizen, Vancouver Sun, Montreal Gazette, Edmonton Journal, Winnipeg Free Press PUBLICATION: National Post DATE: 2007.03.27 EDITION: National SECTION: Canada PAGE: A4 DATELINE: OTTAWA BYLINE: Janice Tibbetts SOURCE: CanWest News Service WORD COUNT: 514 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- Tory gun bill likely to pass: Threat of law and order agenda as election trigger fades - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- OTTAWA - A bill to automatically jail people for more than one dozen gun crimes appears to have enough support to pass the Commons, weakening speculation the government could trigger an election by painting the opposition as obstructionist on anti-crime legislation. The NDP is planning to team up with the Conservatives to vote for the proposed legislation -- a centrepiece of the Conservative justice agenda - -- giving it the backing it needs in the minority Parliament. The bill has been winding its way through the parliamentary process since it was introduced last spring, and it is expected to come back to the House of Commons for final debate as early as this week, followed by a vote next month. If the bill passes, it will require escalating sentences for a variety of gun-related crimes, ranging from three years for a first offence to seven years for repeat offenders. The original bill proposed a 10-year minimum sentence for three-time offenders for certain crimes, but the government has decided to eliminate the 10-year term in exchange for NDP support. "If that is what happens, we will support it," said NDP justice critic Joe Comartin. The Bloc Quebecois and most Liberals oppose the legislation, insisting judges retain at least some flexibility to sentence as they see fit. The Liberals and Bloc members of the justice committee had teamed up to effectively kill the gun bill last month, but the two parties do not collectively hold a majority in the House as they do on the committee. The Conservatives, from Prime Minister Stephen Harper down, have seized every opportunity to chastise the opposition for blocking crime legislation, prompting speculation the government is setting the stage to use its stalled law-and-order agenda as a reason for going to the polls. "They think it suits their purposes to try and paint us as not caring about keeping our communities safe," said Liberal justice critic Marlene Jennings. Mr. Harper's government has risen to 40% in public support and entered majority government territory, according to an Ipsos Reid Poll conducted for CanWest News Service and Global Television last week. Many opposition MPs say the Tories are looking for a good reason to pull the plug on Parliament and call a vote this spring. Labour Minister Jean Pierre Blackburn told the Montreal Gazette last week that justice bills could trigger an election call, and Mr. Harper has made it clear to his caucus he is prepared to go to the polls to push through his law-and-order agenda. The Liberals, who are struggling in public opinion polls and are believed to have little to gain from a spring election, renewed an offer two weeks ago to support four justice bills to ensure their quick passage in the Commons. The overture, however, was rebuffed by the Conservatives on the grounds that it "offends the rules of the House" to rush a bill without going through the entire parliamentary process, such as public hearings by the justice committee. The bills in question -- one to raise the age of sexual consent to 16 from 14, another to reverse the onus on bail for gun-related crimes so that suspects must show why they should be freed, and two housekeeping bills -- have enough support to virtually guarantee their passage. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:53:29 -0400 From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Majordomo User) Subject: US Senator's Aide Arrested for Gun Possession From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca To: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca US Senator's Aide Arrested for Gun Possession WASHINGTON (AP) - An aide to Sen. Jim Webb was arrested Monday when he entered a Senate office building with a loaded pistol belonging to the senator. Capitol Police spokeswoman Sgt. Kimberly Schneider said the aide was charged with carrying a pistol without a license and possessing an unregistered firearm and unregistered ammunition. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=3DD8O44EEG0&show_article=3D1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:07:21 -0400 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Man in 30s shot on the Main PUBLICATION: Montreal Gazette DATE: 2007.03.27 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A6 PNAME: Montreal COLUMN: In Brief SOURCE: The Gazette WORD COUNT: 107 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- Man in 30s shot on the Main - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- A man in his 30s was shot several times at close range early yesterday morning during an altercation on St. Laurent Blvd. near Ontario St. A gunman approached the victim and shot him multiple times in the legs, said Constable Andre Leclerc of the Montreal police. The victim was still in a hospital yesterday. His life is not in danger. The suspect fled on foot and has not been arrested. Police have not found a motive for the shooting, but said they don't believe it was linked to street gang activity. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:10:36 -0400 From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Majordomo User) Subject: Victim identified accused as shooter, court hears From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca To: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca PUBLICATION: The Chronicle-Herald DATE: 2007.03.27 SECTION: Metro PAGE: B7 WORD COUNT: 295 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- Victim identified accused as shooter, court hears - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- TRURO - Lying wounded and bleeding on a basement floor, Courtney Penny identified Marshall James Fulmer as the man who shot him in the leg, police testified during an aggravated assault trial Monday. RCMP Cpl. Darren Bernard said he and other officers were called to a shooting at Mr. Fulmer's East Mountain, Colchester County, home on Nov. 22, 2005. The armed officers entered the bungalow where Cpl. Bernard said he saw a gun and blood smear near the back door and heard a human "gasp" from the basement. "I observed a man lying on the floor awake and alert looking up at me," he testified, adding the weakened and somewhat panicked Mr. Penny had facial injuries and a significant amount of blood near his hip and waist. "He said the person who shot him was Marshall Fulmer," said the corporal, who also recalled seeing other firearms from a nearby gun cabinet scattered on the floor. Mr. Fulmer, a clean-cut, tall and lanky 25-year-old, is on trial before a Nova Scotia Supreme Court judge and jury on charges of aggravated assault, discharging a firearm with intent to cause bodily harm, using a shotgun while committing an indictable offence, and pointing a firearm. The trial began Monday with the selection of a 12-person jury of mostly women. Jurors heard evidence from five Crown witnesses, including four Mounties and a paramedic. According to various witnesses, Mr. Fulmer reported the shooting at his home to 911 shortly after midnight, and then stood with his wife by the road near his home to flag down police. Const. Gordon Hynes testified he arrested the suspect less than half an hour later, and agreed under cross-examination by defence lawyer Stan MacDonald that self-defence was not considered a motive at that time. The trial continues today. Crown attorney Alison Brown anticipates calling roughly 10 witnesses in all, including Mr. Penny and blood-spatter experts. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:11:57 -0400 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: 737 firearms have since been seized or turned in to police PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Sun DATE: 2007.03.27 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 7 ILLUSTRATION: photo OUTGOING CHIEF BEVAN Too few cops per capita BYLINE: AEDAN HELMER, SPECIAL TO SUN MEDIA WORD COUNT: 255 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- Cops tout youth crime, gun gains - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------- In his final presentation to the Ottawa Police Services Board before his retirement, outgoing Chief Vince Bevan delivered a "good news story." The Ottawa Police Service released its 2006 Activity Report yesterday, outlining the force's successes and shortcomings. "It's important to give the community a snapshot of police activities," said Bevan. The report shows 737 firearms have since been seized or turned in to police since Bevan unveiled a gun amnesty program in January 2006. The report also highlights success stories in youth crime-plagued neighbourhoods, such as Banff-Ledbury in the south end. DEVELOP PARTNERSHIPS "We know where we need to make our investments and we know we have issues with youth crime, so it would serve the whole community very well to work in partnership with educators, and with parents to work toward reducing the amount of youth crime," said Bevan. "We need to do everything that we can to make sure that parents have good parenting skills and that kids learn, among many other things, how to be good citizens." Not all the news in the report is positive. Ottawa ranks ninth among Canadian cities in police officers per capita. In 2005, there was one officer for every 745 Ottawa residents. "I think that is problematic, for the communities that we have and the responsibilities that we have," said Bevan. "I think the board in the future will have to have these discussions with the community about what level of concentration we'd like to see as far as that ratio is concerned." CSI-STYLE PROBES Ottawa police also made advances in CSI-style forensic investigations. In 2006, the they collected 131 DNA swabs from crime scenes. "There was a big focus on this in the area of break-and-enters," said Bevan. "There were 97 DNA matches in 2006, and those DNA samples helped us solve 149 crimes." The stats presented to the board were preliminary; the finished report will be distributed to 103,000 homes as an insert in newspapers April 2. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #353 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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