From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #607 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, June 26 2007 Volume 10 : Number 607 In this issue: FW: A human perspective on gun control 3 hurt in shooting incidents Four sought in brazen Jane-Finch area shooting Divorce, Canadian style All we need . . Protect Your Gun Rights! RE: PM, public servants at odds over policy JFPO article ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:23:42 -0700 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: FW: A human perspective on gun control From: Clive Edwards [mailto:45clive@telus.net] Sent: June 26, 2007 2:19 PM To: mp@chuckstrahl.com; Day.S@parl.gc.ca Cc: localmla@uniserve.com Subject: A human perspective on gun control Hi, Chuck & Stock - You might find the attached article refreshing after the whining about "banning guns" coming from Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa. It is from "Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership", a group I joined back in the days when I was a Reform Party member. Everyone thinks that during the thirties in Germany only the Jews were disarmed. Wrong. The Nazi's first disarmed everyone, then allowed only the police, military and Party Members to have firearms. Is this where Canada is headed? Clive Edwards Member, Conservative Party of Canada Member, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (Article was in encoded mime format, and not postable. Could it be resent in text format, so that it can be posted. BUZ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:54:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: 3 hurt in shooting incidents http://www.thestar.com/article/229138 3 hurt in shooting incidents Rachel De Lazzer Jun 25, 2007 10:28 AM Toronto police are seeking a suspect after a man was shot by an acquaintance last night as he gave the gunman a ride. The incident began around 11 p.m. when the suspect phoned the victim and asked for a ride, said Det. Gord McNeilly. The 43-year-old victim complied and picked up the man in the Keele St. and Eglinton Ave. W. area. As they travelled west on Eglinton, the passenger asked the driver to pull into nearby Keelesdale Park, just before Black Creek Dr. Once they were in the parking lot, McNeilly said the suspect pulled out a gun and shot the victim once in the leg. “The bullet ended up shattering the guy’s femur,” McNeilly said. “His leg’s just a mess.” The victim remains in hospital. Police are now trying to locate Douglas Moreira, 26, of Toronto. He is wanted for aggravated assault and firearms offences and is considered armed and dangerous. Moreira is described as standing five-foot-two and weighing 161 pounds. He is clean shaven, with brown eyes and a tattoo that says “Adrian” on the left side of his neck. He was wearing blue denim pants and a white long-sleeve shirt, say police. The incident was one of three shootings in Toronto last night. Police were first called to an address on Grandravine Dr., near Jane St. and Finch Ave. W., at around 7 p.m., after a 39-year-old man showed up at a nearby hospital with a bullet wound to the knee. They’re now looking for five suspects, said Staff Sgt. Gerry Cashman. Hours later, police were called to the Humber River Regional Hospital after a 24-year-old man was dropped off in the parking lot with a bullet wound to the foot. That incident occurred near Jane St. and Eglinton Ave. W. around 10:30 p.m., said Staff Sgt. Noel Lee. None of the shootings resulted in life-threatening injuries. Anyone with information is asked to contact police at 416-808-1200, Crime Stoppers anonymously at 416-222-TIPS (8477) or online at www.222tips.com. With files from Nick Kyonka and Tamsyn Burgmann ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:57:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Four sought in brazen Jane-Finch area shooting http://www.thestar.com/News/article/229356 Four sought in brazen Jane-Finch area shooting Tamara Cherry Staff Reporter Jun 25, 2007 09:06 PM Police are looking for four men after a 39-year-old man was shot Sunday night in the leg with his baby son just steps away. Shirley Singh was sitting in the backyard of her Grandravine Dr. townhouse, in the Jane St. and Finch Ave. W. area, around 7 p.m. when she heard gunshots, she said in an interview Monday afternoon. Her 2-year-old grandson was in a neighbour’s backyard as her son-in-law, Dave Gill, spoke with a friend on the path dividing the two houses, Singh said. “We were just sitting, talking,” she said. “These guys came out of nowhere.” Singh heard one gunshot, then saw the group run past as another gunshot rang out. Realizing he’d been shot, Gill managed to make his way off the path and then he collapsed. Singh ran to her crying grandson. “They were just shooting at each other, these guys,” she said. “So he got accidentally shot. But this shouldn’t happen in the first place. Bullets don’t have eyes. It could have been that 28-month-old baby who got shot right in front of my eyes.” After Gill was shot, the young men kept running, Singh said. The men appeared to have been involved in an altercation with a second group of males near Grandravine and Driftwood Aves. before they began running through the housing complex, “firing aimlessly in all directions,” police said. As they ran past Gill, one round struck him in his right thigh. Gill was released from hospital on Monday. Making his way down the path where he was shot and through the gate to the backyard, he didn’t want to talk to the media or have his picture taken for fear of reprisal from his shooter. “You can understand why we don’t want his face shown,” his wife said after he was inside. “We don’t want people to know where we live.” Less than two weeks ago, 86 people with alleged connections to the notorious Driftwood Crips gang were arrested during pre-dawn police raids. Most lived in Singh’s neighbourhood. But gunshots have continued to ring out in the area. Just last week, two men were left with non-life threatening injuries after being shot during a dispute on a nearby basketball court. Police are looking for as many as four suspects. Singh said she won’t be surprised if residents are hesitant to come forward with information about the suspects from Sunday night’s incident, as in the case with most of the area's shootings. “Everybody fears for their life,” she said. “If justice was being done, people wouldn’t be afraid to say anything. ... These guys go in to jail, stay one night, and they’re getting bail to come on the streets again. You say something, they’re going to come back to you.” As television cameras filmed police officers on Monday walking past Singh’s home, she said the only time she sees officers is immediately after a shooting happens. “When you hear something happen in the area, you see the police (that) day. After the thing dies down, you don’t see police again until something happens again.” She rarely sees the security officers hired by the city to watch over the area, she added. A woman in a townhouse across from Singh’s said she doesn’t allow her three children and the three children she babysits to play outside, for fear of gunshots being fired. “It’s scary,” the 11-year resident said. “Kids live here. They want to be in their backyard. They want to feel safe.” Another woman speaking through her screen door said she’s lived in the housing complex for four years. Nearby shootings in recent years have made her fear for her safety, but Sunday night's put her over the edge. “I have to move,” she said. A young woman staying at her aunt’s townhouse said she feels bad her loved one lives there. “She has to deal with the consequences of other people’s actions,” she said. Singh hopes public officials take action to prevent more innocent people from being shot, but isn’t convinced much will be done. “The politicians, they talk and talk and talk. They’re going to get guns off the road and they’re going to do this and they’re going to do that. By the time they get people, they’re in the lock-up, two days later, their lawyers get them out.” While she understands neighbours don’t come forward to police, Singh hopes parents of the suspects will. “They need to find jobs. They need to get a hold of their life,” she said of gun-wielding young men. “Their parents should take control of them. ... They should do something about it. Don’t swear on the Bible that your kid was in the house at that time, (that) they didn’t commit the crime. You don’t know what the hell they’re doing out there.” The four suspects are described as black and between 17 and 20 years old. Three of them were about 5-foot-9 with medium builds and short Afros - two were holding black handguns. The fourth suspect, about 6 feet tall with a thin build, was holding a silver handgun. Anyone with information is asked to contact Det. Domenic DiPassa at 416-808-3104 or Crime Stoppers anonymously at 416-222-8477 or www.222tips.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:00:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Divorce, Canadian style http://www.thestar.com/article/227157 Divorce, Canadian style Jun 23, 2007 04:30 AM Facts and figures about life in Canada: [cut to the last figure...] 5,800 Average daily queries from police officers to Canadian Firearms Registry Online (CFRO) for the first three months in 2007. Compiled by: Jo-Anne Petropoulos and Marian Traynor, Star Library. Sources: Smartrisk (Reports: Ontario Injury Compass & The Economic Burden of Injury in Ontario), Statistics Canada, Toronto District School Board, Royal Canadian Mounted Police They just can't resist spewing their lies and propaganda, can they? lettertoed@thestar.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:09:22 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: All we need . . Cc: The Star That's all we need . . Can't use a gun to defend against an armed burglar, but at least the boarder( oops) the border will be safer. Paul Cellucci, former U.S. ambassador to Canada, said the regulation will make the border safer. Safer than what? Hell, they can't keep their Mexican borders safe . . 'They' have 3 million illegals . . . "If you're working on a joint team and you're chasing some criminal, you're not going to be dropping your weapon every time you go across the border," he said. ( every time? ) "We're working together, we're going after the same bad guys. ( these 'bad' guys are listed on the no-fly list, which we are not privy to rather than preventing you from flying, they could shoot you instead?) It's in our national interest to stop the terrorists*, to stop the smugglers *." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, look how it's working in Iraq . . And anyone * else they happen to shoot by mistake . . American citizens can carry concealed . . while Canadians aren't permitted to possess . . in our own homes . . Just who would be the terrorist, a panicky armed american, who makes a mistake, or the canadian he shoots by that mistake? Fortunately, for the American, he happened to think he shot a 'future terrorist' . . . . . good enough for our minister of safety? Madness . . . Len Miller Vancouver= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:44:30 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Protect Your Gun Rights! Please Contact Senator Leahy Today to Protect Your Gun Rights! Anti-gun billionaire and NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg is at it again! He is pressing U.S. Senator - Patrick Leahy - to vote to release sensitive information on firearms trace data that could compromise gun owner privacy and law enforcement investigations. For more than five years, gun-hating politicians from big cities have sought access to confidential law enforcement data on firearm traces. Their intentions are clear - to conduct a massive fishing expedition aimed at driving gun dealers and gun manufacturers out of business through bogus lawsuits. This is a backdoor attempt to undermine the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bush in 2005. This landmark law blocks harassment lawsuits intended to hold gun manufacturers and dealers responsible for the misuse of firearms by criminals. Release of confidential firearm trace data would gravely impact lawful gun owners' privacy, interfere with law enforcement investigations and can even endanger the lives of rank-and-file law enforcement officers. Such disclosure of firearm trace data will also enable Bloomberg to pursue his radical anti-gun agenda in the courts. Every year since 2003, the U.S. Congress - with the support of the National Fraternal Order of Police and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) - has passed strong language to keep this information confidential. This legislation - a series of amendments to the appropriations bill that funds the BATFE - is widely known in the House as the "Tiahrt Amendment," and will be considered as the Shelby Amendment by the Senate Appropriations Committee this Thursday, June 28. Senator - Patrick Leahy - is a key member of this important committee. Please e-mail him TODAY and call at least one of his offices below TODAY to urge him to defend America's law-abiding gun owners and law enforcement officers by supporting the Shelby Amendment to protect firearms trace data disclosure: Please tell Senator Leahy that this may be the most important vote he casts all year! (802) 863-2525 (Burlington) (202) 224-4242 (DC) (802) 229-0569 (Montpelier) (202) 224-3479 (DC Fax) E-mail: senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov For more information on the Tiahrt-Shelby Amendment visit: www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=208 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:25:05 -0700 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: PM, public servants at odds over policy In recognizing the 1915 Armenian genocide for what is Harper is doing the right thing. Turkey is trying to hide an evil event behind the mists of time. Just as Canada has acknowledged inappropriate treatment of Japanese and Chinese Canadians, Turkey can only go forward by admitting past wrongs. To do less is to perpetuate evil and lay the groundwork for future genocides. Anyone who does not understand this discussion needs to view the DVD, "Innocents Betrayed", available from www.jfpo.org. Harper and the Conservatives are to be commended for this public stand. I wish Harper God Speed in solving the problems with Canada's bureaucracy. Clive Edwards Member, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership Member, Conservative Party of Canada The Prime Minister's comments were a response to questions about his 2006 decision to recognize the deaths of an estimated 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey in 1915 as genocide. The move was a significant departure from the position of successive Canadian governments and so angered the Turkish government that it briefly recalled its ambassador. The row made international headlines, with Turkey pulling out of a May 2006 joint military exercise in protest and an adviser to the Turkish prime minister complaining to Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay in an Ottawa meeting. And this April, the Turkish foreign ministry warned Harper against Canada's continued recognition of the genocide. Comments by Canada's ambassador to Turkey from April weighing in on the dispute between Ottawa and Ankara. In comments to Turkish daily Zaman, Yves Brodeur suggested Turkey has a simple public relations problem. "It's about influence, it is about making sure that they have enough knowledge to make a decision that makes sense, and it is about talking to them and telling them (Turkey's) side of the story. In this case I believe that Turkey started much too late," Brodeur said. On April 20, 2007, the Prime Minister's office was preparing to issue a statement recognizing the 92nd anniversary of the genocide. A draft statement from bureaucrats, which the Armenian National Committee later described as watered down, landed in the hands of the committee at 9 p.m. The statement referred to the 1915 slaughter as an event that "has been called the first genocide of the 20th century," and suggested the deaths may have been linked to World War I fighting. "Canada's recognition of the Armenian genocide, frankly, was a major change in policy for the foreign service of Canada, not an easy one to understand," he confided. "It has been difficult for some people." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:53:07 -0700 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: JFPO article Copy of JFPO article sent to Chuck & Stock. Clive Gun Control isn't Charity, It's Theft. "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." - -H. L. Mencken As a people dedicated to performing Mitzvot and giving Tzedakah, Mr. Mencken's remarks can be a bit tough to digest. But as a group of individuals dedicated to securing firearm freedoms for ourselves and our posterity, we at JPFO can tell you that Mencken was indeed a very wise old grouch. But before we get to that, I'd like to discuss what Tzedakah really is. Don't get me wrong. It is very noble to give a portion of one's own harvest (now usually in the form of an envelope from H.R.), and it is nobler still since that same harvest has already been looted by Uncle Sam before it even gets to you. But, my friends, I'm here to tell you that giving this money is not going to "save the world". And I'm also here to tell you that this is nothing to worry about. You see, the world is not some fainting princess in the jaws of a dragon, waiting for her knight-inshining armor to sweep her away from certain doom and into the land of happily-ever-after. Our world is a big, messy place where over six billion different individuals are trying to get through each day in one piece. In our world, there is no happily-ever-after. Nobody can make that happen by sending their kids to Hebrew school every week with an extra fiver. The best we can do is give what we can and hope that our donations can make someone's life a little easier, a little fuller, a little bit less like the movie "Oliver!". You can help people, sometimes in profound ways. But you can never really "save" them. Because all the giving in the world isn't going to change the character of humanity. You can just increase the odds that they'll find a way to save themselves, and thus be saved by G-d. A wise person knows this, because a wise person knows that they cannot control the lives of others, and that they are not G-d. So when a Jew decides that their Tzedakah should go not to the needy or to the sick, but to groups supporting gun control, what are they really trying to accomplish? They're not going to help anyone who's suffering. Gun control groups are composed of wealthy dilettantes with too much free time and too little wisdom. They spend their donations on lobbyists, media campaigns, and speakers' fees. Hardly a group in dire need of your spare canned garbanzo beans. "But but but!" you'll hear them say, "gun control helps make things better in the poorest neighborhoods by fighting crime!" Of course, they never heard that the Centers for Disease Control found that gun control has never been effective at all in fighting crime. (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm) They never stopped to consider the fact that the poorest neighborhoods in the U.S. by and large already have strict gun control, and it has not helped them. See, when they think about crime, they think of a terrible event that MIGHT happen once in their entire lifetime. They don't consider the inner-city merchant whose profits are wiped out by constant robberies. They don't think about the elderly couple facing desperate poverty because their Social Security money is stolen every week. They'll use phrases like "fighting crime" while doing everything they can to prevent people from actually, you know... FIGHTING CRIME. Any business or institution that can afford to be serious about crime prevention does so by means of security technology and ARMED security personnel. Why, then, do these people believe that the best way to protect an individual from crime is to disarm them? If these people were really serious about "saving" poor urban dwellers from the ravages of crime, they'd repeal their racist, ignorant gun laws and give these unfortunate people a chance to protect themselves, to stop being easy victims. But that would involve true giving. The giving of trust. And what gun-grabbing snob would ever give such a thing to a yucky poor person? "But but but!" they'll continue, "Gun control stops international conflicts that create desperate poverty throughout the world!" But this raises a question for the gun-grabbers. They say that gun ownership causes economic underdevelopment. But the United States has an incredibly vibrant, powerful economy, which developed from scratch over the last three centuries despite our longstanding firearm rights. The United Kingdom's population was similarly armed to their rotten teeth all the way up to the 1920s, and their economy reigned supreme for centuries. How could we have developed into the richest nation on Earth despite our being an armed population? Gun grabbers never think these things through. They're the ones who also insist that America's high (but not as high as you'd think) murder rate is the direct result of gun ownership, but internationally, gun ownership and murder rates don't correlate at all. (See www.gunfacts.info, which has an excellent chapter on international gun control and crime.) What makes certain nations more or less violent than others is not whether or not they are armed, but whether or not they have rights. When you disarm a population, you open the door for the true Angel of Economic Death. Bad government. Without the right to resist, populations generally lose all of their other rights. They lose their right to open discourse, which means innovation, education, and accountability disappear. They lose their right to their property, which means financial security, investment, and incentive go poof. They lose their right to due process, which means they're only an edict away from enjoying a permanent island vacation in the Gulag Archipelago. This is why America, a nation armed to the proverbial teeth, continues to prosper. We have fundamental rights that we jealously defend with our guns. America's murder rate is the result not of gun ownership, but of our own form of bad government. When we outlawed Alcohol shortly after World War I, violent crime surged, only to recede when the depression forced the end of prohibition. Yes, crime actually went DOWN amidst devastating poverty, all because we were able to throw off a little bit of bad government. Now, prohibition has returned in the form of the War on Drugs, which drives crime to staggering heights previously unimagined in our great land. (See Joel Miller's "Bad Trip" http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Trip-Against-Destroying- America/dp/0785261478/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-3142161- 9863856?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182231409&sr=8-2 for all the proof you'll need.) And if you think our particular form of bad government has wrought havoc in our streets, just wait until you see what a truly malevolent dictatorship can do to their population. JPFO's heart-wrenching documentary "Innocents Betrayed" will show you the horrors of government abuse in a way that no printed article ever could. People think that donating their time and money to gun control is a form of giving. But when you disarm someone, you take from them something so precious that all the spare change and expired water chestnuts in the world can't replace. When you disarm someone to "save" them, you take away their ability to actually save themselves. You give them the gift of helplessness, of victimization, of dependency. Instead of giving them your trust, your respect as fellow human beings with rights, you give them your contempt. Giving the gift of gun control isn't giving at all. It's taking. Scratch any disarmer and you'll find a squirming, terrified little tyrant. They don't want gun control to save the world's poor. They want gun control to save themselves FROM the world's poor. This is why Diane Feinstein carries a handgun while threatening to disarm America completely. This is why Steven Spielberg, according to gunrights champion John Milius, owns all manner of "assault weapons" while boldly stating to his friend that "John, gun control is strictly for them." This is a man who brought us a wonderful film about disarmed Jews being slaughtered like lambs, but whose wife is an enthusiastic supporter of Handgun Control Inc. They don't believe guns are bad. They believe people are bad, and guns give people power to do bad things to them. So the next time you want to give charitably, think about supporting gun rights. A bag of beans and rice may feed someone for a week, but a gun can help someone hunt for food, ward off criminals, and protect their freedoms. I'd call that a fine form of giving. You won't save the world, but you may help someone save their own life. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #607 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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