From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #655 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, July 25 2007 Volume 10 : Number 655 In this issue: McGuinty takes aim at guns crossing border [EDITORIAL] Ban handguns before more die [LETTERS] Caught in the crossfire Re: McGuinty takes aim at guns crossing border Harris /Birch c-21 Toronto Sun political cartoon Letter to various papers (just sent) ... Nothings changed with registration Let's hope the PCs use this one [COLUMN] Blowing smoke on gun crime [LETTERS] Toronto Sun, July 24/07 Re: Let's hope the PCs use this one Re: Nothings changed with registration Re: Let's hope the PCs use this one "Liberals thwarting Tory efforts at tackling gun crime..." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:27:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: McGuinty takes aim at guns crossing border http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070724.wgunborder0724/BNStory/National/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20070724.wgunborder0724 McGuinty takes aim at guns crossing border Canadian Press July 24, 2007 at 1:19 PM EDT Guelph, Ont. — Premier Dalton McGuinty says he's interested in negotiating a deal with border states to keep guns from coming into Ontario. Mr. McGuinty says northern border states complain about drugs coming from Ontario, and he says the province is equally worried about guns coming from the south. He says he realizes it's a two-way street and both countries need to do more to fight gun crime. Mr. McGuinty also called on the federal government to do its part and ban handguns. He says it's time for Canada to distinguish itself from the United States and fight gun culture. Mr. McGuinty says the best way to do that is to ban the gangsters' “weapon of choice.” ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:36:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [EDITORIAL] Ban handguns before more die http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/238984 Ban handguns before more die Jul 24, 2007 04:30 AM The senselessness of allowing widespread handgun ownership has never been more clear as Toronto mourns another innocent life lost in the crossfire of gang warfare. Easy-to-conceal pistols are the weapon most commonly wielded by drug dealers and other thugs. And, as events last weekend tragically showed, they seldom hesitate in opening fire with these guns, even in the presence of harmless bystanders. If pistols were made harder for criminals to obtain – if they were less prevalent in society – the bullets that ripped through 11-year-old Ephraim Brown on early Sunday might never have been discharged. That is why Ontario Attorney General Michael Bryant, Toronto Mayor David Miller and others are right to continue to press for a Canada-wide ban on handguns. There is simply no good reason for the average citizen to own a pistol, certainly none that outweighs the devastation such weapons can inflict on innocent lives. Law-abiding people with a practical use for firearms, such as farmers needing to rid their land of varmints, are better-served by a rifle or shotgun than a pistol. They have no need for this class of firearm. Yet about 400,000 Canadians own handguns. These gun owners are inadvertently helping to outfit a criminal army of the streets, which obtains many of its firearms by theft. About 97,000 firearms have been stolen or reported missing in Canada over the past 30 years. Between 2,000 and 3,000 more guns are added to that total each year, with a significant number believed to end up in the hands of gangsters. The other main way criminals obtain firearms is by smuggling them in from sections of the United States where these weapons are easily purchased. Action is needed to squeeze off both cross-border and domestic sources of gang firepower. Canada's police officers and border guards are doing their best to block the flow of firearms. There have been some significant arrests. As well, police are right to continue their efforts to break up gangs and to put more emphasis on community policing in a bid to lower violent crime. Governments must contribute, too, through increased recreational opportunities, mentoring, job training and other services designed to discourage youths from joining criminal gangs. But the most pressing need in this struggle to control violence is a nationwide bad on handguns. Such a ban should be enacted without delay and with few exceptions to the rule. Police officers and the military obviously should still be allowed to carry pistols. And there may be room for a narrow exemption for elite competitive shooters. Everyone else should have to surrender their weapons under a federal buyback program. Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government has not been a supporter of tighter gun control – quite the opposite, it has loosened adherence to the national long-gun registry. That attitude must be reversed if further tragedies, like the slaying of innocent bystanders such as Ephraim Brown on Sunday, are to be avoided. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:39:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [LETTERS] Caught in the crossfire http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/238994 Caught in the crossfire Jul 24, 2007 04:30 AM Re: Gang warfare claims boy, 11, July 23 When are we going to get it? Our silence is complicity. It is a testament to how little we value the lives of our young people. We continue to harbour the thugs and fugitives in our homes and our communities, even as they snuff out a whole generation one bullet at a time. These degenerates will continue to keep us hostage, so long as we keep our mouths shut and keep ducking the bullets. It is not up to the police, the mayor, the premier or the Prime Minister. It is up to us. We know who they are, we break bread with them, they sleep in our beds, we call them brothers and fathers and sons. Yet they are not family any more; they are the disease that is orchestrating genocide and it is time to give them up. If not for an altruistic sense of justice, then out of enlightened self-interest. Self-preservation. For it is not just the lives they take; it is our children's innocence, their hopes and dreams that they are planting in the ground. Dwayne Morgan, Mississauga Bryant to push Ottawa for ban on handguns, July 23 The sister of 11-year-old Ephraim Brown had this to say to gang members: "I just don't understand how many young, innocent lives you guys need to take in order for the community to step up, the community to take charge." However, this challenge must be applied not just to wayward youth in the black community but to Canada as a whole. No matter what gun enthusiasts and collectors say, concealable weapons ensure that there will be woundings or fatalities whenever violence spills over between armed individuals or groups such as gangs. In the U.S., the worst civilian massacre in American history, at Virginia Tech, caused only a tiny blip of almost meaningless legislative change. Thirty-one innocent young lives were clearly not enough to get anyone to step up to the plate. Gun collectors must learn to accept that it no longer makes sense for grown men to collect, in their city homes, functioning, concealable weapons – any more than it would make sense to collect crossbows, deadly toxins like ricin, or explosives. There is an urgent need to reduce the number of weapons available. So please spare us the letters that say, "It's not guns; it's a particular community, it's fatherless and unemployed youth, it's a lack of enough cops on the beat." What we can do now is cut off the supply of those handguns over which we have the most direct control, as well as stepping up our anti-smuggling efforts at the border. In Ontario Attorney General Michael Bryant, Toronto has a man with the courage and conviction on this issue that federal Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day and Justice Minister Rob Nicholson lack. Dr. Ron Charach, Toronto Attorney General Michael Bryant says he would like to "choke off the gun supply from legal gun owners to illegal gun owners." This prompts me to ask: What kind of a country do we live in where innocent citizens are punished because of the actions of criminals? According to Statistics Canada, only 4 per cent of the handguns used in murders between 1997 and 2005 were registered, meaning that most of the guns used in crime came illegally from the U.S.. Does anyone really believe that taking away the property of hundreds of thousands of trustworthy gun owners will stop gang members from using firearms? I think it is frightening that we have politicians who think so. Jeff Gardiner, Wellesley, Ont. When are politicians going to understand that criminals don't obey laws? That's why we call them criminals. This past weekend's shootings were committed by criminals using illegal guns. Passing more laws in an attempt to prevent gun crime will do nothing to stem the illegal use of guns. We need laws that target the perpetrator. Douglas Bailey, Barrie, Ont. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Good show Doug! CFD Moderator- DRGJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:02:20 -0500 From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: McGuinty takes aim at guns crossing border At 06:27 PM 7/24/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070724.wgunborder0724/ BNStory/National/?page=3Drss&id=3DRTGAM.20070724.wgunborder0724 > >McGuinty takes aim at guns crossing border > >Canadian Press >July 24, 2007 at 1:19 PM EDT > >Guelph, Ont. Premier Dalton McGuinty says he's >interested in negotiating a deal with border states to >keep guns from coming into Ontario. > >Mr. McGuinty says northern border states complain >about drugs coming from Ontario, and he says the >province is equally worried about guns coming from the >south. > >He says he realizes it's a two-way street and both >countries need to do more to fight gun crime. > >Mr. McGuinty also called on the federal government to >do its part and ban handguns. > >He says it's time for Canada to distinguish itself >from the United States and fight gun culture. > >Mr. McGuinty says the best way to do that is to ban >the gangsters' =93weapon of choice.=94 Mr. McGuinty does not seem to realize that it is the same criminals who are exporting the drugs into the U.S.A. as are importing the "illegal guns" into Canada. If Mr. McGuinty would figure out a way to incarcerate these miscreants who are dealing in drugs and guns, it just might eliminate the gun crime problem in Canada. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:02:12 -0400 From: "Maurice Curtis" Subject: Harris /Birch c-21 Dear Mr Harris: I have attached below a copy of the letter you sent to Todd Birch. Of course when I first read this letter I thought it was intended to be a joke; but alas, not so! Your letter certainly indicates you and your CP cohorts are not wasting any brain matter on real solutions. Please advise me when a criminal applies for his first time firearms license. Inquiring minds will want to know! Sincerely: Maurice Curtis ,Delta, Ontario K0E 1G0 Subject: RE: Bill C-21 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:02:56 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Toronto Sun political cartoon I hope all saw Today's (2007 07 24) political cartoon in the Sun chain, including our London Free Press. A pistol with the image of four youthful figures on the left side of the grip. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:30:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to various papers (just sent) ... Rick, right you are, it is time to call a spade a spade ... Gun bans and the death of innocents ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, Toronto Mayor Miller, Ontario Attorney General Michael Bryant, Safety Minister Monte Kwinter, and Premier Dalton McGuinty will look you right in the eye and tell you with a straight face that the reason for the violence in the streets of Toronto is because the Federal Conservatives refuse the ban the handguns of law abiding citizens. The truth is simpler than that, and not entirely to the liking of the men who should be addressing the violence, but are not. If Miller, McGuinty, Bryant or Kwinter had any desire whatsoever to address the violence which continues to take young innocent lives, then we would have seen changes already in the justice system, and yet we have not. It seems that our so called "leaders" have been unable to fathom the old adage "lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way", and now they are just impeding progress. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:25:54 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Nothings changed with registration From an old Digest: (June 11, 2007): It was said: >> Just a few weeks ago, the government posted a notice on the Canada >> Gazette, extending an amnesty period for long-gun owners to register > their firearms for another year. > > >This means absolutely nothing because when you buy a gun retail it is >automatically registered in your name by the retailer. > > I can report via very recent, direct experience that the procedure hasn't changed a whit. The selling dealer calls Miramichi, provides info on what firearm is being traded, what firearm is being purchased, provides the buyers PAL No., etc. and the buyer has little than enough time to have a previously mounted scope installed - and is cleared by the most efficient folks in NB. You'll then be 'fingered' by three mailings, one from the GRC (actually Miramichi) and two from the CFC - Miramichi and in barely a week you'll be in possession of your reg. certif. My MP can't explain why our New Government still insists on this procedure bare fit of a single, let alone three, 'plain brown envelopes'. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:51:58 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Let's hope the PCs use this one Good one 10X; I've sent it on to John Tory. >Put those who have proven to be violent criminals in Jail untill they [can prove that they] have been rehabilitated. > >"The finger that is in jail can NOT pull a trigger." > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:13:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [COLUMN] Blowing smoke on gun crime Blowing smoke on gun crime In calling for a handgun ban, again, David Miller and Michael Bryant aren't doing their jobs By LORRIE GOLDSTEIN Tue, July 24, 2007 Memo to Mayor David Miller and Attorney-General Michael Bryant. If the best you can do in the wake of another fatal shooting of an innocent child -- part of a weekend of deadly gun violence in Toronto -- is to call for a federal handgun ban, again, do us all a favour. Save your breath and our time, because we've heard it all before. Do you think people don't know what a predictable attempt at misdirection this is? Do you think they don't realize that the first thing politicians do when faced with a crisis is to blame another level of government -- in this case, Ottawa? The feds -- both previous Liberal and Conservative governments -- have plenty to answer for when it comes to our lax criminal justice system. But if you're going to contribute meaningfully to fighting gang and gun violence in Toronto, we don't need to hear, again, what you two think the feds should do. We heard it from you during the 2006 federal election when another child, Jane Creba, 15, was gunned down while shopping with her family on Boxing Day on Yonge St. We don't need to hear it again now that Ephraim Brown, 11, has been murdered because he, too, was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. We get it. Unlike federal Conservative politicians, Bryant, a provincial Liberal, and Miller, a municipal mayor who used to be an NDPer, think a handgun ban will reduce gun crime. Fine. Point made. Move on. Stop telling us what the feds should do. Tell us what you're doing. For Miller, this means ending the fear-mongering "apres moi, le deluge" rhetoric he's been indulging in ever since he couldn't get his two pet tax hikes approved by city council. Stop your temper tantrum, mayor. Start explaining how you will lead us against this scourge, which has left three more people dead from gunfire compared to this time in 2005, the year of Toronto's infamous "summer of the gun." HYSTERICAL RANTING Calling for a handgun ban isn't going to make people forget that last week you were talking about cutting the police budget as part of your hysterical ranting about all the terrible things that will happen if we don't do things your way when it comes to raising taxes. C'mon. Calm down. Focus. The last time we were faced with gang and gun mayhem you and council -- even if you had to be dragged into it -- did the right thing by hiring 250 more cops and redeploying 200 more officers onto our streets. That added manpower -- and subsequent gang busts -- worked in reducing gun violence. You need to sit down with Police Chief Bill Blair and discuss whether the police have adequate resources to do the job now. Was last weekend's mayhem a tragic but random blip from the trend showing gun violence has been dropping since 2005, or is this the start of a renewed escalation of gang warfare? That's what you have to decide. That's what we pay you for. We don't pay you to run around like Chicken Little when you don't get your way. You control the police budget and the political support the police receive in doing their job. That's your job. Do it. If you need more of our hard-earned tax money for the police budget (or any budget) make your case to us -- rationally. As for Bryant, stop your pointless calls, in the middle of a provincial election campaign, for a handgun ban. Start dealing with the issues you control, such as providing municipalities with adequate policing. CABINET PRESSURE? To your credit, in part, the province did free up some money for this following the summer of the gun. But how hard have you been fighting since then at the cabinet table to ensure that Toronto and other cities have enough resources to fight this scourge? Have you made it clear to Crowns that plea bargains and easy bail are unacceptable for these crimes? Have you provided them with the resources to be able to make a convincing argument for this before judges? Finally, if the be-all and end-all for Bryant and Miller on gun crime really is a federal ban on handguns, let them run for a seat in the House of Commons -- not Queen's Park and City Hall. In other words, put up or shut up. • You can e-mail Lorrie Goldstein at lorrie.goldstein@sunmedia.ca • Have a letter for the editor? E-mail it to torsun.editor@sunmedia.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:15:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [LETTERS] Toronto Sun, July 24/07 http://www.torontosun.com/Comment/Letters/2007/07/24/4363846.html Finally, a solution David Miller says "ban handguns." Yeah, that's it! Nobody will use a handgun because they are "banned." All this time and the solution was right in front of us. John Hawes Brampton (Nice shot) The one-note song Here we go again. Another violent weekend in the city and right on cue the calls for handgun bans come out ("Mayor cries out for handgun ban," July 23). Don't our politicians have anything more credible to say about this? Criminals quite obviously do not care about any sort of law that would govern the behaviour of a citizen, and this is of course what makes them criminals. Attorney General Michael Bryant must think Canadians are generally morons, because his one-note song continues to be "ban handguns." He wants to take legally-owned property from honest citizens and this is supposed to make us all safer? Are Canadians really collectively that stupid? Does everyone not realize that weapons of all types can be and are easily smuggled into this country all the time? For the record, Michael and Mayor Miller: Cocaine is illegal, heroine is illegal, murder is illegal -- see the pattern here? How about a sensible enforcement-based approach for a change, rather than a knee-jerk political sound bite? R. Elliott Burlington (What about the good old days when fights were solved with fists and no innocent bystanders were killed for sitting on a fence) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 22:58:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: Let's hope the PCs use this one That will be a racial profiling... Lee Jasper wrote: Good one 10X; I've sent it on to John Tory. >Put those who have proven to be violent criminals in Jail untill they [can prove that they] have been rehabilitated. > >"The finger that is in jail can NOT pull a trigger." > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:51:23 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Nothings changed with registration - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Jasper" To: "' Can Firearms Digest'" Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 11:25 PM Subject: Nothings changed with registration > From an old Digest: (June 11, 2007): > > It was said: > >>> Just a few weeks ago, the government posted a notice on the Canada >>> Gazette, extending an amnesty period for long-gun owners to register > > their firearms for another year. >> >> >>This means absolutely nothing because when you buy a gun retail it is >>automatically registered in your name by the retailer. >> >> > > I can report via very recent, direct experience that the procedure > hasn't changed a whit. > Its the same scenario at a gun auction.NOTHING HAS CHANGED ~!ITS ALL SMOKE AND MIRRORS TO PLACATE THE GUN-OWNERS WHOM THEY DONT SEEM TO TO THINK THAT GUN-OWNERS CAN SEE THROUGH THIS PLOY? ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:44:23 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Let's hope the PCs use this one - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vladyslav Strashko" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 1:58 AM Subject: Re: Let's hope the PCs use this one > That will be a racial profiling... > Nothing wrong with THAT~! if its the truth~!! ed/ontario > Lee Jasper wrote: Good one 10X; I've sent it on > to John Tory. > >>Put those who have proven to be violent criminals in Jail untill they > [can prove that they] have been rehabilitated. >> >>"The finger that is in jail can NOT pull a trigger." >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:40:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: "Liberals thwarting Tory efforts at tackling gun crime..." Subject: "Liberals thwarting Tory efforts at tackling gun crime justice minister says" http://www.canadaeast.com/news/article/36635 Liberals thwarting Tory efforts at tackling gun crime justice minister says COLIN PERKEL Published Tuesday July 24th, 2007 TORONTO (CP) - The federal minority Conservative government's efforts to clamp down on the gun violence plaguing some of Canada's big-city streets are being thwarted by the Liberal-dominated Senate, the country's justice minister complained Tuesday. In an interview, Rob Nicholson said keeping people accused of gun crimes behind bars pending trial and raising minimum jail terms for gun-related offences are part of an "extensive" crime agenda that he says is being stymied by Liberal senators. "The Liberals talk out of both sides of their mouth," Nicholson told The Canadian Press from his riding in Niagara Falls, Ont. "They say, when it's to their advantage during elections, that they're tough on crime, but where is the support when we're bringing forward these pieces of legislation?" Despite the opposition, Nicholson said the government would press ahead with its law-and-order agenda, calling the weekend death of an 11-year-old Toronto boy caught in a gang shootout - one of several recent gun killings across Canada - a tragedy. Liberal justice critic Marlene Jennings fired back at Nicholson, saying it was the government itself that previously delayed moving on its own legislation. The result is now a backlog in the Senate, she said. "Not only is he the hypocrite, he thinks he can get away with cheap shots on the basis that most people won't know what the facts are," Jennings said from Ottawa. After some vicious political wrangling, the House of Commons passed Bill C-10, which would increase mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes - in some cases to five years for a first offence. Also passed was Bill C-35, which puts the onus on a suspect charged with gun-related crimes to show why bail should be granted. Normally, the Crown is required to show why an accused should be kept behind bars. The legislation has come under fierce criticism from criminal lawyers, civil libertarians and prisoner advocates, who argue they take away a judge's sentencing discretion, will affect minorities disproportionately, and may exacerbate the problem. While the Liberals previously offered to fast-track Bill C-35, critics complain it infringes on the basic presumption of innocence and say courts deny bail to those who pose a threat. Both bills remain before the Senate. Irvin Waller, director of the Institute for the Prevention of Crime at the University of Ottawa, called the political wrangling moot because the parties largely agree on tougher sentences. "The debate we've seen about minimum penalties for people caught in possession of handguns misses the main point," Waller said. Smart, aggressive policing combined with community mobilization can have "spectacular results," as a successful program in Boston in the mid-1990s showed, he said. Nicholson rejected complaints from Ontario politicians that the federal government has gone soft on crime by loosening the national gun registry. "Cracking down on, or taking guns away from, duck hunters and antique collectors and sports shooters doesn't solve the urban gun-crime problem," he said. Despite statistics that show violent crime on the decline, gunfire has been erupting on city streets with alarming frequency. Last Saturday afternoon, a 37-year-old man was shot and left to die on a residential street in Halifax, while gunfire erupted outside a nightclub in Winnipeg in the early hours of Sunday, leaving four wounded. In Toronto, Jordan Manners, 15, was shot dead at his high school two months ago, while 19-year-old Jose Hierro-Saez was killed last month in a gun fight that erupted while children enjoyed the sunshine in their neighbourhood. Nicholson said in the coming months, the government will get tough on young offenders and implement a "comprehensive" anti-drug strategy, although he offered no details. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #655 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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