From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #664 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, July 27 2007 Volume 10 : Number 664 In this issue: Natives lose to gun problems Re: response of MP Dick Harris Letter to the Editor of the Toronto Star 27 July 2007 Toronto Star: Emotionalism vs logic Another great column on firearms by Lorrie Goldstein Re: drugs Zins Wins Record Eighth Pistol Title- The Shooting Wire My letter to several Ontario newspapers Re: response of MP Dick Harris Alnwick? Not a gun story ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:53:26 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Natives lose to gun problems Toronto Sun; July 27, 2007 Land claims take back seat: Activist Natives lose to gun problems despite public's desire to resolve issues http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2007/07/27/pf-4372318.html It doesn't involve gun crime in downtown Toronto, so native land claim issues get pushed aside, one native activist says. Although a recent survey by Angus Reid shows 71% of Canadians want the government to speed up the native land claims process, Brian Wright-McLeod, cultural liaison officer for the Native Canadian Centre of Toronto, said there doesn't seem to be any political will to get it done. "It's all through legislation. Rather than the gun, it's a quiet issue and people don't recognize it," Wright-McLeod said. POVERTY The survey, which polled 1,040 people online, also found that 64% think the government should do more to deal with poverty in aboriginal communities. Phil Fontaine, national chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said he feels "encouraged" to see high numbers in support for First Nations rights. He added the recent National Day of Action was about educating and reaching out to Canadians, and he wants to see more of their message spread. "We've known that Canadians were more aware of First Nations poverty and the reasons behind the conditions, and they won't accept it," Fontaine said. "Canadians in effect are saying this is a problem, let's fix it and the country has the ability to do something about this." The poll also showed Canadians are split on Canada's decision to reject the United Nations' declaration to protect indigenous rights in 2006. REJECTED The survey found 29% were in favour, 29% opposed and 42% were unsure how to answer. Officials rejected the declaration, finding it conflicts with the Constitution and Charter of Rights and Freedoms. "What the 42% means to me is the lack of association through the government and education system," Wright-McLeod said. "Native issues, culture, history is not taught in school. The less information people have on a subject, the less they have to say about it." Amnesty International also polled people on this topic last year, but asked the question differently. Their survey found 72% of Canadians agreed Canada should back the declaration, despite criticism or change they may face. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:11:54 -0500 From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: response of MP Dick Harris At 04:40 PM 7/26/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >The quick response to Maurice Curtis from MP Dick Harris on the email I >received from him shows how much he was caught with his parliamentary pants >down. I had to wait weeks and I've yet to hear back from him on my reply. > >He either had an aide respond to my letter with the ususal political >bafflegab or he thought he could feed us that crap and get away with it. Now >he knows better and that people are actually able to discern political bull >shit from reality. > >In the unlikely event that the CPC scraps the Registry, they still will have >the unsolved problem of our revolving door criminal justice system. Of >course, this will hinge on the good will and support of the Opposition >parties who depend on the ethnic immigrant vote, with the predictable >outcome - stalemate. Sadly it is not the registry that is a danger to firearms owners in Canada. It is sections 91 and 92 as ammended by C68 to outlaw the possession of firearms in Canada. Couple this with the fact that the Minister in charge of the firearms act can change the rules to get a firearms license and the fees for that license and it may well be impossible for future generations to meet those rules and fees. Consider the License and the Mandatory Canadian Firearms Safety Course a gateway to licensing. That gateway is damned narrow and very little of it has too do with reducing crime or increasing public safety. But it does filter out a number of folks who would buy a gun on a whim for an afternoon of target shooting, or a day at the trap range. Getting rid of the gun registry will be a hollow victory if sections 91 and 92 of the criminal code remain in place. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:38:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark L Horstead Subject: Letter to the Editor of the Toronto Star 27 July 2007 To: Toronto Star There have been many editorials and letters demanding a handgun ban as pimped by the usual style-over-substance crowd headed by Bryant and Miller, but I'm going to address just one: the letter by Sylvia Putz of 26 July 2007. To her, "The presence of handguns in our society, with the exception of police and the military, makes no sense" and therefore those possessed by honest citizens, ie the millions of Canadians who do not shoot up their neighbourhoods, should be taken away by the Millers and Bryants. As a member of one of her "approved" groups, I thoroughly disagree. To somebody willing to do some impartial and dispassionate research, it is such bans that truly make no sense, not handgun ownership. Contrary to popular misconception, such simplistic measures are worse than useless. While some like to claim a correlation between high US murder rates and supposedly "lax" US gun laws (another popular misconception), murder rates and firearms laws vary considerably between jurisdictions within the US. The states that impose the fewest restrictions on ownership by law-abiding private citizens enjoy the lowest murder and violent crime rates, which are frequently lower than Canadian rates. Those jurisdictions that impose the greatest restrictions are the major cities, which actually have significantly and disproportionally higher murder and other violent crime rates. Coincidentally, those jurisdictions also contain larger numbers of disaffected, alienated, and unemployed young males prone to gang activity and drug problems. That is what fuels violent crime, not access to firearms by law-abiding citizens. That is what is happening in Toronto. It just has not got to the level seen in major US cities. Yet. That is what needs to be addressed, and sooner rather than later. She says that "Handguns should be virtually impossible to obtain", and they are, by honest folk. Criminals have no such difficulty, however, and a ban will not cause them any problem at all. A ban will leave handguns in the possession of three groups: the police and military - and violent criminals who will be completely unaffected. If Mrs Putz, or anybody else, wishes to bring an "increasing number of grieving families" into the argument, she should talk to those whose children have drowned in backyard swimming pools and bathtubs. Far more children die in those than through the abuse of firearms. "We don't need them, and the cost of having them around is far too high" is far more appropriate to backyard pools, yet they are considered normal and the risks, no matter how much higher, are acceptable. There are no screaming headlines every time a child succumbs to one. So go ahead: ignore the guilty and the proven threats, and punish the innocent and harmless. Take the guns away from the millions of hardworking, taxpaying, upstanding Canadian doctors, dentists, lawyers, firefighters, construction workers, bus drivers, teachers, shopkeepers, factory workers, secretaries, farmers, fathers, mothers, and neighbours who are not and never will be a threat. Who will the Putzes blame then when the next child is shot? There won't be any scapegoats left. Maybe, finally, they'll point the finger at stupid, cowardly, lazy grandstanding politicians who consistently fail to deal with the roots of the problems and the thugs doing the killing. Maybe, finally, they'll force them to justify their salaries and do something concrete. By then, however, violent crime will have increased further as time wasted on idiotic bans will have delayed real solutions. Mark L Horstead Newmarket, Ontario *Edited for your security. CFD Moderator- DRGJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:43:48 -0400 From: "Barry Glasgow" Subject: Toronto Star: Emotionalism vs logic To: jtraver@thestar.ca Cc: ON Toronto Star lettertoed@thestar.ca Subject: Emotionalism vs logic How does the way anyone FEELS about the death of an 11-year-old matter in a logical debate about crime control? You know you're pretty much screwed when you need to resort to that sort of emotional blackmail. I already corrected your editorial (see below) on its deceptive use of statistics to make this asinine point. So that's two levels of deception - you leftists must be really running out of arguments. I'll let you in on some more statistics (apparently Star journalists' investigative skills only go so far). British gun crime has more than doubled since they banned handguns a decade ago. FOUR THOUSAND people have suffered shooting injuries in a single year as gun crime continues to rise across Britain. Figures released by the Home Office show that 81 people were shot dead and more than 500 were seriously wounded between April 2002 and March 2003. Is all this "human factor" enough for you? And guess what? Like Toronto, it's all gang-related. All this on a "gun free" island nation thousands of miles away from the US so you can't blame the yanks for that, can you? A side effect to Britain's civilian disarmament policy is that home invasion robberies in the UK are three times that of the US. You admit that banning legally owned handguns "won't solve the problem" but you're willing to do it anyway - before any of the things that would solve it. How magnanimous of you! Tell you what, pay me the thousands I've got invested in handguns to compensate my surrendering them and I MAY consider it - for about 2 seconds, before telling you to take a flying leap off the CN Tower. ====================== Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ontario PS: Don't expect people to be polite when you use deception to play fast and loose with their personal property and their rights. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, July 27, 2007 9:34 am From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Another great column on firearms by Lorrie Goldstein Please be advised that a second column by Lorrie Goldstein on firearms regulation appeared in the Sun newspapers on Thursday, July 26. We have posted it on our web site at; http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/2007/868.htm Please feel free to look at other items of interest on the web site as well. Regards, Brant Scott Parliamentary Assistant c/o Garry Breitkreuz, MP House of Commons Room 685, Confederation Building Ottawa ON K1A 0A6 Phone: (613) 992-4394 Fax: (613) 992-8676 E-MAIL: breitg0@parl.gc.ca www.garrybreitkreuz.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:03:36 -0600 From: Bill Farion Subject: Re: drugs Hi; About 5 years ago the Economist reported that about 350 metric tonnes of cocane came into N. America from Columbia. That is about 3 Tacoma sized pickup loads a day. This year the Economist reported that Afghanistan would ship about 6,100 tonnes of opium. If they can ship drugs by the tonne, what's chucking a few guns into the pot gonna cost. Nothing. Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:06:03 -0600 From: Dave Jordan Subject: Zins Wins Record Eighth Pistol Title- The Shooting Wire The Shooting Wire for Friday, July 27 The Shooting Wire: info@theoutdoorwire.com FEATURE Zins Wins Record Eighth Pistol Title Image Brian Zins at his shooting station Brian Zins Wins NRA 2007 National Pistol Championship at Camp Perry for Eighth Time Fairfax, Virginia - Gunnery Sergeant Brian Zins of Quantico, Virginia, claimed his eighth national championship title - a record for any pistol shooter - at the NRA National Pistol Championships held July 7-14 at Camp Perry, Ohio. With wind gusts exceeding 30 mph on the final day, Zins outscored his competition with an aggregate of 2640-115X to ensure his place in history. (Pistol shooting legends like Harry Reeves, Huelet Benner, and Bill Blankenship each had six individual championship wins.) Zins was also the recipient of the regular service champion award. "After coming in second last year by only a few points, I came out to win my title back this year," Zins said. "I have to admit that it is really nice to have won during the centennial celebration of the National Matches at Camp Perry." In his third appearance at the NRA National Matches, Lieutenant Philip Hemphill of Clinton, Mississippi, found himself neck-and-neck with Zins going into the .45 Championships. In the end, the wind took its toll on Hemphill, leaving him with an overall score of 2625-118X for the silver medal. Hemphill also received the police champion title, making him the only individual to ever hold the NRA National Police Championship and NRA Police Champion titles in the same year. Third place was taken by Steve Reiter of Tucson, Arizona, a familiar face at the awards stand, with a score of 2621-106X. Reiter was also named the civilian and senior champion. Kimberly Hobart of New Philadelphia, Ohio, held off her competition to take both the woman and high civilian woman champion titles with an aggregate score of 2535-76X. Earning his third junior champion title in five years, Antone Silva of Merced, California, fired a score of 2521-66X. "I felt privileged to go up on stage and be the first person to receive the U.S. Brigantine Niagra Trophy," Silva said of his win. John Gunn of Runnemede, New Jersey, took home the collegiate champion title after he fired a 2466-57X. In the service category, Sergeant First Class Steve Swisher of McCook, Nebraska, took home the National Guard champion title with his aggregate score of 2550-76X. After making the long trip from Kailua, Hawaii, Sergeant First Class Robert Mango won the Army Reserve champion title with a 2567-75X. Colonel Mark Hays of Edmond, Oklahoma, took home the high regular Air Force champion title with his score of 2521-78X. The Springfield/Nashville Matchmasters Blue Team took the pistol team aggregate championship title by a small margin over their competitors with a score of 3400-114X. The team was comprised of members Steve Reiter, Patrolman George Kasat, David Lange, Corporal Kevin Vacura, and James Lendardson. The team was coached by Roger Willis and captained by Reiter. Second place in the team competition went to Team Ultradot with a score of 3396-97X. Team members were Jerry Chaney, Ron Steinbrecher, Richard Kang, Lawrence Carter, and Gregory Derr. The team did not have an assigned coach but was captained by Steinbrecher. The U.S. Army Blue Team came in third with an aggregate of 3376-96X. Team members were Staff Sergeants Robert Park, Adam Sokolowski, James Henderson, and Gregory Wilson. The team was coached by Sean Watson and captained by Jason St. John. The NRA National Pistol Championship aggregate is comprised of each competitor's total score fired in the .22 caliber, centerfire, and .45 caliber championship matches. Each of these matches is comprised of 90 rounds - 30 rounds slow fire at 50 yards, 30 rounds timed fire at 25 yards, and 30 rounds rapid fire at 25 yards. In the Distinguished Revolver Match, Officer Greg Abraham of Lake Crystal, Minnesota, scored a 279-6X for the gold medal. Following in second place by just 4 Xs was Paul Bertrand of Tifton, Georgia, with a score of 279-2X. Winning third place was Lindell Schmittler of Seabeck, Washington, with a close 276-6X. Brian Keyser of Birdsboro, Pennsylvania, outscored his competitors by a very small margin in the Harry Reeves Memorial Revolver Match with a 278-6X. Keith Hanzel of Fredericksburg, Virginia, came in a close second with a 278-3X, and Michael Milen of Orland Park, Illinois, finished third with a score of 277-5X. The Made in America match is a 2700 aggregate with a .22 caliber pistol and is open to juniors under the age of 17. Participants must use a .22 caliber pistol manufactured in the United States of America, and the pistol must be chambered for .22 caliber long rifle cartridges. Competitors may only use open iron sights. This year's match title went to Ethan Arten of Laurium, Michigan, with his score of 2106-22X. This year's Mayleigh Cup Team was made up of members Brian Zins, Steve Reiter, Eric Daniels, John Zurek, Ken Saunders, Robert Park, Jason Hedrick, James Henderson, Jerry Chaney, and Larry Clark. Together the team fired an aggregate score of 2630 for the United States. The Mayleigh Cup International Postal Team Match course of fire is comprised of 30 shots in slow fire from a distance of 50 meters. Team members are selected based on their performance in the .22 Caliber Slow Fire Match and the .22 Caliber National Match Course. Frank Wukovits acted as team captain, while Chuck Wheeler was the team adjutant and Leslie Dutton was the official witness. The NRA/USA Civilian Pistol Team International Postal Team Match was fired by team members Cecil Rhodes, Chris Johnson, Randy Erickson, Harvie Loomis, Donald Kling, Paul Porter, Richard Kang, Paul Noles, Judy Tant, and Gary Spear. Together the team fired an aggregate of 5569. Team members are the top ten shooters from the previous year's NRA/USA Civilian Pistol Team match in attendance. Participants fire the ISSF standard pistol course of fire from 25 meters using .22 caliber pistols with any sights. Frank Wukovits acted as team captain, while Chuck Wheeler was the team adjutant and Leslie Dutton was the official witness. The National Matches are conducted by NRA and CMP every summer beginning in July and running approximately five weeks. Participants range in experience levels from novices to Olympic caliber shooters, and include civilians, military personnel, and law enforcement officers. The NRA National Rifle & Pistol Championships are open to all persons who are members of NRA. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:35:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to several Ontario newspapers Just submitted, not yet printed. WRITE A LETTER, DAMMIT! - --- Bruce Mills wrote: > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:24:22 -0400 (EDT) > From: Bruce Mills > Subject: Chicago Gun Control > To: letters@GlobeAndMail.ca > CC: Micheal Bryant > > Is there no end to the anti-gun propaganda and lies > that Attorney-General Michael Bryant is willing to > spew? His latest pile of nonsense is his comment > comparing Toronto to Chicago. His claims that the > reason that Chicago has "10 times the annual gun > killings" is because they have "no gun control" is > absolutely and utterly false. > > The State of Illinois and Chicago have some of the > most stringent and draconian anti-gun laws in the > United States. Since 1968, every gun owner in > Illinois must have a Firearms Owners Identification > card to buy guns or ammunition. There is also a > State-wide 24 hour waiting period for long guns, and > a > 72 hour waiting period for handguns. Concealed > Carry > is not permitted. > > Chicago, itself, has since 1968 instituted the > registration of all guns. Since 1982, it passed an > ordinance prohibiting the further sale and > registration of handguns. Several of Chicago's > suburban areas have banned the possession of > handguns, > outright. Of course, who couldn't fail to > appreciate > Chicago Mayor Richard Daley's position on gun > ownership: "If it was up to me, no one but law > enforcement officers would own hand guns"... > > This is a far cry from "no gun control"! Either > Bryant is too stupid for words, or he is > deliberately > trying to deceive the people of Ontario. It is > obvious that he and his cronies don't deserve to > govern our Province. We need to ban Liberals, not > guns! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:50:06 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: response of MP Dick Harris On 2007 Jul 27, at 7:11 AM, 10x wrote: > > Sadly it is not the registry that is a danger to firearms owners in > Canada. > It is sections 91 and 92 as ammended by C68 to outlaw the possession of > firearms in Canada. Couple this with the fact that the Minister in > charge > of the firearms act can change the rules to get a firearms license and > the > fees for that license and it may well be impossible for future > generations > to meet those rules and fees. > > Consider the License and the Mandatory Canadian Firearms Safety Course > a > gateway to licensing. That gateway is damned narrow and very little > of it > has too do with reducing crime or increasing public safety. ... . > Getting rid of the gun registry will be a hollow victory if sections > 91 and > 92 of the criminal code remain in place. Thanks for this constant reminder of the real problem we face - licensing. Sincerely, Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:57:17 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Alnwick? Not a gun story >> Where's Alnwick ? I know Haldimand pretty good but never heard of Alnwick. Here you go! > Welcome to Northumberland - a thriving, south-eastern Ontario > community strategically positioned along Highway 401 to access both > Toronto and Kingston within a 1 to 1.5 hours drive. Northumberland > County offers a range of living experiences from historic towns to > scenic rolling rural areas to spectacular water settings on Rice Lake, > the Trent River and Lake Ontario. The Corporation of the County of > Northumberland is the upper tier level of municipal government that > weaves together seven diverse, yet complementary municipalities. > > <> > The seven Municipalities include: > > * Municipality of Alnwick/Haldimand > * Municipality of Brighton > * Town of Cobourg > * Township of Cramahe > * Township of Hamilton > * Municipality of Port Hope > * Municipality of Trent Hills > Welcome to Alnwick/Haldimand. There's two Haldimands!! > Welcome to our shining waters, rolling hills and beckoning steeples. > Our township stretches from Rice Lake across the Oak Ridges Moraine to > Lake Ontario. Come for year-round sports, recreation, diversion and > relaxation... boating, fishing, cottages and resorts on Rice Lake, as > well as the renowned Roseneath Carousel. > I'd be interested in the: > Roseneath Carousel Except Squinty and Mike will probably get it banned too. (Is it one of those rowdy places where one could go for a bash, carouse and get carted off like the Staal bros. - Why in heck wouldn't they do their drinkin at home in Thunder Bay, like our Joe Thornton did in St. Thomas, so as to get a 'friendly nod' from the Constabulary)? Speaking of the men and women in Black (I love blue) I have just connected the dots on a local matter. The recently parachuted-in CO of our local OPP detach. is a former CFO staffer in Orillia. Chap was foisted, uninvited, because our detach had reached a point were an Inspector is required rather than a lowly Staff. Sgt. So our beloved Staff Sgt. has been banished and local municipal politicians have talked about *reducing* the complement so our beloved Staff. Sgt. can be returned to Command and the incumbent sent back to the recycle bin. What'd Fantino expect, sending this dude into S/W Ont Reform country. I wonder how many of my alt cert Buds were turned down by this chap? And there's probably underground gun owners, or their spouses, on the various municipal councils. We're a hot bed of gun clubs in Central Elgin, Malahide and Bayham, AOBs and just plain Rednecks. Heck I know folk who spread that black powder stuff on their Corn Flakes every morn. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #664 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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