From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #668 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, July 29 2007 Volume 10 : Number 668 In this issue: Fantino vows to rid province of illegal guns Police hunt for at least three armed robbery suspects [LETTERS] National Post, July 28/07 [LETTERS] Windsor Star, July 28/07 [COLUMN] End the blather [US] Soda-wielding burglar shot [LETTERS] Owen Sound Sun-Times, July 28/07 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 01:47:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Fantino vows to rid province of illegal guns http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/toronto/story.html?id=1f63e8d9-0b94-4974-9076-43b333c98d48 Fantino vows to rid province of illegal guns Queen's Park Gives $26M To Hire 200 More Officers Shannon Kari, National Post Published: Saturday, July 28, 2007 OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino promised not to rest until he rids the province of illegal handguns, suggesting there are hundreds if not thousands of illegal weapons in the province in the hands of people who have no regard for anyone's life, including their own. "I refer to these people as brain-dead killers awash in a fantasy world in which the gun represents the mere extension of their anti-social DNA," Commissioner Fantino said as he welcomed new provincial funding yesterday to hire 200 officers. "We won't stop until every last gun is off the streets of Ontario communities," he pledged. The additional $26-million from the provincial government will help the OPP co-ordinate with other law enforcement agencies to dismantle "gun distribution networks," Commissioner Fantino said as about 50 OPP officers looked on and applauded the speech at the OPP detachment just off Highway 401 at Keele Street. The former Toronto police chief suggested the $26-million addition to the OPP's $790-million annual operating budget will enable the force to reduce smuggling of illegal handguns across the border. "This is a great move forward in helping fulfill our mandate," Mr. Fantino said. Much of the gun crime in the province has taken place in the Greater Toronto Area and other centres where the OPP is not the local police force. But Commissioner Fantino bristled at any suggestion the funding should go instead to municipal police departments. "We are going to elevate our support to municipalities," said Commissioner Fantino. "We have a provincial mandate that transcends municipal borders," he added. Premier Dalton McGuinty and Attorney-General Michael Bryant both suggested the additional money will provide tangible results. "More resources on the front lines is in the interest of Ontario families," the Premier said. Mr. Bryant repeated his criticism of the federal government for refusing to ban handguns. Federal Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day said this week that a ban on handguns would not reduce a crime. Melissa Leclerc, a spokeswoman for the Minister, said handguns are "extremely tightly controlled" and are effectively banned. There are 588,000 registered handguns in Canada. Ms. Leclerc said that only one-tenth of 1% of them have been reported lost or stolen. skari@nationalpost.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 01:48:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Police hunt for at least three armed robbery suspects http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/toronto/story.html?id=440453e5-4294-4ddc-9f34-566f6bcc180c Police hunt for at least three armed robbery suspects closes down city's north end National Post Published: Saturday, July 28, 2007 A police hunt for at least three armed robbery suspects closed a swath of the city's north end yesterday after shots were fired at a minivan. Jane Street near Lawrence Avenue West and all Black Creek Drive exits from Highways 400 and 401 were cordoned off around 5 p.m. A fourth suspect, 25, was shot in the leg and taken to Humber River Regional hospital. He is expected to survive. Police would not elaborate why the suspects were being sought but reports indicate the suspects were involved in the robbery of a video store at a nearby strip mall. The Special Investigations Unit has taken over. The SIU examines circumstances involving police in which someone was seriously injured. The Emergency Task Force, canine unit and a York Regional Police helicopter were also involved in the search. Katie Rook, National Post ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 01:54:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [LETTERS] National Post, July 28/07 http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/editorialsletters/story.html?id=941a29cc-fcca-4cd3-8cdf-ad3923a71988 Guns, gangs and the government National Post Published: Saturday, July 28, 2007 When I was young, I was fascinated by firearms and their portrayal on TV. Here were these really cool toys that all the adults used. Cowboys and Indians, Cops and Robbers, Axis versus Allies -- we played whatever version was popular at the time. But as I grew up, I was taught about the reality and responsibility of firearms and their use. Safety and respect were paramount. Why is it then that parents won't teach their children about safety and respect for firearms? If you say that guns are a bad thing, then you have only increased the appeal for most youth. Rather than vilify firearms, how about teaching kids to respect them as a tool and teach them safety in schools? Teach them to respect the object, not as a cool toy, but as a tool which, if unsafely used, can have consequences. Why is it so hard for people to teach that to their children? Mike Duynhoven, Kitchener, Ont. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/editorialsletters/story.html?id=4a8e43ca-8e69-42a9-9651-97f77429a176 Guns, gangs and the government National Post Published: Saturday, July 28, 2007 Canada's New Government fully recognizes that there are root causes of youth crime, including involvement with gangs, which cannot be ignored. This government recognizes and supports a preventative justice approach in dealing with youth, including supporting community-based, constructive alternatives aimed at preventing their involvement in these crimes and gang-related activity. That is why in January, my colleague, Stockwell Day, announced $16.1-million in funding to help communities prevent youth crime, aimed at tackling anti-gang initiatives at the community level. In addition, this government is committed to collaborating with stakeholders to address youth crime, including working with provincial child welfare services and justice systems. As Minister of Justice I am driving a legislative agenda that will give law enforcement the tools they need to battle gangs by cutting off their flow of guns, drugs and money, and by prosecuting gang members. Our approach is meant to be tough. At the same time, it's balanced. We respect the rights of the accused but do not allow their rights to take precedence over community safety. By breaking the back of the culture of guns, gangs and drugs, we are sending the message to youth and to all Canadians that we won't tolerate threats to our streets and communities. Rob Nicholson, Minister of Justice and Attorney-General of Canada, Ottawa. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/editorialsletters/story.html?id=e6abd5a7-a5d8-4c94-afd1-c6d5603798b7 Guns, gangs and the government National Post Published: Saturday, July 28, 2007 Re: Accused In Brown Case Freed In 2005 Shooting, July 25. Let me see if I have this straight: Toronto police arrest three suspects in the murder of little Ephraim Brown and, lo and behold, it turns out one of them was arrested a couple of years ago in the shooting of a four-year-old. Predictably, the Mayor of Toronto and Ontario's Attorney-General blame the handgun used to commit the murder. More specifically, they blame target shooters and firearms collectors for allowing these thugs to break into their homes and steal their target pistols, so they can murder people with them. What is wrong with this picture? The few target shooters who have their homes broken into and ransacked are also victims of crime. Of course, some would argue that they deserve it bec ause they ownhandguns, clearly lethal weapons of mass destruction akin to atomic bombs and suitable only for murder. The real crime committed here is called murder. Murder has been around a long time -- longer than handguns -- and laws against it date back to the original 10. Most societies have found better ways to deal with it than a stern lecture and early release. The truth is, Canadians have lost the moral courage needed to deal with the human garbage that commits indiscriminate violence against the innocent. We have become a nation of wimps. Tony Bernardo, Oshawa, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 01:59:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [LETTERS] Windsor Star, July 28/07 http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/letters/story.html?id=e2449c1e-bd7c-4396-b36b-ffb7b9f706d9 Calls for a handgun ban posturing to electorate Letter Published: Saturday, July 28, 2007 Congratulations on the editorial pointing out the folly of a handgun ban. Reference to the ineffective bans on illicit drugs and alcohol prohibition in 1920's U.S. are rational and cogent arguments that the irrational and self-serving calls by Mayor Miller and Attorney General Bryant are merely posturing to the electorate and are exploiting the most recent tragic death of the 11-year-old in Toronto. Miller's disgusting political opportunism is further evidenced by his lack of outrage at the recent knife killings in his city. The victims are just as dead, but even Miller understands that calling for a ban on knives would make his illogical rhetoric appear even more ridiculous. JIM HENKEL London, Ont. http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/letters/story.html?id=e4883fdc-5e2e-4ebb-82bf-cf537c36a24a Time to find another method for fighting crime Letter Published: Saturday, July 28, 2007 Just want to say that I was pleasantly surprised by your well-balanced editorial : Rhetoric Over Real Security. Over the last decade, the federal government has probably wasted more than $2 billion on various schemes of firearm registration, ban and confiscation. Yet, just as many Canadians as ever are being killed, assaulted and mugged. Isn't it time we try another approach to fighting crime? How about we go after the criminals instead of some of their tools? Ignoring the source of the problem will not make it go away. MICHEL TRAHAN Verdun, QC http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/letters/story.html?id=4bb794da-06ee-4525-9a38-6bb9980715dc Handgun ban editorial praised by reader Letter Published: Saturday, July 28, 2007 The editorial piece on a handgun ban was spot on. It is very refreshing to hear not only common sense but the opportunism shown by politicians in this whole arena. It is getting very hard to find common sense and honesty in print media. Most seem to want to jump on bandwagons. Very good work. BRIAN ELSON Edmonton, Alta. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 02:01:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [COLUMN] End the blather http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Coren_Michael/2007/07/28/4374738.html End the blather By MICHAEL COREN Sat, July 28, 2007 Another murder in a Canadian black community, this time the victim being 11-years old. And it took only moments for white liberal politicians to blame law-abiding handgun owners and, yes, the United States of America. Handguns have to be banned, they cried, and American gun laws are too soft. This has to be a first. Canadian leftists blaming a murder in Toronto on President George W. Bush. Orders of Canada and CBC T-shirts all round. Such drivel does not, however, explain how Norway, with one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world, manages to have one of the lowest crime rates. Or how Israel, a society where guns are extraordinarily common, has so few criminal shootings. Or how Britain with some of the most stringent gun control laws in the world has a violent crime rate that is virtually out of control. It's too late to play silly games any more. If handguns are the cause of all this we have to ask why there are so few shootings in, for example, the Dutch, Ukrainian, Irish, Portuguese, Korean, Hindu or African communities. Why, in fact, there are so few shootings in any community outside of the West Indian and specifically Jamaican. Oh Lord, the man must be mad. Silence him, stop him, call in a Human Rights Commission before it's too late! Yet there is nothing racist about seeking answers that might save the lives of young black men and much that is racist about refusing to ask basic questions for fear that politically correct credentials be damaged. If our leaders were braver they might admit that matriarchy is a fundamental theme of Jamaican society and the levels of fatherless families in the country's urban centres are staggering. This culture has been transferred to Canada. Just as it has to other Jamaican diaspora communities, which experience similar rates of violent crime. It might be comforting to see every young single mom as a saint who works three jobs and is devoted to her children, but positive caricatures are just as unhelpful as are negative ones. There are such mothers of course, but also young women who party late and work little. Who find themselves pregnant as teenagers and mothers of several children, perhaps from different fathers, by the time they are adults. Such problems occur to various extents in all communities, but when the only male role model is the gangster on the street corner with the loud car, loud clothes and loud gun, the chances of leading a law-abiding life are minimal. Made even harder by a dysfunctional obsession with disrespect. A gesture or a harmless comment can indicate lack of respect and the need to shoot. Just last week in London, England, three young black men shot a doorman point blank in the face three times because he politely asked them not to smoke. Hard to believe that this was the result of oppression, racism and lack of government programs. Especially as the victim was himself black. Poverty? Spare me. It is deeply insulting to assume that the poor are criminals. Also ridiculous to assume that there is genuine, crippling poverty in a country with free education, health care and subsidized housing. If we care we will halt the platitudes and try to help. No more patronizing blather, no more false scapegoats. If we care we will risk being called names. If we care. • You can e-mail Michael Coren through his website, http://www.michaelcoren.com • Have a letter for the editor? E-mail it to torsun.editor@sunmedia.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 02:04:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [US] Soda-wielding burglar shot http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/World/2007/07/28/4375054-sun.html Soda-wielding burglar shot Sat, July 28, 2007 01:23:59 MST By AP EL DORADO, Ark. -- An elderly man beaten unconscious by an assailant wielding a soda can awoke and shot the man during an attempted robbery, police said. Willie Lee Hill, 93, told police he saw the robber while in his bedroom Wednesday night. Hill confronted the man and was struck at least 50 times, police said. He was knocked unconscious. Covered in blood, Hill regained consciousness a short time later and pulled a .38-calibre handgun on his attacker. The suspect, Douglas Williams Jr., saw the gun and charged the man, who fired a bullet that struck Williams in the throat. "I got what I deserved," Williams, 24, told police when they arrived, officers said. Investigators reported finding, among other items, a drill bit set, three pocket knives and two hearing aids inside his pockets. Paramedics took Hill and Williams to the Medical Center of South Arkansas for treatment. Doctors sent Williams to the Louisiana State University Medical Center at Shreveport, where he was listed in critical condition yesterday. Employees at the Medical Center of South Arkansas refused to give Hill's condition or say if he'd been discharged from the hospital yesterday, citing medical privacy laws. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 02:12:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [LETTERS] Owen Sound Sun-Times, July 28/07 http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/webapp/sitepages/search/results.asp?contentid=628783&catname=Opinion%20&%20letters&type=search&search1=dixon Hate the killers, not the guns For: www.owensoundsuntimes.com - - Friday, July 27, 2007 @ 08:00 Editor: Deadly wrong. Yes, Mr. dixon is literally deadly wrong in his letter (Fewer handguns, etc.) and I do not mean it as a pun either. What he suggests is no solution at all. I wonder where he got the statistics that lots of handguns used in streets are stolen collector items - he must surely know that they are mostly illegal handguns, smuggled from States and sold now more or less openly on the streets of Toronto (as was already documented in the TV). We do not need to make illegal guns illegal. The weapons are already illegal, their use is illegal as well, so why we still have dead victims? Because we do nothing about the root causes! Does he really think that less policemen with handguns will stop the crime? All he would get is more daring criminals! But instead, he is afraid of careless policemen, would you believe it? Let him tell it to the mother of the killed child and the others that will come, if we do not do it right. Who will protect them then? Mr. dixon does not want life sentencing either - so which deterrent would remain? Or maybe he can go and talk to the street gangs during their shootings and convince them to stop it? What corner of paradise does he live in? Mr. dixon hates guns, but what he should really hate are the KILLERS. They will get their weapons one way or another. What we really need now is less killers! We need actions, we have to go after the smugglers, go after the illegal sellers, go after illegal buyers. We do not need the status quo, provided just with bigger signature. We need problem solvers, not armchair philosophers. Jan. B. Hurych Kincardine http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/webapp/sitepages/search/results.asp?contentid=630503&catname=Opinion%20&%20letters&type=search&search1=dixon Most handguns were smuggled For: www.owensoundsuntimes.com - - Saturday, July 28, 2007 @ 08:00 Editor: In reply to Mr dixon's letter of July 25: I can understand how someone who is uninformed about those who use firearms of any sort as part of a criminal lifestyle and who is unaware of how those individuals acquire those weapons could believe a ban could stop their use. A VPD study showed that the bulk of handguns seized from criminals were smuggled into the country, well over 80 per cent. With the uprise in gang-related criminal activity, and inter-gang turf wars involving firearms, it will require more than an ill informed "it will get more votes, and make me look like I am doing something" stance from our politicians to reduce the violence. Mr. Day's suggestions showed far more thought than the ban all handgun solutions that others are coming up with. Effective policing, hard sentences that are actually given with no parole for firearms-related criminal activity, and finding ways to reduce or eliminate the factors that drive people into gangs, will do far more to help resolve the problem that any ban. Do you not think sir that $1 billion spent on insuring legal gun owners follow increasingly complex and contradictory regulations would have been better spent building prisons, employing more police and border agents to stop the flow of illegal firearms? In particular as that registry has been proven to be ineffective and incorrect in far too many cases. In closing Mr. dixon, I would like to suggest that you try to get a little bit more informed both about gun control and those who use firearms for either sport or as part of their job. You have stated that you are are not so naive as to believe a ban, would stop all criminal activity. It is my belief that you are in fact naive about the issues of crime and gangs in this country, that is most likely a good thing in general, but with our politicians spending more time being politically correct and worrying about poll results its time for all of us to become as well informed as we can. Then and only then can we call the politicians on the mat for ill-informed comments, and attempts to pass off bandages as solutions. Richard Gallant Mission BC http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/webapp/sitepages/search/results.asp?contentid=630501&catname=Opinion%20&%20letters&type=search&search1=dixon Quoted stats are false For: www.owensoundsuntimes.com - - Saturday, July 28, 2007 @ 08:00 Editor: I would like to respond to Mr Malcolm dixons' letter in your paper. He quotes statistics that are false. If he was to research the FACTS as opposed to using emotional arguments he would learn that in EVERY location, be it a country or a city (ie; England or Washington D.C.) where firearms have been banned the rate of violent crime rises dramatically. By ensuring that there are no firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens it just makes criminals feel safer in their chosen profession. He says that the majority of handguns used in crimes come from legitimate owners. Again this is false and can be proven by some very simple research. I believe in Mr. dixon's right to his opinions, however I would like him to respect my rights as a legal and law abiding citizen to own and enjoy my hobby. I have paid my money and jumped through all the legal hoops to legally own my firearms, somehow I don't think the criminals have. Let us please focus on the person behind the gun and not the inanimate object. And please lets remember that cars have killed many more people in Canada than guns ever have. Jason Le Neveu Petawawa http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/webapp/sitepages/search/results.asp?contentid=630499&catname=Opinion%20&%20letters&type=search&search1=dixon Criminals will keep their guns For: www.owensoundsuntimes.com - - Saturday, July 28, 2007 @ 08:00 Editor: Regarding Malcolm dixon's emotional reasoning and gun hater statistics. Look up some studies, try Gary Mauser for a start. Being negative is easy, reason demands an effort. Want some easy math? Figure this. Disarm eight million Canadians but each and every criminal will still have at least one gun. Then what? Dan Baron Dryden http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/webapp/sitepages/search/results.asp?contentid=630498&catname=Opinion%20&%20letters&type=search&search1=dixon Letter should win award for ridiculous For: www.owensoundsuntimes.com - - Saturday, July 28, 2007 @ 08:00 Editor: The award for ridiculous comments has to go to Malcolm dixon, who is obviously inferring that fewer unarmed police is the best way to handle violent armed sociopaths. He states "Mr. Stockwell Days' suggestion that more officers on the street armed with handguns will reduce gun crimes is so ridiculous that it raises questions about the very intelligence of the man and how such a narrow-minded person became safety minister." Narrow-minded? Unintelligent? More cops with more guns doesn't sound like the answer to Mr. dixon. Nor can he understand why people own and collect guns - talk about narrow minded. It seems the Hollywood scenario he envisions has crept into his perception of reality. He says "statistics prove Mr. Day wrong" but he doesn't provide reference to his imaginary statistics. Indeed, the facts from the UK and Australia, where they have banned handguns, prove that Mr. Day is completely correct. Gun crime, especially with handguns, has increased exponentially in both of those countries AFTER they imposed their so-called bans. Mr. dixon is clearly completely ignorant on the subject of guns, gun crime, and the efficacy of gun laws. The only thing he wrote which I agreed with was this statement: "So what's the answer? I don't know. Now; I will cool off and let others have their say." Tom McAuley Winnipeg, MB http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/webapp/sitepages/search/results.asp?contentid=630497&catname=Opinion%20&%20letters&type=search&search1=dixon Writer must be on fantasy island For: www.owensoundsuntimes.com - - Saturday, July 28, 2007 @ 08:00 Editor: Malcolm dixon must be living on fantasy island as this would be the only situation of which would support his ridiculous ideas. Sadly we do not live in Malcolm's dream world, we live in Canada. The writer would like us all to believe that if police were not armed then Canada would be safe from criminals packing firearms. They would all just magically disappear because in Malcolm's world, things like gun smuggling and privately-owned machine shops do not exist. Yeah I agree, if the police and citizens in Canada no longer own or carry handguns it will become a safer place to live, safer for criminals. Malcolm says that the statistics prove Mr. Stockwell Day wrong but provides none. Perhaps they do not exist? All of the statistics I have read state that Stockwell Day is in fact correct. The incidence of handgun and firearm related crime has increased exponentially in both the U.K and Australia AFTER the ban on said firearms, go figure. It appears criminals don't care about the law what a surprise. So what's the answer, Malcolm? I do know - and part of it involves keeping narrow-minded people such as yourself out of the equation. Now; I will cool off and let other people who are in touch with reality have their say on the matter. Tristan Yockell Nova Scotia, Canada ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #668 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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