From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #695 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, August 9 2007 Volume 10 : Number 695 In this issue: Re: 'Presence' in the Far North My letter to the Globe (just sent) 2 dead, 6 wounded in shooting at Vancouver restaurant- CBC News Deadly Shooting- Vancouver Sun Officer remembered as friend, athlete Globe & Mail Legal system too costly for many, judge warns- National Post Lawyers get raw deal, $40M man says- National Post "...irregularities at public guardian's office- National Post" ICE MAY THWART MISSION TO CLAIM ARCTIC TERRITORY- National Post ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 10:06:56 -0400 From: Dan Haggarty Subject: Re: 'Presence' in the Far North Organization: Dunhaven Inc. Rick Lowe wrote: > Lee Jasper wrote: > > > and surely we've got a Sat taking a constant stream of pics for our > > national security folk and the military. > > Ummmmm... no. > > Even Radarsat-2 (being launched sometime this summer from Russia's Baikonur > Cosmodrome aboard a Soyuz SV, incidentally) won't provide that degree of > resolution necessary - unless a whole fleet of vessels drops anchor in the > Arctic. At very best, resolution can be 3x3 meters, meaning it can > potentially > resolve an object that 6x6 meters in size - meaning something about 18' > square. > You can throw an 18' squre around most main battle tanks. > With Google Maps, I can easily see the aircraft at Iqaluit airport. The road traffic is a little indistinct but visible. Maybe we should subcontract out our arctic surveillance to them... Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:17:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: My letter to the Globe (just sent) The do-not-cross line ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, Firearms have been variously vilified, worshipped, feared, misused and in the case of Kyran Pittman, mystified to the extent that her young child did not even have a name for one, referring to it as a "pffffter". The fear that firearms instill in many comes from lack of understanding. The respect for firearms, their safe handling and the responsibility for keeping others safe is not something which is picked up on the street. Children must be taught that firearms, like any power tool can inflict serious injury, but also like any power tool, they are are useful and have their place. Urban Canadians pride themselves as being different from Americans, and firearms are the typical embarcation point for any discussion on how we are somehow morally superior to the American "gun culture". The true gun culture in North America, Canada included is predicated upon the three equal principles of Safety, Responsibility and Respect. The culture which city dwellers confuse with responsible ownership is Hollywood's depiction which idolizes the criminal gang culture which only knows about the abuse of firearms, and the carnage that they cause, and as a totem from which a weird form of "respect" is supposed to magically appear. In the right hands, firearms are simply the power tool of a liberal democracy which respects individual rights and freedoms which are accorded to responsible citizens. In the wrong hands, the carnage is readily apparent, but we seem to lack the resolve to prevent it. Let us gather the political resolve to ensure that our society, and therefore our courts reflect the revulsion we feel about criminal violence, and start to send out the right message to the criminals. There are two types of firearm owners, and we would do well not to confuse them. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 11:52:33 -0600 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: 2 dead, 6 wounded in shooting at Vancouver restaurant- CBC News 2 dead, 6 wounded in shooting at Vancouver restaurant http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/08/09/vancouver-shooting.html Last Updated: Thursday, August 9, 2007 | 7:27 AM PT CBC News Photograph Police and forensic investigators quickly arrived at the scene of the shooting at the Fortune Happiness Restaurant in East Vancouver. (CBC) Image Vancouver Downtown City Street Map & Caption; Two men are dead and six people are in hospital with bullet wounds after an early-morning shooting at a restaurant. Two men are dead and six people are in hospital with bullet wounds after an early-morning shooting Thursday at a restaurant in East Vancouver, police say. One of the six wounded is in serious condition, according to police. Police said two men walked into the Fortune Happiness Restaurant at 654 East Broadway just west of Fraser Street and opened fire at about 4:30 a.m. PT. "A number of shots were fired at customers inside the restaurant," said Vancouver police Const. Howard Chow. Witnesses say the gunfire was intense, 9-mm and .40-calibre shell casings littered the floor, and tables and chairs were flipped over inside the restaurant. "Typically we'd see things like this and it would indicate to us that it's a targeted hit," said Chow. "That's all we've got. "I understand it was a very chaotic scene there. There [were] tables overturned, people shot. Obviously witnesses are very traumatized over what's taken place. "At the end of it, there were eight that were hit," said Chow. "Two are dead. The other six have been taken to hospital." Earlier reports that police have two suspects in custody are not correct, said Chow. Police say they are questioning at least six witnesses, and forensic and homicide investigators are at the scene. Officers were going door to door in the neighbourhood talking to residents and shopkeepers, while a helicopter circled overhead. Traffic was blocked on the 600 block of East Broadway west of Fraser to Carolina Street, but is now moving again. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:06:06 -0600 From: Dave Jordan Subject: Deadly Shooting- Vancouver Sun Deadly Shooting http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=fd9cc5cc-a16a-4ddf-b992-8655e0a8182e&k=24844 Eight people shot at least two dead at Fortune Happiness Restaurant on East Broadway. Jeff Lee, Vancouver Sun Published: Thursday, August 09, 2007 Two people, and possibly three were shot dead in an early-morning gang-style shooting at an East Broadway restaurant left at least half a dozen others injured. Vancouver police have confirmed that two people were shot dead and a third person seriously injured when two men entered the Fortune Happiness Restaurant at 654 East Broadway at about 4:30 a.m. and began shooting. The attack occurred as people were sitting around several tables. When patrons began fleeing, the gunmen apparently began shooting in several directions, resulting in at least one bullet exiting through a front plate glass window. Const. Howard Chow told media that six people were injured in the attack, one seriously. All were taken to hospital. Unconfirmed media reports as of 8 a.m. indicate that the most seriously-injured person was declared dead upon arrival at the hospital. Chow said at least six people witnessed the attack. All have been taken to police offices for interview. One neighbour, David Morrish, said he was woken up by the sound of multiple gunshots early in the morning. He said he walks by the restaurant daily, and only yesterday noted that a cardboard sign had been placed in the window noting that the restaurant "now" had security cameras. "There was a sign put up just yesterday that said security cameras were just installed," he said. "It was on a piece of cardboard on that door that has been shot out so I am assuming the people there knew there was going to be trouble." Forensic investigators clad completely in white jumpsuits took over the investigation and were collecting evidence. Chow declined to say what sparked the shooting, saying that was part of the investigation. But he said the two gunmen had escaped and remain at large. The incident took place in a run-down restaurant near the corner of Broadway and Fraser. It is unclear how many shots were fired, but the front door of the restaurant was shattered, either by bullets or by patrons in their rush to escape from the gunfire. There is also a large bullet hole in one front window. The shooting shut down the heavily-travelled Broadway corridor for several hours, and at one point police cordoned off the entire block from Fraser to Carolina, and from Broadway to E. 10th. Shortly before 8 a.m. they began letting traffic back on to Broadway. Chow said police will give more information on the incident in a late-morning briefing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:26:59 -0600 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Officer remembered as friend, athlete Globe & Mail FALLEN CONSTABLE Officer remembered as friend, athlete http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070809.OFFICER9/TPStory/National 'Affable manner and his Huron County charm made him a very easy person to get to know,' Chief says SEAN PATRICK SULLIVAN Canadian Press August 9, 2007 NEWMARKET -- Thousands of police officers from across Canada paid tribute yesterday to slain Detective Constable Robert Plunkett, who was remembered at his funeral service as a dedicated family man with a personal motto of: "Go big or go home." Det. Constable Plunkett, 43, a 22-year veteran of York Regional Police, was killed last week when he was struck by a car while attempting to make an arrest. Officers in dress uniform were marshalled on a grass-covered slope before marching into the complex in this city north of Toronto, followed by a solemn stream of mourners. The complex's 3,500 seats were filled, as was an overflow room. Some 1,500 other mourners - many of them uniformed police officers - listened to the ceremony from the parking lot in 30-degree temperatures. York Regional Police Chief Armand La Barge praised Det. Constable Plunkett's athleticism and superb physical conditioning, which he said set the officer apart from others in his rookie year. "Rob's affable manner and his Huron County charm made him a very easy person to get to know, and as a member of our police service, Rob distinguished himself as a very determined and a very gifted athlete," Chief La Barge said. York Inspector Tom Carrique said Det. Constable Plunkett's colleagues valued his ability to bring levity to a situation with a practical joke, often at the expense of an unsuspecting supervisor. He recalled how "Plunk" and a few accomplices were once caught carrying a colleague's Austin Mini Cooper across a parking lot on their way to hiding it in a corn field. Glenn MacDonnell, president of Special Olympics Ontario, said Det. Constable Plunkett's love of sport - and his belief that policing is more than just law and order - prompted the enthusiastic officer to throw himself into organizing events for the group, including acting as chair for the Special Olympic Spring Games in 2000. Det. Constable Plunkett received a number of accolades throughout his career, including one in February, 1998, when he was recognized for bravery in assisting in rescuing an elderly woman from the freezing waters of Swan Lake in nearby Markham. He is survived by his wife Sonja and three children, Amanda, Matthew and Jeffrey. The funeral comes one day after a charge against a suspect in Det. Constable Plunkett's death, Nadeem Jiwa, 19, was upgraded from manslaughter to first-degree murder. Baseer Yousafzai, 23, faces at least four lesser charges. Both suspects appeared in a Newmarket courtroom yesterday and will return to court later this month. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:43:17 -0600 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Legal system too costly for many, judge warns- National Post Legal system too costly for many, judge warns http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=8e974379-a133-4e5c-8d37-550123909fc9&k=60736&p=1 Image Justice John Gomery, shown at his Havelock, Que., home, is retiring after nearly 50 years on the bench. John Kenney, CanWest News Service Janice Tibbetts, CanWest News Service Published: Thursday, August 09, 2007 OTTAWA -- Canada's justice system is on a dangerous path that can only be reversed if lawyers cut their fees and governments put more money into legal aid, says Justice John Gomery, the judge who led the 2004-2005 inquiry into the federal sponsorship scandal. Speaking on the eve of his retirement, Judge Gomery said the escalating cost of legal services is an "alarming trend" that is putting the justice system out of reach for everyone but the wealthy. "The problem is a problem of costs," the judge said in a telephone interview from his farm in Havelock, Que. "I think the cost of engaging a lawyer has to be examined." Judge Gomery stressed that "it is not just the poor; it's the great middle class" who are representing themselves in court because they cannot afford legal fees. "I don't think the legal profession is giving the proper attention to the problem and it's suicidal, the direction that we're going now." After 25 years on the Quebec Superior Court, Judge Gomery steps down today at the mandatory retirement age of 75. His parting assessment of the administration of justice is the latest shot at a system that has been widely criticized for being inaccessible and producing a surge in litigants showing up in court without lawyers. The most recent national figures on lawyers' fees, contained in a two-year-old survey by Canadian Lawyer magazine, peg the average hourly rate for a lawyer with 10 years of experience at $170 to $260, depending on the region. The average price of a contested divorce in 2005 was $8,505, while it cost an average of $20,830 to go to court for two days in a civil trial. The magazine did not publish a survey in 2006 and 2007 because not enough lawyers responded to make the results meaningful. Judge Gomery, acknowledging he likes to "say simple things simply," spelled out the access-to-justice problem more plainly than other judges who have weighed in on the matter. For instance, the Supreme Court of Canada's Chief Justice, Beverley McLachlin, has said lawyers have a "crucial role to play" to make the justice system more accessible, but she stopped short of calling on them to lower their fees. "I think it's for the bar to answer that question," she said during a news conference last August, following a speech in which she asserted there was an "epidemic" of unrepresented litigants trying to navigate their way through the system. "It would be presumptuous of me to say law firms should do this or that or the other thing, but I raised it as a question for the bar to ask themselves." The president of the Canadian Bar Association, J. Parker Mac-Carthy, said lawyers are only a part of a problem that includes governments charging taxes on legal services, along with court delays that are costing extra money, and cumbersome court rules that consume too much time. "Legal fees should not be looked upon as a stand-alone barrier to access to justice," said Mr. MacCarthy, who added that lawyers, as a group, donate a generous portion of their time giving free legal help to those in need. Judge Gomery also addressed the problem of dwindling legal aid, but he did not elaborate, other than to say the state must contribute more to the battered program for people who cannot afford the cost of legal services themselves. Several provinces have unsuccessfully lobbied Ottawa to increase federal contributions to legal aid, a program that is administered and funded mainly at the provincial level. The Canadian Bar Association has been locked in a legal challenge against the federal government, claiming that legal aid is a constitutional right. Judge Gomery leaves the bench following a legal career that has spanned almost five decades. He said the federal sponsorship inquiry, which former prime minister Paul Martin called in 2004 to get to the bottom of how the Liberals misspent millions on a program designed to raise the federal profile in post-referendum Quebec, was the highlight of his career. But he acknowledged he made mistakes -- notably saying in newspaper interviews that one witness was a "charming scamp." He also said the actions of former prime minister Jean Chretien were "small-town cheap," a reference to the handing out of monogrammed golf balls. "The kinds of things I said in some ill-advised interviews, some things I regret and had to apologize for," he said. "But, looking at my career in retrospect, I am not going to dwell on the things I could have done better. I made lots of mistakes, but I'ma human being." © National Post 2007 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:59:12 -0600 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Lawyers get raw deal, $40M man says- National Post Lawyers get raw deal, $40M man says http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/canada/story.html?id=06b9a701-ae4f-4668-95eb-5883f99a359c Image Tony Merchant, whose firm spearheaded the lawsuits of residential schools survivors, told Canadian Lawyer magazine his ilk contribute more to society, but earn less money, than bank presidents. Don Healy, CanWest News Service Files Defends Residential Schools Fees With Barb On Bank CEOs Richard Foot, CanWest News Service Published: Thursday, August 09, 2007 Tony Merchant, the controversial Regina lawyer whose firm is awaiting a record $40-million payday from Indian residential schools abuse claims, has defended the fees by saying lawyers "contribute" more to society than Canada's bank presidents, yet earn less. In the August issue of Canadian Lawyer magazine, a glossy national trade journal whose current issue was published this week, Mr. Merchant defends the $28-million-to-$43-million in fees his firm is expected to receive for spearheading the lawsuits of thousands of residential school survivors. The Merchant Law Group's impending payout is believed to be the largest in Canadian history and has raised the eyebrows of federal officials, native leaders and even fellow lawyers. But Mr. Merchant says the fees his firm is due after years of work on the complex file are nothing compared to what bank executives are paid. "What ought to be depressing for lawyers everywhere, if it is the largest fee, is that some bank presidents make that much every year. I think many lawyers make a greater contribution," he is quoted as saying. The chief executives of Canada's five major banks have sometimes been criticized for their hefty pay and retirement packages. Last year, however, none earned the lofty money Mr. Merchant suggests. Tony Comper of the Bank of Montreal and Scotiabank's Richard Waugh were each paid more than $13-million in 2006. Gordon Nixon of the Royal Bank earned $9.6-million, Ed Clark of the Toronto-Dominion Bank received $8.4-million and CIBC's Gerry McCaughey was paid a mere $1.8-million, small change by Bay Street standards. In contrast, Jim Balsillie, CEO of BlackBerry maker Research In Motion Ltd., was paid $54.7-million, making him Canada's high-est-paid executive in 2006. And bank presidents have, in the past, earned much more. John Hunkin, the former chief executive of CIBC, made $29.5-million in 2005. Mr. Merchant, a self-described "iconoclast" whose wife is Liberal Senator Pana Merchant, is no stranger to controversy. He has a reputation for tweaking the noses of fellow lawyers, judges and other members of the establishment, often in the oddest ways. In Canadian Lawyer, for example, he also criticizes lawyers for failing to give straight answers to simple questions. "If you ask a lawyer to describe that jacket," he is quoted as saying, "they will say, 'It has green and red diagonal and horizontal lines with varying shades and threads that go up and down and take a circular motion around the shoulders.' If you ask Tony Merchant, he'll say, 'It's a plaid jacket.' " Mr. Merchant, 62, first made a national name for himself in the early 1980s when he represented Colin Thatcher, the Saskatchewan politician convicted of murdering his ex-wife. More recently, he was instrumental in pressing residential school abuse claims in court, and bringing the issue to national attention. Mr. Merchant has said his firm is owed $70-million for its residential schools work. However, as part of a court-approved agreement with the federal government, the firm is expected to receive about half that amount, flowing from a $1.9-billion federal settlement with residential school claimants. The lawyer could not be reached for comment. © National Post 2007 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:06:38 -0600 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: "...irregularities at public guardian's office- National Post" Subject: "Police probe irregularities at public guardian's office- National Post" Police probe irregularities at public guardian's office http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/canada/story.html?id=751cf2d0-7853-4ef5-beb7-7d4c2c467c08 Allegations Of Theft Led To Firing Of One Employee Jack Spearman, CanWest News Service Published: Thursday, August 09, 2007 OTTAWA - Attorney-General Michael Bryant said yesterday he has asked police to probe allegations of theft at the Ontario Office of the Public Guardian and Trustee, the agency that tends to the financial affairs of some of the province's most vulnerable citizens. As well, he said a female employee has been fired. The woman has not been identified, but Mr. Bryant said she was a client representative who had been with agency since 1995. He would not say how much money is involved. "The OPP [Ontario Provincial Police] have asked me not to speculate on the amount," said Mr. Bryant, who added he is personally revolted at the allegations of financial impropriety. He said so far it appears to be the work of what he termed "only one, apparently rogue, employee." "It's sickening to think that someone in a position of trust would do something like this," he said. The office has 350 staff -- 200 of whom are client representatives -- and looks after more than $1-billion on behalf of 9,000 Ontario residents who have been deemed incapable of looking after their own financial, health and other affairs. The office tends to matters such as paying rent and utility bills and also offering guidance on nutrition, hygiene, clothing and health care. The agency also plays a role in monitoring Ontario charities. "It is totally unacceptable to think that anyone would take advantage of those who are incapable of protecting themselves," Mr. Bryant said. "The clients of this office and the public at large deserve swift action to get to the bottom of these allegations and to rectify any wrongs immediately." Integrity Commissioner Coulter Osborne has been assigned to intervene on behalf of any individuals or families who may have suffered financial loss. As well, a panel of accountants and auditors has been set up to prevent a repeat of the situation. © National Post 2007 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:21:47 -0600 From: Dave Jordan Subject: ICE MAY THWART MISSION TO CLAIM ARCTIC TERRITORY- National Post *Weren't these the same people who just a couple of months ago were complaining about the "shrinking" Arctic ice cap??? Oh, but now ice is a problem?????? - -DRGJ ICE MAY THWART MISSION TO CLAIM ARCTIC TERRITORY Oil And Gas Deposits http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/canada/story.html?id=f3711b45-234f-43c4-8b87-c3a936042ef7&p=1 Randy Boswell, CanWest News Service Published: Thursday, August 09, 2007 The federal scientist leading an urgent effort to gather sea floor data to back Canada's territorial claims in the Arctic is warning that his mission will be "in trouble" if ice conditions seriously disrupt fieldwork before the UN's 2013 deadline. Jacob Verhoef, director of the Atlantic division of the Geological Survey of Canada, told CanWest News Service yesterday that "it's not realistic that all five field seasons will be perfect." And that, he said, raises a risk that the research needed to substantiate Canada's hoped-for extensions to its continental shelf in the North -- and obtain rights over potentially lucrative oil and gas deposits -- won't get done adequately or on time. "If everything goes right, it can work," he said. "You can make all the plans you want, but you can't predict the ice conditions. Any work you do in the Arctic is high risk. We've tried to come up with a plan that might work. It's the best we can do." Mr. Verhoef was even more blunt about his doubts in an interview published yesterday by Embassy magazine, an Ottawa-based foreign affairs publication. "If anything goes wrong, and we lose one or two field seasons -- which we very likely will because of conditions in the Arctic-- we are in trouble," he said. The frank admission from Canada's chief scientist on the crucial Arctic mapping project comes amid growing tensions between Russia and the four other polar nations -- Canada, the United States, Denmark and Norway -- over the future ownership of millions of square kilometres of Arctic Ocean seabed, thought to contain a quarter of the world's remaining petroleum reserves. Prime Minister Stephen Harper, under fire from opposition critics and polar experts for what they call an inadequate plan to assert Canada's Arctic sovereignty, is currently on a trip to the North to highlight some of his government's initiatives, such as the planned creation of a deepwater port and a promised fleet of Arctic patrol vessels. Last week, a Russian research expedition sparked a global uproar by sending two miniature submarines to the North Pole and planting a flag on the Arctic Ocean bottom. Meanwhile, the U.S. icebreaker Healy is heading toward the North Pole this week on an expedition seen as a countermeasure against Russia -- which yesterday announced another expedition of its own to the pole in November. Last week's first-ever dive to the North Pole sea floor, interpreted as a Kremlin-sponsored act of bravado aimed at boosting national pride, was also intended to generate evidence for Russia's claim that the Lomonosov Ridge -- a 1,500-km underwater mountain chain running between Siberia and Canada's Ellesmere Island--is geologically linked to Asia and therefore owned by Russia under terms of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Mr. Verhoef's team has been assigned to gather evidence that might disprove Russia's recent claim to the Arctic, but the task, given the short timeline and the lack of a Canadian icebreaker that can penetrate the thickest Arctic ice, is daunting. Prof. Byers has been critical of Mr. Harper's downgraded icebreaker election promise. Instead of purchasing two full-range, heavy-duty icebreakers, the Conservative government announced last month it would spend more than $3-billion on up to eight reinforced Arctic patrol vessels that would not be able to plough through ice more than one metre thick. The new ships will not be available in time to help meet Canada's 2013 deadline, Mr. Verhoef said. Like Russia and the other polar nations, Canada already exercises control over seabed resources within an economic zone that extends 200 nautical miles from the country's coast. Under UNCLOS, a country can secure rights to seabed territory reaching far beyond the 200-mile limit if it can prove -- within 10 years of ratifying the agreement -- that a portion of the ocean floor is connected to its continental shelf. Russian scientists first submitted their claim in 2001, but UNCLOS officials sent them back to gather more data, which is due for resubmission in 2009. Canada's deadline for making its case is December, 2013, and federal scientists led by Mr. Verhoef have recently been cooperating with Denmark to map the Arctic sea floor around the North American terminus of the Lomonosov Ridge. © National Post 2007 ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #695 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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