From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #800 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, September 14 2007 Volume 10 : Number 800 In this issue: re: Ottawa to open hearings on internet privacy- National Post Re: Metal Detectors Re: re: Ottawa to open hearings on internet privacy- National Post Black Bear shooting on St. Joe Isalnd Black Bear shooting on St. Joe Isalnd- The Sault Star [Text Copy] Shooting 'threatening' bear proves costly-The Sault Star:Text Copy A year after shootings, college marks `day of hope' [EDITORIAL] City cannot give in to youth violence [LETTER] With teens and crime, guns are not the issue [LETTERS] Toronto Star, Sept. 14/07 Safety or Privacy -- pick one ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:05:16 -0700 From: Christopher di Armani Subject: re: Ottawa to open hearings on internet privacy- National Post The "Frequently Asked Questions" document for "Lawful Access" is found here: http://www.canada.justice.gc.ca/en/cons/la_al/summary/faq.html and information on the past attempts to implement this is found here: http://www.canada.justice.gc.ca/en/cons/la_al/ Yours in Liberty, Christopher di Armani christopher@diArmani.com http://www.diArmani.com Check out the latest from Katey Montague at http://www.YouTube.com/kateysfirearmsfacts ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:57:39 -0400 From: jfsyqt Subject: Re: Metal Detectors Looks can be deceiving! Empty out your pockets of all your change and then run a magnet over the pennies. The newer pennies will be attracted to the magnet while the older ones will not. This means that the older ones are indeed copper, while the newer ones are just copper washed ferrous metal! All other coins, except for the older silver coins (if you are lucky enough to come across one) are all magnetic. I guess copper is just too expensive for coinage! John Scott Thunder Bay, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:19:21 -0600 From: Dave Jordan Subject: Re: re: Ottawa to open hearings on internet privacy- National Post Good Work Chris! I don't know what everybody else thinks, but to me this seems that this could be some really scary shit! At least with a legal writ/warrant, law enforcement have to have "some kind" of probable cause and they are, or can be constrained by the parameters of the warrant, as in length of time, etc.. In other words they're somewhat proactive. What this on a cursory look, looks like is, that while they have yet to set out the parameters of the scope of this "intrusion" and information collection, they, that is law enforcement, therefore "the state" are trying to undermine the warrant/writ legal involvement and in essence, while again not defined out-right, to be able to bypass the legal checks and balances of the systems of laws as we have, [which are a very precious few anyways], that we have to protect us from unwarranted intrusion from law enforcement, therefore "the state". One could call this Kanuckistan's version of an enhanced "homeland securities act", of which it kind of looks like whatever oversight and checks that there "might be" as they're not clearly defined in this document, are...uh after the fact. Or reactive. The part that I really liked was; "Lawful access is a specialized tool used to investigate "serious crimes"", et al. There already exists an extreme amount of "wiggle room" even by their used examples of; "...such as drug trafficking, money laundering, smuggling, child pornography, and murder. Lawful interception of communications is also an essential tool for the investigation of threats to national security, such as terrorism." "such as terrorism" Man, they just LOVE to use that word "terrorism", don't they?! Eh, it's all encompassing, yet extremely nebulous in it's definition. If things weren't bad before, well, even just we little people that "chat" here in our E-Zine which is already publicly available could literally put us all under suspicion, in where some of the most inane and innocuous things that we say here could literally open up all of our communications by virtue of association. Mind you, we have discussed this before, when this issue raised it's head a couple of years ago anyways, remember? It was scary then, and is still "the big bogeyman in the closet" yet- Only now he's beginning to become more defined. "Brace yer self Billy! Ye jus' don't know- jus' how big t'is is going to be!!!!" Later-DRGJ - ---- Original Message ----- From: Christopher di Armani Date: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:05 pm Subject: re: Ottawa to open hearings on internet privacy- National Post > The "Frequently Asked Questions" document for "Lawful Access" is > found here: > http://www.canada.justice.gc.ca/en/cons/la_al/summary/faq.html > > and information on the past attempts to implement this is found here: > http://www.canada.justice.gc.ca/en/cons/la_al/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:29:56 -0400 From: Keith Subject: Black Bear shooting on St. Joe Isalnd http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=692622&auth=Frank+Dobrovnik%2fSault+Star http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=690344&auth=Frank+Dobrovnik Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:29:56 -0400 From: Keith Subject: Black Bear shooting on St. Joe Isalnd- The Sault Star [Text Copy] *FYI- This is a Text Copy of the first of the two URL's posted. I'm providing these text copies just in case the news items of the URL's provided are archived and moved under a different URL listing tomorrow/today on this media outlet's website. CFD Moderator- DRGJ http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=692622&auth=Frank+Dobrovnik%2fSault+Star Must take care before shooting bear, MNR says Dispute's St. Joe man's complain he was protecting family Posted By Frank Dobrovnik/Sault Star Posted 1 day ago | Updated 10 hours ago A St. Joseph Island man was obligated to explore all options before tracking down and shooting a female bear and two cubs and then leaving their bodies to rot, maintains the Ministry of Natural Resources' northeast region enforcement operations manager. "There is a responsibility on the public to demonstrate due diligence prior to destroying a bear. The first thing we ask the public to do is to contact the MNR . . . and give us the opportunity to assess the situation," said Ernie Heerschap from Sudbury Thursday. Heerschap was responding to comments made in Wednesday's Sault Star by Richard "Dick" Kent, who says he was defending his daughter and grandchildren last May 22. Kent, 64, said he had seen the animals at his daughter's Tarbutt Township home a few days earlier and was told they'd been hanging around for some weeks. He came across them again about a quarter-kilometre away on May 22, and the sow didn't flinch when he pulled up to her in his truck but "sat on her haunches," said Kent, who also was interviewed on CBC regional radio Thursday morning. "I think most people would agree you can't wait around forever when you have a bear in your yard who's not afraid of you." A Justice of the Peace did not agree. Kent was found guilty last Thursday of unlawfully hunting bear, fined $1,225 and suspended from hunting for a year. His firearms were also permanently confiscated, Heerschap said. The fact several days passed before he came across the bears again clearly proves no one was in imminent danger and that the man had other avenues before dispatching them, Heerschap said. "In this situation the animals weren't posing an immediate threat, and that was critical to the case in court," he said. "If there was evidence to suggest that the person's life was in danger, then discretion would prevail and there may be different results. But, again, the person has to show due diligence, and in this particular situation, there wasn't a threat." Kent said he "had no confidence at all" in the MNR, based on past experience. At least one reader disagrees. "My confidence has been renewed that they are prosecuting people who have ignorance towards animals and the law," wrote the woman, who wished to remain anonymous. "When you choose to live in the middle of the bush, one would think that you may encounter bears at some point. What gives Mr. Kent the right to track down these bears and shoot them on somebody else's property?" Sault Ste. Marie resident Katalin Peter also complains that she's "sick and tired" of hearing the word nuisance applied to bears, when in cases such as Kent's it is humans who are encroaching on their territory. "Who gives us the power to decide which animal lives or dies, or how many should stay alive?" said Peter "The human population is rising rapidly. We're taking over the land and waterfront that has belonged for millions of years to the wildlife. . . . Are we not the nuisance?" Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:29:56 -0400 From: Keith Subject: Shooting 'threatening' bear proves costly-The Sault Star:Text Copy *FYI- This is a Text Copy of the second of the two URL's posted. I'm providing these text copies just in case the news items of the URL's provided are archived and moved under a different URL listing tomorrow/today on this media outlet's website. CFD Moderator- DRGJ http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=690344&auth=Frank+Dobrovnik Shooting 'threatening' bear proves costly; St. Joe man fined, banned from hunting for 'protecting family' Image Richard (Dick) Kent sorts through documents at his home on St. Joseph Island. Donna Schell — Special to The Star Caption: "Common sense says if you have an animal you feel is threatening your family, you want to do something before something bad happens." Posted By Frank Dobrovnik Posted 2 days ago | Updated 1 day ago A St. Joseph Island man says he's being punished for protecting his daughter and grandchildren against a family of nuisance bears, then trying to explain himself in court. Richard Kent lost his hunting privileges for a year and was fined $1,225 for unlawfully hunting bear. Kent, 64, tried to plead guilty with an explanation in the Ontario Court of Justice in Sault Ste. Marie last Thursday. "Common sense says if you have an animal you feel is threatening your family, you want to do something before something bad happens," said Kent Tuesday from his home on the island. He said he was at his daughter's Tarbutt Township home last May, which doubles as a private daycare, when he witnessed a sow bear and two cubs on the property. His daughter, who has three children of her own, told him the animals had been hanging around "on and off for the last few weeks," he said. A few days later, on May 22, he spotted the trio again about a quarter of a kilometre away. He said the sow didn't flinch when he pulled right up to her in his truck; in fact, "instead of running into the bush like a normal bear, she sat on her haunches," as if expecting to be fed. "They had lost their fear of humans." The lifelong hunter blames those who bait bears with "truckfuls of food" for domesticating them to humans. During hunting season, it is legal to shoot male bears but not females with cubs, who are then allowed to eat bait and eventually associate humans with food. "I think most people would agree you can't wait around forever when you have a bear in your yard who's not afraid of you." He admits to shooting them with his daughter's rifle, leaving the bodies there and not contacting any authorities. Based on past experience, he had "no confidence at all" in the Ministry of Natural Resources to protect people from bears. His daughter reported nuisance bears in the past to the MNR, "and they put all the blame on her," he said. "They told her she has to take the garbage to the dump every day, but the dump is only open two days a week." Kent could have avoided court altogether and paid a $365 fine that comes with pleading guilty to the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act charge. But Kent, who represented himself in court, "was so sure the judge would agree. All I had to do was prove this bear was a threat." Under Sec. 31 of the act, "If a person believes on reasonable grounds that wildlife is damaging or is about to damage the person's property," they are justified in killing it. Kent said the Crown successfully convinced the Justice of the Peace the act makes concessions for damage to property, but not threat to human life. He could shoot an animal "if it was trampling my oats or eating my corn . . . but what's more valuable than human life?" He'd like to appeal "but I'm afraid to do any more. . . . What can you do about it? If you dispute what this government does, they just fine you more." Meanwhile, he'll sit out deer hunting season this year when it starts up shortly. "I guess I'll cut wood. I've got a fine to pay." MNR officials did not return calls for comment Tuesday morning or afternoon. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:24:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: A year after shootings, college marks `day of hope' http://www.thestar.com/News/article/256575 A year after shootings, college marks `day of hope' Sep 14, 2007 04:30 AM Sidhartha Banerjee Canadian Press MONTREAL–The Dawson College community took a deep breath and moved forward together yesterday from the bloody memory of one year ago. Hundreds of students, dignitaries and families gathered in the atrium of the lush Montreal campus to remember the day that changed their lives. A violent rampage by gunman Kimveer Gill on Sept. 13, 2006, took the life of 18-year-old Anastasia De Sousa. Nineteen people were wounded in the shooting spree before Gill was shot by police and later turned his gun on himself. "Students at Dawson College got a sobering dose of reality that day that will stay with us forever," said student council president Charlie Brenchley. "We were broken and lost in the wake of the shooting. I wondered how we would carry on. We are survivors. We stood up and we will continue along our path." Later, Dawson announced the inauguration of a peace garden with the planting of a tree donated by Montreal police. It was planted by De Sousa's family. "This is a day of hope," Premier Jean Charest said after the tree planting. "This is a day that together we can look ahead." Charest described De Sousa as "an extraordinary young woman." The premier also thanked police, ambulance technicians and other personnel "who came to the rescue" that day. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:26:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [EDITORIAL] City cannot give in to youth violence http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/255947 City cannot give in to youth violence Sep 13, 2007 04:30 AM As another family weeps for a lost son, slain while attending high school, Toronto residents are justifiably wondering when, and if, this deadly wave of carnage will ever cease. Sadly for the city, there seems to be no end in sight. Each new outrage seems to follow in the slipstream of the last. Just four months ago, 15-year-old Jordan Manners was gunned down at C.W. Jefferys Collegiate. Several weeks later, 18-year-old Jeremy Paul was shot and killed leaving Burnhamthorpe Collegiate Institute, on the East Mall. And now 16-year-old Dineshkumar Murugiah, 16, has been stabbed to death, at lunch time, just outside the grounds of Winston Churchill Collegiate Institute. Each of those fatalities represents an immeasurable loss to society, a young life snuffed out before reaching its full potential. And each is a tragedy, leaving friends and family members struggling to cope with an act of senseless violence that will forever change their lives. The sympathy of Torontonians goes out to those who knew and loved Murugiah. This youth had no known ties to any gang, Det.-Sgt. Gary Grinton of the homicide squad said yesterday. "He was a young man at school doing absolutely nothing wrong." But that didn't stop an assailant with a knife from stealing his life away. Society seems at a loss in preventing such mindless brutality. But it is not for lack of trying. A three-member advisory panel on Toronto school safety, headed by lawyer Julian Falconer, was established in the wake of the Manners shooting. And Queen's Park has appointed a two-person team to examine youth violence. The findings of these panels will be added to those of at least 10 commissions, probes and official reports on race relations, violence and policing either in Toronto or in Ontario. At the same time, police have aggressively cracked down on gangs, attacking the notorious Driftwood Crips earlier this year and, before that, breaking up the Jamestown Crew. Renewed emphasis has been put on community policing and 400 new officers have been hired. Extra staff works Toronto's most troubled neighbourhoods, with officers contacting residents and building trust. Meanwhile, politicians at city hall and Queen's Park have expanded recreation opportunities, job training, mentoring and other services aimed at keeping young people from drifting into gangs. The province paid $4 million this summer to keep schools open in vulnerable communities. And voluntary efforts are underway at the grassroots level. Community leaders have spoken out against the violence and concerned organizations, like the Toronto Argonauts, have raised money and made a special effort to reach at-risk youth in troubled areas. Despite all these efforts, the deaths still continue. Murugiah is Toronto's 57th homicide victim so far this year. And his fate provides a heartbreaking reminder that, despite all we have attempted, and all we have hoped, an even greater effort must be made to blunt youth violence. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:28:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [LETTER] With teens and crime, guns are not the issue http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/255972 With teens and crime, guns are not the issue Sep 13, 2007 04:30 AM Re: Students' hangout turns deadly, Sept. 12 Another homicide at a Toronto school and another one involving a knife. The Toronto police crackdown on firearms has only resulted in the substitution of one weapon of choice for another. Some politicians have tried to take the easy, ideological way out by promoting a firearms ban. Now perhaps politicians will concentrate on the real issues, such as the environment in which kids are raised. Mike Mays, Barrie, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:30:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [LETTERS] Toronto Star, Sept. 14/07 http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/255480 Self-defence is underrated Letter, Sept. 11 Andrea Hannen has concluded that an American-style approach to violent crimes – self-defence with a firearm – is the answer to deter such crimes, and proposes making guns available as a means for victims to protect themselves. If that were true, the United States would be one of the safest places on Earth with its high rate of gun ownership – estimated by the FBI at more than 200 million in civilian hands. The reality is quite different. Making access to handguns so easy in the U.S. has also meant criminals have no difficulty getting those same guns. Faced with the higher likelihood of facing armed victims, many criminals have chosen to arm themselves. Criminals may not be rocket scientists, but they are smart enough to arm themselves at least as well as their victims. With Hannen's proposal, instead of facing a typically unarmed rapist, the victim will now more likely face a rapist armed with a gun. The outcome of an armed victim and assailant shooting it out is likely to favour the assailant, who has time to prepare for the attack. There are reasons why the U.S. has rates of gun crimes several times higher than in other Western nations that have more controls and fewer guns. It is not because guns are an effective deterrent to those crimes, as is clearly demonstrated by far higher rates of gun homicides and crimes. Gary MacLean, Richmond Hill Andrea Hannen writes about self-defence, personal security, and of how political policies and practices have basically made the citizens of Canada open to victimization. I agree completely. Even now, university and college organizations don't want the added security of police patrols out of a fear of creating "armed camps" and a poisoned atmosphere for students. Are these people so fearful of police and security personnel that somehow "text message alerts" are an acceptable means of defence? These same people inquire about Tasers and pepper spray, not knowing that they've been banned as prohibited weapons. Hannen discusses the use of firearms for self-defence and I agree, as any law-abiding Canadian can legally own a firearm, yet no law-abiding Canadian can own a Taser or pepper spray. Until people stop denying that violent crime is on the rise and that Canadians need to be able to defend themselves, criminals will continue to grow bolder and more vicious. Mike Duynhoven, Kitchener, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:37:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Safety or Privacy -- pick one ... Please note the mandarins are at it again. In order to keep you "safe" from the boogeyman, there are those who would turn Canada into a police state. Follows the link to the public information, and my reply to Big Brother ... (I guess now they have it twice 8-). http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/prg/ns/cna-en.asp Mail to: cna-consultations@ps-sp.gc.ca Participate, or do nothing, as your conscience dictates. Thanks to Rick Lowe for bringing this to my attention! Rob. CNA circumvention of legal warrant application ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, It occurs that any time an agency, and in particular the political types indicate a burning need for new sweeping powers in conjunction with some perceived emergency, time and time again those powers are used in a way unintended, or in order to simply circumvent due process and Charter rights as set out within our Constitution and Bill of Rights. The Liberal government added to the 9/11 inspired Terror provisions the ability to employ security certificates, and that was the very mechanism used to deport Holocaust denier and hate merchant Ernst Zundel, ostensibly to avoid political fallout for the Justice Ministry, and to cut short his avenues of appeal (which had admittedly gone on far too long in the case of Zundel), but again, political expediency trumped due process, and Canada should be ashamed not at the outcome, but at the abuse of due process. The time honoured mechanism of employing the courts to protect the citizenry against the mandarins within their own government, as God knows, that protection has proven necessary on many occasions, and moreover it has been clearly demonstrated that the existing mechanism of due process and justifying a court issued warrant by way of evidence collected to enable further scrutiny works just fine. The very idea of turning Canada into a police state in order to prevent it from becoming a police state is as reprehensible to most Canadians as it is oxymoronic. Individual rights and freedoms within Canada have been usurped enough as it is, and I vehemently object to the idea that any agency, whether it be the Cabinet, The RCMP, CSIS or any other agency within the Canadian government be granted extra-judicial powers to undermine the privacy and due process rights of its citizens. I can willingly accept the risk of a potential threat to my safety, as that risk is an hypothetical probability, but I cannot abide the sure knowledge that our own government has become Big Brother, and may be digging through my underwear drawers or listening in at any time without ample justification to an independent authority whose duty it is to uphold the laws and constitution of the Dominion of Canada. Please rethink your proposal, respect the Charter of Rights, and work within the framework of our existing legal system. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #800 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:d.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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