From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #808 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, September 17 2007 Volume 10 : Number 808 In this issue: Two Toronto divers feared dead... on dangerous Welland River Hello, hello, do you hear me now? Military food contracts under fire- The Ottawa Citizen Letter to Editor re: A policeman's policeman Vancouver Sun Letters - Shoot back... Throw the book Premier shares blame, beaten man's kin says- TheStar Explicit voice mail demeaning, Wills jury hears- TheStar Re: PGP on digest Perhaps ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:34:02 -0600 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Two Toronto divers feared dead... on dangerous Welland River FYI- As per MrEd's comments yesterday. - -DRGJ Two Toronto divers feared dead after rescue drama on dangerous Welland River http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/toronto/story.html?id=4cb7bef8-5aed-4d1e-9628-29a04fb8c9aa Melissa Leong, National Post Published: Monday, September 17, 2007 Rescue crews searched the Welland River yesterday for two Toronto divers who are feared dead after they went missing under the waters. The two men were part of a five-member recreational group that went diving in the river. At 9:30 a.m., police received a call about a diver struggling against the current. Fire personnel rescued the man. Two other divers, a man and a woman, managed to reach the shore. Signs are posted in the area warning against scuba diving, Constable Neal Orlando with the Niagara Regional Police said. "The water is unpredictable," he said. The river feeds a hydro-electric station which controls the direction in which the water flows, he said. The police's marine unit continued their search and recovery operation last night. © National Post 2007 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:35:37 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Hello, hello, do you hear me now? From: roadrunner144@telus.net Subject: can you hear me now? Hello? Date: September 16, 2007 23:58:15 PDT To: lettertoed@thestar.ca Cc: Day.S@parl.gc.ca, BreitG0@parl.gc.ca HEALTH CARE IN CANADA http://www.careersinhealthcare.ca/ Why Our Healthcare System Isn't Healthy Friday, March 3rd, 2006 Most people are well aware that an estimated 45 million Americans currently do not have healthcare, but is the crisis simply the lack of health insurance or even the cost of health insurance? Is there a bigger underlying problem at the root of our healthcare system? Although the U.S. claims to have the most advanced medicine in the world, government health statistics and peer-reviewed journals are painting a different picture that allopathic medicine often causes more harm than good. People in general have always felt they could trust doctors and the medical profession, but according to the Journal of the American Medical Association in July 2000, iatrogenic death, also known as death from physician error or death from medical treatment, was the third leading cause of death in America and rising, responsible for at least 250,000 deaths per year. Those statistics are considered conservative by many, as the reported numbers only include in-hospital deaths, not injury or disability, and do not include external iatrogenic deaths such as those resulting from nursing home and other private facility treatments, and adverse effects of prescriptions. One recent study estimated the total unnecessary deaths from iatrogenic causes at approximately 800,000 per year at a cost of $282 billion per year, which would make death from American medicine the leading cause of death in our country. Taking from this: Canada will accept that we have 1/10th the American rate . . 80,000. . Car deaths . . or death by automobile 1/10 of that . . So, how many gun deaths have we? .00008 %? Here we must separate out the accidental, the suicidal, and the justifiable or 'righteous deaths . . Would you rather a suicidal killed himself with a gun, or drank his courage, got into his car, and killed himself by running into your family and killing them as well? The inescapable conclusion . . you are 9000 times more likely to be killed by your doctor than with a gun . . Which is why the nanny-staters have spent over $ 2.5 billion on gun control and nothing on doctor control . . Len Miller from Vancouver where 'shots fired' is almost a weekly occurrence . . 'gun control' is working? and a neighbour is recovering from near death experience/10 weeks of intensive care following a 'minor procedure' . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:55:43 -0600 From: Dave Jordan Subject: Military food contracts under fire- The Ottawa Citizen Military food contracts under fire http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=5dd9edca-e35e-4450-b44b-ea0c29b3ea5d&p=1 Defence employees' union questions legality of replacing canteens with fast-food outlets Kathryn May, The Ottawa Citizen Published: Monday, September 17, 2007 Such fast-food outlets as Tim Hortons, Pizza Pizza and Subway are quietly popping up on military bases across the country in sole-source deals that "hand them a captive market," says the Union of National Defence Employees. It wants to challenge the legality of replacing base restaurants, canteens and cafeterias operated by the Canadian Forces Exchange System -- known as CANEX -- with food outlets and franchises without seeking bids from other suppliers. "What bothers us is these private sector companies are selling on crown property to provide services to a captive market, the military troops and their families, without being publicly tendered. It raises the question of how many small businesses would love to put in a bid for such a captive market or say KFC or McDonald's for that matter," said UNDE President John MacLennan who intends to ask Auditor General Sheila Fraser to investigate. "We're challenging these contracts. How can one arm of a department be exempt from contracting rules, the Federal Accountability Act, and fair competition? At the end of the day, they all answer to the chief of defence staff who is a public servant." But CANEX, which runs all retail and food services on bases, wings and units, is exempt from the contracting rules that govern National Defence and all other federal departments. CANEX is part of the Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency, which oversees all "non-public property" and is not part of the department. This arms-length agency has 5,000 employees whose mandate is to take care of the "morale and welfare" of military personnel and their families. It answers to a board of directors and comes under the authority of the Chief of Defence Gen. Rick Hillier. CANEX can use federal property for its stores and restaurants and it keeps its revenues to pump into community programs on bases, from babysitting and child care to recreational and sports programs. But Mr. McLennan worries hand-picking franchises and operators will affect the "quality of life" on bases if these fast-food chains are eating into the share of revenues that go back to the bases for community programs. He said many CANEX employees were spouses and children of military personnel and they now have to work for franchises where they make less money than when they worked for CANEX-operated restaurants. But Gerry Mahon, the president of CANEX, said CANEX's food operations are generating record revenues for bases. He wouldn't reveal those numbers, but said CANEX directly contributed $5 million to base programs last year. At the same time, the number of food outlets have increased and the quality of service improved. CANEX operates 41 retail outlets, from grocery to convenience stores, in addition to the 250 concession agreements it has with retailers, from fast food outlets to tailors and hairdressers. He said CANEX does evaluations of what the base needs and wants and selects services and retailers that would be found in similar sized "progressive" communities. Tim Hortons is popular among the military and opened its first outlet on a base more than 13 years ago. There are now nine Tim Hortons on bases, in addition to one at the Kandahar base in Afghanistan. CANEX used to operate the Tim Hortons in Petawawa, which was recently closed and replaced with a larger drive-thru owned by a local franchisee. He argued CANEX wouldn't be able to get the services it wants if these concession contracts were thrown open to competition. "We aren't talking about taxpayers' money. This is money generated by the people (on bases) and we're returning that money to deliver day-to-day morale and welfare programs for them across Canada." He said CANEX is developing a national food services program so the fare, service and quality are consistent whether stationed in Halifax or Esquimault. He said the old model, which relied on Canex operated or locally-run stores, isn't "sustainable" and wasn't generating the money to provide the services needed on bases. "These franchises are the most effective way to deal with changing demands and expectations in our communities. On our own we couldn't do it and replicate those services," said Mr. Mahon. He said CANEX operates like any developer who wants to fill a shopping mall with the mix of tenants that will generate the most revenue and traffic for other stores. Tim Hortons, Subway and Pizza Pizza pay CANEX going market rates to set up shop on bases and that money is plowed back into recreational and other community programs at bases. But Mr. McLennan doesn't buy it. He questions how CANEX could be making more money for community programs when it has to share profits with these franchises and operators that used to go back to the bases. CANEX has negotiated a variety of different concession agreements for its food outlets. Some are operated by Canex, some by franchisees and others are run by third party operators like Aramark, a large international food and hospitality service manager. Mr. Mahon noted that CANEX sought four requests for proposals when it hired Aramark. Alan Williams, a procurement expert and former assistant deputy minister at National Defence who was responsible for procurement, said CANEX has to ensure its deals are beyond reproach so they don't face such criticism about its contracting. "The fact they are not bound by the legislative and regulatory framework that surrounds all other federal procurement does not exempt them from doing business in a prudent and cost-effective manner," said Mr. Williams. The union, however, isn't quibbling about fast-food fare on bases, saying military personnel can make their own food choices. Mr. Mahon said the concession agreements also include provisions for the restaurants to offer healthy choices, no trans-fats and environmentally-friendly operations. © The Ottawa Citizen 2007 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:08:16 -0600 From: Linda J Freefallcrusader Subject: Letter to Editor re: A policeman's policeman Sent (not published) in reply to the story at: http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/MacAdam_Pat/2007/09/16/4500223-sun.html - ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda J Freefallcrusader Date: Sunday, September 16, 2007 8:08 pm Subject: Letter to Editor re: A policeman's policeman To: feedback@ott.sunpub.com WOW! A voice of sanity from out of the murky waters. Perhaps Chief Vernon White will open ears and eyes if he heeds the comment: "A ban on handguns and a gun registry do diddly squat against the proliferation of knives. Is a knife not a concealed weapon as is a handgun?" Seems a lot of Canadians need to do likewise. I say that as not only a firearms owner, but also as a wife, mother, and grandmother who has seen times change, and NOT for the better. Guns and knives are "tools" and do nothing criminal or malicious on their own. People associatiate 'gangs' with them for that very reason, because they are "status symbols," and symbols do not kill, people do. Even suicides may have more using a gun than a knife, but even more proliferous than guns is the use of hangings by rope. Yet one doesn't even consider that maybe we should "ban ropes." Ditto - more sanity - with the comment on volunteering "that better deployment of personnel may be one answer..... A cop on foot, on beats that vary, is both reassuring and a deterrent." Ask anyone whose been around awhile "what was different years ago from now," and they will tell you they had cops on foot, walking the beat, and people actually respected them and looked up to them and crime was rarely 'visible.' I've said to others many times that they must get the cops "out of the cars" and "on foot - visible" if they want to deter crime, AND if they want to bring their image back up to where it once was. Last but not least, you do not mention that immigration needs to be curbed and controlled. "Gangs" did not just happen. If one cares to look close enough, you find that with the increase in immigration, and the multi-cultural politically correct crap of letting these countries 'bring their country here' instead of insisting they assimilate into Canada's ways, we get what we permitted. As with the recent voting and the 'head-covering' issue, either they should "be Canadian" or they should go home if they don't like it. Every immigrant in a gang should be deported, as should anyone who refuses to identify themselves properly "as Canadians do" (or they should NOT be permitted to vote period). Linda Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:15:27 -0600 From: Linda J Freefallcrusader Subject: Vancouver Sun Letters - Shoot back... Throw the book http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/letters/story.html?id=748c6498-cf2b-405d-b6d7-56aac1c0f51e You could shoot back in the Wild Wild West LetterPublished: Monday, September 17, 2007 Re: Shootings show this is still the Wild Wild West, Voice of the People, Sept. 13 Letter writer Barry O'Regan states that British Columbia is still like the Wild Wild West, but I strongly disagree. The Wild Wild West was a much safer place. The law-abiding citizens had the means to shoot back and defend themselves. These days, we are just victims ducking for cover. It's time for the government to give us back the right to defend ourselves, making this a safer place. Scott Mackenzie North Vancouver (c) The Vancouver Sun 2007 - ------------------------------ http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/letters/story.html?id=14a6bbf4-8970-47e3-8bf6-778fc728ff2c Throw the book at criminals with guns LetterPublished: Monday, September 17, 2007 Re: Shooting near schools targets biker, Sept. 12 The way to resolve the issue of gangs using guns is quite straightforward. For possession of an unregistered gun: A $5,000 fine, confiscation of the gun and six months in jail, no parole. For possession of an unregistered gun with bullets in the chamber: Two years jail, no parole. Carrying a gun in public: Five years. Threatening with a gun: 10 years. Shooting someone: 15 years. Double all sentences when the gun is pointed at a police officer. If you want to clean up the streets, you need to use a broom, and current laws won't do it. Max Leggett New Westminster (c) The Vancouver Sun 2007 - ---------------------------------------------------- Letters to Editor... Email your letter (maximum 200 words) to; sunletters@png.canwest.com No attachments please - - or fax it to 604-605-2522 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:49:32 -0600 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Premier shares blame, beaten man's kin says- TheStar Premier shares blame, beaten man's kin says http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/256973 First Nation protesters who knocked builder unconscious 'weren't youths,' says angry brother Sep 15, 2007 04:30 AM Peter Edwards Staff Reporter CALEDONIA–A building contractor is undergoing tests in hospital to look for brain damage after he was clubbed on the head by a First Nations protester, the man's brother said. "I believe that my brother was one strike away from being killed," an emotional Joe Gualtieri said yesterday near the building site where Sam Gualtieri was beaten unconscious Thursday. He wants Premier Dalton McGuinty to shoulder some of the responsibility for a simmering native protest that has hobbled construction in this new community outside Hamilton. Joe Gualtieri held up photos of his brother's bloodied face and said, "I would like the premier to look at these pictures and tell me that he's protecting my family." A meeting was planned last night at Six Nations to discuss the incident while local residents said they plan to renew protests over native occupation of housing sites. He said his brother found a First Nations flag attached to the roof of a home being built for his daughter. Later in the day, he returned to the site and clashed with First Nations protesters he found inside. First Nations spokespeople said yesterday they believe the protesters were defending themselves. The OPP is investigating. The occupation was set to end peacefully Thursday when the altercation with Sam Gualtieri began. The builder's crew said he was attacked as he ordered the Indian youths to leave the partly built home. Aboriginals said they occupied the southern Ontario site because developers had broken a promise to learn more about their new development protocols. The site is just kilometres away from a housing development targeted by a contentious Six Nations occupation for more than a year and a half. OPP Const. Paul Wright said Gualtieri remained in serious condition in hospital yesterday. His brother said he had a broken nose and bruised skull. Wright said no arrests had been made but police were "working around the clock" on the case. Joe Gualtieri said his brother was attacked by adults. "They were not youths," he said. "There were more than three involved and they repeatedly hit him – even when he was unconscious." He said he expects his brother will be able to identify the attackers in photographs once he regains full consciousness. During a bedside visit, he said his brother "nodded when I said, 'Can you identify if we show pictures?' " The natives were maintaining their protest yesterday at the housing site, watched by police. With files from Canadian Press ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:39:49 -0600 From: News@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Explicit voice mail demeaning, Wills jury hears- TheStar Explicit voice mail demeaning, Wills jury hears http://www.thestar.com/GTA/Crime/article/257488 Nick Pron Courts Bureau A former Toronto police officer has been accused of trying to "demean and degrade" the memory of a woman he is accused of killing by playing sexually explicit voice mail messages she left for him, a Newmarket trial heard Monday. Prosecutor Jeffrey Pearson made the comment just before 15 voice mails were played for the six men and six women deciding the fate of Richard Wills, 50, on a charge of first-degree murder in the Feb. 15, 2002 death of Linda Mariani, 40. Pearson said the crown was "happy to concede" that Mariani left the undated messages for Wills, telling Justice Michelle Fuerst some of the messages were quite explicit and playing them in court would "unnecessarily demean and degrade her." But Raj Napal, the lawyer representing the retired 25-year veteran of the force, said it was necessary that all the tapes be played, even those with a highly charged sexual nature. "That's her talking about me," Wills testified later, telling Napal: "It's very unfortunate they have to be played but you need to hear the truth from her. So unfortunately they have to be played." It was at that point that Wills, as he has done constantly throughout his five days on the stand, then started talking on his own. This time it was to the jurors. "You're not my friends," he began to say about their decision on his guilt or innocence. "You're not even people I know." Fuerst cut him off before he could continue, telling him: "This is a trial, Mr. Wills, not a television show," then reminding him it was the fourth time that morning that she had to warn him not to speak up on his own. The jurors followed the tapes played on loudspeakers from a transcript, not looking at Wills who either looked at the ceiling, eyes closed, or blew his nose at the last message he said he got the day before her death. Wills is expected to testify, either later Monday or Tuesday, about how Mariani "passed away," as he has described her death, after slipping on the stairs and hitting her head on the floor. He hid the body in a garbage bin, and buried it behind a fake wall, intending to take the remains later to Wasaga Beach, where the two had a pact to be buried together, Napal said earlier in the trial. It's the theory of prosecutors Pearson and Harold Dale that Wills was angry with Mariani when she wouldn't leave her husband after he had separated from his wife, hit Mariani on the head with a baseball bat, choked her with skipping rope and then hid the body behind a fake wall in his basement to cover up his crime. He surrendered to police four months after her death. The trial continues. Additional Story Links; Edited excerpts of Wills' phone messages (June, 2007) http://media.thestar.com/audio/richardwillsmessages.mp3 Officer left messages for slain mistress Sep 17, 2007 02:23 PM http://www.thestar.com/News/article/226844 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:21:50 -0700 From: Christopher di Armani Subject: Re: PGP on digest At 10:00 AM 2007-09-17, you wrote: > > I think its high time we considered a PGP system of communicating to this > > chat, digest etc. > >I disagree with the above statement for several reasons. One is that most >subscribers would find PGP too much hassle. Another is that those who don't >would include our government monitors, who would have the keys to the digest >either openly or by subterfuge. >The main reason I believe we must not use encryption is that we must remain >an open and transparent forum, available to those members of the public, >including students and yes even our monitors who might over time and >exposure come to understand the issues and see the rationality of our >arguments. Clive, I believe, is 100% correct. A public forum is not the place for encryption, and as he so clearly points out there would be no way to ever ensure "they" are not able to access what is written. All we would succeed in doing is alienating those who we want to reach. >That is not to say that action groups who correspond off list shouldn't use >PGP or some other form of encryption. I feel it is essential that they do. Again, I completely agree. PRIVATE communication is where PRIVACY, that thing governments abhor, is desired and I believe required. ALL private communication should be encrypted, not just that which a person feels is "sensitive". To me the two are the same. If I want the whole world to read something, I'll write it here on the digest, or write an article for the newspapers. Everything else is nobody's but mine and my intend recipient's. Period. Yours in Liberty, Christopher di Armani christopher@diArmani.com http://www.diArmani.com Check out the latest from Katey Montague at http://www.YouTube.com/kateysfirearmsfacts ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:33:18 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Perhaps ? To: The Province Cc: Joey Thompson , Oppal Oppal , Wally Craig , David Toner Subject: Global TV poll - Public confidence in justice! Date: September 17, 2007 19:14:49 PDT To: sandra@familiesagainstcrime.org, nina@familiesagainstcrime.org Reply-To: david@familiesagainstcrime.org Good Evening, I hope everyone took note of the lead story on Global News today; an IPSOS REID poll commissioned by Global had some not so surprising results to many of us. A full 90% of Canadians polled stated that they had no faith or confidence in our current Judicial System. Only 7% had confidence in Canadian judges. The police generally got an approval rating, with 69% of those polled in favour. These numbers speak to the true feelings of the general public, and unlike STATS Canada numbers have not been "politically filtered". The follow up story illustrated clearly that the judicial leniency shown to offenders by BC judges is counterproductive. Xiao Zhang, paroled recently after serving 4 months of an 11 month sentence for running down a tourist (then fleeing custody), was arrested yet again on new charges. Was this not the fellow who stated at his parole hearing that he would make sure not to re-offend, since he "didn't like jail'? Come on people, how many of these cases does it take? I believe that its time we, as decent, law abiding Canadian citizens consider that these Judges were appointed by the current Liberal and former NDP governments. Here's a rhetorical question; What does it take for a vote of no confidence in our Provincial Legislature? Please feel free to reply. David Toner Public Affairs Coordinator F.A.C.T. - ----------- The Editor, The Province, Sir, Perhaps you might run this? forwarded by Len Miller Vancouver ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #808 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:d.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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