From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #838 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, October 4 2007 Volume 10 : Number 838 In this issue: Why We Hunt Re: Why We Hunt Re: Guns stolen in home invasion Fw: Border guards' union upset over gun training,CP 25/09/07 G & M Dave Tomlinson Sept 25 2007 RIP looking for a link Voice of 'Pecksniffs'? JPFO ANNOUNCES "GOODY GUNS" FOR KIDS Re: On MMP - Not gun politics Re: City Enacts Gun Offender Registry Re: JPFO ANNOUNCES "GOODY GUNS" FOR KIDS Freedom of Information Request to the C.F.C Re: looking for a link [COLUMN] Trap set for Liberals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:21:45 -0700 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Why We Hunt In response to the irrationality and emotional rhetoric of the anti-hunters, I suggest that in order to formulate an intellectual response that is hard to rebut, hunters get a copy of: "Meditations on Hunting" by Jose Ortega Y Gasset ISBN 684 - 12774 - 1 The bad news is that it is out of print and you will have to track down a copy from an antiquarian book seller on the net. Often quoted by the late Jeff Cooper, Ortega does an excellent job of justifying and explaining the rationale behind hunting, not only to the hunter, but to his detractors. Some of the posters on the CFD are doing an excellent job in their own right, but it helps to have the wisdom of a great philosophical mind as a resource. Todd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:50:10 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Why We Hunt - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Birch" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 2:21 PM Subject: Why We Hunt > In response to the irrationality and emotional rhetoric of the > anti-hunters, > I suggest that in order to formulate an intellectual response that is hard > to rebut, hunters get a copy of: > > "Meditations on Hunting" by Jose Ortega Y Gasset ISBN 684 - 12774 - 1 > The bad news is that it is out of print and you will have to track down a > copy from an antiquarian book seller on the net. > > Often quoted by the late Jeff Cooper, Ortega does an excellent job of > justifying and explaining the rationale behind hunting, not only to the > hunter, but to his detractors. > > Some of the posters on the CFD are doing an excellent job in their own > right, but it helps to have the wisdom of a great philosophical mind as a > resource. > > Todd Well I dont know why most people hunt but I hunted for the challenge, and the meat was a byproduct of a successful challenge...... Of course not to say it wasnt exciting at times ,and gave me tons of pleasure to have a good dog and watch him work a stubborn pheasant or grouse . Actually that was the best part of the hunt, just to watch a well trained bird dog work. Retrieving waterfowl was another satisfying experience, working with a trained retriever. Plus the exercise and cameradery with my buddies,that those who dont hunt will NEVER experience. Ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:56:20 -0600 From: wmartind@telusplanet.net Subject: Re: Guns stolen in home invasion > > The stolen guns included rifles and pistols. > > Ammunition was also stolen. All firearms are believed > > to be registered, Rattee said. > > Makes ya wonder how they KNEW which home to hit ? > ed/ontario > I see what you're implying - that info leaked from the registry may have let the perps know where the owners lived and what they had, but it could be that the baddies merely tailed the owners home from the range with nefarious intent... The "tail home", if that's what happened, could have happened at any previous date, followed by a "get my friends", "plan the hit", and "get the guns"... W ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:04:34 -0300 From: jim hill Subject: Fw: Border guards' union upset over gun training,CP 25/09/07 G & M To the G&M - ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hill" To: "The Editor Toronto Globe and Mail" Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:51 AM Subject: Border guards' union upset over gun training ,CP 25 September 2007 carried in the Globe and Mail > To the editor, > > Ron Moran, National President of the Customs and Excise Union has offered > a typical union response to the "relatively high" number of officers who > are flunking the firearms training program. > > He is concerned it may jeopardize their careers. Wow what a surprise. > The union fights to ensure their officers are armed because they do not > feel safe at their workplace. Solution? Give these officers a quick > condensed version of a course the RCMP takes six months to teach their > cadets. The border guards would pick the training up if it was given to > them in it's entirety early in their careers, preferrably during their > original training in the same manner young police cadets are trained. > > You cannot take people that have mixed feelings about firearms and try to > train them to a high standard in a short period of time. > > Mr. Moran would do well to look at who pushed so hard to be armed as you > have to be careful what you wish for. Any job that a person requires a > firearm for also requires that the people be trained to a high standard. > As in a police force , failure to meet those standards is also a failure > to meet the requirements for the job. > > Will we now here a cry from Mr. Moran that the people that fail to meet > the requirements for duty be exempt from them and perhaps not carry a > firearm, thus putting the burden on those who do meet the standards. This > would mean that the failing officers would have to be exempt from certain > duties which would have an effect on their income. > > Jim Hill > Fletchers Lake, NS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:02:00 -0600 From: "avon brown" Subject: Dave Tomlinson Sept 25 2007 RIP Sorry if this is a re-post. - ----------------------------- ????????????????? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:59:13 -0400 From: Paul Chicoine Subject: looking for a link I am looking for an online link for the C-68 text, any suggestions. I've come across a fellow who swears high and low that he doesn't have to carry his PAL with him when he is out hunting. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumpsit Contract - All Rights Reserved - Without Prejudice ___________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:59:19 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Voice of 'Pecksniffs'? To: feedback@canada.com The Editor The Langley Advance, Sir, re; 'barbaric anachronism' by anonymous writer, Like all who wish to slander those law abiding gun owners, (anonymous) chooses inflammatory verbiage. Clearly insulting as he labels not only hunters, but retired conservation officers, police, veterans, collectors and Olympic competition shooters as what did (it) say: Bubbas? Not a Bubba in the crowd . . I say . . . Well, nameless, I strongly disagree. Having served 30 years as a police officer, and having seen my buddies shot by 'bad guys', never once did I blame the gun. How could I, having carried one to save MY life. Seeing a how you missed it, guns actually can SAVE a life. What you and other 'gun nazis' have done, is transposing your fear of guns onto innocent people. Psychiatrists have a name for this . . You have ignored knives, boots, cars, poison, and baseball bats, all of which have been used to kill people. The Oak Bay tragedy should have stilled YOUR rant, but it didn't. Had you come out against murder, you might find more supporters. You may sign me Len Miller veteran Det retired Vancouver Police Department never approach a goat from the front a horse from the rear or a fool from any direction ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:50:11 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: JPFO ANNOUNCES "GOODY GUNS" FOR KIDS ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization October 3, 2007 JPFO ALERT: JPFO ANNOUNCES "GOODY GUNS" FOR KIDS Aaron Zelman, founder and director of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO), unveiled a new program today to counteract the unceasing lies and dangerous propaganda of the victim disarmament (gun control) lobby -- lies and propaganda mostly aimed at a captive audience of children in the public school system, and spread like a disease by the mass media -- while providing hours of wholesome family fun. The program, called "Goody Guns" consists of a special cookie cutter in the shape of a semiautomatic pistol. With the supervision and help of the adults in their lives, boys and girls can turn their own kitchens into "Arsenals of Liberty" by making gun-shaped cookies to keep and share, while absorbing firearms safety lessons the public schools would never teach them, and which the mass media don't want to see being taught. Packed with each Goody Guns cookie cutter are a pair of tiny, toothpick-masted American flags, in case young bakers want to adorn their kitchen creations in honor of a uniquely American idea: an armed citizenry ready to defend itself from foreign invasion or domestic tyranny. Also included are a pair of JPFO's famous "Gran'pa Jack" comic books ( http://www.jpfo.org/gj.htm ) -- appropriately entitled _Gun Control Kills Kids_ and _Do Gun Prohibitionists Have a Mental Health Problem?_ -- that they can read or have read to them, and thoroughly discuss, while the cookies are baking. Once word of it gets out, the Goody Guns program will have the victim disarmers screaming from the housetops, because it addresses young children at pre-verbal level gun-grabbers can't hope to reach. By the time these children are old enough to understand the lies and propaganda being pushed on them, they'll be immune. In any case, the program is bound to drive victim disarmers even crazier than they are already. As to the screaming. JPFO's advice is to give it the attention it deserves. Ignore it. Goody Guns can be used to teach kids elementary gun safety -- eat your Goody Gun from the back end; never point the muzzle at yourself or anbody else -- and, perhaps just as important, convey a liberating message that they're no longer under the mind-control of "political correctness". Some folks will wish to send their kids to school with a brown bag or lunch box containing Goody Guns, severely testing that form of fascism fashionaby called "zero tolerance" and revealing it for what it really is: zero tolerance for basic individual rights protected by the First, Second, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments to the United States Constitution. Other pro-gun organizations may want to use Goody Guns in their programs. Help protect your loved ones and yourself; guard them against "progressive" legislation. Goody Guns may be ordered online at http://www.goodyguns.com or http://www.jpfo.org or simply by calling toll-free 1(800)869-1884. The price is $9.95, postpaid, two for $16.95. Put the gun-haters on the run with your Goody Gun! - - The Liberty Crew ============================================================ Visit our alert archive / sign up to receive email alerts (¯`'..¸(¯`'..¸ http://www.jpfo.org/alerts.htm ¸..'´¯)¸..'´¯) ~~ JPFO mirror site: http://www.jpfo.net ~~ ============================================================ This message was sent by: Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, P.O. Box 270143, Hartford, Wi 53027 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:39:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: On MMP - Not gun politics MMP is a scam... no wonder Liberals is behind this. You're about to crown some lobby dude to be a law maker just because he or she runs the show... Yep, even Wendy the "Crook" can become an MMP and can stay there for life (and big $$$) and she would answer to nobody except the party that puts her in that position. If you think that Conservatives can benefit from this, you're wrong...it can play against them big time as Liberanos are more skilled in politics... MMP is one more step toward dictatorship.... Take a good thought into it. Regards, Vladyslav I support these organizations: www.nfa.ca www.cdnshootingsports.org www.conservative.ca Support Organized Crime - Vote Liberal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:33:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: City Enacts Gun Offender Registry Cannot say more, exactly my thoughts.... At least in US I would fight this using constitution.... 10x <10x@telus.net> wrote: At 10:12 PM 10/1/2007 -0600, you wrote: > >WBALTV.com >City Enacts Gun Offender Registry >POSTED: 5:24 pm EDT October 1, 2007 >http://www.wbaltv.com/news/14246491/detail.html > > >BALTIMORE -- Baltimore city launched a gun offender registry on Monday to >help deal with the city's crime crisis. > >Mayor Shelia Dixon made Baltimore the second city in the nation to launch >such a registry, which means anyone convicted of a gun offense will have to >provide police with a current address, name and a picture with in 48 hours. > >"I want to make Baltimore the toughest city on gun crimes," said Mayor >Sheila Dixon. > >The offenders will have to continue to register every six months for three >years following their conviction or period of incarceration. Failure to do >so would be a violation of probation or parole that is punishable with up to >a year in jail and a $1,000 fine, officials said. That is discrimination. Either this applys to ALL violent offenders or it shouldn't apply to any - guns or no guns. This indicates that the city of Baltimore believes that beatings with baseball bats and stabbings with knives are not nearly as serious as a target shooter who has been charged for a non violent gun offence. It shows that there IS a real bias against gun owners. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:41:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: JPFO ANNOUNCES "GOODY GUNS" FOR KIDS Guns and kids is a tough mix to sell. I would go with safety education, but not cookies. I know, "come to the dark side... we have cookies" is funny, but you have to be smarter than anti and rule the show so soccer moms would line up to bring kids to your classes. Joe Gingrich wrote: ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization October 3, 2007 JPFO ALERT: JPFO ANNOUNCES "GOODY GUNS" FOR KIDS Aaron Zelman, founder and director of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO), unveiled a new program today to counteract the unceasing lies and dangerous propaganda of the victim disarmament (gun control) lobby -- lies and propaganda mostly aimed at a captive audience of children in the public school system, and spread like a disease by the mass media -- while providing hours of wholesome family fun. The program, called "Goody Guns" consists of a special cookie cutter in the shape of a semiautomatic pistol. With the supervision and help of the adults in their lives, boys and girls can turn their own kitchens into "Arsenals of Liberty" by making gun-shaped cookies to keep and share, while absorbing firearms safety lessons the public schools would never teach them, and which the mass media don't want to see being taught. Packed with each Goody Guns cookie cutter are a pair of tiny, toothpick-masted American flags, in case young bakers want to adorn their kitchen creations in honor of a uniquely American idea: an armed citizenry ready to defend itself from foreign invasion or domestic tyranny. Also included are a pair of JPFO's famous "Gran'pa Jack" comic books ( http://www.jpfo.org/gj.htm ) -- appropriately entitled _Gun Control Kills Kids_ and _Do Gun Prohibitionists Have a Mental Health Problem?_ -- that they can read or have read to them, and thoroughly discuss, while the cookies are baking. Once word of it gets out, the Goody Guns program will have the victim disarmers screaming from the housetops, because it addresses young children at pre-verbal level gun-grabbers can't hope to reach. By the time these children are old enough to understand the lies and propaganda being pushed on them, they'll be immune. In any case, the program is bound to drive victim disarmers even crazier than they are already. As to the screaming. JPFO's advice is to give it the attention it deserves. Ignore it. Goody Guns can be used to teach kids elementary gun safety -- eat your Goody Gun from the back end; never point the muzzle at yourself or anbody else -- and, perhaps just as important, convey a liberating message that they're no longer under the mind-control of "political correctness". Some folks will wish to send their kids to school with a brown bag or lunch box containing Goody Guns, severely testing that form of fascism fashionaby called "zero tolerance" and revealing it for what it really is: zero tolerance for basic individual rights protected by the First, Second, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments to the United States Constitution. Other pro-gun organizations may want to use Goody Guns in their programs. Help protect your loved ones and yourself; guard them against "progressive" legislation. Goody Guns may be ordered online at http://www.goodyguns.com or http://www.jpfo.org or simply by calling toll-free 1(800)869-1884. The price is $9.95, postpaid, two for $16.95. Put the gun-haters on the run with your Goody Gun! - - The Liberty Crew ============================================================ Visit our alert archive / sign up to receive email alerts (¯`'..¸(¯`'..¸ http://www.jpfo.org/alerts.htm ¸..'´¯)¸..'´¯) ~~ JPFO mirror site: http://www.jpfo.net ~~ ============================================================ This message was sent by: Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, P.O. Box 270143, Hartford, Wi 53027 I support these organizations: www.nfa.ca www.cdnshootingsports.org www.conservative.ca Support Organized Crime - Vote Liberal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 21:58:01 -0500 From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Freedom of Information Request to the C.F.C For those of you who are curious as to what information the Canadian FIrearms Centre actually has attached to your name you can fill a Freedom of Information request. Here is the form with all the correct questions to ask the CFC: http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/2007/07/FOI_Form_July_07.pdf And here is the address you send it to: Canada Firearms Centre Yves Marineau - Access to Information and Privacy Coordinator 50 O'Connor Street, 10th Floor Ottawa, Ontario K1A 1M6 It is a very quick download and send. All that information for the price of a stamp, envelop, and sheet of paper. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:19:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: looking for a link - --- Paul Chicoine wrote: > I am looking for an online link for the C-68 text, > any suggestions. > I've come across a fellow who swears high and low > that he doesn't have to > carry his PAL with him when he is out hunting. > __________ > Paul Chicoine > Non Assumpsit Contract - All Rights Reserved - > Without Prejudice > ___________________________________________________ Here's a link to the Firearms Act from the DoJ laws website: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showtdm/cs/F-11.6 although the answer you seek is probably not there. This has more to do with Criminal Code of Canada s 91, which requires the licencing of all gun owners. While it doesn't specifically *say* that you must have your license on your person while in possession of a firearm, the practical result of this is that if a cop sees you with a firearm, he's going to want to know if you are properly licensed for the "privilege" of possessing one. The cops would almost certainly seize your firearms until you could provide proof you are. So, if your buddy wants to go out and about without his PAL, he'd better be prepared to surrender his guns to the first flatfoot that comes across him. Yours in LIBERTY! Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 08:29:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [COLUMN] Trap set for Liberals http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Weston_Greg/2007/10/04/4548489.php Trap set for Liberals By GREG WESTON Thu, October 4, 2007 It is hard to imagine how Stephane Dion's political hell could get any worse, but it just did. Bad enough for the Liberal leader that his party is disorganized, destitute, devoid of policy, and demoralized from defeats in all three recent Quebec byelections on the leader's home turf. Add to that the current chaos and controversy at party headquarters and in the leader's office, all to the background chants of a Liberal lynch mob publicly demanding Dion's head. By high noon yesterday, with Gritdom crashing down around its egghead, diehard Liberals were forced to find solace in the belief that the party's fortunes could only improve. Wrong again. In a surprise move, Stephen Harper summoned the media for a rare press conference, put a gun to Dion's head, and cocked the hammer. The prime minister offered the Liberals and the other opposition parties a simple and blunt ultimatum. Either support every major piece of Conservative legislation from now on, or the country will be going to the polls. Harper's announcement essentially offers Dion and the Liberal party the fun choice between likely political suicide in a snap fall election, or a more protracted self-immolation. If Dion's leadership looks weak now, imagine his image as he crawled off to the polls after months of grovelling to the Conservatives' every legislative whim. Either way, Dion has seen the future and it looks a lot like his worst nightmare. A showdown in Parliament over the coming throne speech was already a given, but not a shootout that would kill the government and trigger an election. The speech will set out the government's planned agenda for the months ahead, and is subject to a so-called "vote of confidence" in the Commons. Losing a confidence vote generally brings down the government and sends the country into a general election. In other words, if all three opposition parties voted against the Conservatives' throne speech later this month, Canadians would be going to the polls sometime in late November or early December. Given the state of the Liberal party and Dion's fractured leadership, panic-stricken Grits everywhere have been scrambling for ways to avoid an election, openly warning that a trip to the polls anytime soon could easily turn into their voyage of the damned. The question is how to oppose the government without defeating it, and Harper just made walking that political tightrope a whole lot more precarious. The New Democrats and Bloc Quebecois have all but declared they will oppose the throne speech, no matter what it says. That would leave the Liberals to decide whether the Conservative government lives or dies. The most likely solution is for about half the Liberal MPs to stay home with political flu, allowing the throne speech to pass on the strength of Conservative votes alone. But the prime minister has added a new wrinkle: Henceforth, not only will the throne speech be decided on a vote of confidence, but so will every other major piece of legislation tabled by the Conservatives in the coming months. As Harper put it, "For the opposition, there is a fish or cut bait in this. You can't pass the throne speech one day, and the next day say, "Well we didn't actually mean to do it. "We will take it as an ongoing question of confidence to get those (legislative) things done. "I'm very clear: We have to be able to govern." As Liberals ponder their future, it is suddenly sounding a lot like a creaking trap door. • You can e-mail Greg Weston at greg.weston@sunmedia.ca • Have a letter for the editor? E-mail it to torsun.editor@sunmedia.ca ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #838 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:d.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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