From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #855 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, October 17 2007 Volume 10 : Number 855 In this issue: Fw: FIGHTING MYTHS Re: Gun toting American jailed [US] DC To Get Gun Recovery Unit Gun seizure at Peace Bridge Re: FIGHTING MYTHS [Throne speech] promised actions include... Moose Hunt info "Re: [US][COLUMN] Guns Don't Kill Kids,Irresponsible Adults..." Re: [US] DC To Get Gun Recovery Unit Re: [Throne speech] promised actions include... THRONE SPEECH: Government vows to get tough on crime Re: THRONE SPEECH: Government vows to get tough on crime Re: [Throne speech] promised actions include... POLL [COLUMN] Why abused women stay ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:48:50 -0600 From: Dennis & Hazel Young Subject: Fw: FIGHTING MYTHS - ----- Original Message ----- From: RFOCBC To: RFOCBC Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:29 PM Subject: FIGHTING MYTHS The attached url will lead you to a great Washington Post article about myths - more specifically, how to properly deal with them. We are all familiar with how lies, damned lies, and statistics have created myths that are used to justify government action against gun-owners. Lessons contained in the article show us how to turn the debate around. We must repeat, repeat, repeat the truth - without ever mentioning the lies - until our repetitions overcome the myths created by misinformation. It may take some time, but today's as good as any to make a start. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/03/AR2007090300933_pf.html RFOCBC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:57:03 -0300 From: "Mr." Subject: Re: Gun toting American jailed A BC Provincial court judge determined border guards need warrants / real probable cause to search. Border Services will appeal. 2007.7.19 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Gingrich" To: "Canadian Firearms Digest" Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:37 PM Subject: re: Gun toting American jailed > > Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:46:05 -0400 > From: "ross" > Subject: Gun toting American jailed > > It might be interesting to find out if customs asked him if he had a gun > and > replied no, then they searched. Customs cannot search without a warrant. > This was upheld at the supreme court level two months ago where customs in > a hunch searched a truck drilled holes in it and found six kilo of > marijuana. The judge summarized by saying without a warrant, ALL EVIDENCE > IS DISALLOWED. THE BORDER IS NOT A CHARTER FREE ZONE. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Do Charter rights apply to every individual within Kanukistan, or do they > only apply to gunuine Kanukistani's and landed immigrants to Kanukistan? > > Yours in Tryanny, > Joe Gingrich > White Fox > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:10:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [US] DC To Get Gun Recovery Unit http://www.wusa9.com/news/columnist/blogs/brucejohnson.aspx DC To Get Gun Recovery Unit Written By Bruce Johnson 9NEWS NOW Created:10/14/2007 9:55:13 PM Last Updated:10/15/2007 4:44:26 PM Later this month DC Police Chief Cathy Lanier will put about 30 officers on the streets to try and make a dent in the thousands of illegal handguns that are being used in violent crime in the District. Homicides are up seven percent this year. Assaults with guns have escalated. Chief Lanier was quoted recently as saying "It's ridiculous. There are too many guns out there". The gun recovery unit will be deputized by the federal Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms agency so DC officers will be able to cross jurisdictions to investigate guns that come into the District. Over ten years ago Bruce Johnson interviewed a very young crack cocaine dealer on the street in Southeast who explained candidly, while holding onto his gun, why he was packing and what he would do with the weapon if threatened. To view the video report including the gunman's interview go to Bruce's blog. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:27:27 -0400 From: "ross" Subject: Gun seizure at Peace Bridge The canadian Border guards are once again searching vehicles without obtaining warrants. A recent ruling told the government they cannot do such searches lest they want the case thrown out. Clearly the info has not rtickled down to the minions and thugs who routinely violate the search and seizure laws of our charter. perhaps another ass whopping in court is in order ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:14:16 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: FIGHTING MYTHS - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest (E-mail)" Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:48 PM Subject: Fw: FIGHTING MYTHS > ----- Original Message ----- > From: RFOCBC > To: RFOCBC > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:29 PM > Subject: FIGHTING MYTHS > > The attached url will lead you to a great Washington Post article about > myths - more specifically, how to properly deal with them. We are all > familiar with how lies, damned lies, and statistics have created myths > that > are used to justify government action against gun-owners. > > Lessons contained in the article show us how to turn the debate around. > We > must repeat, repeat, repeat the truth - without ever mentioning the lies - > until our repetitions overcome the myths created by misinformation. It > may > take some time, but today's as good as any to make a start. > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/03/AR2007090300933_pf.html > > RFOCBC QUOTE: "Furthermore, a new experiment by Kimberlee Weaver at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and others shows that hearing the same thing over and over again from one source can have the same effect as hearing that thing from many different people -- the brain gets tricked into thinking it has heard a piece of information from multiple, independent sources, even when it has not. Weaver's study was published this year in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology." This is nothing new ;Goebbels and his propaganda machine used this method on the German people during ww11. After reading this article one has to wonder : "what is truth "??? Do we believe what government tells us or not ? ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:35:14 -0300 From: Rod Regier Subject: [Throne speech] promised actions include... ...repeal the wasteful long gun registry... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:53:56 -0500 From: "Sam M" Subject: Moose Hunt info needed help in researching gear searching for some info ,a life true experience. not some made up commercial idea eg -30 rated (lies) warmest glove & boots goretex - rubber boots 300 win mag ammo in a benelli .300 R1 argo semi auto 200 yards and up thanx take care ppl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:39:14 -0500 From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: "Re: [US][COLUMN] Guns Don't Kill Kids,Irresponsible Adults..." At 01:34 PM 10/16/2007 -0400, Bruce Mills wrote: > >http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301040,00.html > >Guns Don't Kill Kids, Irresponsible Adults With Guns >Do > >Wednesday, October 10, 2007 >By John Lott, Jr. > > >Should your doctor ask your child if you own a gun? > >Guidelines issued by the American Academy of Pediatric >say "yes." > >They warn that "Children are curious even if they’ve >had some sort of firearm training. That’s why parents >taking responsibility for safe gun storage is so >essential.” > >Doctors across the United States are being advised to >interrogate children about mom and dad’s "bad" >behavior. > >It sounds simple enough, but the problem is that the >advice ignores the benefits and exaggerates the costs >of gun ownership. Why are not Pediatric physicians asking children about illegal drug use by the parents, spousal abuse or other anti social behavior? It is strange how highly educated people seem to think that owning a gun transforms a citizen into a raving criminal. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:41:41 -0500 From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: [US] DC To Get Gun Recovery Unit At 02:10 PM 10/16/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >http://www.wusa9.com/news/columnist/blogs/brucejohnson.aspx > >DC To Get Gun Recovery Unit > >Written By Bruce Johnson >9NEWS NOW >Created:10/14/2007 9:55:13 PM >Last Updated:10/15/2007 4:44:26 PM > > >Later this month DC Police Chief Cathy Lanier will put >about 30 officers on the streets to try and make a >dent in the thousands of illegal handguns that are >being used in violent crime in the District. > >Homicides are up seven percent this year. Assaults >with guns have escalated. Chief Lanier was quoted >recently as saying "It's ridiculous. There are too >many guns out there". Too bad they don't try to make a dent in the number of criminals on the streets who are willing to use a gun or other means to intimidate, threaten, injure, or kill other citizens. Too bad the attitude is "Get the gun off the street" and NOT "get the habitual criminal off the street". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:43:10 -0500 From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: [Throne speech] promised actions include... At 08:35 PM 10/16/2007 -0300, you wrote: > > >...repeal the wasteful long gun registry... > Too bad it is not a rewrite of Canada's entire gun control law. One that gets ride of the incredibly expensive and rather useless Canadian FIrearms Centre, and the C.F.O.s ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:07:35 -0600 From: Dennis & Hazel Young Subject: THRONE SPEECH: Government vows to get tough on crime Government vows to get tough on crime, terrorism: throne speech Richard Foot - CanWest News Service - Tuesday, October 16, 2007 http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics/story.html?id=86925b37-c856-44b7-9fc4-f0d34c7f7f23 New legislation to fight crime and terrorism will dominate the government's agenda in the coming session of Parliament, and could precipitate an election if the Conservatives' hard-nosed justice strategy proves unpalatable to the opposition parties. Before the throne speech was even read Tuesday evening, the Conservative government had already served notice on the Commons order paper of its intent to reintroduce security certificates, a controversial anti-terror measure that allows the government to easily detain non-citizens suspected of terrorist links. The provision was introduced as a temporary measure by the Liberals after the 9-11 attacks, but expired last year. It was later ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada and became the subject of a stormy political debate in the Commons. The government has vowed ever since to bring security certificates back, and in Tuesday's throne speech, it said it would do so in a way that satisfies the concerns of the country's highest court. The speech, read by Gov._Gen. Michaelle Jean, also said the government will bring back many of the anti-crime bills that failed to pass in the previous session of Parliament. Legislation to raise the age of sexual consent, increase penalties for impaired drivers, bring in stricter bail provisions and mandatory prison sentences for gun crimes would all be rolled into a single comprehensive bill, to be called "Tackling Violent Crime." It would be "immediately" introduced in Parliament, the speech promised. As part of what it calls a "safer communities strategy," the government also plans to strengthen the Youth Criminal Justice Act, although few details were provided. Also mentioned were new initiatives on curbing elder abuse and identity theft, as well awarding police new powers to deal with drug dealers. There would also be funds for the recruitment of 2,500 new police officers, the speech pledged. The throne speech also repeated a long-standing Conservative promise to repeal the long-gun registry. "Canadians feel less safe today and rightly worry about the security of their neighbourhoods," the speech said. "There is no greater responsibility for a government than to protect this right to safety and security." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:15:22 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: THRONE SPEECH: Government vows to get tough on crime - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 1:07 AM Subject: THRONE SPEECH: Government vows to get tough on crime > Government vows to get tough on crime, terrorism: throne speech > Richard Foot - CanWest News Service - Tuesday, October 16, 2007 > http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics/story.html?id=86925b37-c856-44b7-9fc4-f0d34c7f7f23 > > New legislation to fight crime and terrorism will dominate the > government's > agenda in the coming session of Parliament, and could precipitate an > election if the Conservatives' hard-nosed justice strategy proves > unpalatable to the opposition parties. > > Before the throne speech was even read Tuesday evening, the Conservative > government had already served notice on the Commons order paper of its > intent to reintroduce security certificates, a controversial anti-terror > measure that allows the government to easily detain non-citizens suspected > of terrorist links. > I dont know what to say about this? > The provision was introduced as a temporary measure by the Liberals after > the 9-11 attacks, but expired last year. It was later ruled > unconstitutional > by the Supreme Court of Canada and became the subject of a stormy > political > debate in the Commons. > > The government has vowed ever since to bring security certificates back, > and > in Tuesday's throne speech, it said it would do so in a way that satisfies > the concerns of the country's highest court. > > The speech, read by Gov._Gen. Michaelle Jean, also said the government > will > bring back many of the anti-crime bills that failed to pass in the > previous > session of Parliament. > > Legislation to raise the age of sexual consent, Good move lets get our children out of the middle ages increase penalties for > impaired drivers, Drug impairment as well as alcohol impairment should be addressed~!! bring in stricter bail provisions No bail for crimes against persons and mandatory prison > sentences for gun crimes would all be rolled into a single comprehensive > bill, to be called "Tackling Violent Crime." It would be "immediately" > introduced in Parliament, the speech promised. This is BAD news for the RFC~!!!!Just think about Bruce Montague , Jonathin Login etc . who have ALL been falsley accused of "gun " crimes ? They would all be in jail now. So now if you are convicted of "improper storage "? you WILL GO TO JAIL.No get out of jail free card. I dont believe this is the answer to the lawful posession of firearms. This is an omnibus bill that does NOT recognize minor gun infractions by lawful gun owners. > > As part of what it calls a "safer communities strategy," the government > also > plans to strengthen the Youth Criminal Justice Act, although few details > were provided. Get rid of it altogether , its a Lieberal thing.Do the crime ? do the time ~!!!!! No more rehabilitating violent criminals, put them away for a very, very, long time. Bring back the lash . Bring back the death penalty where ther is absolutely no doubt of the perps guilt .(DNA, witnesses) > > Also mentioned were new initiatives on curbing elder abuse and identity > theft, as well awarding police new powers to deal with drug dealers. There > would also be funds for the recruitment of 2,500 new police officers, the > speech pledged. The police ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH "POLICE POWERS "all someone has to do is accuse you of dealing in illegal substances and you will be "swatted " like a fly on the wall. Ya I know they need to get a warrant , Just how many warrants have been issued on false information to date ?I would bet there are very many. > > The throne speech also repeated a long-standing Conservative promise to > repeal the long-gun registry. Now this is a step in the right direction ~! BUT where is there ANY mention of "property rights "? Seems that has been intentionally omitted. I brought this up prior to the last election , on here , and was told to wait until they were elected to see "Property rights " brought up in parliament ./ IM STILL WAITING~!! If the CPC does repeal the long gun registry, IN ITS ENTIRETY~!, then they will have my full support, but if they leave some of the more onerous Lieberal provisions ensconced in law , they will have done NOTHING for the RFC. It MUST be repealed forever , as long as the sun shines and rivers flow. > > "Canadians feel less safe today and rightly worry about the security of > their neighbourhoods," the speech said. "There is no greater > responsibility > for a government than to protect this right to safety and security." > This appears to me to be a typical Lieberal TYPE of Throne Speech. Telling the public what they want to hear and buying them off with their own money (Tax rebates or reductions) If an election is forced by the BLOC-HEADS I`m sure it will p*ss off the rest of Canada and ensure a CPC majority. Nobody WANTS an election now; we`ve had it , is the talk on the street. Just my views and honest opinion.Constructive comments welcome.Keep all others to yourself. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:40:44 -0400 From: Paul Chicoine Subject: Re: [Throne speech] promised actions include... Interesting, in the media, of all the moves, it is said that could trigger an early election, not once was the firearms registry mentioned. One wonders if the Liberals would want to fight an election over the gun registry and its boondoggle price tag. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "10x" <10x@telus.net> To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [Throne speech] promised actions include... > At 08:35 PM 10/16/2007 -0300, you wrote: > > > > > >...repeal the wasteful long gun registry... > > > > Too bad it is not a rewrite of Canada's entire gun control law. > One that gets ride of the incredibly expensive and rather useless Canadian > FIrearms Centre, and the C.F.O.s > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 17, 2007 1:26 am From: "Robert LaCasse" Subject: POLL Go to www.cnn.com/glenbeck and vote ASAP Every sane American who wants to own a gun should be able to -- and nobody should be able to take that right away. Do you agree or disagree? - -- Triad Productions-Fantalla®~EZine~ParaNovel National Association of Assault Research (http://members.fortunecity.com/vampire34/htmlconc.html) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:59:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [COLUMN] Why abused women stay http://www.straightgoods.ca/ViewFeature7.cfm?REF=523 Why abused women stay Abusive men say they will kill women, their children or their favorite animals, if they try to leave. Dateline: Monday, October 15, 2007 by Ginette Petitpas Taylor Anyone who has ever wondered why abused women don't just leave their partners should talk to abused women in rural areas. Deborah Doherty and Jennie Hornosty of Fredericton have done just that. Their study, funded by the Canada Firearms Centre, looked at the experiences of rural abused women. Their research would be of great interest to New Brunswick even if it had been conducted in another part of Canada, but it was done mostly with New Brunswick women. With half of us living in non-urban areas, and with New Brunswick having such a high rate of gun-related deaths and spousal murder-suicides, we should be paying attention to their results and recommendations. New study reports that rural abusers threaten their spouses with firearms and with threats or actual harm to animals. Fortunately the two researchers have embarked on a short tour of the province — soon in Caraquet, Cambpellton and Woodstock — to let rural New Brunswick know about their findings. We can imagine some of the problems particular to living in a rural area: isolation, poverty and transportation. Many abused women also mentioned police response times — one said when you see two police cars going in one direction in a rural community, you know you can do anything you want in the other direction. Many also talked about how traditional values, strong in some rural areas, mean that women are supposed to be submissive and that reporting abuse would stigmatize them and their families. And then there are the guns and animals, both frequently present in rural areas, and, the researchers found, both used as instruments of control, intimidation, and abuse in family violence situations. Even crisis and victim service workers who participated in the study were amazed at the responses of abused women when asked about the use of firearms and threats to animals. The workers later strongly recommended that these questions become standard on risk assessment and in-take forms. Almost half of the abused women said that their partner had threatened to harm animals as a means of controlling her. "He would threaten to kill the dog, and describe the dog's death very violently, it was really graphic." Most said their partner had actually harmed or killed an animal. It was common for the women to delay seeking help out of fear for their animals, and because there is no safe haven for these animals. One woman who owned horses explained that when her partner's abusive behaviour towards her became intolerable, she would end up staying or going back because she had to feed the horses. "Where can you go with a horse or chickens or sheep?" she asked rhetorically. In homes where firearms were present, two-thirds of the women said knowing about the firearms made them more fearful for their safety. Most of the women said it affected their decision to ask for help, especially if the firearms were not licensed, registered or locked. Indeed, even some family, neighbours and service providers who witness abuse were made too scared to call the police by the knowledge that firearms were present. Some spoke of actual assaults with a gun, including rape with a gun to their head. But threats can be subtly effective in the context, as is the fact that a gun is always loaded, or always on top of the fridge. As one focus group participant said, "All he has to do is look over at the bed and she knows there is rifle underneath and that she had better do what he says." In a province with a "hunting" or "gun culture", there can be a cavalier attitude to firearms, to their storage and to their potential lethality even where there is family violence and other problems. Incredibly, the study found that unless a domestic violence incident specifically involved a firearm, police don't usually search for and seize the firearms in a home where they have answered a call. Some rural abused women said they do not trust that their problem will be taken seriously if they disclose the abuse. Others said that when they do disclose firearms misuse to service providers, often there is no follow-up. Some did not dare tell police or others about the guns in the home because they were not sure the guns would be taken away. If they were, she was in for a beating, and if they weren't, it could get even worse. Some women were frightened of calling the police because so many rural people have scanners to listen to police calls. Given perceived police response times, it's not just the shame of their neighbours knowing their business, it's the fear that a neighbour will tell the abuser. Some imagined that if police came to take away his guns, it would end in a standoff. Dr Doherty and Dr Hornosty heard heart-wrenching stories of women who stayed out of fear for their lives. They heard over and over that if she tried to leave, he had said he would shoot and bury her and no one would ever know or even hear the shot, given where they lived. Some women stayed because their children were so attached to the animals that were being threatened. Women who eventually left said that some interveners told them they were stupid for having hesitated because of animals. When you are being terrorized and trying to react sanely to an insane situation, you don't need "helpers" to tell you that you are stupid. Even people who understand about women and kids can lack concern about pets, or don't believe anybody would hurt an animal. Add mental health problems and drugs including alcohol to the situations above, and you can imagine the paralyzing fear that women live with on some farms and rural homes in the province. We have much to do to reach out to them. Ginette Petitpas-Taylor, of Moncton, is Chairperson of the New Brunswick Advisory Council on the Status Of Women. Her column on women's issues appears in the Times & Transcript every Thursday. She may be reached via e-mail at the eddress beloq. Related addresses: eMail 1: acswcccf@gnb.ca ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V10 #855 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:d.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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