Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, March 1 2008 Volume 11 : Number 250 In this issue: Re: Bull, no question Letter to National Post (just sent) The Libs & Cadman Voting advice for gun owners Re: Robber makes off with guns Re: Re; Michael Bryant in Caledonia RE: Bull, no question Re: Voting advice for gun owners Re: Voting advice for gun owners Re: Fees for firearm licence renewal until May 2009 Re: Cocaine The Public - gotta love 'em! Re: 12(6) Question Re: Re; Michael Bryant in Caledonia Re: The Libs & Cadman Re: New crime bill is now law after two years ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:22:49 -0800 (PST) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: Bull, no question Liberal minority = semi auto ban as NDP will support it as well as probably Bloc will do... That's the situation.... Al Muir wrote: > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:21:44 -0500 > From: "D R Goodbrand" > Subject: Re: Bull, no question > > "Al Muir" said....... >> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:50:13 -0400 >> From: "Al Muir" >> Subject: Bull, no question >> >> Vote Conservative? You have got to be kidding. >> >> Al > > > I don't know whether to laugh or what Al. This is a joke ? Right ? Yes they are a joke. > > IDK where you live Al but let's assume it's Quebec so we can include the > Bloc in your choices > > Of the Federal Parties likely to run candidates in the next general > election > please let us all know which of the following do you suggest is a better > choice for gun owners. I'd love to know and I'm sure I'm not alone > > Bloc Quebecois > Green Party > NDP > Liberal Party of Canada > Conservative Party of Canada > none of the above > > Which one will you be supporting Al ? None of the above ?. Certainly NOT > voting is an option. Bingo on the last two, none of the above or not at all. At present the best option for the about 3 million of us that do not have a license is another minority stalemate. For the most part the law is not being inforced. If the CON-servatives pass C-24 it will be. Without a majority they cannot get it passed. In any event why would I vote for a bunch that plans to jail me for not having a license. Because the other ones have the same plan? Al ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:07:18 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to National Post (just sent) With contributions by Pat Warner and Garry B. Danger Pays ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, It seems to me that the full page image of a man holding a cocked and loaded handgun behind his back must be a depiction of the criminal element rather than a trained security person. With the safety in the 'off' position, and his finger on the trigger, this man has learned his firearm handling "skills" from television, and media depictions such as the one he appears in. Amoung highly trained military and security personnel, a negligent discharge, the kind that might kill an unintended victim, is a career ending event. Amoung the criminal element, innocent victims are simply business as usual. Statistics Canada indicates that in recent years 98.79 percent of all firearms used in crimes were not registered to the accused murderer and 97.86 percent of murders were committed by a person who did not hold a valid firearms licence. It follows then that the criminals do not take the requisite safety training that police, military, private security agents and even law abiding target shooters have drilled into them constantly. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:53:50 -0800 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: The Libs & Cadman To: "Andrea Johnson" Kind of ironic that the Libs could possibly topple Harper's minority CPC government over the alleged "life insurance" offer to deceased MP Chuck Cadman in order to secure his vote that would have toppled the Liberal minority government and forced an election ..... Unable to force an election through an issue like the budget or Afghanistan, the Liberals resort to posthumous dirt digging. Just as they like to trot out the corpses of the 14 women slain at L'Ecole polytechnique every November. What is it about ghoulish muck raking that appeals to the Liberal psyche? Perhaps it is time to point out to them the 78 dead Canadian soldiers that first went to Afghanistan on their watch; ill-equipped and prepared for the mission, with no armour, poor vehicles, no helicopters and wearing forest green camo. And the fact the our air force lacks any heavy hauling capability for military or civilian emergency operations. But then, we are talking professional, partisan politics where the primary object is not good government, but political survival of the individual member and the party. Base salary for an MP now being $155,000 annually, with nearly half of them getting additional money and perks for serving on committees. Time to consider and implement a system whereby an MP gets elected for a four year term max. Then, perhaps a chance to run for another four year term as an ELECTED Senator, serving alongside their appointed 'grandfathered' colleagues until they retire. This will qualify them for a pension, but not the current gold-plated, indexed plan for 'grand-fathered' MPs. After that, a return to private life, their duty done. The benefit? We eliminate the professional politicians who make a good living toeing the party line, mouthing platitudes while accomplishing nothing but perpetuating an archaic system that does not serve us well. Todd Birch Quesnel, BC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 09:38:36 -0800 From: Fred Hoenisch Subject: Voting advice for gun owners D R Goodbrand asked > please let us all know which of the following do you suggest is a better > choice for gun owners. I'd love to know and I'm sure I'm not alone > > Bloc Quebecois > Green Party > NDP > Liberal Party of Canada > Conservative Party of Canada > none of the above At this point, I'd suggest ALL gun owners vote 'none of the above' and spoil their ballot (or pick a supportive independant). There was a time when I'd cringe at the thought of not voting or spoiling a ballot. Since the introduction of each party receiving financial support for every vote cast - there is no reason to support a party that doesn't demonstrate that have my interests at heart. A 'real message' was sent when the CPC backbenched Garry. A 'real message' was sent when the CPC moved the CFC under the RCMP. A 'real message' could have been sent to the gun community had the CPC included the destruction of the registry in their confidence motion crime bill. (NB: I don't think the registry is a big issue in itself, but it would have shown support). If (D R Goodbrand and other) gun owners want to give money and their support to the CPC - God bless them. But they'd be kidding themselves if they think they are doing it to support civilian firearm ownership. I agree with Al, "Vote Conservative? You have got to be kidding." Yours truly, Fred Hoenisch Saanich, BC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:55:10 -0800 From: Robert LaCasse Subject: Re: Robber makes off with guns On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:45:04 -0600 (CST), you wrote: |>------------------------------ |> |>Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:17:41 -0700 |>From: Dennis & Hazel Young |>Subject: Robber makes off with guns |> |>The Vancouver Province - 2008.02.29 - PAGE: A10 By Lena Sin |>Robber makes off with guns |>http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=7b2b54e4-d429-4c70-a729-4fceada54985 That's disgusting, they (ISG) weren't allowed to protect themselves even under a Castle Doctrine since they sometimes live upstairs from the store..... I know these guys pretty good since I have done business there for some 25 years and in their older locations.... I can't see any logical reason why they didn't burn the thief, some are typical 3rd generation mafia descendents, who are mostly into duck hunting, just scrapping along to make a buck with good gun deals. The thief had better fear for his life, unless he's with a bigger organization like the Yakuza or Hell's Angels, and he isn't or he wouldn't have to resort to robbery for such items.....hell he probably got away with all those nice Kimbers series2 I have been eyeing.... I hope this at least sheds some light as to what handicapped predicament the Guvmint has put legal firearm owners in, as far as self defense with balled up storage mandates. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:59:27 -0500 From: "D R Goodbrand" Subject: Re: Re; Michael Bryant in Caledonia From: "gwsadair" Subject: Re; Michael Bryant in Caledonia "gwsadair" said....... >What a moron. >If I heard him say ahhh one more time I was going to puke. This guy >knows nothing, but thinks he does. My Grandfather had a saying that >sums it up and came from a famous person. >Better to keep your mouth shut and be perceived a fool then to open it >and remove all doubt. >His comment" we all just have to have mutual respect for each other >and just get along" removed all doubt. What a moron. I live in the middle of all this nonsense so every comment made about it catches my attention . Bryant appears even more out of his depth than he did in his previous portfolio. The "mutual respect " and "just get along" blather is reminiscent of the Rodney King. This situation gets quietly more and more out of hand as other groups have started using the "Native Cause" to further their own agenda. Tobacco farmers were the first, then an environmental group opposed to a local dump and now a gravel pit operator who's in a pissing contest with the MNR and is threatening to lease out the day to day operation of his pit to Six Nations because he KNOWS the MNR and every other government agency will treat any Native run operation with kid gloves. I won't even bother to get into the issue of illegal cigarette sales and the "Smoke Shacks" that have popped up. Those issues are like grit in grease to a lot of people. Lawlessness breeds lawlessness and everyone SHOULD know that. The OPP ( Ontario Pathetic Policing ) will NOT do anything to "upset" the natives so right now the entire area exists in a kind of "polite anarchy" where most of the "rules" everyone else expects are normal are suspended .......sort of.... one side gets a lot more slack than the other. With the crew we have running things in Ontario now it's just going to get worse because they are pinning everything on "we all just have to have mutual respect for each other" and there really is very little of that left on either side. D.R.Goodbrand ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:10:04 -0800 From: "RFOCBC" Subject: RE: Bull, no question Cool rhetoric. But... have you read the (former) Bill C-2? Now the 'newspeak' named 'Tackling Violent Crime Act'. If you have, do you understand it? K. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca]On Behalf Of D R Goodbrand Sent: February 29, 2008 11:22 AM To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Re: Bull, no question "Al Muir" said....... > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:50:13 -0400 > From: "Al Muir" > Subject: Bull, no question > > Vote Conservative? You have got to be kidding. > > Al I don't know whether to laugh or what Al. This is a joke ? Right ? IDK where you live Al but let's assume it's Quebec so we can include the Bloc in your choices Of the Federal Parties likely to run candidates in the next general election please let us all know which of the following do you suggest is a better choice for gun owners. I'd love to know and I'm sure I'm not alone Bloc Quebecois Green Party NDP Liberal Party of Canada Conservative Party of Canada none of the above Which one will you be supporting Al ? None of the above ?. Certainly NOT voting is an option. D.R.Goodbrand ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:03:28 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: Voting advice for gun owners On 2008 Mar 01, at 11:38 AM, Fred Hoenisch wrote: > If gun owners want to give money and their > support to the CPC - God bless them. But they'd be kidding themselves > if they think they are doing it to support civilian firearm ownership. > > I agree with Al, "Vote Conservative? You have got to be kidding." Morning Glory Rebels The Morning Glory Rebels propose that all owners of firearms in Canada take an unusual step to convince our Members of Parliament (and Provincial Representatives) that we expect them to repeal the Firearms Act, C-68 in total. To accomplish this we propose that we (and all other voters who are unhappy with the present state of Parliament) vote for the Green Party in the next Federal Election. This Blogsite is devoted solely to explaining the logic of our suggestion and creating discussion about it. http://www.morninggloryrebels.blogspot.com/ Posted by Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:22:42 -0800 (PST) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: Voting advice for gun owners You guys are nuts! If you want to be heard, you have to be identified (e.g. I'm a gun owner and I'd like to help you with election) and be of interest to politician (vote, support, tell them what to do)... You need to be a grass roots and not "I vote to nobody" loser. Fred Hoenisch wrote: D R Goodbrand asked > please let us all know which of the following do you suggest is a better > choice for gun owners. I'd love to know and I'm sure I'm not alone > > Bloc Quebecois > Green Party > NDP > Liberal Party of Canada > Conservative Party of Canada > none of the above At this point, I'd suggest ALL gun owners vote 'none of the above' and spoil their ballot (or pick a supportive independant). There was a time when I'd cringe at the thought of not voting or spoiling a ballot. Since the introduction of each party receiving financial support for every vote cast - there is no reason to support a party that doesn't demonstrate that have my interests at heart. A 'real message' was sent when the CPC backbenched Garry. A 'real message' was sent when the CPC moved the CFC under the RCMP. A 'real message' could have been sent to the gun community had the CPC included the destruction of the registry in their confidence motion crime bill. (NB: I don't think the registry is a big issue in itself, but it would have shown support). If (D R Goodbrand and other) gun owners want to give money and their support to the CPC - God bless them. But they'd be kidding themselves if they think they are doing it to support civilian firearm ownership. I agree with Al, "Vote Conservative? You have got to be kidding." Yours truly, Fred Hoenisch Saanich, BC I support these organizations: www.nfa.ca www.cdnshootingsports.org www.conservative.ca Support Organized Crime - Vote Liberal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:16:12 -0800 From: Robert LaCasse Subject: Re: Fees for firearm licence renewal until May 2009 On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:02:36 -0600 (CST), you wrote: |>------------------------------ |> |>Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:52:36 -0600 |>From: 10x <10k@gryhf.arg> |>Subject: Re: Fees for firearm licence renewal until May 2009 |> |>At 05:47 AM 2/28/2008 -0700, you wrote: |>> |>>PAL & POL Renewals and upgrades are still free under the CPC government. How |>>long that will last under a Dion led government is anyone's guess |> Is this in reference to: Licence Renewal (http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/bulletins/businesses/bulletin-57_e.asp) To make it easier for individuals to keep their licence current, all licence renewal fees have been waived until May 17, 2008. Or what is the May 2009 one? a typo? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:34:36 -0700 From: Bill Farion Subject: Re: Cocaine Hi, About 5 years ago the Economist printed an article estmating that about 305 metric tonnes of cocaine was coming into N. America per year. A few weeks ago they printed an article saying that the estimate is now between 500 and 700 metric tonnes coming into N America per year. Thats about 6 pickup loads per day! So is the War on Drugs working???? Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:36:06 -0800 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: The Public - gotta love 'em! Spent half a day yesterday at the annual mall display of our Rod & Gun Club. It's rather well done, emphasizig the shooting sports offered by the club and the benefits of BCWF membership. Lots of pics, posters and a video loop of CAS. The usual reaction, with the good ol' boys socializing with each other and a few of the already converted stopping to admire some of the guns, renew memberships, etc. One young man stood looking at the glass case with about a dozen handguns ranging from a ML pistol to a S&W .500. I asked him which turned his crank. He said that while they were all beautiful, he couldn't get past that they were all capable of killing. I told him that in all my years of owning and handling guns, none of them had yet killed anyone. His next words were - "I don't even hunt." I asked him if he ate meat. He nodded in the affirmative. I then asked if his shoes were made out of broccoli. He left immediately, unarmed in the battle of wits. Made my day. TB ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:32:48 -0800 (PST) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: 12(6) Question Increasing barrel length should work... I'd do it and submit application to re-register... if denied, I'd take them to court... you can change restricted to non-restricted semi-auto rifle, so why not prohibited to restricted? By the way, there is a note on your reg. certificate that you should advise CFC (not CFO) about changes to the gun. So, go through the CFC center, not CFO. They can change it on the spot to Restricted and may direct you to verifier to verify that correct modification was done. John Gilje wrote: Has anyone that has lost their hearings tried to replace the barrel? the CFC expert from Ottawa said on the stand that we could weld on 1/8" to our 4" barrels and they would then reclassified as restricted. And that we could do ourselves. Have heard the CFO's are not allowing this. Please advise me if anyone has dealing with them over this. Looks like, if this is the case , back to court all over again. Thanks, John I support these organizations: www.nfa.ca www.cdnshootingsports.org www.conservative.ca Support Organized Crime - Vote Liberal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 15:30:34 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Re; Michael Bryant in Caledonia - ----- Original Message ----- From: "D R Goodbrand" To: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Re; Michael Bryant in Caledonia > From: "gwsadair" > Subject: Re; Michael Bryant in Caledonia > > "gwsadair" said....... > >>What a moron. >>If I heard him say ahhh one more time I was going to puke. This guy >>knows nothing, but thinks he does. My Grandfather had a saying that >>sums it up and came from a famous person. >>Better to keep your mouth shut and be perceived a fool then to open it >>and remove all doubt. >>His comment" we all just have to have mutual respect for each other >>and just get along" removed all doubt. What a moron. > > > I live in the middle of all this nonsense so every comment made about it > catches my attention . Bryant appears even more out of his depth than he > did > in his previous portfolio. The "mutual respect " and "just get along" > blather is reminiscent of the Rodney King. > > This situation gets quietly more and more out of hand as other groups have > started using the "Native Cause" to further their own agenda. Tobacco > farmers were the first, then an environmental group opposed to a local > dump > and now a gravel pit operator who's in a pissing contest with the MNR and > is > threatening to lease out the day to day operation of his pit to Six > Nations > because he KNOWS the MNR and every other government agency will treat any > Native run operation with kid gloves. I won't even bother to get into the > issue of illegal cigarette sales and the "Smoke Shacks" that have popped > up. > Those issues are like grit in grease to a lot of people. > > Lawlessness breeds lawlessness and everyone SHOULD know that. The OPP ( > Ontario Pathetic Policing ) will NOT do anything to "upset" the natives so > right now the entire area exists in a kind of "polite anarchy" where most > of > the "rules" everyone else expects are normal are suspended .......sort > of.... one side gets a lot more slack than the other. > > With the crew we have running things in Ontario now it's just going to get > worse because they are pinning everything on "we all just have to have > mutual respect for each other" and there really is very little of that > left > on either side. > > D.R.Goodbrand > > If the 6 mile limit is (10 k) is recognized as being lawful, under the six > nations treaty, then those who have property in that area will now be > paying taxes to the six nations rather than to the municipalities which > reside on six nations property ?OR? maybe they will have to pay taxes to > both organizations. ed/on > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 15:32:55 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: The Libs & Cadman - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Birch" To: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:53 PM Subject: The Libs & Cadman > To: "Andrea Johnson" > > Kind of ironic that the Libs could possibly topple Harper's minority CPC > government over the alleged "life insurance" offer to deceased MP Chuck > Cadman in order to secure his vote that would have toppled the Liberal > minority government and forced an election ..... > > Unable to force an election through an issue like the budget or > Afghanistan, > the Liberals resort to posthumous dirt digging. Just as they like to trot > out the corpses of the 14 women slain at L'Ecole polytechnique every > November. What is it about ghoulish muck raking that appeals to the > Liberal > psyche? > Perhaps it is time to point out to them the 78 dead Canadian soldiers that > first went to Afghanistan on their watch; ill-equipped and prepared for > the > mission, with no armour, poor vehicles, no helicopters and wearing forest > green camo. And the fact the our air force lacks any heavy hauling > capability for military or civilian emergency operations. > > But then, we are talking professional, partisan politics where the primary > object is not good government, but political survival of the individual > member and the party. Base salary for an MP now being $155,000 annually, > with nearly half of them getting additional money and perks for serving on > committees. > > Time to consider and implement a system whereby an MP gets elected for a > four year term max. Then, perhaps a chance to run for another four year > term > as an ELECTED Senator, serving alongside their appointed 'grandfathered' > colleagues until they retire. This will qualify them for a pension, but > not > the current gold-plated, indexed plan for 'grand-fathered' MPs. After > that, > a return to private life, their duty done. > > The benefit? We eliminate the professional politicians who make a good > living toeing the party line, mouthing platitudes while accomplishing > nothing but perpetuating an archaic system that does not serve us well. > > Todd Birch > Quesnel, BC > >You need a revolution to get these ideas in motion.Otherwise its a lost >cause. ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 15:47:34 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: New crime bill is now law after two years - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Hudson" To: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:02 PM Subject: Re: New crime bill is now law after two years > On 2008 Mar 01, at 12:37 AM, Al Muir wrote: > >> The CON-servatives passed an anti-gun bill after two years. >> Is this where we gun owners are supposed to jump for joy? > > On 2008 Feb 27, at 7:45 PM, Al Muir wrote: >> >> Licensing to possess a firearm is the core of our existing Firearms >> Act. It >> is a criminal offence to possess any firearm without a licence. >> ... Return to the original (1977) Firearms Acquisition Certificate ... > > Thanks, Al, for continuing to remind us that our "new" Conservative > government has done nothing to assist firearms owners in protecting our > Right of 'Armes for their Defense'. > > And special thanks for continuing to remind us that licensing is what > is going to kill us. > > Sincerely, > > Eduardo > >That the whole idea ~!!!! Hunters and firearm ownership has dropped >drastically since the inception of C-68 and prior to that ? licensing. I will NEVER support licensing , EVER... I CARRIED A GUN FOR OVER 20 YEARS WITHOUT A LICENSE SO I DON'T SEE WHY I NEED ONE NOW JUST TO DO WHAT I DID FREELY FOR 20 YEARS. Note the word "freely " Just how "free "are we today ? Our freedom is the right to work , or become a criminal, and if we are law abiding? pay taxes ,and obey the laws, the rest is all smoke and mirrors. Criminals neither obey laws or pay taxes. Its all about CONTROL, nothing else. With food riots in the wings for this summer , its not hard to see why they have gun licensing.All the better to confiscate guns "in the interest of public safety"(lacking any other excuse.) And why Mexican and US troops will be employed to quell any unrest. My parents came to Canada in 1939 and even through the depression they thought it was a great country , then. However , just before my mother died in 1993 she said : "Canada isn't the country it was when we came here ". ed/on ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V11 #250 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:d.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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