Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, March 6 2008 Volume 11 : Number 261 In this issue: LIBERALS SAY Shot with a knife!! His finger . . lingers . . N.J. Authorities Foil 'Military Style' School Massacre Plot Shot with a knife!! Letter to Re: CTV News inflaming the gun registry debate Re: Harp-er didn't know It's all a new paradigm The smell test Firearm's Amnesty Re: voting Letter to national post (just sent) ... Letter to Toronto Star (just sent) "FW: Human Rights & Gun Confiscation - Kopel/Gallant/Eisen" CTV NATIONAL NEWS: Gun registry is under fire again ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 22:36:37 -0400 From: "Al Muir" Subject: LIBERALS SAY > Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:25:33 -0700 > From: Dennis & Hazel Young > Subject: LIBERALS SAY: Conservatives Covertly Undermine Gun Control > > LIBERAL PARTY NEWS RELEASE - March 5, 2008 > Conservatives Covertly Undermine Gun Control > http://www.liberal.ca/story_13679_e.aspx > "Legitimate gun owners are also failed by the Conservatives' under-handed > tactics," said Mr. Dosanjh. "They have been put in a state of legal limbo. > The secrecy and lack of clarity surrounding the government's true agenda > has > led over 100,000 gun owners to allow their licenses to expire. Legitimate > owners deserve honesty and clarity from this government." They did not want a license in the first place and the current legal limbo is a product of lack of enforcement of the law that has been going on since it was passed. If the CON-servatives pass C-24 both practices will end. If the Conservatives get a majority they will pass C-24 with the only difference being the number of the bill. Al ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:37:26 -0500 From: Bill Subject: Shot with a knife!! What the heck will they think of next! http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=video&file=knife_gun.wmv Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:38:22 -0800 From: Len Miller Subject: His finger . . lingers . . HE 'SPUN WEBS' around huge crowds, proposing big ideas in obscure terms, leaving listeners to discover in his speeches their own dreams. He was all things to all people. And out of party loyalty and civility, and WE HELD OUR TONGUES. Meantime, the delighted English-language media, at last presented with a French-speaking Canadian they could love, dubbed him "Canada's JFK." He would serve as prime minister for 15 years (1968-79 and 1980-84). THE DAMAGE TO WHAT CANADA STOOD FOR WOULD BE STAGGERING . . Before Trudeau, Canada still basked in the glory of its own Greatest Generation. Canada had raised the largest army in the world, per capita, to fight Hitler (1.4 million from a population of 11 million). Emerging from World War II as a leading industrial power, it had devoted a vast part of its treasure to financing the Colombo Plan, "the Marshall Plan of Asia." Parts of the infrastructure used to this day in Pakistan, India, and South Asia were paid for by Canadians. Those same Canadians generally viewed the United States with affection, even admiration. True, many harbored a residual anger at America's more than two-year delay in entering World War II, but that was a family squabble, easily put aside. They had no laws barring or limiting the flow of American popular culture across the border. Bob And Bonnie Dagenais . . the poster children on the failure of 'gun control' There is a moment in the time and tide of men's affairs . . Let us, then be up and doing, With a heart for any fate; Still achieving, still pursuing, Learn to labour and to wait. Len Miller Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:44:14 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: N.J. Authorities Foil 'Military Style' School Massacre Plot N.J. Authorities Foil 'Military Style' School Massacre Plot Wednesday, March 05, 2008 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335409,00.html TRENTON, N.J. - A developing plot to stage a "military-style assault" at a high school near the end of the school year has been foiled, authorities said. One person has been charged in the ongoing investigation, which began this week after officials at Belvidere High School heard allegations that a 17-year-old senior male student was developing a hit list of students and teachers, State Police spokesman Capt. Al Della Fave said Wednesday night. School officials notified Belvidere police, who soon got state police, the FBI and the region's Joint Terrorism Task Force involved. State police detectives Michael Lamonaco and Kenneth Koenig, working with officials from the other agencies, then began a more extensive investigation and spoke with nine of the student's acquaintances, described by Della Fave as five juveniles and four adult males, all of whom live in or nearby White Township. Della Fave would not say whether any of them were also students. "Investigators learned that the military-style plot was being developed, and that (those involved) had begun doing surveillance work at the school and were working to identify possible escape routes," Della Fave said. Authorities notified the 17-year-old student's father, who voluntarily surrendered some guns in his house to authorities. Della Fave said that all the weapons were legally registered and that the father has been assisting investigators. The student, whose name was not disclosed, has been hospitalized for a mental health evaluation, Della Fave said. He has not yet been charged. James M. Shipps, 22, of , was charged with creating a false public alarm, making terroristic threats and hindering apprehension, Della Fave said. He was being held in the county jail on $50,000 bail. It was not immediately clear whether he had a lawyer. Della Fave credited teamwork of local, state and federal officials with foiling what he said could have been "a truly horrible" incident. "This is an example of the partnerships we need to have, and why it's important for people to report suspicious activity," he said. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:37:26 -0500 From: Bill Subject: Shot with a knife!! What the heck will they think of next! http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=video&file=knife_gun.wmv Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 23:50:03 -0500 From: "Barry Glasgow" Subject: Letter to Re: CTV News inflaming the gun registry debate Sent: March 5, 2008 11:45 PM To: CTV News-TV; newsonline@ctv.ca Subject: CTV News inflaming the gun registry debate During Tuesday night's reporting on the Conservative's amnesty for those who have yet to register their hunting rifles and shotguns, CTV News felt the need to insert a film clip of a man rapid-firing a prohibitted Heckler & Kock HK94 rifle with a 30-round magazine. As this rifle is not covered by the amnesty and magazines holding more than 5 rounds are also prohibitted, the only possible reason for this clever insertion is to emotionally engage viewers with the purpose of opposing the amnesty and the Conservative government. Shame! No wonder the Canadian public is so misinformed about this issue. ====================== Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 01:09:08 -0400 From: "Al Muir" Subject: Re: Harp-er didn't know > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:01:17 -0600 > From: Joe Gingrich > Subject: Harper didn't know > > Harper didn't know about offer: Cadman's widow > > Last Updated: Monday, March 3, 2008 | 7:23 PM ET > CBC News > > > Dona Cadman said Monday she believed Stephen Harper when he told her he > didn't know about a million-dollar life insurance policy she alleges the > Conservatives offered her late husband, Independent MP Chuck Cadman. > > http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/03/03/cadman-statement.html?ref=rss > > - --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 00:15:34 -0400 > From: "Al Muir" > Subject: Showing up in practice > > There was a CON-servative MP. Lets call him Bill Casey. He voted against > the > CON-servative Party when Harp-er broke his word on transfer payments for > offshore oil. Harp-er then kicked him out of the party. > > Mr Casey's riding association was told by Harp-er they needed to pick a > replacement. Because Mr Casey and his principaled stand were so popular > with > his supporters, in his riding and in the province, his riding association > told Harp-er to go pound sand. The lot of them were replaced. > > Pray tell me again how the world is run by those who show up. Maybe this > it > what they mean by getting out of the way. > > The moral of this story for all you fine gun owning readers is that one is > a gun owner first or a CON-servative first. Which are you? > > Al > - -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Why doesn't Harper dump "instigator" CPC candidate Dona Cadman and her > riding association like he did for CPC MP Casey? > > Yours in Tyranny, > > Joe Gingrich > > White Fox > > ------------------------------ It is all in the timing. She became a candidate. Later a tell all book (many already knew about) hit the news along with the Harp-er tape. She says two somebody CONS, not Harp-er. She is still there. Was he involved? You would not get to many unbiased people to say otherwise. Would she have become a candidate after it hit the news? Not in the real world. Will she get to stay because she did not finger Harp-er? You tell me, I think Harp-er might be ready to sue his dog for barking. The more things change the more they stay the same. Al ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:18:14 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: It's all a new paradigm Al recently said: >> Licensing to possess a firearm is the core of our existing Firearms >> Act. It is a criminal offence to possess any firearm without a licence. >> ... Return to the original (1977) Firearms Acquisition Certificate ... And if the guvmint did so, you can believe it would be made it a criminal offense to possess without whatever edition of FAC or FPC was used. So what would we have gained? Eduardo added: > And special thanks for continuing to remind us that licensing is what > is going to kill us. Even the most right wing head bangers like Finance Min Little Jimmy Flaherty who's been in the news gaffing with Ontario's McGuinty, supports some form of 'licensing'. (My own CPC MP doesn't understand what we're bitchin about). You can probably count the MPs on one hand who don't believe the Feds have a right and need to know where 'all' the guns are. Without the Registry, how else are they gonna do it? You're right, by requiring owners to have a "permission to possess" paper via CC s. 91, 92, etc. I note that Flaherty is suggesting that McGuinty return to the failed economic policies of the Harris/Flaherty provincial Tories. You may recall, they cut taxes to the point where gov't revenues failed to meet expenses so they borrowed more money to pay for essential services. (Did I mention the closed hospitals, upset in the schools, forced municipal amalgamations, disruption in social services, Walkerton, Ipperwash, Spring Bear hunt, 89% failure of alternate certification appl's)? Is Harper taking silly pills in believing this will gain the CPC seats in Ontario's Golden Horseshoe in the next Fed election? There's 'no appetite' to return to that era. Even Iron Mike has mellowed now that he's on The Board at Magna, sitting at the big table with Belinda. Rumour has it that Flaherty is really angling for the provincial PC leadership. If so, you can believe that McGuinty/Bryant/Bentley and Company are saying, "Bring it on." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:40:24 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: The smell test Mred commented: > I`m not a fan of the CPC because they scre*ed me with their outright lie > about income trusts. You should hear MY CPC MP's explanation for this little LIE. He insists, "I didn't become an MP so rich corporations could avoid paying taxes." > I`m always thinking ? are they lying about repealing C-68 in total ?They > already lied about income trusts , so can THEY be trusted ? I think you can believe that ever since Bruce Mills and I tripped up Jay Hill over this issue way back - the little fudging about repealing C-68 vs. repealing the gun registry vs. repealing the long gun registry has consistently failed the 'smell test.' Do I hear WEASEL words anyone. I think the issue is "Who might screw us the least" and "Hold your nose when you vote." The problem for Mr. Harper is that if enough of the right leaning electorate become "JADED" and refuse to go to the polls - by default we lose anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 01:09:53 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Firearm's Amnesty It has been reported: > Provide expired Possession-Only License (POL) holders with the > opportunity to apply for a new POL after license expiry until May 16, > 2009. When will they realize that if they want to identify 'all' owners and 'locate' where all the guns are - that they'll be required to entice underground owners into the fold. I've been calling for an Open Amnesty for several years - knowing full well that since licensing is provincial jurisdiction Harper/Day need to negotiate with McGuinty/Bentley and the other provinces. Obviously, other jurisdictions have no interest in entertaining any sort of loosey-goosey alternative certification scheme to help out the feds. So the feds can only piddle around, grandfathering expired POLs into POLs. And the hundreds of thousands of underground owners have no resolution other than via the CFSC/CRFSC venue which they have already demonstrated they will not pursue. Absolutely no creativity in the guvmint ranks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:30:19 -0500 From: "Maurice Curtis" Subject: Re: voting Al: I didn't make my comments to start an argument, merely to express my view. I do believe we were stuck with Jean Chretien only because so many people became disenchanted with the voting system, leaving him and the die hard liberals to get the new immigrants on board thus allowing him majority governments in the 30% range. This could not have happened if 100% of people voted. After all,it's much easier to get 30% of 45% . The government wins by dividing us! Good old PET did that with his multi-culturalism( May they keep the fires stoked high) Maurice - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Muir" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 1:48 PM Subject: Re: voting >> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 09:58:45 -0500 >> From: "Maurice Curtis" >> Subject: voting >> >> OK: >> A lot of people have had their view aired with regard to voting. So here >> is >> mine. >> >> 1. Vote Liberal: to provide a safe workplace for criminals in and out of >> the >> commons and ensure firearm confiscation. Listen to unending promises to >> farmers ,businesses, poor and working people which will go unfulfilled at >> least until they have set up a system to siphon funds to their friends. >> Then >> the money will go only to inner city welfare voters and guys like the >> head >> of via rail or some other adscam type. Maybe even buy a couple more >> ships. >> >> 2. Vote Conservative: to hope they honour their commitment to repeal C68 >> and eventually make all Canadians safe, while preventing further theft >> from >> taxpayers. Lower taxes and an invigorated economy through foreign and >> local >> investment. >> >> 3. Vote Green: to guarantee idiotic programs to "save" the environment, >> including higher commodity pricing and firearms confiscation. Of course >> fighting and/or helping liberate Afghans is a polluting activity and must >> be >> stopped immediately. An additional benefit is the leader will always >> remind >> us of "Annie". >> >> 4. Vote NDP: to help the Taliban, get idiotic programs to"save" the >> environment, get idiotic programs to finance welfare communities in >> Toronto >> and generally destroy any Canadian identity we once had. Not to mention >> destroying the economy. Jack can probably get you a great car at a >> rock-bottom price! >> >> 5. Vote Bloc: to ensure the continued rape of the rest of Canada for the >> welfare of the province of Quebec, to support the Taliban and to ensure >> firearms confiscation (although Quebec may not have to give up their guns >> as >> they need them to protect themselves from the rest of Canada). More >> Kyoto >> targets will be forced, and Quebec will lead by example-- not mentioning >> they are using federal not provincial funds. >> >> 6. Don't vote: The equivalent of surrender, regardless how principled >> you >> feel your position. It is standing in the firing line and whispering at >> the enemy while he shoots at you. >> >> Maurice Curtis, >> Delta Ontario > > Maurice you have included a lot of factors that have nothing to do with > firearms in 1-5. I will take that firearms( we all should know the real > issue is not firearms) do not come first in your case and your voting > considerations are based on other factors or that they are one among > many. > Factors that I may or may not be interested in, but regardless, do not > enter > into my decision on who to vote for. I have already asked the question > which > you are first. > > In regards to not voting lets use Cuba this time instead of the USSR. In > Cuba you can vote, but only for one person. In Canada I can votes for > different shades of the same person. Most, if not all, on this forum would > appreciate one not bothering to vote in Cuba. In asking for one to vote > for > a lesser of two evils in Canada one is confronted by boy scout arguments > about civic responsibilty etc. etc. etc. yawn, yawn, yawn. Such arguments > have long been used to legitimize "democratic" governments. We start > hearing > these arguments in grade school social studies. I would think many of us > on > this forum would have gotten past that propaganda at this stage of our > lives. > > Al > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 09:26:53 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to national post (just sent) ... Ontario to ban smoking in cars with child passengers ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, As a non-smoking parent, McGuinty's proposal to ban smoking in cars will have no effect upon me, other than making me feel the icy chill of the government's insidious efforts to re-engineer society. McGuinty might just as well pass a law against stupidity, or criminality. I am concerned that a small group of well intentioned soccer moms will continue to drive the government to make such empty gestures which do nothing but extinguish our freedoms, one at a time. As with dog breed bans designed to protect children against irresponsible pet owners, or McGuinty's ironic call for the end to legal target shooting in order to resolve street gang violence, such measures are *non-sequiturs* which will ultimately turn our society into an over regulated Kafkaesque idiocracy. As Justice Louis Brandeis famously stated "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 09:41:48 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to Toronto Star (just sent) Policy by stealth ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, If the Conservatives are undoing the Liberal's firearms act without Parliament's supervision, it is because the Liberals enabled them to do so. By granting the Minister the ability to insidiously ban "any" object which in the Minister's OPINION is a danger to the public through Orders in Council, they have effectively granted sweeping powers which are subject to abuse. As the Minister can make regulations, he is also empowered to grant or extend an amnesty. Of course, the Liberal's intent was to institute a creeping program of confiscation, overseen by a hoplophobic civil service while completely circumventing the will of Parliament. If ever there was a law that needed repealing, then I'd suggest that the Canadian Firearms Act is exemplary. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, March 6, 2008 8:39 am From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 2" Subject: "FW: Human Rights & Gun Confiscation - Kopel/Gallant/Eisen" Subject: "FW: Human Rights & Gun Confiscation - Kopel/Gallant/Eisen (Final version online)" FYI ________________________________ From: PaulGallant2A@cs.com [mailto:PaulGallant2A@cs.com] Sent: March 6, 2008 12:55 AM Cc: PaulGallant2A@cs.com Subject: Human Rights & Gun Confiscation - Kopel/Gallant/Eisen (Final version online) "Human Rights and Gun Confiscation," David B. Kopel, Paul Gallant, &Joanne D. Eisen, 26 Quinnipiac Law Review (Number 2, 2008) 385. The final version of this paper is now online at: http://davekopel.org/2A/Foreign/Human-Rights-and-Gun-Confiscation.pdf (in case .pdf hyperlink at end of abstract does not open) ABSTRACT: This Article addresses a human rights problem which has been generally ignored by the advocates of firearms confiscation: the human rights abuses stemming from the enforcement of confiscation or similar laws. This Article also documents some of the human rights abuses that result from the types of gun control and gun prohibition programs supported by the United Nations and other international gun control advocates. Part I conducts a case study of the U.N.-supported gun confiscation program in Uganda, a program which has directly caused massive, and fatal, violations of human rights. Among the rights violated have been those enumerated in Article 3 ("the right to life, liberty and security of person") and Article 5 ("No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment") of the Universal Declaration. Part II examines a similar gun confiscation program, with similar results, in Kenya. Part III describes the recent government attempts to disarm South African citizens, and details how the implementation of antigun laws has caused extensive violations of civil and human rights, although not the government-perpetrated murder, torture, arson, and ethnic cleansing that have been endemic in Kenya and Uganda. Part IV reports on survey data and other evidence from around the world which suggest one reason why gun confiscation programs can result in major human rights violations: most gun-owners possess their firearm for personal and family defense. Therefore, gun confiscation must be enforced by extremely violent and intrusive measures. Civilians simply will not disarm when they cannot see concrete evidence of guarantees for personal safety. This Article concludes by offering two caveats for disarmament programs. First, voluntary disarmament will generally be possible only after a government has proven that it will protect the security of the people to be disarmed. Second, coercive attempts to disarm people who still need guns to defend themselves - including for protection from predatory governments - are likely to lead to massive resistance, and to an escalating cycle of human rights abuses by government forces, and re-armament by the victim population. This Article also provides the most complete collection ever presented of international survey data about why people in various countries own guns. PDF; http://davekopel.org/2A/Foreign/Human-Rights-and-Gun-Confiscation.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, March 6, 2008 9:02 am From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 2" Subject: CTV NATIONAL NEWS: Gun registry is under fire again PUBLICATION: CTV - CTV News DATE: 2008.03.05 TIME: 23:00:00 ET END: 23:30:00 ET WORD COUNT: 369 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gun Registry - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- LLOYD ROBERTSON: Canada's controversial gun registry is under fire again tonight. Opposition MP's are accusing the government of quietly trying to dismantle the registry by allowing owners of shotguns and rifles to avoid the long arm of the law. The weapons are exempt from the registry under an amnesty that was set to expire this month. But as CTV's Graham Richardson reports, the Harper government had extended the amnesty again. GRAHAM RICHARDSON (Reporter): For three years running now, the message to owners of rifles and shotguns - don't worry too much about the firearms registry. Over the weekend the Harper government quietly extended another amnesty for another 12 months. No criminal charges for those gun owners who have not registered their long guns. STOCKWELL DAY (Public Safety Minister): And we're not going to have direct very valuable resources and police officers towards a law abiding gun collectors towards those who are licensed to be target shooters. RICHARDSON: That doesn't sit well with some provinces like Ontario. CHRIS BENTLEY (Ontario Attorney General): It is the law of the land and if there is to be the elimination of the firearms registry, it should be a public debate in Parliament. RICHARDSON: Curiously the federal government's explanation for the amnesty is to encourage gun owners to come back into compliance with the law. And the government promises an advertising campaign to clear up confusion. While target shooters cheered the decision. TONY BERNARDO (Canadian Shooting Sports Association): Killing it by steps is not the way it is right now; it's been dead for years. The thing doesn't work and it never did work. RICHARDSON: Gun control advocates were very critical. WENDY CUKIER (Coalition for Gun Control): Most of the police officers killed in this country were killed with rifles and shotguns. Most of the women killed in this country are killed with rifles and shotguns. RICHARDSON: The Conservatives do have a bill before Parliament that would abolish the long gun registry but they don't have enough votes to support it. So the amnesties continue. And just like the last few times, this time they say it will only last for a year. Graham Richardson, CTV News, Ottawa. Liberals accuse Tories of ducking long gun fight Updated Wed. Mar. 5 2008 6:53 PM ET http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080305/gun_registry_080305/20080305?hub=Canada ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V11 #261 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:d.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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