Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, March 31 2008 Volume 11 : Number 299 In this issue: Re: Huh? Have I missed something? 'Swift-boating' the law abiding? Re: 'Swift-boating' the law abiding? copy of letter I have sent to the NRA Beverl;y Ackerman shoots her mouth off Toronto Chinese Rally Turns Ugly "All the news that's Fitna" Cancelling classes for Jewish holidays discriminatory letter to Globe and Mail (just sent) Thank's for warning Re: CCW Clarification Re: CCW Clarification ''Shut the gun registry'' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:17:15 -0400 From: "Al Muir" Subject: Re: Huh? Have I missed something? > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:53:03 -0400 (EDT) > From: Rob Sciuk > Subject: Huh? Have I missed something? > >> >> Yet more evidence that the CONS have no intention of getting rid of >> licensing, ever. How much more do we need before we wake up. Perhaps Rob >> could deliver the data provide to him by Garry B. that clearly shows that >> the CONS are not " investing in what works". It would appear that Day is >> not >> in communication with Garry B. >> >> Al >> > > Me? Inside info? Secret conspiracy theory? I'm involved? > How did I get mixed up in this? Rob you posted a letter to this forum that contained information that you said was provided by Garry B. It contained data on how very few licensed owners were involved in firearms crime. I inquired at that time how that data supported licensing but you did not reply. The fact is the data you provided point to the fact that licensing is not "investing in what works". I have copied it below to refresh your memory. Notice where it states contributions by Garry B. Notice the figures provided by yourself that do not support licensing. Notice there is no suggestion of a conspiracy. However there is evidence of CONS. I believe I have answered all your questions even though I have not seen any to mine. >> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:07:18 -0500 (EST) > From: Rob Sciuk > Subject: Letter to National Post (just sent) > > With contributions by Pat Warner and Garry B. > > Danger Pays ... (fwd) > > > Dear Sir/Madame, > Statistics Canada indicates that in recent years 98.79 percent of all > firearms > used in crimes were not registered to the accused murderer and 97.86 > percent of > murders were committed by a person who did not hold a valid firearms > licence. > It follows then that the criminals do not take the requisite safety > training > that police, military, private security agents and even law abiding target > shooters have drilled into them constantly. Ok Rob, so a licensing scheme WORKS how? Al ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 11:07:24 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: 'Swift-boating' the law abiding? Cc: Licia Corbella , Lorne Gunter , With everyready bunny apologies, it seems the the ANTI's are using swift boating techniques to smear the law abiding. Like a whinedy toy, they wind themselves up and hit the ground with the swift boating technique of wild accusations. Hell, any pejorative will do . . What do I mean by 'swiftboating'? see That only leaves one option remaining, then: 'Swiftboat' the SOB. Find some tangential pseudo-vulnerability that goes after Obama's biggest potential asset and turn it into a negative. Is he coming off to a mesmerized public as some kind of post-ideological, post-racial-divide healer who could unite the country and return us to our sanity? Then he must be turned into (an) Eldrige Cleaver. All that's needed to complete the picture is a big 'fro, a beret and an AK-47 with a menacing tilt to it. Preposterous? Think it can't be done? So did I, until I saw a guy with three Purple Hearts and a Silver Cross turned into a weak, wimpy, lying coward,## in order to make sure that a weak, wimpy, lying coward who went to Margaritaville instead of the Mekong Delta during the Sixties could be portrayed as some sort of macho tough guy, and thus steal another four years in the White House. By David Michael Green ## by the media . . . - ----------------------- Swift boating? Hell, the media lives on it . . 'seriously' How much dog-shit does it take to ruin a good pot of soup? Which is why the Akerman's . . the Weeping Wendies, keep getting printed. Telling the truth, comes nowhere near the attraction of outright lying . . Stir up the populous . . especially the law-abiding . . lots of fun in that . . Ignore the murders, the home invasions, the beatings of the elderly brought on by the 'disarming' lie of gun control . . Instead, print up the removal of firearms from seniors who became that way from the passage of the cruel hoax of gun legislation . . A tsunami like bump in Canadian jurisprudence, which washed in from the previous calmness of Ottawa, and like the tsunami is killing the unsuspecting . while not stopping the criminals Ottawa is supposed to protect citizens . . . not prey upon them . . Yet, seems unable to sense its culpability . . From Vancouver where a 91 year old gets three successive home invasions . . and three punks are targetting South Vancouver women in muggings . . Thank you Ottawa . . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:48:24 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: 'Swift-boating' the law abiding? You`re on a roll Len ,keep it up ..Good to hear you`re back in form....Ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Miller" To: "Cdn-Firearms Digest" Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: 'Swift-boating' the law abiding? > Cc: Licia Corbella , > Lorne Gunter , > > With everyready bunny apologies, it seems the > the ANTI's are using swift boating techniques to > smear the law abiding. > > [EDIT] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:42:14 -0300 From: "M.J. Ackermann, MD" Subject: copy of letter I have sent to the NRA Please read the quoted newspaper opinion piece below. It would seem your organization is being libeled by Ms. Akerman, in typical ignorant ani-gun fashion. How about waking her up a bit with a lawyer's letter that informs her of the fact that the NRA does not fund in any way foreign gun rights efforts and commands her to cease and desist? For your consideration, - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) Rural Family Physician, Sherbrooke, NS Box 13, 120 Cameron Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca "Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst". _____________________________________________ PUBLICATION: The Calgary Sun DATE: 2008.03.23 EDITION: Final SECTION: Editorial/Opinion PAGE: 31 COLUMN: Sunday Letters NO EASTER BUNNY The gun lobby is not like the Easter bunny. ("Label derogatory," Letters, March 16.) Canadians must understand our gun lobby is organized, supported and probably financed by the National Rifle Association, probably the most influential lobby group in the U.S. Our gun lobby consists of those with vested interests in increasing gun ownership in Canada. Selling guns is incredibly big business. Only incidentally is the gun lobby interested in "crime." They push for elimination of Canadian gun controls in large part because the Americans have decided fighting gun control in their own country means fighting it everywhere, sort of like Communism in the 1950s. My son was at Dawson College on Sept. 13, 2006, when Kimveer Gill showed up with his legally obtained Beretta semi-automatic rifle, Glock .45-calibre pistol, 12-gauge shotgun and 1,500 bullets. The gun lobby says his crime is proof gun controls don't work. I, and most Canadians, say Gill's crime is proof seven million guns in private hands is seven million too many. Beverly Akerman - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) Rural Family Physician, Sherbrooke, NS Box 13, 120 Cameron Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca "Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:48:36 -0400 From: Subject: Beverl;y Ackerman shoots her mouth off Sent not yet published Beverly Ackerman who is the latest poster thingy for the anti gun corwd, seems to like shooting her mouth off. Ms Ackerman has slandered every gun owner and firearms organization across canada when she catergoricaly stated they were funded by the National Rifle Association. I challenge Ms Ackerman to put up or shut up and stop trying to stir the pot of discontent. If Ms Ackerman cannot prove that the NRA is indeed fundunding the various firearms groups, then I would expedct nothing less than a full and quite public apology, failing which she should confine her remarkls to what she actually knows.. such as having babies. Clearly she has no knowledge on firearms, except to say they are bad. So put up and prove your remarks Ms Ackerman, or just sit back and be thought a fool ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:13:51 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Toronto Chinese Rally Turns Ugly Toronto Chinese Rally Turns Ugly-UPDATED With Video Participants heckle Tibetans: 'Leave Canada.' Mayor's China trip questioned By Jason Loftus Epoch Times Toronto Staff http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-3-29/68263.html TORONTO-A rally that was billed as promoting "anti-violence" turned hostile on Saturday as flag-waving Chinese denounced Tibetans who they blamed for the recent turmoil in Tibet in which 100 are said to have died. Close to 1000 Chinese were in Toronto's Dundas Square for the afternoon event, many of them students. "Dalai Lama die there!" some Chinese shouted at a group of Tibetans who had gathered across the street from the square to protest. "Leave Canada!" others urged. Tibetans say the Chinese rally, which began orderly, was designed to incite hate against them. The event was promoted in Chinese-language press as a rally to tell the "truth" about Tibet and "safeguard the reunification of the motherland." Several major Chinese-language media outlets in Canada have parroted the Chinese communist regime's line on Tibet, blaming the turmoil on the Dalai Lama and his followers and fanning a nationalist animosity toward Tibetans. ( Read more ) http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-3-27/68105.html The rally began with a parade of speeches repeating the Chinese regime's line on Tibet: that it has long been part of China, that the Chinese government spent millions trying to help the Tibetan people, and that Tibetan monks and youths led violent protests in Lhasa recently that caused death and suffering of Han Chinese, the majority ethnic group in China. The speeches were interspersed with patriotic Chinese songs. No mention was made of police violence used to quash the protests, nor of the Tibetan grievances that experts say sparked the initially peaceful protests in Lhasa. China has helped Tibetans "protect, spread, and develop" their culture, said one speaker. An organizer who spoke in English claimed the Chinese regime had "helped Tibetan people to improve human rights" by making them literate. "People were just blind faith to believe in their religion," he said. "They were controlled." The rally became dramatic when a Tibetan refugee took to the stage waving a Tibetan flag. He was seized by a group of Chinese who dragged him away before police intervened to separate them. After the incident, the man spoke with The Epoch Times. In tears, he described the suffering of Tibetans under communist rule, explaining that he left Tibet 10 years ago and came to Canada only recently. The man said Toronto Mayor David Miller should reconsider a planned trip to China next month amid the ongoing repression in Tibet by the communist regime. Angry Chinese turned on the Tibetan protesters, hollering "Dalai Lama die there!" "Dalai Lama lies!" "Liars, liars!" and "Leave Canada!" They also sang communist party songs. Police detained one man after he charged across a busy street to where the Tibetans were protesting, waving a large Chinese flag. He was identified as University of Toronto student Yang Shao by other students in the square. Police at Toronto's 52 Division said the man had been released and no charges had been laid. A spokesperson for the city office that oversees the Dundas Square said earlier this week that he didn't believe the group organizing Saturday's event would be spreading hate. Patrick Carnegie, the square's manager of programming and events, said there were rules that governed how the square is to be used, including not belittling any identifiable group and conveying messages only in a positive way. Any group can use the space "as long as they do so in a safe manner that is in accordance to the bylaws," Mr. Carnegie said. According to Mr. Carnegie, the event had been approved as a "Love China Concert." When The Epoch Times pointed out that even English-language flyers for the event suggested the rally tended to lay blame for the violence on the Tibetans, he said the group was expected to follow the rules. Anna Yang and Matthew Little contributed to this story. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 23:41:45 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "All the news that's Fitna" We and our NATO allies may be kicking Islamofascism butt in Afghanistan but many of our EU allies, mainstream media and internet billionaires are already caving in, giving up centuries old, hard won freedoms without even a fight. Funny how none of these groups prostrating themselves before Islamofascist threats trust the state to protect them. http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/? q=ZjMyZTQ5YmQwNjhmZGZlYjJiNGM2OTJjNDFkOTFkODg= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:08:54 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Cancelling classes for Jewish holidays discriminatory University loses round on holiday policy TheStar.com - GTA York's practice of cancelling classes for Jewish holidays found to be discriminatory March 31, 2008 Louise Brown; Education Reporter > http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/407447 An Ontario Human Rights Commission investigation has found that York University's long-standing practice of cancelling classes on Jewish holidays discriminates against students of other religions. While the investigator's report must now go before the commissioners themselves for consideration, her findings are seen as vindication for York history professor David Noble, who has complained for years it is unfair for today's diverse multi-faith campus to scrap classes for three days and nights each year to honour one group's religious holy days, but not others. "This is fantastic. It's just too bad it took four years to have a third party confirm that this is an illegal practice," said Noble, who is a non-observant Jew. The university began cancelling classes 34 years ago for the two days of Rosh Hashanah and one day of Yom Kippur, originally because administrators said many professors and students would miss those classes anyway. But a recent report prepared by York professor Thomas Klassen paints a highly diverse picture of the 51,000-student campus, with Jewish students estimated to represent about 5.8 per cent of students, Muslim students about 4.8 per cent, Catholic students 34.9 per cent, Protestant 22.1 per cent, other Christian 7.3 per cent, Hindu 3.6 per cent, Buddhist 2.1 per cent and Sikh 2 per cent. Klassen, who opposes cancelling class on Jewish holidays, estimated this breakdown by cross-referencing the postal codes of students' home addresses with Statistics Canada data on religious affiliation – a process he said is often used by universities and medical researchers to take demographic snapshots. In her report to the Human Rights Commission, which was sent Friday to Noble and university officials, investigator Kim Hanson concludes the practice violates the Ontario Human Rights Code's protection against discrimination based on a person's "creed." "The university's practice of not scheduling classes on Jewish high holy days clearly results in differential treatment on the basis of creed, in that individuals of one group, those of Jewish faith, are given preferential treatment over others," the report concludes. York spokesperson Alex Bylik said the university has no comment yet on the confidential report, for which it has 21 days to respond to the commission. York has stressed that students of any religious background can ask to be excused from class for a religious holiday. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:54:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: letter to Globe and Mail (just sent) Show leadership on cluster bombs ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, Former Liberal cabinet minister Lloyd Axworthy politician agonizes over the inhumanity of using cluster bombs to wage war, but has missed the obvious in his quest for a legacy. War is the inevitable end game of failed politics. As a Minister in the Chretien government, Axworthy played a role in the failure which had Canada jump at the UN sanctioned Afghan mission as the "preferred alternative" to aiding our allies, "those American bastards", in the Iraq invasion. I am put in mind of the words of General Sherman when he said "War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out". Now, Mr. Axworthy apparently seeks to assuage his guilty conscience over the deployment of an effective weapon which has proven useful to the military. If Axworthy truly wants to save humanity, then perhaps he should instead work to see that our politicians improve so that wars can be avoided, rather than trying to hamstring our own troops' ability to effectively wage the one we are already committed to, and to prevail! Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:50:53 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Thank's for warning Check out: > http://www.dumpalink.com/pictures/Thanks-For-The-Warning-3cc0.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:20:21 -0700 From: Jason Hayes Subject: Re: CCW Clarification On Saturday 29 March 2008 9:39:54 am Todd Birch wrote: > A US friend that lives in Washington state tells me that there is a moral > and LEGAL requirement to use your gun in the prevention of a crime where > you are in a position to do something about it. Is this part and parcel of > the current program? Interesting. The very next email that I read after replying to your email had information on this group. http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/ They're trying to set up a legal defense fund to help those who have been forced to deal with a home intrusion, robbery, etc. - -- Jason Hayes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:17:58 -0700 From: Jason Hayes Subject: Re: CCW Clarification On Saturday 29 March 2008 9:39:54 am Todd Birch wrote: > A US friend that lives in Washington state tells me that there is a moral > and LEGAL requirement to use your gun in the prevention of a crime where > you are in a position to do something about it. Is this part and parcel of > the current program? Todd That is not the case in AZ (not sure about WA though). While it would be nice to think that people would help out, the reality is that you do not have to. The instructor in our CCW course made it clear that when intervening with a firearm you were opening yourself up to a whole host of criminal and civil legal issues. He also warned us to question whether the people you are helping would be willing to cover the costs of your lawyer, your mortgage, your health/life insurance, your car payments, etc. while you fought off criminal charges or a civil lawsuit, or if you were killed/injured. His take on the issue was to have things very firmly and thoroughly thought out in your mind before you ever decide to carry concealed because the second you pull your gun, you very likely have just spent $100,000 in legal fees, invalidated your life insurance, etc.. Those are worst case scenarios and may not happen. However, if you have a litigious bad guy, or if you make even the tiniest of errors in handling the situation, you could very easily be sued or jailed. If that happens, you need to be ready to continue to provide for your family from jail or through a trial. His (almost exact) words were "is it worth it to have your house foreclosed on and be sent to jail to help this guy out?" ... "Should you just call 911 instead?" To be fair, he was trying -- as all good teachers do -- to prepare his students for any and all outcomes. However, he said that he had had CCW students call him up and describe those kinds of stories having happened to them after they drew a firearm. Short answer would be that unless the state provides some sort of good samaritan law to protect those who are helping out, I don't see how they could legally or morally require that you step in. - -- Jason Hayes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:31:22 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: ''Shut the gun registry'' Cc: Garry Breitkreuz , Mark Bonokoski , winnipeg Sun , Stock day Vancouver Sun Fri, Nov 3 1972 editorial Page SHUT THE GUN REGISTRY While aboriginals make up just 3% of the Canadian population, aboriginal offenders commit nearly one-quarter of the country's firearms murders and other violent crime crimes involving guns. Aboriginals account for a similarly disproportionate SHARE of the victims of murder, armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon. In most crime surveys, 60% to 80% of reserve residents report witnessing unsafe or even criminal use of firearms each year. Given that the federal government's billion dollar gun registry was ostensibly designed TO PROTECT Canadians from gun violence, one would assume the feds were aggressively moving to ensure compliance with the registry among reserve-resident natives. But, they're not. In June, Garry Breitkreuz, the (Reform) Canadian Alliance's Indefatigable firearms critic obtained 136 pages of internal GOVERNMENT statistics detailing the aboriginal communities response to the new gun registration laws. By the government's own admission,'' although the appears to be pockets of high license compliance among aboriginal communities . . there is an apparent general pattern of low-to-moderate compliance across the country''. By the most optimistic calculations, no more than 15% of natives have obtained the required gun owners' licenses . . and very likely far fewer. Ad this despite the massive, expensive effort by Ottawa to encourage aboriginals to obtain license for themselves and registrations for their guns. Ottawa even set a special, extraordinarily easy licensing test for aboriginals, and sent teams of registration counsellors to reserves across the country. Still, few aboriginals could be bothered to comply. Across the West, where native populations and gun ownership are highest, nearly HALF OF ALL RESERVES WOULDN'T even permit registration counsellors to enter. In Northern Manitoba among a dozen aboriginal communities with a combined population of more than 17,000, just 847 licence applications have been received. I you believe the hype about the registry, then the government should be sending the RCMP to reserves to round up defiant gun owners, just a the LIBERALS have said the will jail non-complying non-natives . . But, of course, they aren't, and they won't . . though they will no doubt periodically make a symbolic ## show of enforcing their registry. Why? The answer is simple. As most Liberals realize without admitting, Canada's (3) billion dollar gun registry will never reduce gun crime, nor save a single life. It exists only because gun control is a fashionable political cause in TORONTO and other urban areas where most people would not know a shotgun from a flintlock pistol. But, since aboriginal RIGHTS is an even more politically fashionable cause, the gun registry- and all the lives it will supposedly save- has been trumped on reserves by the Liberal instinct to indulge natives. By failing to enforce gun registry on reserves, the Liberals are implicitly admitting that they DO NOT CARE about saving Indian lives . . or THAT THE GUN REGISTRY IS USELESS. Assuming we can discard the first, more scandalous, hypothesis, the most sensible response to Mr. Breitkreuz's laudable detective work is clearly TO SHUT DOWN OUR USELESS, WASTEFUL, (3) BILLION DOLLAR GUN REGISTRY. - --------- gun crimes are not being committed by guns . . gun crimes are being committed by criminals . . Len Miller Vancouver ## the cruel pursuit and punishment of Bruce Montague, for daring to challenge the hoax of gun control legislation . . in court . . ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V11 #299 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:d.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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