Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, August 27 2008 Volume 12 : Number 019 In this issue: What was meant to be - and what the RFC got Re: Conquered with or without division Acceptance & Explanation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:42:48 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: What was meant to be - and what the RFC got Got to give 'credit' when the accolades are due: This info is from a letter to Ontario's former Solicitor General when he was trying to salvage gains for the RFC. He enjoyed little success even with pro hunter (I expressly didn't say pro-gun, because these chaps see a distinct difference) Chris Hodgson in cabinet. • The Hon. Allan Rock, Hansard, February 16, 1995. “Those who own firearms would be asked within five years to pick up a card, conveniently available in their communities, to identify themselves by name and to return it. They will be sent a permit or license to own a firearm.” • The Federal Chief Firearms Officer’s (FCFO) Express Bulletin: Vol. 1, Issue II indicated, “Those who can demonstrate that their knowledge and experience in the care and handling of firearms is conducive to the fundamental safety requirement of the CFSC can receive alternate certification.” [The FCFO provided a questionnaire for use as a tool to assist CFOs and FOs in the alternate certification of applicants. This could have readily formed the basis for a Prior Learning Assessment of applicants for PALs]. • Justice Conrad continued, “Considering the vast number of people that will be exempt from taking the safety course . . it is apparent that the safety course is not at the heart of this legislation. Intensive screening is likewise not the real concern. Moreover, and importantly, the legislation does not purport to set minimum standards for users of firearms, nor does it set absolute entitlements to firearms.” (67) • She stated, “The licencing system for ordinary firearms is filled with exemptions.” (98) “There are exemptions from requirements of safety courses and any substantive screening. The POL is really an exemption from much of the regulatory scheme for all current firearm owners in Canada. Thus the law applies differently to possessors at the date of the Act and possessors in the future. . . exemptions include those for safety courses and screening for visitors who come to Canada with guns and exemptions from age requirements.” (136) • The Justice indicated that the entire licensing scheme is at the discretion of the CFO. It is a discretion without minimum standards, or any absolute standard for that matter. The only absolute guideline is safety to themselves or others.” (136) Justice Minister Cauchon’s May 7, 2002 briefing notes that state, “The Chief Firearms Officer makes all the decisions regarding the issuance of licences in his province.” • Similarly, in his August 2001 review of the information handling practices of the federal registry, Privacy Commissioner Radwanski states, “The CFO in each province . . have the authority to refuse or revoke licences. Those provinces that have opted-in [like Ontario] play an almost autonomous role in the administration of the FA.” • Library of Parliament lawyers verified in May 2000 that CFSC testing was solely a CFO’s decision. [I recommended a valid Prior Learning Assessment (PLA) option in 1998 that would have been a more defensible alternative]. • Ontario Minister Bob Runciman, January 8,1999, “Under Bill C-68, the responsibility for alternate certification of an applicant rests solely with the CFO of each province.” With all this 'power' and 'authority' - what did the RFC gain in Alberta and Ontario from Klein and Harris? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:03:49 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Conquered with or without division - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Muir" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:16 AM Subject: Conquered with or without division >> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:24:30 -0400 >> From: "D R Goodbrand" >> Subject: Re: Divide and conquer >> >>> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:28:23 -0400 >>> From: "mred" >>> Subject: Re: Quick. Call an election before the word gets out >>> >> >> >>> Keep up the infighting , men~! the powers that be must just love it, and >>> how >>> we are fighting amongst ourselves . >>> >>> Divide and conquer ohhhhhhh yeeaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh >>> ed/on >>> >> >> The reason "we are fighting amongst ourselves " is because this forum has >> become a comfortable home to anti CPC trolls. >> ANYONE advocating the defeat of the CPC in the next election, whenever >> it's >> held, is NO FRIEND of the shooting sports in this country and I don't >> give >> a rats ass how long they may have been involved in fighting for the >> shooting sports or how much money they've raised for various firearm >> related causes >> >> It's not even remotely an issue of "in fighting" because it's not down to >> a >> choice between choosing between two parties at least neutral on the issue >> of firearms. > > > Could you tell me how the Crime Bill as it pertains to firearms is > neutral? > > I know C-24 is because there is nothing different from what the Libs gave > us. > > >> Whatever issue anyone on this forum may have with the CPC in regards to >> firearms the Liberals will, without any doubt, be worse. > > > Please explain to me how my property not being mine under the Libs > Firearms Act is worse then my property not being mine under the Cons C-24 > as I will not get a license for one or the other? > > Given the Crime Bill and C-24 my punishment for refusal to comply might > well be worse. Those like yourself that want us to vote for the Cons and > nothing else have not answered that very important question yet. > > Lets hear it, I am all ears. This is your chance to set me strait. > > Would it be just get a license and shut up? > > Roll over like a good dog? > > Al Well we could all vote Morning Glory or Libertarian? That's the choice we have. We all understand the CPC and Day especially are having us bend over repeatedly. Its time Harper dumped Day and put Breitkreuz in his place like he should have at the beginning And the only way to do THAT/ Is tell Harper he wont get the support of the RFC until he does so, In a nice way of course. ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:23:18 -0700 From: "Willy Floyd" Subject: Acceptance & Explanation To all: The following message was composed some time ago, and then placed in storage while I thought some more about it. I am still happy with what I wrote then so I am sending it in. -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o- My thanks and gratitude to Rob for his apology, which I accept. Rob and I have corresponded offline and I am sure we understand each other better. I know that some of my messages are provocative, but that is not by mistake. I need to find out the exact feelings of our cohorts in seeking a solution to our present quandary. I will probably modify my words in the future now that I feel that I know where everyone stands. I will continue to promote the principles behind the MGR plan because I trust hardly anyone in Ottawa (or Toronto) and view them as enemies to my rights and lifestyle. The Morning Glory Rebellion puts the onus on the political parties to change their focus. It seems that he main objection to the MGR is the fear that the Green Party, as it is presently constituted, would somehow join hands with the Lieberals and control the firearms issue, I remind all that before Lizzy May and the female contingent took over control of the party from Jim Harris their policy was to favour the abolition of the long gun registry. Except for PEI and the Territories it takes about 28,000 votes to win a seat. If the MGR manages to raise that number of votes in any one of the 308 Ridings that would represent THREE TIMES THE TOTAL COUNTRYWIDE GREEN PARTY MEMBERSHIP. The new membership (of gun owners) would hold absolute dominance over the grass-eating greenies and a small reversion in their policy regarding firearms would be immediate and easy. Mt estimate of what might occur is that in a couple of Ridings we would combine with the true Greenies and other defectors to win a seat or two, maybe! What an opportunity we gun owners would then have, our very own political platform, ready made, up and running. But the real demand the MGR delivers is this: To the CPC, give a clear commitment to scrapping C 68 or never get a majority. But we must demand and get that response NOW. The Liberals are bound to replace Dion (promise him a Senatorship, which is really what he wants) and then the election following the next one will be the dangerous one for us. Act now, or kneel down and pray that the party which will concede anything to win seats in Quebec and hold what they have in the GTA will really do anything for us but grant another amnesty in hopes of raising the compliance percentage another point or two. Every power-mad politician knows that a gun control measure that does not get at least 90% total compliance the first time around will not succeed and should not be attempted. Alan Rock's severe penalties for paper crimes (5 to 10 years in the slammer) was intended to scare the bejesus out of all of us and instead was stupid overkill. If my statement isn't true, who has been sentenced to prison in the eight years that at least two million of us have been guilty as sin? And why is that? Because the judiciary in this country does not view paper crooks in the same light as the likes of Clifford Olsen and Paul Bernardo. And the ex Attorney General be damned! The sole partial exception is that of Bruce Montague and he deliberately lead with his chin. Wrong guy, wrong place, wrong tactic in choosing a jury trial. Outcome still doubtful. And only an 18 months sentence! If Alan Rock had not mistakenly thought he could intimidate Johnny Canuck by his big city lawyer tactic the present situation might be different. When you order a population of independent men "Do not spit in the street or I will kill you, you will get spit in the face". Even Hitler, who held all of Europe in complete dominance, could not stop the flow of arms into France, Norway and Yugoslavia. Now, with the introduction of GPS, any boy pilot in a Piper Cub can, at night, drop 20 handguns onto a farmer's field without any fear of discovery or interception. So much for the elimination of smuggling. Two generations of Liberal/socialist judges are partially responsible for the country's present misfortune. But a Conservative majority, obviously willing to increase the minimum penalty for even paper crimes, are a far greater danger to us in the long run. And it is virtually axiomatic that the CPC will understand that a list of people who owns guns is far more important than a list of actual firearms. An application for permission to possess firearms at a certain address gives immense power to a police force with liberal warrantless entry privileges. That application is in effect an affidavit and makes court conviction a certainty. All that is needed is a severe minimum sentence of five years or more, and the law of creeping tendency will see us down the river, and most especially THOSE WHO REGISTER THEMSELVES. That, in a nutshell, is the danger of a Conservative majority at this time. I say, do not trust in the sincerity of past promises that have not resulted in any improvement of our prospects. A repeated moratorium on registry of firearms is nothing more than an attempt to raise the compliance percentage from about 45% to that threshold of 90%. All 'they' want is addresses and affidavits. Once the government sees the compliance threshold rise to that magic number expect the Gunstapo everywhere to start booting down doors in the middle of the night. A few more incidents like that of Paradis and we can expect the cops to use every technique possible to render all occupants of a targeted house immobile. THAT will be very intimidating to the rest of the non-compliant. Then the government need only offer a short amnesty to turn in all guns and they will have them.. That is what happened in Norway in 1941. Does anyone think that Johnny Canuck of 2008 is likely to show greater intestinal fortitude than Lars Norseman did then? "When the guns are gone, everything else is easy." -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o- There can be no doubt in any intelligent man's mind that the Conservatives have no intention of eliminating the people registry, which is power to the politician and bureaucrat and heavy danger for us. Anyone who suggests otherwise is either blind, or a fool, or worse, a blind fool. Willy ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V12 #19 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:drg.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)