Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, November 27 2008 Volume 12 : Number 693 In this issue: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V12 #676 Bear Spray letter to Toronto Star (just sent) Re: [SPORTS ILLUSTRATED] A More Dangerous Game Wpg Sun Column: ..."violent crimes are not so easily wiped out" Yes, please tell us . . Toronto Star: Violent offenders to be tracked; Toronto Star - Brampton woman victim of home invasion Re: Riel poems sell for $31,050 at auction- Winnipeg Frre Press Toronto Star - Police seek two men for allegedly violating parole Calgary Herald - Elderly man kills wife, self in couple's Red... Toronto Star - Police seek suspects in two robberies Why C-68 must be rescinded Our Poor MPs Re: Bear Spray ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:52:56 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V12 #676 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:00:01 -0400 From: "M.J. Ackermann, MD" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V12 #676 The Miramich employees could be put to better work tracking and enforcing prohibition orders against the 170,000 Canadians who have been declared unfit to possess firearms. [EDIT] - ------------------------------ Excellent idea. If society must keep these bureaucrats, then having them monitor the criminals instead of the law-abiding would help install logic into Canada's weird "justice" system . Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:55:47 -0800 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Bear Spray Flipping through a back copy of the NRA "Rifleman" magazine, I found this letter: "When I read articles in the "Rifleman" about Canada's gun laws, I didn't pay much attention. When I went there recently on vacation, I was shocked when customs officials confiscated my little tear gas spray. I was not comfortable visiting Canada where the law allows an everage house cat more rights of self-preservation than it does me." signed Lane Stokes, Georgia Gee, I wonder what house cats are packing in Georgia? But the point is well made. Americans presume that they have the right to self preservation whereas we do not. With all the street violence and hostage taking around the world, it is becoming increasingly apparent that citizens are becoming more needful of self-protection by arming themselves appropriately. Politicians and celebrities do, as do those who transport money. Our lives are just as worthy of protection. TB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:41:12 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: letter to Toronto Star (just sent) Violent offenders to be tracked (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, I read with interest that Ontario's Attorney General Chris Bentley has come to the conclusion that the Justice System should focus its attention upon the very small but violent group of criminals who habitually re-offend, yet continually find themselves back on the streets. Quelle surprise! One can only imagine the pre-emptive effect we might have had upon violent crime in our streets, had we started back in 1995 and spent the billions of dollars wasted upon a long gun registry on registering the violent criminals instead? While I welcome the sudden change in policy, we must never lose sight of the fact that Canada's problem is not duck guns. Our problem is the failure of our politians and courts to deal effectively with violent criminals, concerned as they are with the rights of the accused over the public safety. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:27:23 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: [SPORTS ILLUSTRATED] A More Dangerous Game An excellent article : I had heard the story of the wolf kill before. What I?, got out of it ? Is that theres too many people .Its just that simple. We have to limit our numbers , not those of the animals , beyond what it takes them to reproduce for a healthy population.Both predator and prey. Of course the anti-hunters , anti-gunners and vegetarians MUST take responsibility for any wildlife over population.And the end result of human attacks. They seem to believe that animals are MORE important than people. The annual seal harvest is just one instance . I would like to see the anti`s pay out of their own pocket all the seal hunters so that the sealers wouldnt have to go out on the ice each year. Otherwise what they preach is just so much flatulence.... Its the old story: "money talks bull***t walks." ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Mills" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:45 PM Subject: [SPORTS ILLUSTRATED] A More Dangerous Game > > Too long to post to the Digest, but a good read. > > > http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1148866/index.htm > > November 24, 2008 > > A More Dangerous Game > > Bears On The Golf Course, Deer On The Windshield, Wolves On The Walk Back > Home > > How the decline of hunting is changing the natural order of predator and > prey > > MATTHEW TEAGUE > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, November 27, 2008 11:01 am From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 2" Subject: Wpg Sun Column: ..."violent crimes are not so easily wiped out" PUBLICATION: The Winnipeg Sun DATE: 2008.11.27 EDITION: Final SECTION: Editorial/Opinion PAGE: 11 BYLINE: PAUL TURENNE WORD COUNT: 441 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Not the end of pepper spraying - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Apparently the way to stop thugs from mugging people with pepper spray is to burden small businesses. Believe it or not, that's the theory behind the Manitoba government's new anti-"animal repellent" rules. On Tuesday, Agriculture Minister Rosann Wowchuk announced that the government is going to start charging stores $50 a year to hold licences allowing them to sell bear spray. The stores also have to keep the spray behind the counter, ask for ID when people buy it, and record every sale. According to Wowchuk, the theory is that the added hassle will discourage small retailers from selling pepper spray, thus squeezing the supply. The less pepper spray that is sold, the fewer bottles there are out there. It's not the worst theory, but the end result is more of an acknowledgement of a problem rather than a serious solution to it. People will still get mugged at "pepper-spray-point," believe me. It's been happening in Winnipeg for a long time, and it's pretty common. Winnipeg police say they've seen hundreds of incidents in the past few years where pepper spray was used as a weapon. The government's new rules are an effort to reduce these occurrences. There may well be a reduction, but the question will be how much of one? My guess is not much, although any reduction is a positive thing. I'll admit that getting pepper spray out of dirty little hands is not an easy task. It's not like the government can just outright ban it. The stores market it to campers, runners and hunters. Other than hunters, who have guns and therefore don't need it, these people seem to get some legitimate use out of it. It's also especially helpful to women as a self-defence tool. But like a knife or a screwdriver, pepper spray is a useful tool that is unfortunately used as a weapon at times. So part of the idea behind burdening pepper spray's sale is to try to get the bottles into the right hands to begin with. Again, not the worst theory, but it's where it goes from there that's the problem. Many retailers already followed the rules that were introduced this week, and stores already had the option of denying sales to anyone. In fact, there are no new restrictions on who can buy pepper spray, only who can sell it. So there's no reason that whoever was buying pepper spray two months ago won't be able to do it now, provided they're willing to show ID. Another thing to consider is that there's already so much pepper spray out there that there's plenty of it in the wrong hands as it is. I'm just not convinced that the controlling-the-supply approach is going to make much of a difference. Trying to control guns didn't work, and there are far more restrictions on firearms than there will ever be on pepper spray. If people want to find pepper spray, they will find it. If people want to find pepper spray to use it in a crime, they will find it. And even if we destroyed all the pepper spray in the world and banned it forever, thugs would simply pick up a kitchen knife, a screwdriver, or a board with a nail in it instead. Armed robbery, intimidation, and other violent crimes are not so easily wiped out. http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Columnists/Turenne_Paul/2008/11/27/7550901-sun.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:20:05 -0800 From: Len Miller Subject: Yes, please tell us . . Cc: Mark Bonokoski , Toronto Sun , Wally Craig , Mike.McIntyre@freepress.mb.ca, Licia Corbella The Editor . . Moncton Times Transcript . . (sent) So, Miramichi callously celebrates 10 years of defrauding the Candian public? Perhaps, Times and Transcript could look into the closing of CFB Chatham, formerly RCAF Stn.Chatham, which was an armed forces facility for Canadian defence, and give us the costs for base maintenance? Officers and airmen weren't in a union, so received less pay . . than Miramichi civilians . . Compare if you will, the money SAVED by employing civilians who care not what damage they do to the unsuspecting public? After all, it was jobs, not safety . . . THEN show the same public how many lives this cruel hoax has cost? I suggest you begin with Bob and Bonnie Dagenais, Ragnar( Ray) Michaelson, Bill Abramenko . . all of whom were killed: lacking the defence of a firearm, during a home invasion . . Do you have the journalisitic integrity to actaully look beyond jobs, and tell us how much better closing RCAF Stn. Chatham, and substituting 'gun control' made Canadians lives safer? Remember . . . IF IT SAVES ONE LIFE . . Len Miller veteran RCAF Det retired Vancouver Police Department ------------------------------ Date: Thu, November 27, 2008 1:04 pm From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 2" Subject: Toronto Star: Violent offenders to be tracked; PUBLICATION: The Toronto Star DATE: 2008.11.26 EDITION: Ont SECTION: News PAGE: A13 BYLINE: Robert Benzie SOURCE: Toronto Star WORD COUNT: 315 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Violent offenders to be tracked; New task force of Crown attorneys will follow dangerous recidivists through justice system - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Toronto police Chief Bill Blair said he welcomes a new Ontario task force that will help prosecutors better track dangerous offenders in the provincial justice system. "It really is about focusing on those truly dangerous individuals and making sure the courts have the right information to make the right decisions," Blair said. In a bid to make it harder for violent recidivists to get back on the street, Attorney General Chris Bentley and Public Safety Minister Rick Bartolucci have launched the task force that will provide Crown prosecutors with more information at bail, sentencing and parole hearings. The task force will consist of other Crowns who can bolster front-line prosecutors. "Ontarians have no time for repeat violent crime," Bentley said. Blair said the task force would help "red flag" such criminals as they wind their way through the courts system, although he emphasized there are relatively few in Ontario. "We're talking about hundreds, not thousands," he said. The fledgling panel came out of a two-hour meeting at Queen's Park late yesterday between the ministers and Blair, Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner Julian Fantino and Sudbury police Chief Ian Davidson, president of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police. Bartolucci said the new tactic was not sparked by any one heinous crime in particular. "It's part of a natural evolution," he said, adding he and Bentley routinely meet with the police chiefs. The police chiefs, who have long sought more resources to keep tabs on violent offenders in the criminal justice system, welcomed the move. Fantino acknowledged "cynics" may scoff at yet another task force, but emphasized there are loopholes in the system that can be closed. "There are gaps ... that need to be addressed. We can and should do more." The announcement came a day after Bentley revealed new rules for Ontario families divided by divorce and custody battles, including treating a violation of a restraining order as a criminal offence. The legislation aims to ensure courts know if a potential caregiver has a violent history when making decisions about transferring custody of a child to anyone not their parent. With files from The Canadian Press http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/543356 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:03:41 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Toronto Star - Brampton woman victim of home invasion http://www.thestar.com/GTA/Crime/article/543550 Brampton woman victim of home invasion Nov 26, 2008 10:51 AM Christina Commisso Staff Reporter A 46-year-old woman was held at gunpoint and assaulted last night after two men broke into her Brampton home. The incident occurred around 7 p.m. when two suspects entered the house, near Castlemore Rd. and McVean Dr., through a basement window. Both suspects were wearing masks and one of them had a gun, police say. The woman, who was home alone, tried to flee but the suspects attacked her and tied her hands. The suspects did not take anything from the house or demand anything from the victim and left 20 minutes later, she told police. The victim was treated for minor injuries and released from hospital. Anyone with information is asked to call investigators at (905) 453-2121 ext. 3410. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:18:04 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Riel poems sell for $31,050 at auction- Winnipeg Frre Press - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David R.G. Jordan" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:37 PM Subject: Riel poems sell for $31,050 at auction- Winnipeg Frre Press > Riel poems sell for $31,050 at auction > http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Riel_poems_draw_many_prospective_bidders_.html > > By: Alexandra Paul > 7:45 AM> Historians still debate whether Riel was the freedom fighter > and nation builder he saw himself as or a traitor stirring up trouble > for John A. Macdonald’s dream to build a new confederation from sea to > sea. In MOI I believe he was a true Canadian patriot, fighting for the classless Métis, who were neither native or white. He was classified as a traitor so the government could justify hanging him with a "clear" conscience. ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:12:02 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Toronto Star - Police seek two men for allegedly violating parole http://www.thestar.com/GTA/Crime/article/543315 Police seek two men for allegedly violating parole Nov 25, 2008 09:36 PM Stacey Askew Staff Reporter Police are appealing to the public for help in capturing two alleged parole violators, both believed to be within the Greater Toronto Area. Paul McNamara, 32, is serving a sentence for number of charges including robbery and aggravated assault. He is described as white, six feet tall, 172 lbs., with blue eyes and brown hair. He has a "Menace" tattoo on his abdomen, a tattoo of a cross and five dots on his left hand, a tattoo of a cross on his left forearm and a scar above his right eye. Thomas Laroche, 27, is serving a sentence for break and enter and failing to comply with a probation order. He is white, five foot six, 154 lbs., with brown hair and brown eyes. He has a tattoo of "Steel City" on his neck, tattoos of "ekize" and "662" on his left forearm and a "Kyle" tattoo on his right forearm. Anyone with information is asked to call the Provincial ROPE squad at 416-808-5900 or Crime Stoppers at 416-222-TIPS (8477). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:37:46 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Calgary Herald - Elderly man kills wife, self in couple's Red... http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/city/story.html?id=7583942d-ec22-4151-81be-9e8af0bdc030 Elderly man kills wife, self in couple's Red Deer home Single gunshot killed both, RCMP say Stephane Massinon, Calgary Herald Published: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 Red Deer City RCMP have wrapped up an investigation into an unusual murder-suicide where a 92-year old man killed himself and his 84-year-old wife with a single gunshot. Though police are not revealing how the shot was administered, they said Tuesday that Fred Walker murdered his longtime wife Lily Walker and committed suicide with the one shot. There is no history of reported domestic violence, police say. "I can't comment as to a motive, only Mr.Walker knows ultimately why the events took place," said spokeswoman Const. Sabrina Grunow. The bodies were discovered by a family member Monday morning. Neighbour and longtime friend of the couple Sharon McMurray said the community is shocked at the news. In recent years, especially as Lily developed dementia, Fred yelled at his wife in public and hit her with his cane, McMurray said. McMurray had to speak with Fred about it more than once, she added. "Everyone remembers Fred like that but it's not a big enough thing to report as abuse -- and she would deny it totally." "She would never think of it as abuse; that's the way it's been all her life. The kids wouldn't think of it as abuse because that was 'just dad,' " McMurray said. She said for people of that generation, the husband was the ultimate boss who made decisions regarding family matters. The ages of both killer and victim are unusual. A Herald study of murders between 1992 and 2008 found the average age of murderers to be 32.1 years old and victims 31.8. Of all Calgary murders in that time period, there were 12 murder victims over 65, the oldest of which was 87-year-old Margaret Bakken, who was killed in 2006 by her son who was found not criminally responsible. On the other side, three accused murderers were over 65, including the oldest, 81-year old John George Driscoll, who was also found not criminally responsible. University of Calgary Social Work Prof. Daniel Lai, who studies aging and mental health, said though he does not know the specifics of this case, he said being a family caregiver is often a trying experience for elderly couples and it can change perspective and behaviour. "For family caregivers, who spend hours and hours of time at home providing care, the situation appears to be never-ending and only deteriorating. It's very frustrating for individuals. It really pushes the threshold of the tolerance level in terms of how they cope with the anger, the frustration and it affects the individual's motivation to continue to live," said Lai. But despite the way the two met their ultimate end, McMurray said she hopes to remember them as the couple who loved to go to the Legion to dance and who took frequent bus tours. They also kept their yard immaculate. "I'd rather remember them as that then as poor old people who just outlived their time, "McMurray said. Smassinon@theherald.Canwest.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:08:14 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Toronto Star - Police seek suspects in two robberies http://www.thestar.com/GTA/Crime/article/543453 Police seek suspects in two robberies Nov 26, 2008 06:28 AM Jesse McLean Staff Reporter Police are searching for suspects after two separate robberies in the city's west end. The first incident happened around 1:40 a.m. when a man entered a Petro-Canada at Dundas St. W. and The East Mall. The assailant, described as a white man in his mid-30s, knocked out the clerk before stealing cash. The second hold up happened 20 minutes later at a doughnut shop on Browns Line, just south of Evans Ave. The suspect revealed a silver handgun to the cashier and demanded money. He fled down a nearby alleyway. He is described as white and in his late teens. Anyone with information pertaining to either robbery is asked to call 22 Division at 416-808-2200. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:41:39 -0800 From: Len Miller Subject: Why C-68 must be rescinded Cc: Peter VanLoan From: Anderson,Charlie(The Province ) CAnderson@theprovince.com Subject: RE: May I?? Date: November 26, 2008 10:20:25 PST To: roadrunner144@telus.net New West man shoots himself as police seize gun collection The Province Monday, July 28, 2003 Page: A13 Section: News Byline: Adrienne Tanner Source: The Province Jack Gentle was a 30-year Canada Post worker who never married and lived in a house on Eighth Avenue in New Westminster until he suffered a stroke. On paper, the only thing that stands out about his life was a lifelong passion for guns. His collection on June 19, when the RCMP came with a search warrant to seize it, consisted of 84 firearms (some antiques, some replicas) and two rocket launchers. As police carted off the arsenal from a home on Victoria Drive in Coquitlam, where friends were caring for him, he sneaked inside and turned one errant handgun on himself, says RCMP Cpl. Tom James. "When someone is not under arrest, they're free to walk around so long as they don't impede the search," James said. "He was able to . . . lock the door and barricade himself." The investigating officers were shocked by Gentle's death. A search warrant released last week reveals the raid was initiated after two of the elderly collector's weapons surfaced at crime scenes in Alberta. One, a semi-automatic pistol, was seized in Calgary from people believed to be involved in illegal street gang activities. (gang bangers??) Gentle was recovering from a stroke when the guns vanished, so police turned to Westley Baker, Gentle's friend and an army surplus store owner, who had power of attorney over Gentle's property. According to the warrant, Baker said under questioning he only knew the whereabouts of between five and 25 of the weapons. He also said that Gentle's former home had been broken into before it was sold. (could this have happened when Gentle was hospitalized with his stroke?) Baker could not be reached for comment. Police obtained a warrant to search for the weapons. The collection included an 1879 Enfield, an 1895 Winchester rifle, three Mauser handguns and dozens of others. The RCMP 'investigation' continues. - ---------- From: Len Miller Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:18 PM To: ProvLetters (VAN_Exchange) Subject:May I?? Canada New West Man Shoots Himself as Police Seize Gun Collection Vancouver Province 28 Jul 2003 Jack Gentle was a 30-year Canada Post worker who never married and lived in a house on Eighth Avenue in New Westminster until he suffered a stroke. On paper, the only thing that stands out about his life was a lifelong passion for guns. His collection on June 19, when the RCMP came with a search warrant to seize it, consisted of 84 firearms (some antiques, some replicas) and two rocket launchers. As police carted off the arsenal from a home on Victoria Drive* in Coquitlam, where friends were caring for him, he sneaked inside and turned one errant handgun on himself, says RCMP Cpl. Tom James. "When someone is not under arrest, they're... ( gunpolicy.org ) Read More:Vancouver Province Len asks . . May I have the entire story please? Actually the place was Quarry Road* . . Coquitlam Len ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:46:38 -0800 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Our Poor MPs The Finance Minister is expected to announce cutbacks on some parliamentary perks next week. Some restrictions on air travel and the likelihood of having to travel 'tourist' instead of 'business' class. However, with a salary of $155,400, I'm sure many will opt to upgrade at their own expense and claim the difference on income tax. Now about those haircuts and cafeteria meals ..... Having endured the joys of flying 'tourist' to Toronto and back, bolt upright in a seat barely wide enough for my skinny ass, rubbing elbows with a 250 pounder and craning my neck to see the mid-aisle movie screen, I sympathize. It ought to be called 'steerage' class. The real hell of it was being right behind 1st class and seeing the never ending flow of food, drinks and goodies. TB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:19:11 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: Bear Spray On 27-Nov-08, at 1:55 PM, Todd Birch wrote: > ... . > I was not comfortable visiting Canada where the law allows an > average (Georgia) house > cat more rights of self-preservation than it does me." ... . > > Gee, I wonder what house cats are packing in Georgia? ... . Have you ever refused to let go of a cat - any cat - when the cat indicated it wanted down ? Sincerely, Eduardo ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V12 #693 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:drg.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)