Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, January 29 2009 Volume 12 : Number 1000 In this issue: Forms of government Re: CTV - CIDA staff spent big for first-class flights *NFR* [none] Who is to blame for our not having property rights Property rights, gun laws, Ponzi and the law as a living being pistol club, Hamilton ON? Toronto Star - Ban insults to police, Montreal council urged Re: Toronto Star - Ban insults to police, Montreal council urged Re: Who is to blame for our not having property rights Re: Who is to blame for our not having property rights PETA ad banned from Super Bowl Re: Toews discounts accountability criticism Rhode Reunited - The Outdoor Wire for Thurs., Jan. 29 RE: PETA ad banned from Super Bowl Fw: PET & Property Rights ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:37:14 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Forms of government An explanation of the different forms of government. http://wimp.com/thegovernment/ ============================ Ours is a Constitutional Monarchy, though the concept behind the Charter is to limit the power of the state by way of constitutional rights, similar to what is here described as a Republic. In describing the Charter Trudeau's description of individual sovereignty was delegated to elected representatives not given up to them, was right out of the theory of Natural Rights. Though our political bureaucracy have largely kept this idea neglected, if not hidden. The theory exists what is lacking is a large enough group of citizens pushing for the public debate and holding the government to account. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:04:47 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: CTV - CIDA staff spent big for first-class flights *NFR* - --- On Wed, 1/28/09, Bruce Mills wrote: > "Might that suck? Maybe. But it's not their money. > It's our money." > > Travel, entertainment, hospitality and consultation fees > are the first > things private-sector companies cut when times get tight, > Gaudet said. He > called on the federal government to follow that example. Whatever happened to "teleconferencing"? Nobody really has to go to f*ing Ghana for a convention... Yours in LIBERTY! Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 05:13:02 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca (Majordomo) Subject: [none] - ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: BOUNCE cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca: Approval required: From: owner-cdn-firearms@bogend.ca Date: Thu, January 29, 2009 2:44 am To: drgj@bogend.ca - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca >From owner-cdn-firearms@bogend.ca Thu Jan 29 02:44:26 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by scoprion.bogend.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D308321C5DE for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:44:26 - -0600 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at bogend.ca Received: from scoprion.bogend.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (scorpion.bogend.ca [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id pK4aVQM4mqBm for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:44:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.25]) by scoprion.bogend.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783F221C5DC for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:44:20 - -0600 (CST) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id d26so67693eyd.59 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:47:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kjcxEQbvfcHXI4y+806A6wdkr887OdWDF+sSKZHIMe0=; b=H34WeHvPGWUwxYdQmWELvaNezU/Kvy0fWMGCyH6SWYaWTXVz8xyF3jpwt53/LQw0Hq EeTAjGAUeSY3Tw7R8QvXj5xIPmYSR1QMKkIolGq5k2xNQTJDT8PVc87URkII96StfdcQ fV625Tcdk0Kga9x2qGLzYjCOZRTuorgwtGPNM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=XY7PWBFAnAvJ5yncK65YvqJ911gO4XssxCNpQUju0uIDedluJtHuiMZnoqr8c7h9E1 41GrPNuPUgmPnTjtcPLFdu3Z2M8NIDNCiD+ZQ0vIh60UMh7AvWTu5hiMnl71rMvU3xfn e5N1ytLFxOqFw5plWZ1BuW1phyg+e1sPmzyjA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.112.1 with SMTP id k1mr3860802ebc.31.1233218511551; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:41:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:41:51 +1300 Message-ID: <913c9c630901290041j2b1e5dabo97ba004b236226b5@mail.gmail.com> Subject: pistol club, Hamilton ON? From: Walter Martindale To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi gang, A bit ironic - I've been forwarded a query that arrived at the Hamilton, New Zealand pistol club, asking if there were any pistol clubs in Hamilton, Ontario, with handgun shooting courses. so. Are there? If you let me know, there may be a Katie showing up to learn to shoot and become a member. She didn't specify what type of shooting. I'm an ISSF type, but IPSC, Action Pistol, PPC, Silhouette, and others, but if you can let me knows what's in Hamilton I can pass on the info. Cheers, Walter (ex Alberta and Saskatchewan shooter) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:15:56 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Who is to blame for our not having property rights I am no great lover of P.E.Trudeau, but one must give him his due. He wanted property rights included in the constitution, but without exception the premiers of the provinces rejected it. Just to get the record straight. Jules - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jules, Have you a source for this? Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:22:52 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Property rights, gun laws, Ponzi and the law as a living being There is a middle ground for the extention of property rights. Perhaps we should entertain an area somewhere between your scenario and the reality in Canada. If all govts. were fair, perhaps they would offer to buy our properties with just compensation. But that is not always the case and not even usually the case. What if the govt. intends to mistreat us and expropriate our property for no good reason and with little or no compensation? Also, what if we don't want to sell and we are at loggerheads with Steve? The courts become involved, if we have property rights. Without property rights, I understand, we go to an expropriation hearing. Hypothetically, the govt. could make a law which in effect renders our properties illegal, and therefore subject to seizure with no just compensation. If we had property rights we could invoke them into service. Due process of law would come into play to determine if the govt.'s action was necessary, legal and just. If the expropriation is upheld by the court (s) including appeals, then win or lose, we should still be justly compensated for our properties. Property rights are necessary for a free society. The govt. has been unjustly seizing our property such as firearms, pension plans, businesses or control of businesses, without due process and just compensation for a long time. The problem is that this kind of unscrupulous govt. activity is not publicized enough. There are too many Canadians ignorant of the fact that there is no defense for seizure of our private property from the govt. within the Charter. Referring again to your scenario. Do we have our own selfish interests standing against the public good or are we protecting our hard earned interests from the "good will" schemes of bureaucrats, self interest groups and politicians? Property rights make things inconvenient for governments. Govts. have projects they would like to do and do quickly. Govts. have supporters they would like to reward with property taken from others. There are many more regulations they could cheaply employ by not having to deal with property owners, their rights, due process of law and just compensation. A free society has a price and some of the costs a govt. must pay is not always being able to do things in the most expedient, the most direct, the most profitable and in the most advantageous ways because of civil liberties. To entrench property rights into the Charter is difficult. The Canadian Constitution is nearly unamendable. [Part V Procedure for amending Constitution of Canada (99)] You are correct. It is in the BNA section of the Constitution Act Well, like someone once said, we are not selecting the topping on a pizza. We are dealing with rights and freedoms here. Our liberties are not negotiable! Our rights and freedoms never cease to exist. However, the govt. of the day may chose and does chose to supress them, such as our right to property and our right to arms for their defence. Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:41:51 +1300 From: Walter Martindale Subject: pistol club, Hamilton ON? [CFD-Mod IGJ oops repost without all the mail header junk] Hi gang, A bit ironic - I've been forwarded a query that arrived at the Hamilton, New Zealand pistol club, asking if there were any pistol clubs in Hamilton, Ontario, with handgun shooting courses. so. Are there? If you let me know, there may be a Katie showing up to learn to shoot and become a member. She didn't specify what type of shooting. I'm an ISSF type, but IPSC, Action Pistol, PPC, Silhouette, and others, but if you can let me knows what's in Hamilton I can pass on the info. Cheers, Walter (ex Alberta and Saskatchewan shooter) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:31:27 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Toronto Star - Ban insults to police, Montreal council urged http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/577758 Ban insults to police, Montreal council urged 'Doughnut eater' slur could prove costly under proposed ban Jan 27, 2009 04:30 AM Comments on this story (46) Andy Blatchford THE CANADIAN PRESS MONTREAL - Montreal police have asked the city to make it illegal for citizens to hurl insults such as "pig" and "doughnut eater" at officers. Mayor Gerald Tremblay said yesterday his public security committee is mulling the request by Montreal's police brotherhood to slap offenders with fines. The union wants Tremblay to make it illegal for the public to fire insults at police, regardless of whether they are profanity-laced. "It's something that will be addressed – we know that other cities have passed some bylaws considering that subject," said Tremblay, who stressed that the city has not made any concrete decisions about banning indignities directed at police. Chief-Insp. Paul Chablo, communications director for Montreal's police force, said lawyers from the department and the city are examining the feasibility of such a rule. "The key factor is ensuring that it becomes a useful tool for the officers involved, but at the same time it doesn't infringe on anybody's rights," he said. Chablo said several municipalities across Quebec - including Quebec City - have some variation of a law that prohibits citizens from spewing slurs at police officers. The 28-year veteran of the force said the law could keep police interventions involving violent citizens from getting out of hand. But while city council digests the demand to prevent civilians from mouthing off at cops, some experts question whether punishing Montrealers for launching jeers infringes on one's right to expression. "There are an awful lot of words that are borderline and it's highly subjective - it's too vague," said Ronald Sklar, a McGill University law professor. Sklar said words can be punishable, but they must threaten bodily harm or incite disorder. Montreal was also expected to pass a motion last night to meet another police request. The city is considering a bylaw amendment that would prohibit protesters from covering their faces during demonstrations, except in certain situations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:18:54 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Toronto Star - Ban insults to police, Montreal council urged - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Mills" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:31 PM Subject: Toronto Star - Ban insults to police, Montreal council urged > http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/577758 > > Ban insults to police, Montreal council urged > 'Doughnut eater' slur could prove costly under proposed ban > > Jan 27, 2009 04:30 AM > Comments on this story (46) > Andy Blatchford > THE CANADIAN PRESS > > MONTREAL - Montreal police have asked the city to make it illegal for > citizens to hurl insults such as "pig" and "doughnut eater" at officers. > Considering Montreal police the remark isn't too far off from what I`ve heard ? However the most common joke around here is : "if you want a cop call Tim Horton's." ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:25:46 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Who is to blame for our not having property rights - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Gingrich" To: "Canadian Firearms Digest" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:15 AM Subject: Who is to blame for our not having property rights > I am no great lover of P.E.Trudeau, but one must give him his due. He > wanted property rights included in the constitution, but without exception > the premiers of the provinces rejected it. > > Just to get the record straight. > > Jules > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jules, > > Have you a source for this? > > Joe I heard the same thing as well many years ago however to keep me honest ? I hated that SOB more than Mulruiney/Chretien ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:37:44 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: Who is to blame for our not having property rights On 29-Jan-09, at 4:15 AM, Joe Gingrich wrote in response to Jules: > > I am no great lover of P.E.Trudeau, but one must give him his due. He > wanted property rights included in the constitution, but without > exception > the premiers of the provinces rejected it. > > Just to get the record straight. > > Jules > - --------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --------- > Jules, > > Have you a source for this? > > Joe "In its decision in the Patriation Reference (1981), the Supreme Court of Canada had ruled there was a tradition that some provincial approval should be sought for constitutional reform. As the provinces still had doubts about the Charter's merits, Trudeau was forced to accept the notwithstanding clause to allow governments to opt out of certain obligations. The notwithstanding clause was accepted as part of a deal called the Kitchen Accord, negotiated by the federal Attorney General Jean Chrétien, Ontario's justice minister Roy McMurtry and Saskatchewan's justice minister Roy Romanow. Pressure from provincial governments (which in Canada have jurisdiction over property) and from the country's left wing, especially the New Democratic Party, also prevented Trudeau from including any rights protecting private property." taken from: Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:37:41 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: PETA ad banned from Super Bowl Sexy PETA Ad Banned From Super Bowl (Jan. 28) - NBC has deemed a PETA commercial featuring lingerie-clad models demonstrating their fondness for veggies too sexy for the Super Bowl, the animal rights group said. The spot, titled 'Veggie Love,' shows the beauties relishing their passion for produce in a series of steamy scenes. One suggestively rubs asparagus down her bare torso, another lovingly caresses a spear of broccoli, while a third enjoys a vegetable bubble bath. [Why is my monitor fogging up]? The tagline at the end reads, "Studies show vegetarians have better sex. Go veg." [Them's fightin' words. And how would they know, if they've never tried meat? We have several credentialed types and a whole bunch of good ole boys 'in this place' who might have grounds to dispute PETA's claim. Harrumph]! Might the moderator accept a few Redneck jokes? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *** Only a couple please, preferably firearm related if at all possible, and only if they're something "tastefully" new, and not something that's made the rounds of the entire Internet, more than a few times, okay. CFD Moderator- DRGJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:04:16 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Toews discounts accountability criticism I had faithfully reported: >> The article creates the impression that decisions on which >> information to release or protect is driven at the political level. >> That is absolutely false. >> >> [Bull feathers Mr. Toews. I have been ASSURED that my MP >> can't give me an answer to questions until 'an answer' is >> formulated and assuaged by the PMO]. Bruce commented, tongue planted firmly in cheek: > I suppose you have this in writing, Lee? Write a letter to the Freep, or > contact one of their reporters of columnists with this info - I'm sure > they'd love to ram Toews' words down his throat... We all KNOW that our open and accountable fed gov't DOESN'T provide written responses to virtually anything - lest it stops being unaccountable. Let's see, I've got a couple of responses to over 30 submissions over the last 5 years. Remember, unlike believing it's a Right to rec'g a response from our provincial gov't because it actually faithfully responds, getting a reply from our fed gov't is an absolute privilege. The Harperites basic tenant is for minimal gov't; what can you expect from minimalists. I'd bet that Bill Casey replies to his constituents. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:24:48 -0600 From: "David R.G. Jordan" Subject: Rhode Reunited - The Outdoor Wire for Thurs., Jan. 29 The Outdoor Wire for Thursday, January 29 Contact: editor@theoutdoorwire.com The Outdoor Wire Archives http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/archives.html To Subscribe: http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/ Rhode Reunited Images & Caption Rhode and her MX12 have grown up together. The media turned out in force to see Rhode and her Perazzi reunited. Photo courtesy Riverside County Sheriff's Department. Perris, California - Like most good news, it came completely out of the blue. The Riverside Sheriff's Department called Kim Rhode late Tuesday night to inform her that they had recovered the shotgun Rhode had used throughout her record-setting shooting career. The gun was, according to officials, seized during a routine parole inspection of Gregorio Macias, 22 of Perris. When officers inspected the convicted felon's residence, they recovered guns and methamphetamines. A check of the serial number (#84961, incidentally) on the gun in a case under his bed revealed it had been stolen -and led to a call to Riverside investigators. Stolen from her truck on September 11, 2008, that gun had been a constant companion in Rhode's entire competition shooting career. It had been used in each of her four Olympic medal-winning performances. Speaking with the media at the time of the theft, a tearful Rhode said "there's just no words to describe what the gun means to me...(it's) a part of me. I've traveled all over the world with it." Now, it appears they will once again be traveling together. The journey that Rhode's Perazzi MX12 took from the time it was stolen from her truck in a Lake Elsinore outlet center until it's recovery Tuesday evening is not yet known. Riverside sheriff's officers continue the investigation, hoping to track down the two other men in a dark red Ford Expedition they believe smashed a window in Rhode's truck and grabbed her gun. According to police officials, Macias has offered no assistance in the investigation, although he is believed to have been associated with the two other men police are still seeking. Considering the fact he was caught with firearms (including one with the serial numbers removed) and methamphetamines, there may be a chance Macias may offer information to authorities in an attempt to improve his own chances in the justice system. Rhode, meanwhile, says she has no ill will toward the man, saying "there's always hope" that he can be rehabilitated. If the gun had been damaged, however, she laughingly said "that might have been another story." "I'm so ecstatic," she told me, "it's in perfect condition and in the original case. Other than the stickers having been taken off and a lock broken on the case, it's immaculate." When she got word late Tuesday night that her gun had been recovered, Rhode said it made for a long night. "I didn't get much sleep," she confessed, "I was in shock and disbelief." "It's been with me from the get-go," Rhode said, "It's a part of me. Every nick or dent triggers a memory." According to Rhode, officers simply refused to let the case die. "The original investigator (Inspector Charles Donivan)" she said, "had never given up and has gone over and over photos and videos from the truck and the parking lot, and, well, he kept it alive." Rhode was also quick to give the entire outdoor community credit for "stepping up" and getting the word out about the theft. She remains convinced that spreading of the word about the shotgun was instrumental in its safe return. "Everyone was great about getting the word out and being so supportive, it helped me get through it all." While we were enjoying the fact that gun and shooter had once again been reunited, I asked Rhode if she would be returning the gun that had been given to her to replace her stolen one. "Everyone stepped up to get me that gun," Kim laughed, "and I plan to use it, along with my old gun. I'm thinking I'll never have just a single gun again." Besides, I said, both of the guns are missing the stickers that Rhode had collected from her numerous competition wins. "I'm planning on getting more stickers," she said, "and I plan to include one from London (the next Olympics). This has helped me decide that for the next Olympics, I'm sure going for it." Personally, I wouldn't bet against her. - --Jim Shepherd ©2009 The Outdoor Wire. All Rights Reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:22:45 -0500 From: TONY KATZ Subject: RE: PETA ad banned from Super Bowl I thought 'vegetarian' was an old indian word meaning lousy hunter. PETA, People Eating Tasty Animals. > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:37:41 -0500 > From: leejasper@amtelecom.net > Subject: PETA ad banned from Super Bowl > To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > Sexy PETA Ad Banned From Super Bowl > > (Jan. 28) - NBC has deemed a PETA commercial featuring lingerie-clad > models demonstrating their fondness for veggies too sexy for the Super > Bowl, the animal rights group said. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:40:33 -0700 From: "Med Crotteau" Subject: Fw: PET & Property Rights - ----- Original Message ----- From: Willy Floyd To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:28 AM Subject: PET & Property Rights To All: How short are our memories. When PET announced like a Caesar that the provinces had 90 days to reach agreement on the inclusion of Property Rights (Provincial jurisdiction) it was a foregone conclusion that no such thing could or would happen. Our Premiers sold us out but PET led the band. Collusion at the highest level and we pay for it every day. They traded our birthright for their own glory, including the PEI "Bridge to Nowhere" Once PET had sewed up the eastern premiers there were no more goodies handed out west of Manitoba. They got the Red River diversion project and SK, AB and BC got the door. Read "Canada and the Constitution 1979-1982" by Professor McWhinney and articles by other writers of the time. Centralized Government at its worst. And that is why Canada will remain Third World until we find enough courage to revolt, leave Confederation and then rewrite the rule book. Willy ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V12 #1000 ************************************ Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:drg.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)