Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, February 2 2009 Volume 13 : Number 008 In this issue: the abject failure of 74 years of 'gun control' in Canada CITY-TV - Three Hurt In West End Shooting CITY-TV - Police Hunt For Shooting Suspects Toronto Star - Charter challenge: Civil liberties vs. justice Toronto Star - Suspects sought in Dufferin Mall robbery Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #5 On "Polytechnique", the movie Dave Tomlinson Re: Tory to run in HKLB - Ontario Reform Party ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:38:29 -0800 From: Len Miller Subject: the abject failure of 74 years of 'gun control' in Canada Headline . . Death penalty abolished in Canada . . first lie . . except for the killing of police and prison guards . . Broadcast Date: July 14, 1976 Does the government have the right to take the life of one of its citizens? For the first time, the Canadian government says no. After a decade of fierce debate and an impassioned, last-minute speech by Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, the House of Commons narrowly passes Bill C-84, abolishing the death penalty in Canada. the last lie : for the killing of police and prison guards . Len sez: Government (s) have spoken ( some have kicked opponents out of caucus . . ) that only criminals may have the death penalty. Which explains our present gang murders . . Having created the problem . . the state will now sit back with the washed hands of Pilate . . That once a criminal imposes the death penalty, government will immediately provide legal aid . . Governments have further improved the ability of criminals to impose the death penalty by taking away one of the deterrents . . a 'job' hazard . . if you will . . by denying the right of potential victims to protect themselves . .. ( Bob and Bonnie Dagenais) a job hazard to the criminal . . I say . . . Using such non sequiturs as: ''if it saves one life'', and continuing with the most outrageous lying ever heard. the state now enjoys 'downsizing' capital murder to manslaughter . and meting out 'J' walking sentences . . 'J' strokes I calls it . . Those who still think they have the right of self defence will be brought sharply into line . . age and infirmity won't count . . ( Ray Michealson, Vancouver, Ray was widower veteran killed in a home invasion ). Had he a firearm, Ray could not be charged because he thoughtfully died . . There seems to be a beacon of hope though . . the right to carry knives is firmly entrenched in BC . . ( Sulland vs Crown ?) Two deaths yesterday, seems to have favourable mention . . at least it wasn't with guns . The media ( the D'oh zone ) can't seem to make any distinction with the manner of murder ( knife vs gun) and blame the failure of making the link . . on the police . . not themselves . . Ah, me . . Len Miller Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 15:17:11 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: CITY-TV - Three Hurt In West End Shooting http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_31550.aspx Three Hurt In West End Shooting Sunday February 1, 2009 CityNews.ca Staff Three people are in hospital after a brazen early morning shooting - and it's believed at least one of the victims made it there on his own. Two men and one woman were attacked at 1764 Weston Road just before 8am Sunday. All three went to hospital to be treated for their injuries, but it's not known if they were all shot. At least one of the victims sustained gunshot wounds and it appears that he then drove himself, or was driven, to hospital. Officers have cordoned off a crime scene in the west end and another one at the medical facility as police search the vehicle. There's no word on the suspect or suspects. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 15:21:21 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: CITY-TV - Police Hunt For Shooting Suspects http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_31723.aspx StreetBeat - Feb. 01 - Police Hunt For Shooting Suspects Sunday February 1, 2009 CityNews.ca Staff Toronto Police are looking for four men after a shooting Saturday night. Officers allege that the gunfire broke out around 7:30pm in a townhouse on Tandridge Crescent. When they arrived on scene, they found a man with what are believed to be bullet wounds. He was taken to hospital and luckily, he is expected to survive. Cops allege that the suspects left the scene in a black Nissan Maxima. They're described as: * male * brown complexion If you can help, call police at 416-808-2304 or Crime Stoppers anonymously at 416-222-TIPS (8477). __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 15:38:24 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Toronto Star - Charter challenge: Civil liberties vs. justice http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/580536 Charter challenge: Civil liberties vs. justice Should evidence police gather by breaking rules be used against accused in = serious crimes? Feb 01, 2009 04:30 AM Comments on this story (89) Tracey Tyler LEGAL AFFAIRS REPORTER A judge of the Ontario Court of Appeal said he worries Canadians will treat the Charter of Rights and Freedoms with disdain if courts routinely throw out evidence of serious crime because it has been obtained through police misconduct. Speaking at a legal symposium in Toronto yesterday, Justice Michael Moldave r said it's time for courts to develop a more "nuanced" approach to deciding whether a prosecution should grind to a halt when police break the rules. "Believe it or not, I worry about the public loss of respect for the Charte r," Moldaver said while moderating a panel discussion at the Ontario Bar As sociation's annual conference. The Charter's exclusionary clause sec. 24.(2) allows judges to throw out tainted evidence if its admission at a trial would bring the administration of justice into "disrepute." Doing so often spells the end of a case. But Moldaver questioned what the justice system and society accomplishes by excluding evidence such as guns or drugs when the officer misconduct that led to its seizure wasn't standard operating procedure for a police force, but simply the actions of a rogue investigator. "What are we doing?" he asked. But Frank Addario, president of the Criminal Lawyers' Association, said unless judges are prepared to make the tough calls and throw out evidence obtained in violation of a suspect's constitutional rights, there's little chance police will stop breaking the law. Instead, "the message (from the courts) is, 'Whenever police are going to investigate a serious crime, take chances with civil liberties, cut corners if you hit the jackpot, we will reward you by admitting the evidence,' " he said. So far, police forces have shown little appetite for disciplining officers who run afoul of the Charter, Addario added, pointing to the case of Benjam in Harrison, who was pulled over on the Trans-Canada Highway near Kenora in 2004 with 35 kilograms of cocaine hidden in his SUV. An Ontario Provincial Police constable had no grounds for stopping Harrison and even lied in court about the incident, yet there's no evidence he was ever disciplined, Addario noted. In a 2-1 decision last year, Associate Chief Justice Dennis O'Connor and Justice James MacPherson of the Ontario Court of Appeal approved the trial judge's decision to admit the evidence, arguing in part that while the officer's conduct was wrong, there was no indication it was the result of a systemic OPP problem. Justice Eleanore Cronk dissented, accusing the majority of minimizing what the officer did. The case is now before the Supreme Court of Canada. Yesterday, Moldaver said his judicial colleagues who wrote the majority decision in the Harrison case may well have decided to exclude the evidence if, instead of stopping Harrison on the highway, the officer had "busted into this person's house unannounced and done this." "Maybe we'd say that's the kind of egregious conduct our society simply will not tolerate and the evidence is going out. ... Maybe if the police officer threatened, or extorted or whatever, maybe we will say we will not live in a country like this." Part of the problem for police officers trying to stay within the bounds of the law is that the Supreme Court and Parliament have devised a confusing "labyrinth" of rules that vary according to the type of search being conducted, said Crown counsel Michal Fairburn, another panelist. Fairburn and Moldaver said it's time for Parliament to consolidate the rules into more user-friendly guidelines that both officers and judges can better understand. Addario said all judges also have an obligation to educate the public when a decision to throw out evidence ends a prosecution. In their decisions, he said, judges should say: "If you are angry about the result in this case, you should not be angry at the defendant or the court. You should be angry at the police officer who made the deliberate decision to ignore the Charter." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 15:42:31 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Toronto Star - Suspects sought in Dufferin Mall robbery http://www.thestar.com/GTA/Crime/article/580495 Suspects sought in Dufferin Mall robbery Jan 31, 2009 08:07 PM Christina Commisso staff reporter Police are looking for three female suspects after the Urban Behaviour in Dufferin Mall was robbed and an employee attacked on Friday. Around 11:30 a.m. three women entered the store. They began to take merchandise and hide it. When the sales representatives noticed the women, one of the suspects grabbed her by the neck and punched her, while another suspect threatened her with a pair of scissors. All three women fled the store in different directions. Anyone with information is asked to call police at 14 Division at 416-808-1400. __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:30:11 -0700 From: "Barry Snow" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #5 > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:36:35 -0500 > From: > Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #3 > > Anyone else support a Dave Tomlinson(DAT) memorial trophy and award > annually in Canada,, say in the 100$ price range? > > Nobody in Canada yet has done so much "hands on" for the firearms > community and support for safe shooting sports and promotion of same to > date, he was there in court, or present for support while others just > talked about it . > > What say you? > > I say no one ever did more to convince people to comply with the law. The C68 Titanic had just barely enough support to keep it alive. I am ashamed that I sucked into the compliance regime. I convinced quite a few gun owners into complying based on his theories. I supposed that the DAT line is why Dr. Mike finally quite threatening to move to the US and complied himself. Flawed piece after flawed piece of legislation was corrected as he pointed out the errors to the masters as he promoted Laycock's NFA practical firearms control system. Then He annihilated the NFA by appointing Jim Hinter to president. Who by the way had all the sincereity of an undercover RCMP who was embarrassed by his achievement. I actually think that there was no one who did more to keep Chapter 39 alive. regards, Barry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 18:36:21 -0500 From: Yvon Dionne Subject: On "Polytechnique", the movie The problem with these so-called historical movies that pretend to be documentaries is that they are usually far from the facts and their sponsors have a political agenda, and usually socialist or creeping communists. But most people who will see this will become believers of the movie as a factual image of the events. Again, men are seen as the spagegoat of all violence, while most men are trying to protect women and their children (and women usually seek a life pension). The feminists have won at least on one point : to discredit themselves. This is well set to commemorate the 30th anniversary of Dec. 6, 1989. The premier of Quebec may even present another phony legislation for the occasion..., such as the previous Bill Anastasia. Why not a Bill entitled "Bill Karine Vanasse", a childish character in all her movies (I prefer much more the actress Sarah Polley), to prohibit all handguns and semi-automatic rifles ? Jean Charest wanted to be elected to face a crisis. Which one ? Federal transfer payments ? His climate control agenda ? His firearms prohibition agenda ? His failure to... control his own government spending ? Yesterday, there was a special insert in the Quebec city daily Le Soleil (I did not check on the web, but could see Le Soleil at http://www.cyberpresse.ca ). What a joke ! What a pretension to show a fiction as the actual events ! The insert says (my translation) that Polytechnique wants to draw a meaning to the tragedy, so that hope may subsist ("Polytechnique se veut plutôt une façon de donner un sens à la tragédie pour que l'espoir subsiste."). For myself, I would hope, so that hope may subsist..., that there would be more Rambos here. But governements and the feminists (women in search of a political matriarchy, with no children...) prefer «les hommes roses» (pinkish men). Il there had been a Rambo at Polytechnique, well just too bad for Lépine and there would have been no... movie ! No Karine to play with Rambo, for obvious feminist reasons because of the actual feminist agenda within the Quebec government. At the École Polytechnique, an engineering part of the University of Montreal (where I studied in Economics and left in 1966), it is an honour that women could become engineers. I cheer to that. No need to be a feminist or to have a feminist movie to understand that. No need for a roseate-pinky government to tell us that all men are potentially dangerous ! What's amazing about all this story is that although most complaints for violence within couples come from women, very few are retained by the courts, and women who have made a false statement never get sued. Yvon Dionne http://www.yvondionne.org ====================================================== Date: Sat, January 31, 2009 12:58 pm From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 2" Subject: Quebec movie revisits killer's rampage at Ecole polytechnique - - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca NOTE: A version of this Canadian Press article also appeared today in the Cape Breton Post http://news.therecord.com/arts/article/480082 ======================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 19:41:45 -0700 From: "Jim Szpajcher" Subject: Dave Tomlinson Folks - Having read Med's and Barry's posts regarding D.A.T., I thought to throw this bit in also: Dave Tomlinson was the single largest influence on my approach to fighting C-68. He advocated following the law, because it is against the law to advocate otherwise. While I have supported a number of groups in the fight against C-68, I honestly felt that the NFA had the best chance to defeat it. Sadly, that all came for naught with Hinter, which is a real shame. When I lived in Airdrie, I used to drop into the NFA office in Calgary pretty regularly and chat with Laycock and then Hinter, and it was with genuine sorrow that I watched the NFA implode. I also personally knew Dale Blue, Gord Hitchens and Peter Kearns. I valued the work they did to organize against and resist the Liberal anti-gun steam-roller. Having said that, I'd cheerfully contribute to a DAT memorial trophy. He may have had feet of clay, but his working knowledge of firearms legislation has yet to be superseded. I looked to him as a valued resource. I was proud to go to his funeral, and I miss his presence on the firearms scene immensely. Jim Szpajcher St. Paul, AB - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:36 PM Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #3 > > Anyone else support a Dave Tomlinson(DAT) memorial trophy and award > annually in Canada,, say in the 100$ price range? > > Nobody in Canada yet has done so much "hands on" for the firearms > community and support for safe shooting sports and promotion of same to > date, he was there in court, or present for support while others just > talked about it . > > What say you? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 00:33:04 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Tory to run in HKLB - Ontario Reform Party Ian asked: > Are the Ontario Reform Party running a candidate? If so,this would be > the perfect option for us. > > www.newcanada.ca/ > > Ian I say we get a few folk up there to get on this. Minimally, maybe we can gain some scratch with Tory. Heck, it's one riding where a 'Shooter's Party' type person would gain some support, probably even beat out the Greens. Commented by MrEd: > Ontario Reform party?I thought Reform had been assimilated by the > Conservatives? > > ed/on Nope, it's life has been short but it still exists. See: > http://www.newcanada.ca/ And the Ontario Reform Party will run in HKLB: ""BY-ELECTION COMING UP IN 2009: We are running a candidate in the upcoming by-election in the riding of HALIBURTON-KAWARTHA LAKES-BROCK, expected this spring. If you have an interest in seeking the Reform Ontario nomination or in helping this important election effort, contact our head office at the phone number or email address below. This election will pit us against Ontario PC leader John Tory and Liberal candidate Rick Johnson, as well as a few other candidates. We expect to see an interesting 3-way race develop here. So far, we have had three individuals express an interest in this nomination. A Candidate Search Committee has been assembled, with the aim of holding the NOMINATION MEETING in mid-March 2009 in Lindsay. The chair of this campaign is James Blair, the co-chair is Phil Miller, our Executive Director. Party Leader Brad Harness will be very involved in this by-election campaign. Our goal is to elect our first-ever Reform Ontario MPP. Your help is needed, your financial support is needed, too."" How about it Jules? Crank up the ole Preston Manning forces. Front for the Ontario Reform Party in HKLB. - --------- The Party 'Vision for Ontario' is here. > http://www.newcanada.ca/The_New_Ontario_Vision.htm Reform Party Policy 2007 [This is an awful attempt to look credible and offers little - except to the few who can't hang their hat with the Grits or Progressive Tories. I'm afraid I couldn't resist commenting on some of the policy items]. > http://www.newcanada.ca/policy.htm A. DEMOCRATIC REFORM and INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS 5. The Reform Party would champion a constitutional amendment to the Canadian Constitution to allow for Canadians to have the right to own private property. And in the absence of success at the Federal level, we would propose an investigation ino the establishment of a Constitution for the Province which incorporated property rights. [This would require a Constitutional amendment and many 'great' politicians have been left on the constitutional 'reef.' See the next items from the New Vision; if you're a gun owner you'll despair] - ------ > 2. New Ontario must protect individual human rights. So far so good. > 3. New Ontario must reflect the wishes of the majority. Ooops; I belong to a minority, some call us a fringe group - who want 'armes for our defense' and the majority don't want to have this Right. > 4. New Ontario will be a fabric woven from our commonly held beliefs and values. Crappy; but our beliefs and values aren't 'commonly' held. Looks like more tyranny of the minority by the majority. - --------- 6. The Reform Party would support the implementation of measures to allow for consideration of the reversal of the forced amalgamation of local municipalities. [A lot of folks would back this idea but in the one case where I know it was investigated it was determined that it was now too way late to undo the Mike Harris amalgamations across the province - also a previous McGuinty promise. Harris' promise of economies of scale has proven to be a blunder beyond pale as the cost of municipal services in these amalgamated municipalities has increased dramatically]. B. FREEDOM FROM GOVERNMENT The Reform Party of Ontario stands for Freedom from overbearing and arrogant government, for Lower Taxes and Smaller Government. [Careful now. If this is Harris/Flaherty economics - it's already proven bankrupt. They cut taxes so much there was soon no gov't surplus and the resultant tax revenues were not adequate to pay for the services taxpayers actually wanted. They passed legislation banning deficits which they refused to run and by some strange quirk borrowed money to pay for essential services thereby increasing the provincial debt. Flaherty, the financial wizard (who grudgingly accepts that we're in a recession) did such an outstanding job, he got promoted to Ottawa]. [Before you to accept the 'lower taxes mantra' tell me what services you want to see dropped. Medical and behavior mod treatment for your autistic child ($60,000 per year per child, often until 18 yrs)? Child psychiatric services - we're so unserviced now some youngsters on waiting lists will never see a therapist. How about nutrition programs for children who come to school having had no breakfast (and also have no lunch)]? C. HEALTH FREEDOM The Reform Party of Ontario stands for the right of individuals to pursue the form of health care that they believe would be most conducive for the repair and rejuvenation of their own health. We support access to all heath care professionals in Ontario, including naturopathic medicine, chiropractors,dentists, and optometrists. We support the unfettered access to natural herbs, supplements, and vitamins. We advocate the provision of Health Freedom Vouchers that would assist citizens in the purchase of services from alternative and mainstream health care providers not currently covered by Ontario health insurance payments. [We can't afford the coverage we currently have - and it is proposed to expand it. I do have some sympathy for some of the services listed - but with tax cuts and reduced gov't revenue, where will the money come from. Now, ole Mike kept promising 'economies' but that usually meant cutting peripheral things like gov't conservation programs]? D. JUSTICE The Reform Party of Ontario supports improvements to the court system to allow for timely trials, and sentencing reform to be geared to serving full sentences. [Timeliness certainly is an improvement and helps the justice system achieve on of 'my' goals for effectiveness, but it will also cost a bundle to add judges, courtrooms and courthouses. Serving 'full' sentences is top of many folks list for fixing criminals - but the folks who advocate it don't work in prisons. There actually IS some rationale for inmates earning credit for attending addiction counselling, anger management groups, academic upgrading and job training; all might contribute to reducing recidivism. I don't think I'd feel too secure working in a correctional facility where there wasn't some means for separating the lesser animals from more vicious ones]. F. AGRICULTURE & RURAL REVITALIZATION Such support would extend to allowing farmers special permission to sever farm land to create retirement homes as well as to create 1-acre residential lots fronting on hard-surfaced roads where services such as natural gas and waterlines, waste and recycling collection, exist. [This is contrary to current zoning practice in most of rural Ontario, because of the continued loss of high quality farm land. I can assure all that such mix would lead to untold conflict between rural city folk wanting bans on hunting throughout greater parts of the province, plus other restrictions of farmers. I might point out that it's official gov't policy to stop the 'spread' of population centres and to 'concentrate' population to enhance public transit and get people out of their cars. It's also part of the Green Plan] These measures are aimed at keeping farms in the family and boosting rural populations to allow schools and businesses to prosper. [Keeping rural schools open , , , but it's not just rural schools that are closing. Both the Ontario elementary AND secondary school populations are shrinking, so urban schools are being closed, too]. H. EDUCATION We support letting the voters in Ontario decide whether they wish to retain the present Public/Catholic school system structure, or a revised system based on language, or purely a single publicly-funded school system. [Oh for God's sake. Another John Tory. This is a Constitutional matter and it's not only Ontario voters who get to decide. This requires a Constitutional amendment of s. 93 to achieve]. We support the mandatory meshing of public and religious school board busing as a means to put tax dollars to their best use. [Already being done to reduce transportation costs. And can you imagine the complications involved in closing a school due to weather, etc]. We advocate the streamlining of post-secondary education so that overlaps in programmes do not occur between community colleges and universities. This move will add more value to the degrees and diplomas each grant to their paying students. [Already being done and has been the case for the past 20 plus years. Students moving either way way can gain advanced standing, but it's more complicated than it seems on the surface. FYI, many colleges and universities currently offer 'joint' diploma-degree programs]. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #8 ********************************* Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:drg.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)