Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, May 28 2009 Volume 13 : Number 283 In this issue: Re: C-301 failed Re: Judge Sonia Sotomayor: Racial Politics and Making Policy Re: Exception taken to gun registry reference Conservative MP's bid to abolish gun registry fails Support for a Bill to End the Federal Long-Gun Registry re: Getting gun programs into schools TEARING DOWN THE LONG-GUN REGISTRY AN EXERCISE IN PERSEVERANCE Re: One gun registry bill dead, second bid in - Thread RE: Conservative MP's bid to abolish gun registry fails Pharmacist Who Shot Man Robbing Store Charged With Murder Ontario Ministry continues to ignore issue of bear overpopulation Re: Conservative MP's bid to abolish gun registry fails RE: Conservative MP's bid to abolish gun registry fails ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 06:42:03 -0400 From: "ed machel" Subject: Re: C-301 failed - ----- Original Message ----- From: "candlestick" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 4:22 PM Subject: C-301 failed > We knew it would, but we hoped it would not. > > Not that this distraction is out of the way, are the rfc still > disorganized. Are we still with our heads in the sand. > > Are we sending copies of the Police function to our MP and asking why this > is allowed? > > Are we demanding accountability. > > Certainly not from a million different voices where the shotgunners hate > the handgunners who wont talk to black powder burners, and they dont like > riflemen. So you see. The Function is working well. Sow dissent and chaos > upon the public that own guns so the government can sneak legislation in > and not one dissenting voice will be heard. > > I have worked with many groups in the past, but non as self destructive as > firearms owners. > > Its as if they dont want to be successful, that they sabotage any efforts > that may lead to success. > > Its a pity, because ion the end you wont be able to own your existing > guns, > the government whatever the flavour of the day is will simply outlaw them > and kick down your door to get them,. > > Oh yeah the tough talking keyboard commandos will shoot back... yeah > right.. wont happen they will surrender with their hands up , letting them > win. > > So now there are no more pie in the sky "the conservatives are going to > save us from the gun registry, remember this. > > The conservative flat out lied to us. They were our friends, ... they > lied. > I dont like it, and as such they are not my friend. No money, no support, > no help. as for the Liberals... well they have always been lying no > brainer > on what to do there. > > The Conservatives have not been taking us seriously because we are > fractured. They could have used OIC to get rid of the registry but are not > doing this because there is no pressure to do it. > > So the question is still this. > > What is the rfc prepared to do to achieve unity and for once speak with > one voice? > > Well what are you prepared to do.? The only thing can do is spoil my ballot or not vote .My letters to Harper and my MP David Sweet have been by and large ignored,as in the last 4 years I have received only two acknowledgements to my email and snail mail. Letters to the editor dont get printed .: guess they cant handle the TRUTH? It would appear that the Lieberals have a good chance of forming the next government,(even with that tramp Iggy at the helm) and there go all our guns that the CPC was supposed? to protect.? ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 06:47:09 -0400 From: "ed machel" Subject: Re: Judge Sonia Sotomayor: Racial Politics and Making Policy - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Gingrich" To: "Canadian Firearms Digest" Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:33 PM Subject: Judge Sonia Sotomayor: Racial Politics and Making Policy > http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/wp-print.php?p=1525 > > Sotomayor: Racial Politics and Making Policy > > Posted By Bobby Eberle On May 27, 2009 at 7:26 am > > > In addition to her statement that judges "make policy," Sotomayor is also > at the heart of the racial discrimination case involving white > firefighters > in New Haven, Connecticut. For a full report on this case, please check > out > my Loft post from April 20. > > Matthew Marcarelli and a group of firefighters took and passed a > promotion exam. However, "the city threw out the test because no blacks > would have been promoted, saying the exam had a 'disparate impact' on > From what I read on the net she is more blatant anti 2nd amendment than Pelosi. From ALL appearances it would seem that AKA is massing the troops for a full out attack on gun-owners(legal) ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 09:17:01 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Exception taken to gun registry reference Shame for beating this dead horse which only defuses legitimate RFC arguments. Rosko was in the OTHER registry. Why would he be in a registry of law abiding gun owners? As Tomlinson used to say, "THINK." > Shades of James Rozco who also "didn't have a > gun" because he was under a prohibition order and therefore not in the > registry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 06:36:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Douglas Bailey Subject: Conservative MP's bid to abolish gun registry fails I think there is a valuable lesson learned from this most recent try to change things. Although Garry was trying to do many things at once, he failed for trying to do just that. Changes are only going to come by very small steps. While the goal of abolishing licensing may be desirable, it's not going to happen for a very long time.....long after the registries are abolished, and not probably in my lifetime. Proposing to abolish licencing as Al and Eduardo are suggesting may be a long term goal, but only muddies the waters at this time. The first goal is to abolish the long gun registry, then relaxation of ATT may be next, but only one thing at a time. Canadians will not support any move to abolish licensing at this time. As the old saying goes: "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, May 28, 2009 8:30 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Support for a Bill to End the Federal Long-Gun Registry Saskatoonhomepage.ca - Wednesday, 27 May 2009 Support for a Bill to End the Federal Long-Gun Registry http://www.saskatoonhomepage.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18 594&Itemid=281 A hot topic in Ottawa lately is the Gun Registry and the Federal Government's commitment to scrap it. The Conservatives have tabled a bill in the Senate as well as a Private Members Bill in the House, waiting for it to get passed. Saskatoon-Rosetown-Biggar MP, Kelly Block, has given her support to Bill C-391, a Private Members Bill that aims to bring an end to the federal long-gun registry. Block says she supports any attempt in Parliament to rid Canada of the wasteful registry. Garry Breitkreuz, MP for Yorkton-Melville, who authored his own Private Members Bill to get rid of the registry is in support of Bill C-391. Breitkreuz says members of the opposition had said that previous bills, including his own Bill C-301, had some unwanted legislative details, but hopes that opposition members will support this new revised bill. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 08:33:28 -0700 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: re: Getting gun programs into schools This would be an excellent way to negate the anti-gun propaganda that our kids get exposed to through the media and video games. Even if it started with air rifles and handguns. Many of us are from the era of high school rifle teams and got out start in firearms there and the Cadet programs. Once a year we had a 'show-and-tell' and could bring our own rifles to the school. Few of us owned gun cases and they were walked to school over our shoulders. No one died and there were no takedowns. Lasy year I took six real period rifles (MLs and cartridge) into a local highschool and several movie prop handguns for an historical awareness program. They even paid me for it! Think about it ..... it was an overwhelming success with not one word of parental complaint afterwards. Mind you, Quesnel is a red neck community and most kids would come from homes where firearms are prevalent. This year, the RCMP and the highschool worked out a protocol for responding to a 'man-with-a-gun' call. I was aghast and wrote a letter commenting that an education program would be far more effective instead of adding to the anti-gun hysteria which programs kids to be victims and sets the stage for an over reaction which could be deadly. Sure enough, a kid was recently spotted bringing a toy gun into the school after hours for a dramatic rehearsal and a passing driver called it in. The ERT Team responded in their usual over-the-top fashion. It could easily have resulted in gun play. More recently, I had another letter published and in discussing it with the editor, we reviewed that incident. She had attended the meeting that hammered out the protocol and was in agreement with my assessment that familiarity with firearms would be more beneficial. Taking the mystery out of guns and understanding them is empowering as opposed to terrifying. In the meantime guys, lets carry on with the internecine squabbling while we continue to lose and slide towards being the last generation of Canadian handgun and rifle owners. And whatever you do, DON'T become politically aware and active or write constructive editorial letters. Just rant and rag on each other and the problem will go away. "It has nothing to do with power - it's all about control" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:25:57 -0400 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: TEARING DOWN THE LONG-GUN REGISTRY AN EXERCISE IN PERSEVERANCE The following weekly op-ed column by Garry Breitkreuz, M.P. was released to local media in Yorkton-Melville, Saskatchewan: TEARING DOWN THE LONG-GUN REGISTRY AN EXERCISE IN PERSEVERANCE By Garry Breitkreuz, M.P. Yorkton-Melville Sometimes things don't always go as planned in the wild world of politics, and my effort to scrap the long-gun registry is a case in point. I tabled my Private Members' Bill C-301 in early February to bring an end to the wasteful $ 2 billion registry once and for all. My bill also contained a few bureaucratic housekeeping items that firearms owners have been seeking for years. Unfortunately, those additional items to help cut red tape were identified as unpalatable to some opposition members, and our minority government needs the support of a dozen opposition members for a vote to pass. Rather than throwing in the towel, we came up with another plan that could well be a successful route to abolish the registry. With the success of my bill in jeopardy, I was very pleased to see Candice Hoeppner, M.P. for Portage-Lisgar in Manitoba, step forward with a new Private Members Bill that focuses solely on scrapping the registry. Bill C-391 was written to address only the registry issue, and it should find favour with those members of the opposition who are limiting their support to that issue alone. I am indebted to Ms. Hoeppner for sponsoring this bill and sharing my goal to finally bring an end to the long-gun registry. The Conservative Party's effort to terminate the registry has been getting national media coverage of late, and I am honoured to continue to lead the charge. I have promised to scrap the registry and I have loudly opposed the unfairness of Bill C-68 since it was introduced in 1995. It has placed onerous and unfair regulations on firearms owners across the country for much too long. After I introduced Bill C-301, the Minister of Public Safety introduced Bill S-5 into the Senate to scrap the registry, but it too contained some unpalatable details. Canadians can be forgiven for some confusion with so many bills in Parliament to achieve similar goals, yet each bill does differ from the others. The important thing to realize now is that Ms. Hoeppner's Bill C-391 has the focus that we believe will find wider support in Parliament, and it is the bill I am now actively supporting. For this reason, I seconded the bill in the House when it was tabled on May 15 and I will do everything I can to assist Ms. Hoeppner in bringing it to fruition. There are still many Canadians who are wrongly informed by the anti- firearms lobby groups. Farmers, sport shooters and hunters will still require licenses to use their firearms. For its part, the registry does not enhance public safety in any way, and it continues to be a black hole that devours taxpayers' hard-earned dollars with an insatiable appetite. We need to stop pretending that the registry fights crime. Canadians deserve better than continuing this registry that is not cost-effective. We should instead be investing that money in real public safety measures like more police officers who are equipped with better crime-fighting technology. That's how to take on the criminals and build a safer society. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:38:24 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: One gun registry bill dead, second bid in - Thread Rob retorted: > '"CERTIFICATION PRESENTS ALL THE SAFETY BENEFITS OF LICENSING"'. I feel the urge to remind all, on both sides of 'the fence' that if certain totally retarded, short-sighted, knuckle dragging politicians had 'thought' we would have a friendly FPCertificate and many of our objections would be somewhat benign. (Post-card sized application and CPIC clearance). I, for one, have little inclination to 're-fight' the battles of 1987. The CONservatives have been saying, unequivocally, since those halcyon days of Bulroney that some means will be exacted to 'know where the gun owners (and their guns) are located'. Until we have a favourable court decision, our protests are in vain. Bill C-301 was dead before it got off the ground. Considering that 'nothing' occurs in Fed politics without the expressed approval and stamp of Harpo and the PMO, you've got to wonder what 'scam' was being floated. To bring in a Bill guaranteed to result in the loss of support of any 'left leaning' MP was pure suicide. So Why did Harper float a suicidal Bill which would drain off even more of his shaky support of the electorate. The Man must have a political death wish. The basic rule is start with something more assured of success; gaining that, nibble away for more. Ole Rock was honest (and Open and Accountable enough) to acknowledge why he didn't deliver on his preamble to C-68 'attesting to the legitimate uses of guns in Canadian society'. I won't hold my breath waiting for Harper, Van Loan, etc. to explain the C-301 screw-up. I've been asking for years for the CPC to bring Rock's preamble to the floor of the House. Also stated: > Garry did *NOT* walk away, and given the extreme pressure he was under > from the PMO to pull the legislation Given my reminder about 'how the system works' why would the PM ask Breitkreuz to 'walk away' from a Bill that only saw the light of day with the PM's prior approval. 10X offered: > The real problem with the firearms act is the amendment to the criminal > code that makes possession of firearms illegal. > > That would be sections 91 and 92 of the criminal code - those are the > sections that many Canadians are not really aware of but some of us are > very concerned about. And of course the answer, at least one more palatable) is found in Legislative Options to Decriminalize Unauthorized Possession of a Firearm. These measures would likely have greater chance for success that C-301. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 09:58:50 -0700 From: "RFOCBC" Subject: RE: Conservative MP's bid to abolish gun registry fails Are you really Tony Bernardo using an alias? Again, lots of OPINION presented as fact. Licensing arrived with the stroke of a pen - it can leave with the stroke of a pen. Yes, the public needs to feel confident that the elimination of Licensing will not adversely impact 'public safety'. But one cannot be reasonably expected to achieve that goal whilst the CPC MPs (and star-struck gun-owners) are running about the countryside extolling the virtues of said Licensing. The CPC supports Licensing. That's not opinion, but verifiable fact. Elephants be damned. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca]On Behalf Of Douglas Bailey Sent: May 28, 2009 6:36 AM To: Canadian Fireams Digest Subject: Conservative MP's bid to abolish gun registry fails I think there is a valuable lesson learned from this most recent try to change things. Although Garry was trying to do many things at once, he failed for trying to do just that. Changes are only going to come by very small steps. While the goal of abolishing licensing may be desirable, it's not going to happen for a very long time.....long after the registries are abolished, and not probably in my lifetime. Proposing to abolish licencing as Al and Eduardo are suggesting may be a long term goal, but only muddies the waters at this time. The first goal is to abolish the long gun registry, then relaxation of ATT may be next, but only one thing at a time. Canadians will not support any move to abolish licensing at this time. As the old saying goes: "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:45:33 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Pharmacist Who Shot Man Robbing Store Charged With Murder http://www.foxnews.com/ Pharmacist Who Shot Man Robbing Store Charged With Murder Thursday, May 28, 2009 OKLAHOMA CITY - An Oklahoma City pharmacist who shot and killed a 16-year-old would-be robber was charged Wednesday with first-degree murder. Jerome Ersland, 57, was being held without bail in the Oklahoma County Jail. Oklahoma County District Attorney David Prater said in an afternoon news conference that Ersland was justified in shooting Antwun Parker once in the head on May 19. But Prater said Ersland went too far when he shot Parker five more times in the abdomen while Parker lay unconscious on the floor. Ersland's attorney, Irven Box, said Ersland was protecting himself and two women inside the pharmacy. "I think he did something in his eyes that protected both himself and two ladies in there," Box said. "He put an end to the threat." Box said he thinks a jury will exonerate Ersland. At an afternoon news conference, Prater showed a security video in which two men burst into the pharmacy and one is shot. Ersland is seen chasing the second man outside before returning, walking past Parker to get a second gun then going back to Parker and opening fire. The charge alleges Ersland shot Parker while he was incapacitated and lying on his back. Ersland's account of the incident doesn't match the video or the evidence collected at the scene, according to an affidavit written by Oklahoma City Police Detective David Jacobson. Jacobson said the suspect who ran away from the pharmacy was armed, but no gun was found near Parker. "Ersland shows no concern for his safety as he walks by Parker, and turns his back to Parker as he walks behind the pharmacy counter," Jacobson said. "Ersland is then seen to put the pistol he is carrying on the counter, and retrieve a second pistol from a drawer." Ersland used this pistol to shoot Parker on the ground, the detective said. He said an autopsy determined that Parker had been shot in the head, but was still alive when he was shot in the stomach area and died from those injuries. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, May 28, 2009 12:15 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Ontario Ministry continues to ignore issue of bear overpopulation ONTARIO FEDERATION OF ANGLERS AND HUNTERS May 27, 2009 15:18 ET Here we go again! Ministry continues to ignore issue of bear overpopulation http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Ontario-Federation-Of-Anglers-And-Hu nters-995612.html O.F.A.H. MEDIA RELEASE--(Marketwire - May 27, 2009) - This week, another black bear made its way into the City of Peterborough, marking the start of another season of black bear/human conflict, not only in the area, but across the province. On May 26, a black bear, estimated to be between one and two years old, was spotted in East City Bowl, a park located close to homes, retail shops and an elementary school. This time, Ministry of Natural Resources (M.N.R.) staff were able to tranquilize and relocate the animal, but the continual rise in bear/human occurrences is a concern to the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters (O.F.A.H.). "This is yet another example of black bears coming into contact with humans, a potentially dangerous occurrence for both Peterborough residents and the bear itself," said Terry Quinney, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters (O.F.A.H.) Provincial Manager of Fish and Wildlife Services. "Fortunately, the bear was contained within the park, otherwise it could have come in contact with children on their way to school. This is happening all over the province. When is the government going to acknowledge that Ontario has too many bears for the habitat available and stop claiming that there isn't a problem?" Human/bear conflicts have been on the rise since 1999, when the provincial government suddenly, and without public consultation, bowed to political pressure and banned the spring bear hunt. The government's unsubstantiated claim that bear cubs were being orphaned has been widely disputed by wildlife biologists and managers, including the O.F.A.H. With ever-increasing numbers of bears being relocated and dispatched over the past decade, the science clearly demonstrates that more cubs are being orphaned or shot today in the protection of property, than ever were during the highly regulated spring hunt. To date, the M.N.R.'s response to the dangerous escalation in bear/human conflict has been limited to the Bear Wise program, which is currently under government review. The program's own statistics reveal there is an upward trend in bear occurrences resulting in phone or onsite response, up from 8,547 in 2004/5 to an estimated 12,645 in 2007/8. The trend would be downward or stable if bear populations were being well managed. "The benefits of bringing back an early season hunt are ecological, social and economic. An early season hunt would assist in reducing human/bear conflicts through better population management, provide more outdoor opportunities for hunters, and help generate economic prosperity for northern communities that have suffered terribly since the cancellation of the spring hunt," added Quinney. With over 100,000 members, subscribers and supporters, and 660 member clubs, the O.F.A.H. is the largest nonprofit, charitable, fishing, hunting and conservation-based organization in Ontario, and the voice of anglers and hunters. For more information, visit www.ofah.org /For further information: Terry Quinney PhD Provincial Manager of Fish & Wildlife Services (705) 748-6324 ext. 242 IN: ENVIRONMENT, POLITICS For more information, please contact Lezlie Goodwin, Communications Coordinator, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters Primary Phone: 705-748-6324 ext. 270 E-mail: lezlie_goodwin@ofah.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:58:35 -0500 From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: Conservative MP's bid to abolish gun registry fails At 06:36 AM 5/28/2009 -0700, you wrote: > >I think there is a valuable lesson learned from this most recent try to >change things. > >Although Garry was trying to do many things at once, he failed for trying >to do just that. > >Changes are only going to come by very small steps. While the goal of >abolishing licensing may be desirable, it's not going to happen for a very >long time.....long after the registries are abolished, and not probably in >my lifetime. > >Proposing to abolish licencing as Al and Eduardo are suggesting may be a >long term goal, but only muddies the waters at this time. The first goal >is to abolish the long gun registry, then relaxation of ATT may be next, >but only one thing at a time. > >Canadians will not support any move to abolish licensing at this time. > >As the old saying goes: "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time" You have to shoot the elephant and make sure it is dead before you sit down to eat it. Licensing does not have to be abolished - just the criminal penalties tied to possession without a valid license (Section 91 and 92 of the criminal code) and the powers of the minister of Justice to change the rules and fees to get a license without the review of Parliament. Getting these changes to licensing - changing the license to a certificate - would go a long way to shooting the elephant. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:06:38 -0500 From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: RE: Conservative MP's bid to abolish gun registry fails At 09:58 AM 5/28/2009 -0700, you wrote: > > Are you really Tony Bernardo using an alias? > > Again, lots of OPINION presented as fact. Licensing arrived with the > stroke of a pen - it can leave with the stroke of a pen. Yes, the > public needs to feel confident that the elimination of Licensing will > not adversely impact 'public safety'. But one cannot be reasonably > expected to achieve that goal whilst the CPC MPs (and star-struck > gun-owners) are running about the countryside extolling the virtues of > said Licensing. > > The CPC supports Licensing. That's not opinion, but verifiable fact. > Elephants be damned. There has been no change in the firearms crime rate or the firearms accident rate that can be attributed to the introduction of 1) the mandatatory firearms safety course and 2) the mandatory firearms license in Canada. The evidence indicates that safety courses introduced in 1992 and licensing introduced in 1998 had neither a positive or negative effect on the dropping trend of firearms accidents and firearms crime. Firearms accidents and firearms crime have been dropping since 1975 - four years before the F.A.C. (Firearms acquisition Certificate) became mandatory to take possession of a gun. Show us the evidence that 1) Firearms safety courses work to reduce crime, 2) firearms safety courses work to reduce accidents, 3) licensing firearms owners works to reduce crime, and 4) licensing firearms owners works to reduce accidents. Use any jurisdiction in the world and cite your sources please. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #283 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)