Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, October 26 2009 Volume 13 : Number 506 In this issue: Toronto Sun - Anti-gun registry ads take aim US PRESIDENT..?? Contact Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #504 London Freep - Column - Urban vs. rural geometric design SUN MEDIA: Gun registry battle rages White Lily Letter to LFP (just sent) Fw: Letters to the Editor Toronto Sun: Moms take to the streets Re: Anti-gun registry ads take aim Era-Banner - 56 illegal handguns taken off streets this year, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 06:26:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Toronto Sun - Anti-gun registry ads take aim http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/10/25/11517681-sun.html Anti-gun registry ads take aim Tories target MPs in rural ridings By KATHLEEN HARRIS, NATIONAL BUREAU CHIEF Last Updated: 25th October 2009, 4:56am OTTAWA -- Conservatives are ramping up their fight to kill the gun registry with a series of hard-hitting ads targeting a dozen or more opposition MPs, Sun Media has learned. The series of radio spots to hit airwaves tomorrow will directly call on Liberal and NDP MPs in designated rural ridings to stand up for their constituents in a Nov. 4 vote to repeal the registry. Conservatives expect the vote on C-391, a private member's bill sponsored by Manitoba Tory MP Candice Hoeppner, will be "very close" due to vacancies in the House of Commons. While the objective of the ad buy is to twist the arms of some MPs, Conservatives also warn the recorded votes will be fodder for the next election campaign if C-391 is defeated. "The Conservative party recognizes that the road to a majority government is going to be paved, in part, through some of these rural ridings. And these are some of the ridings being targeted," said a Conservative source. The ads will run in ridings where a large portion of the constituency is known to oppose the registry. Some of the MPs targeted are Liberals Anthony Rota (Nipissing-Temiskaming) and Todd Russell (Labrador) and New Democrats Dennis Bevington (Western Arctic), Charlie Angus (Timmins-James Bay) and Nathan Cullen (Skeena-Bulkley Valley.) If the member publicly offers support for the bill to abolish the registry, Conservatives say they will pull the ad in that riding. "On Nov. 4 there will be a vote in Ottawa to scrap the long-gun registry and protect our local way of life. The vote will be close. Every vote will matter," says one sample ad. "Our MP, Anthony Rota, could make the difference. But his political bosses in Ottawa want him to vote to keep the long-gun registry." The ad recites the phone number of the MP's constituency office and urges residents to call and encourage a vote to abolish the registry. As Sun Media reported last week, Conservatives will also be distributing household flyers called "10-percenters" to drum up support in opposition ridings. Hoeppner said it's important for every MP to have a "free, open" opportunity to stand up and vote. The gun registry, dubbed the "$2-billion boondoggle" by its opponents, has been dogged by emotional debate since it was brought in 14 years ago. The Nov. 4 vote would move the bill into committee and bring the registry one step closer to abolishment. "It might surprise some political observers there are a number of rural seats which are held by opposition parties that Conservative strategists believe could be picked up in a general election. A number of these ridings are being targeted in this campaign," said the Conservative source. "It's designed to put pressure on MPs who in their own riding say they support the repeal of the gun registry yet when they are in Ottawa don't make those views known under the weight of their political masters." KATHLEEN.HARRIS@SUNMEDIA.CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:17:45 -0600 From: "Med Crotteau" Subject: US PRESIDENT..?? CNN this morning has comments about Obama. He's declared an H1N1 Flu Epidemic! He's declared a State of Emergency over Peurto Rico Fire! Then he takes on Fox News..?? Is there a State Run Media coming, "just like Communism"..?? I'm not sure what is in the works, but i see warning signs. SCRAP THE FIREARMS ACT Med Crotteau ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:00:43 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Contact Cc: Mike Ackermann , Garry - Assistant 2 Breitkreuz , Dennis Young , Cdn-Firearms Digest To Mr. Jim Hnatiuk, leader of the CHP. vickigunn@gmail.com Sir, To retain ANY of the fraudulent provisions of C-68 the so-called gun registry law is pernicious. Not only was it introduced on false wordage to the MP's, it continued despite the objection voiced by RCMP A/Commissioner JPR Murray. His protest contained the entire components of Sect 366 of the Criminal Code, that of forgery. The penalty for which, at the time WAS 14 years. Yet it was allowed to remain. His protest was proved and supported by MP Garry Brietkreuz, where it was shown that Bill C-68 was introduced on a lie. Now, one would think, if that was the case, the Bill would fail. Thousands of citizens, hundreds of Chiefs of Police, Members of Parliament, grand sounding Phd's from prestigious universities carried the misleading toxin that gun registration, and licencing would be necessary to combat crime. see John Dixon's The Gang that couldn't shoot straight . . ''The supreme irony of the gun registry battle is that the policy was selected because it would goad people who knew something about guns to public outrage. That is, it had a purely political purpose in the special context of a hard-fought election. The fact that it was bad policy was crucial to the specific political effect it was supposed to deliver. And so we saw demonstrations by middle-aged firearm owners, family men whose first reflex was to respect the laws of the land. This group's political alienation is a far greater loss than the $200- million that have been wasted so far. The creation of this new criminal class -- the ultimate triumph of negative political alchemy -- may be the worst, and most enduring product of the gun registry culture war. '' John Dixon is a hunter, and president of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association. From 1991 to 1992, he was adviser to then-deputy minister of justice John Tait. Canada has had 'gun control' since 1934, and look how well that's done . . Gun control begins and ends with the judiciary. AND THEY AREN'T DOING IT . . Criminals are caught with guns, and the courts have written it off saying the police had no reason . . Had government made the commission of an offence while armed, so prohibitive that the perpetrator would wish he/she hadn't done it . . . would had gone a long way to make 'gun control' a reality instead of the false findings they do. So, Mr. Hnatiuk, will you be another who 'rides the pony ' of '' I am against registration '' and secretly supports licencing? Registration is good for life . . licencing expires. One should not be required to point out the distinction . . It is a two billion dollar failure . If a law fails to substantially carry out the reason it was introduced it must be rescinded . . right now . . Len Miller Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:04:29 -0600 From: Walter Hornby Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #504 One more point on ammo designed to *penetrate* bullet proof vests. This ammo has a geometric design that allows it to separate the fibres of kydex (what vests today are made of.) I do not know if they have a specific name but Black Talons are not design to pierce bullet proof vests! Black Talons are designed to open up on impact to create a large wound channel. When they do open up they look like talons thus the name. The ammo is still available today just under a different name. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:43:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: London Freep - Column - Urban vs. rural http://www.lfpress.com/comment/columnists/michael_dentandt/2009/10/24/11510561-sun.html Urban vs. rural Fair shake for country riles city MPs By MICHAEL DEN TANDT Last Updated: 24th October 2009, 4:25am So Ottawa has dolled out wads more stimulus cash to Conservative-held ridings than Liberal ones. On average, the Globe and Mail reports, Tory ridings across Canada are getting $579,000 more than Liberal or NDP seats. Cue the outrage. Please, spare us. There are 23 federal ridings in Toronto. Twenty-one are held by Liberals. Two are held by the NDP. Zero are held by the Conservatives. Toronto ridings, according to Liberal MP Gerard Kennedy, have received an average of $1.3 million in stimulus lolly. That's more than $750,000 less per riding, on average, than Conservative ridings -- that is, those outside Toronto. Good. This is not primarily about Conservatives versus Liberal. It's about urban versus rural. Rural and small-town ridings, for the first time that anyone can remember, have gotten a fair shake from government. And the Liberals' Toronto caucus, which is the heart and soul of the party now, is screaming bloody murder. It is normal, in a proportional system such as ours, that large population centres -- Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal, to name three -- hold vastly disproportionate power relative to more sparsely populated areas. Most of us accept this without question. However flawed, it's the best system we know. That said, representation by population can and does lead to systemic inequities and abuses of the relatively powerless, by the relatively powerful. In Ontario in the 1990s, for example, rural and small-town people had provincewide municipal amalgamation shoved down their throats by the Mike Harris Conservative government. Municipal amalgamation made good sense in Greater Toronto. It made no sense whatsoever in Chatham-Kent or Bruce-Grey. Small communities with their own identities and unique histories found themselves suddenly with no mayors, no councils, and no voice. They had no recourse or appeal. And because of the enormous cost and complexity of de-amalgamating, and sheer inertia, there is no obvious or easy way back. Also in the 1990s, rural and small-town Canadians had the federal gun registry shoved down their throats. Remember? The registry was Liberal justice minister Allan Rock's response to growing public fear about gun crime -- in the cities. Farmers, small landowners and hunters, and the lobby groups who represent them, unanimously objected to the registry. They were ignored. They continue to be ignored. There are efforts to abolish this program but they do not have bipartisan support. In an economy increasingly reliant on the Internet, rural and small-town Canada is still mostly without high-speed web access. There are half-hearted noises about changing this. Health care wait times are longer in rural Canada. Doctors are fewer. There are half-hearted noises about changing this. In Ontario, the McGuinty government responded to the Maple Leaf Foods tainted meat crisis by imposing new rules that have effectively wiped out small rural butcher shops and meat processors. Urban fear, rural impact. People in the country have objected, strongly. Queen's Park isn't interested. The same provincial government has imposed the Green Energy Act. Its primary consequence, large industrial wind farms, promises to change permanently the character of rural Ontario. Objections are everywhere and growing -- outside Toronto. So far, nobody in the megacity cares. Deputy Premier George Smitherman is convinced wind power puts him on the side of the angels. That's all that counts. Has it occurred to any of the folks complaining about disproportionate stimulus spending in Tory ridings that these ridings tend to be badly underserved in most areas of infrastructure? Not likely. They don't get out of the city enough to know. michael.dentandt@sunmedia.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:06:08 +0000 From: Trigger Mortis Subject: geometric design "geometric design"? Pardon me while I laugh. I believe that rifle bullets have a "geometric design" that allow them to slip through the air. It's called streamlining and it's been around for a while. It is generally applied to most ammo although I'll admit to using wadcutters to cut a nice neat hole in the paper target. Alan Harper alan__harper@hotmail.com SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM ************************* > Date: Sun 25 Oct 2009 10:04:29 -0600 > Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #504 > From: walter.hornby@gmail.com > To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca > > One more point on ammo designed to *penetrate* bullet proof vests. This > ammo has a geometric design that allows it to separate the fibres of > kydex > (what vests today are made of.) I do not know if they have a specific > name > but Black Talons are not design to pierce bullet proof vests! Black > Talons > are designed to open up on impact to create a large wound channel. When > they do open up they look like talons thus the name. The ammo is still > available today just under a different name. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, October 26, 2009 8:27 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: SUN MEDIA: Gun registry battle rages LONDON FREE PRESS - OCTOBER 26, 2009 Gun registry battle rages By KATHLEEN HARRIS, SUN MEDIA NATIONAL BUREAU CHIEF http://www.lfpress.com/news/canada/2009/10/26/11523566-sun.html OTTAWA -- A federal spending watchdog group is picking up arms in the brewing battle to kill the gun registry, but the pro-control side is fighting back. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation is flooding its 60,000 supporters with letters today urging them to lobby MPs and party leaders to help abolish the 14-year-old gun registry. The debate is heating up before a scheduled Nov. 4 vote on private member's bill C-391 to repeal the registry. CTF federal director Kevin Gaudet said fury remains strong among hunters, anglers and recreational gun groups across the country, who see the registry as an "unresolved festering sore." Others in urban centres hate it just as much for financial reasons. "It was a stupid idea in the first place and a ridiculous waste of money on an ongoing basis," Gaudet said. Conservatives are ramping up efforts to pass Manitoba MP Candice Hoeppner's bill to repeal the registry, running radio ads and dropping household flyers in targeted opposition ridings in the run-up to the critical vote that would send C-391 to committee for further study. Karl Belanger, spokesperson for NDP Leader Jack Layton, said their caucus will be free to vote how they want. "This is a vote to send a backbencher's bill to committee for further study and will not be whipped," he said, slamming the ads as proof the Conservatives are taking a "divisive" approach. Jill Fairbrother, spokesperson for Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff, said private member's bills are traditionally free votes and she does not expect this one will be any different. Wendy Cukier, president of the Coalition for Gun Control, said the ad campaign in rural ridings could be effective, but also carries high political stakes for the Conservative party trying to win over urban ridings, women voters and Quebec. She insisted the registry is not designed to prevent lawful use of guns but to enhance accountability and reduce the risk of weapons being misused or winding up in the wrong hands. "If the Conservatives are successful, we will have more information about Canadian cats and dogs than seven million firearms," she said. "Without information about who owns guns and the guns they own, there is no effective control. Internationally, most countries licensing gun owners and registering firearms are moving to strengthen controls. This would be a huge step backwards." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:29:15 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: White Lily >> From: Jules Sobrian >> Subject: Novels and such >> White Lily is a social documentary on what can happen when a >> combination of circumstances beset an honest man. When that happens, >> how does his wife survive? > Sounds pretty good - who will be carrying it, or do I have to special > order it? > > Bruce Can we see a covered box alongside Highway #35 with an Honour Box for for folks passing by Omeemee? Worked perfect for my neighbour's fresh corn sales. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:18:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to LFP (just sent) Gun registry battle rages (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, When Wendy Cukier states "without information about who owns guns and the guns they own, there is no effective control", it occurs to me that her concerns relate less to the public safety than the organized disarmament of civilian populations. The firearms registry is a costly mistake which has not in any way affected the criminal use of firearms, nor has it in any way made Canadians safer. The previous FAC regime instituted the useful police vetting, background checks and letters of reference required for a Firearms Acquisition Certificate without criminalizing law abiding citizens, and without the necessity of spending millions of dollars on an inaccurate registry of duck guns and hunting rifles. Returning to a cost effective and fair regulatory system will not affect the public safety adversely, but it will free up millions of wasted dollars annually. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:41:01 -0600 From: "Med Crotteau" Subject: Fw: Letters to the Editor - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 1:38 PM Subject: Letters to the Editor > Letters to the Editor was sent from > THIS IS ONLY A CONFIRMATION of your letter to the editor sent to the > London Free Press: > Date: 2009-10-26 15:38:49 > Confirmation #: > CONTACT INFO: > Name: Med. E. Crotteau > Address: 9347-92 st. > City: Edmonton > Telephone: 780-497-7903 > E-mail: mywaymed@shaw.ca > NATURE OF ENQUIRY > Subject: GUN REGISTRY BATTLE RAGES > Letter: Thank you for the Article today, written by Kathleen Harris. > Unfortunately, she quoted Wendy Cukier and continued the Big Lie, saying > in essence, that the Gun Registry is Valuable. The real truth is, it's > cost well over 2 Billions of dollars, so far. It has NOT Solved 1 > Murder, so far! Harrassing Law Abiding Gun Owners, has been the only > result to date! > SCRAP THE FIREARMS ACT > Thank you. > Med Crotteau 780-497-7903 > Reminder: We do not answer directly to all letters sent to the editors > nor do we publish all letters submitted. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, October 26, 2009 2:43 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Toronto Sun: Moms take to the streets TORONTO SUN - OCTOBER 26, 2009 Moms take to the streets By JENNY YUEN http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/10/26/11524256-sun.html Instead of having a moment of silence for victims of violence, mothers who have lost their children to killers with illegal guns gave them a voice by making some noise yesterday. United Mothers Opposing Violence Everywhere (UMOVE) held its sixth annual march in downtown Toronto, focusing attention on the gun violence plaguing the city. About 40 people held banners, blew whistles and chanted "Stop the violence" as they walked from Yonge-Dundas Square to City Hall. "The violence rages on and we have to deal with the challenge of healing," said UMOVE chairman Audette Sheppard, who lost her son Justin in 2001, when he was shot to death. "We are making some noise today because it will give a voice to the victims, like my son, who has been silenced. We also want to break silence in the communities," she said. "People continue to empower criminals by keeping silent." Mayor David Miller proclaimed Oct. 21 as UMOVE day of non-violence in Toronto. The not-for-profit organization was formed in 2001 by a group of mothers who lost children to senseless acts of violence. Besides giving the victims a voice, rally participants called on the federal government to ban handguns. But a bill to disarm the gun registry is slated for debate in Parliament, and UMOVE is opposed. "Every gun has the potential to kill," said Elaine Lumley, whose 20-year-old son Aidan who was shot in the back during a weekend trip to Montreal with friends in 2005. "Owning a gun in Canada is not your right. Living and growing up is our right. We cannot let this bill pass." Sheppard said awareness of the problem is growing. "Justin was my heart, he was my life," she said. "Someone ended his dream (to be a professional athlete) on June 21, 2001. I hope another mother never has to go through what I went through." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, October 25, 2009 1:04 pm From: tester13@xplornet.com Subject: Re: Anti-gun registry ads take aim The Sun's copy editor is asleep, again. I believe that headline should read, Anti gun-registry.... Willy - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 8:23 AM Subject: Anti-gun registry ads take aim > TORONTO SUN - OCTOBER 25, 2009 > Anti-gun registry ads take aim > Tories target MPs in rural ridings > By KATHLEEN HARRIS, NATIONAL BUREAU CHIEF > http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/10/25/11517681-sun.html > > OTTAWA -- Conservatives are ramping up their fight to kill the gun > registry with a series of hard-hitting ads targeting a dozen or more > opposition MPs, Sun Media has learned. > > The series of radio spots to hit airwaves tomorrow will directly call on > Liberal and NDP MPs in designated rural ridings to stand up for their > constituents in a Nov. 4 vote to repeal the registry. > > Conservatives expect the vote on C-391, a private member's bill > sponsored by Manitoba Tory MP Candice Hoeppner, will be "very close" > due to vacancies in the House of Commons. >SNIP > The ads will run in ridings where a large portion of the constituency is > known to oppose the registry. Some of the MPs targeted are Liberals > Anthony Rota (Nipissing-Temiskaming) and Todd Russell (Labrador) and New Democrats > Dennis Bevington (Western Arctic), Charlie Angus (Timmins-James Bay) and > Nathan Cullen (Skeena-Bulkley Valley.) If the member publicly offers > support > for the bill to abolish the registry, Conservatives say they will pull the > ad in that riding. >SNIP > The ad recites the phone number of the MP's constituency office and urges > residents to call and encourage a vote to abolish the registry. >SNIP > As Sun Media reported last week, Conservatives will also be distributing > household flyers called "10-percenters" to drum up support in opposition > ridings. Hoeppner said it's important for every MP to have a "free, open" > opportunity to stand up and vote. >SNIP > number of these ridings are being targeted in this campaign," said the > Conservative source. "It's designed to put pressure on MPs who in their > own > riding say they support the repeal of the gun registry yet when they are > in Ottawa don't make those views known under the weight of their > political masters." > > KATHLEEN.HARRIS@SUNMEDIA.CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:06:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Era-Banner - 56 illegal handguns taken off streets this year, http://www.yorkregion.com/article/98438 56 illegal handguns taken off streets this year, board hears Regional News October 26, 2009 03:24 PM Chris Traber ctraber@yrmg.com The Uzi submachine gun can spew hundreds of rounds per minute. The Glock handgun, capable of firing up to 33 bullets from a single magazine. The tiny Beretta pistol with silencer delivers noiseless death. The tiny Beretta pistol with silencer delivers noiseless death. These lethal weapons and others were recently and illegally in the hands of criminals. Wednesday, the seized weapons were neatly and safely displayed as part of a police services board presentation on illegal firearms and weapons in our neighbourhoods. The cache represents some of the 68 hand guns seized in 2007, the 41 last year and the 56 to date this year. As for illegal long guns, such as rifles and shotguns, police took 188 of them off York streets last year. This year, the tally is 196. We're proud this is one of the safest communities in Canada, Police Chief Armand La Barge said at the meeting. But there is a growing concern about illegal firearms. Intelligence unit Det.-Sgt. Duncan MacIntyre and community services Sgt. Mark Altermann confirmed the chiefs consternation. Since the invention of guns, people have romanticized their use. Ours is a gun culture populated and popularized by perpetuators of gun mythology. Discussing entertainers influence on impressionable youth, they cited rapper 50 Cent latest album, whose 17 tracks include 10 glorifying guns. Violent video games encourage carnage, rewarding players for brutal kills, all the while desensitizing the virtual shooter to reality, they added. Guns are also a lucrative underground trade. A legal standard 9mm pistol sells for approximately $500. On the street, the same unlicensed weapon fetches up to eight times the price. Ditto for ammo. Nationally and regionally, illegal firearms and weapons are a blooming bane, particularly for our young people. Canada is fifth among industrialized countries in firearm deaths of children under 14, Det. Sgt. MacIntyre told the board. Firearms kill more within the 15 to 24 demographic than cancer, drowning and falls combined. Part of the problem is legal supply and illegal demand. Of the 3.65 million firearms produced in the United States in 2008, hundreds are smuggled into Canada each year. Of the 253,000 handguns and more than two million rifles and shotguns legally registered in Ontario, 16,000 of the former and 70,000 of the latter are in York Region. That makes York a target-rich market for illegal weapons, police said. The number of seizures of illegal weapons is on the increase, Det.-Sgt. MacIntyre said. Robberies with handguns are on the rise in York Region too. Nationally, 67 per cent of homicides involve handguns, Sgt. Altermann said. In York, between 2007, five of the seven homicides involved a handgun. So far this year, there have been 71 robberies, including home invasions, that involved a handgun compared to 64 last year. Even fake or replica weapons are a potentially deadly issue. If an officer encounters a suspect with a weapon, real or not, they are trained to react,Sgt. Altermann said. We're seeing more (replica guns) in usage. Theyre difficult to determine in any environment. Often, there's a tragic ending. Cognizant of the problem, our police forces guns and gangs enforcement unit is collaborating with the provincial weapons and enforcement unit and the firearms tracing and enforcement program. Education, through the regions two school boards character programs and responsible ownership seminars spreads cautionary messages. Licensing and registration can stem the flow of illegal guns as can revoking ownership from irresponsible owners, they said. The criminal justice system too, can serve as a deterrent. Current mandatory sentences for illegal gun and ammunition possession is three years jail time for the first offense and five years for a second. Editor: TMCFADDEN@YRMG.COM ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #506 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)