Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, October 27 2009 Volume 13 : Number 507 In this issue: Re: hunting or poaching Re: CFD V13 #504 - Black Talon's All that strict German gun control, and she's still dead. Firearm owners shoot themselves in the foot Gun registry has been a failure White Lily TorStar - Boys, 12, charged after girls shot with air guns bullet proof vests Statistics on illegal gun use Re: Media - Donation to Breast Cancer research Re: Gun registry has been a failure "Perfect Storm" For UN Gun Control Agenda Re: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen Re: Teddy Roosevelt RE: bullet proof vests Re: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen Re: US PRESIDENT Fw: Onion fighting flu's " NFR " ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:59:13 -0600 From: Bill Farion Subject: Re: hunting or poaching Hi, A charter challenge about Indians rights to shoot game on private, cultivated, occupied land from a road will be heard in Vegreville Court June 15, 2010! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:05:02 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: CFD V13 #504 - Black Talon's Roger reported: ... > but Black Talons are not design to pierce bullet proof vests! Black Talons > are designed to open up on impact to create a large wound channel. When > they do open up they look like talons thus the name. The ammo is still > available today just under a different name. I still have a few Winchester pistol and rifle cartridges in the original (high gloss black) Win Black Talon boxes and subsequent identical cartridges in (high gloss black) Win *Fail Safe* boxes. The first immediate move occurred with the 'handgun' cartridges. Black Talon's went from 'cop killers' to Fail Safe via a slick marketing move (and remained effective cartridges for serious Big Game hunters). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:09:08 -0300 From: "M.J. Ackermann, MD" Subject: All that strict German gun control, and she's still dead. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8325451.stm > Alex W is led into court - his full name has not been released for > fear of vigilante attacks > > *The husband of a pregnant Egyptian woman killed in a German courtroom > has described how her alleged attacker stabbed her to death in front > of him.* > > He testified as the trial of Alex W, a 29-year-old Russian-born > German, opened in Dresden, in the same courtroom where Marwa Sherbini > was killed in July. > Surrounded by cops, and in a secure "gun free" zone, the victim had no chance to defend herself. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) Rural Family Physician, Box 13, 120 Cameron Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca "Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst". ** Please always use BCC and erase appended address lists when forwarding or sending to groups ** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:29:54 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Firearm owners shoot themselves in the foot Item forwarded to me by South African activist Peter Moss: Firearm owners shoot themselves in the foot. > http://www.gunownerssa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2716#2716 Having developed over many years a hide thicker than an elephants to ward off and ignore the rhetoric of gun control and government, firearm owners do themselves great damage. All that is required for gun control to gain a foothold is a belief by the public that sacrificing firearm owners will benefit public safety. If ‘the people’ believe stripping firearm owners of basic human rights is necessary to ensure public safety, no protection or objection will be given. As an example of the public protection of rights, government would not dare to remove from convicted criminals of the worst kind, their democratic rights. The public utterly rejected calls for registration of convicted and released paedophiles. Criminals have rights is a well-established and protected principle. [Canada has sex offender and Image – what the public think of firearm owners is vitally important to the survival of firearm ownership. Firearm owners equipped with an elephant hide and ignoring the public image of firearm ownership is all that is required by government to strip a despised, feared and even hated “small minority” of their rights and ability to own firearms. No matter how much firearm owners or organisations then complain, without public support and outrage to defend such an incursion, any rights they had are lost. Not understanding that the willingness and ability of the public to challenge and object to incursions of any rights is the only protection such rights will ever have, is a fatal mistake. Firearm owners have a choice, either defend their public image or become extinct. Pam Crowsley, chairwoman of Gun Free South Africa’s Gauteng chapter, feels that the Firearms Control Act is a necessary measure to ensure the safety of communities. She says: “If you want to own a firearm, you should undergo an approval process - ensuring that only people who are competent and have a real need may keep firearms.” Any firearm owner, who thinks this tactic of deceptive reasonableness and besmirchment is not working to influence the public, need only examine his or her own attitude to firearm ownership. Are certain restrictive measures acceptable? What is the proof that such a measure will ensure public safety? Acceptance that any arbitrary measure will produce public safety is an admission that firearm owners require justified control. – The image that firearm owners are a danger to the public is thus established and need only be expanded by further claims of a danger to public safety. Protect the image of firearm ownership or accept that the continued ability to own firearms will be removed because the public will believe that it is for their own good. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:36:19 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Gun registry has been a failure [Some good arguments by Gary Mauser. I don't recall seeing this article on the CFD]. Gun registry has been a failure Burnaby Now Published: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 > http://www2.canada.com/burnabynow/news/opinion/story.html?id=346ad748-17c8-4b3e-a72c-cf449ffbe9df Dear Editor: Is the gun registry a failure or a success? Recent letters have shed little light on the question even though they were stuffed with statistics. It's time to compare competing claims. Anti-gun zealots claim the registry is working because gun deaths have declined since the long-gun registry began in 2001. The primary problem with this claim is that counting gun deaths is not an appropriate way to measure success. Gun laws should improve public safety, not just reduce one way of killing. Would Canadians be safer if murderers somehow abandoned guns for knives and bombs? Gun death accounting ignores the problem of "substitution." Eliminating just one of the many alternative weapons is not likely to reduce murders or suicides. Two examples illustrate this point. First, in many countries where guns are banned, such as Mexico and the former Soviet Union, the murder rates are more than 10 times greater than in Canada. Second, suicides in Canada involving shootings have dropped over the past few decades, while hangings have increased correspondingly so that there is little net change in overall suicide rate. You decide: Does this make the gun registry a success? One of the original justifications for the gun registry was that it would protect vulnerable women. Unfortunately, no changes are seen: More domestic murders continue to be committed with kitchen knives than with firearms. The best measures to use in evaluating the gun registry are murder and suicide rates. The statistics are unequivocal: the gun registry has not had a meaningful impact on either. The homicide rate had fallen impressively before 2001 but has remained relatively stable since. Due primarily to a booming economy and an aging population, the homicide rate slipped from 2.7 per 100,000 in 1991 to 1.8 in 2000. After the long-gun registry was introduced, the homicide rate had risen to 2.0 by 2005. The gun registry has failed to improve public safety. It is time we stopped wasting money on harassing hunters and target shooters. We should focus on jailing violent criminals and repeat offenders. Study after study has shown that almost all (85 to 99 per cent) guns used by criminals are smuggled into Canada and have never been registered. The Conservatives under Stephen Harper are introducing laws that will actually improve public safety. Research backs up common sense; putting violent criminals and repeat offenders in jail longer significantly reduces crime rates. Liberals continue to be more concerned with the rights of criminals than the safety of Canadians. Gary Mauser, professor emeritus, Simon Fraser University ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:31:55 -0400 From: Jules Sobrian Subject: White Lily > Sounds pretty good - who will be carrying it, or do I have to special > order it? I expect Amazon, and Barnes and Noble, with a great likelihood that Chapters and Indigo will carry it in Canada. I will keep the CFD readership informed as the work progresses. I will have a number of copies on which I could keep the cost down by keeping shipping and handling to a minimum. I am also considering contributing something from each sale to a firearms defence fund. Thanks for the interest. Jules ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:57:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: TorStar - Boys, 12, charged after girls shot with air guns http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/716375--boys-12-charged-after-girls-shot-with-air-guns Boys, 12, charged after girls shot with air guns Torstar News Service Published On Mon Oct 26 2009 GODERICH, Ont. Two 12-year-old Goderich boys have been charged with assault with a weapon after young girls were shot with air guns. Huron OPP were called around 5:15 p.m. Sunday after an 11-year-old girl was shot several times with the guns. Officers investigated and found that two 12-year-old boys had been playing with some other kids when one of the boys pulled the guns out of his backpack. Police allege the boys shot one girl about 20 times at close range. Two other girls were also shot. Some of the shots broke the skin and left welts. Police later located the boys and seized their air guns. They have been charged with assault with a weapon and discharging a gun with intent. Waterloo Region Record ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:10:24 -0600 From: "Walter Hornby" Subject: bullet proof vests Really Al you should keep up with the times. Here is just one blurb " Furthermore, an enhanced version of Rhine Ammo, called Black Rhinos, have a sharp point, designed to penetrate bullet-proof vests." DVC Walter Hornby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:20:20 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Statistics on illegal gun use With all the hue and cry about the vote for C-391 approaching on Nov. 3rd - now would be the time for a few 'tight' letters to editors providing stat's and info with *citations* about the 'real' source of crime guns. Forget the harassment of hunters and target shooters. The 'registry' is painless, cost free and is completed in minutes while one makes a gun purchase. It IS a costly, expansive waste of public resources directed to tracking legally used guns of police sanitized owners - while it's the 'illegal' criminal's guns needing attention. [But the cops argue it works]. Forget the Liberals being more concerned with the rights of criminals than the rights of honest citizens - yesterday's news, irrelevant and blatantly hysterical. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:39:00 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Media - Donation to Breast Cancer research Peter suggested: > What if a local club or organization were to host a "Shoot For Life" > charity event for BREAST CANCER! Been done by a progressive s/w Ont club, the East Elgin Sportsmen's Assoc., and it made the local print weekly, Aylmer Express, on 2009 09 30. I understand it followed rifle and shotgun events in May and especially an IPSC shoot in September. $4,300 was donated for Beast Cancer research. Annual yearly donations to a worthy cause are planned - next year will be for Cystic Fibrosis research. [Last year's attempted donation to the Thames Valley District School Board got off track via errant pre-event publicity and was refused while two(?) previous years had been accepted. Apparently a willing recipient is being sought for the $5,000]. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:01:24 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Gun registry has been a failure At 07:36 PM 10/26/2009 -0500, you wrote: > >[Some good arguments by Gary Mauser. I don't recall seeing this article >on the CFD]. > >Gun registry has been a failure > >Burnaby Now >Published: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 >> http://www2.canada.com/burnabynow/news/opinion/story.html?id=346ad748-17c8-4b3e-a72c-cf449ffbe9df > >Dear Editor: > >Is the gun registry a failure or a success? Recent letters have shed >little light on the question even though they were stuffed with >statistics. It's time to compare competing claims. > >Anti-gun zealots claim the registry is working because gun deaths have >declined since the long-gun registry began in 2001. The primary problem >with this claim is that counting gun deaths is not an appropriate way to >measure success. Gun laws should improve public safety, not just reduce >one way of killing. Would Canadians be safer if murderers somehow >abandoned guns for knives and bombs? snip >The gun registry has failed to improve public safety. It is time we >stopped wasting money on harassing hunters and target shooters. We >should focus on jailing violent criminals and repeat offenders. Study >after study has shown that almost all (85 to 99 per cent) guns used by >criminals are smuggled into Canada and have never been registered. The >Conservatives under Stephen Harper are introducing laws that will >actually improve public safety. Research backs up common sense; putting >violent criminals and repeat offenders in jail longer significantly >reduces crime rates. Liberals continue to be more concerned with the >rights of criminals than the safety of Canadians. > >Gary Mauser, professor emeritus, > >Simon Fraser University One could substitute "the firearms owner licensing scheme" for "gun registry and come to the same conclusion. As well as "Canadian Firearms safety Course".... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, October 26, 2009 11:11 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: "Perfect Storm" For UN Gun Control Agenda The Barr Code - October 26, 2009, "Perfect Storm" For UN Gun Control Agenda by Bob Barr http://blogs.ajc.com/bob-barr-blog/2009/10/26/%E2%80%9Cperfect-storm%E2%80%9D-for-un-gun-control-agenda/?cxntfid=blogs_bob_barr_blog The folks at United Nations headquarters in New York City, and our "allies" at Number 10 Downing Street in London, must be rubbing their hands with glee. Gun control groups here and abroad likewise are at last quietly cheering. Why? After a decade and a half of pushing unsuccessfully to secure America's support for a legally-binding, international instrument to regulate the marketing, transfer and brokering in firearms, they are now on the brink of success. The process of formally negotiating an Arms Trade Treaty ("ATT") now has Washington's seal of approval; announced October 14th by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It was not always thus. In the summer of 2001, the UN formally launched its multi-year effort to institutionalize its role as regulator of international transfers of firearms; something it had coveted openly since the mid-1990s. In July 2001, John Bolton had been serving as President George W. Bush's undersecretary of state for arms control and international security affairs for barely two months. It is this office at the state department that is responsible for issues ranging from nuclear disarmament to land mine eradication. When the UN began its foray into "small arms and light weapons" (a term that incorporates virtually every type, size and model of firearm) in the mid-90s, the issue fell into the lap of whoever occupied that office. In one of his first public addresses after being sworn in as undersecretary, Bolton delivered the opening statement for the United States at the UN arms conference on July 9, 2001. His blunt words shocked many of the delegates present. The message he delivered made crystal clear, with reference to our constitutionally-guaranteed "right to keep and bear arms," that the US would not be a party to any international effort that would directly or indirectly infringe that fundamental right. Over the next five years, in meeting after meeting, the US was true to the words Bolton delivered in 2001. Refusing to bow to intense pressure from many of our "allies," including most notably the UK, the US opposed and even vetoed numerous efforts to afford the UN any legally-binding power to regulate the "international" trafficking in firearms. The Bush Administration realized that doing so would tie US policy makers' hands in supporting certain arms transfers in our own national security interests. Moreover, and more relevant for Second Amendment purposes, a legally-binding instrument purporting to regulate illicit international transfers of firearms, would necessarily touch domestic activities. For example, in order to know and regulate international transfers, the UN folks would have to know what firearms were being manufactured, stocked, and purported to be transferred within each country. The playing field now has changed dramatically. We have a president, a secretary of state, and an undersecretary philosophically in synch with the UN and its member nations who have been clamoring for the US to join the march to an ATT. In her statement of October 14th announcing Washington's reversal on this issue, Clinton made not even passing or indirect reference to the Constitution, much less the Second Amendment; a position so clearly and forcefully employed by Bolton when defending our interests against the international "community." The irony in all this is that the US maintains the most rigorous and consistent legal controls on the export and import of firearms of any nation. If those nations pushing for an international arms trade treaty were sincerely concerned with tightening such controls internationally, all they would have to do would be to adopt regulations and laws as we have in the US already. But that's not their true agenda. The real agenda of these folks at the UN, and in London, Tokyo, Brasilia, and the other capitals around the world of nations pushing the US to "come on board," is not international regulation, but limiting the freedom we enjoy within the United States to keep and bear arms. WHO IS BOB BARR? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Barr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:36:01 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen Dan commented: > You know, it seems to me that there aren't very many people, with the > possible exception of military and/or police officers, who are allowed > to legally possess hollow-point ammunition.... I'm befuddled by the comment. . . I've got all kinds of it from hyper-speed, hollow point centre-fire varmint stuff, Win Fail Safe handgun handgun, fodder for carbine rifles, centre-fire Fail Safe zippers for moose though various black powder sabots, scads of various types of hollow point .22. . . all purchased legally. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:05:18 -0800 From: Bob Subject: Re: Teddy Roosevelt _SUMMARY_ On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:48:50 -0600 (CST), you wrote: |>------------------------------ |> |>Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:08:50 +0000 |>From: Trigger Mortis |>Subject: Teddy Roosevelt |> |>Teddy Roosevelt died around 1919, but he "created pearl harbor on |>Dec/7th/1941"?????????? Are you perhaps thinking of FDR?? |> I mistakenly interpreted the initials TR in: ((> |>TR was possibly the best ever US President. He was a great man)). as: **TRuman**, you know the guy w/o the functioning legs that most didn't even know about till he mentioned his polio situation. Truman, knew about Pearl Harbor with Mcarthur, maybe even George S. Patton. 7th. Jr. had a knowledge of it's event since 1939-->1941, as the FOIA records seem to add up. Conspiracy, naw,......Fact Of Life, just the Geneva Convention statutes, but Pearl harbor was buried under 50 million tons of concrete, as just a bit of collateral damage for the Zionists. *Maybe they should bury the Gun Registry the same way, since the collateral damage of many of us has taken a very high toll already.* TR as in Roosevelt, was on of the 1st to have reasonable dentures, they were made of wood and springs, not ceramic like today.....I imagine they must have hurt a bit some too... |>Bush "created the WTC bombings on 9/11...they forgot to put windows in |>those military cargo planes with the circular logo"?????????? Say |>what???? What are you talking about?? |> Common knowledge and more........ |>Could you order some extra tin foil hats for me too??? |> The don't work as a stealth, even through all the wacky tests on discovery, myth busters and practical home experiments.....but they allow you to be found easier through their magnetic EMR/MRI properties, defeating their purpose completely. |>Alan Harper |> |>alan__harper@hotmail.com |> |>SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM |> |>************************* |> |>> From: vampire@istar.ca |>> To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca |>> Subject: RE: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen |>> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:44:25 -0700 |>> Bob - -- Triad Productions-Fantalla®~EZine~ParaNovel National Association of Assault Research (http://tarbitch.balder.prohosting.com/htmlconc. html) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 05:17:42 +0000 From: Trigger Mortis Subject: RE: bullet proof vests I did a Google search and found it. Looks like more hyperbole to gain publicity. Alan Harper alan__harper@hotmail.com SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM ************************* > From: walter.hornby@gmail.com > To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: bullet proof vests > Date: Mon 26 Oct 2009 20:10:24 -0600 > > > Really Al you should keep up with the times. Here is just one blurb " > Furthermore an enhanced version of Rhine Ammo called Black Rhinos > have a sharp point designed to penetrate bullet-proof vests." > > DVC > Walter Hornby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:11:55 -0400 From: Dan Haggarty Subject: Re: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen I was wrong. I think that the subsequent discussion made that quite clear and unambiguous. Please don't let it bother you excessively. Dan Lee Jasper wrote: > Dan commented: > > > You know, it seems to me that there aren't very many people, with the > > possible exception of military and/or police officers, who are allowed > > to legally possess hollow-point ammunition.... > > I'm befuddled by the comment. . . > > I've got all kinds of it from hyper-speed, hollow point centre-fire > varmint stuff, Win Fail Safe handgun handgun, fodder for carbine rifles, > centre-fire Fail Safe zippers for moose though various black powder > sabots, scads of various types of hollow point .22. . . all purchased > legally. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:45:45 -0300 From: "Moore Vision" Subject: Re: US PRESIDENT Obama is bad news and I'm not even thinking guns, yet. Leo Moore New Brunswick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:20:03 -0600 From: "Med Crotteau" Subject: Fw: Onion fighting flu's " NFR " With everyone worried about the flu this year, I thought I would forward this to all my friends. It can't hurt & costs next to nothing. Give it a try, just don't eat the onions after. Cheers! Well we know that onion takes away bad odors in an area...... ...could just be truth in this. Wouldn't it be wonderful if this actually works Onions fight flu virus Forget the spicy candles and herbs to freshen the smell in your house! Try onions! OK, it is true. After reading this you will think that I have really lost it. However, this is a true story. In 1919 when the flu killed 40 million people there was this Doctor that visited the many farmers to see if he could help them combat the flu. Many of the farmers and their family had contracted it and many died. The Doctor came upon this one farmer and to his surprise, everyone was very healthy. When the Doctor asked what the farmer was doing that was different the wife replied that she had placed an unpeeled onion in a dish in the rooms of the home, (probably only two rooms back then). The doctor couldn't believe it and asked if he could have one of the onions and place it under the microscope. She gave him one and when he did this, he did find the flu virus in the onion. It obviously absorbed the bacteria, therefore, keeping the family healthy. Now, I heard this story from my hairdresser in AZ. She said that several years ago many of her employees were coming down with the flu and so were many of her customers. The next year she placed several bowls with onions around in her shop. To her surprise, none of her staff got sick. It must work. (And no, she is not in the onion business.) The moral of the story is, buy some onions and place them in bowls around your home. If you work at a desk, place one or two in your office or under your desk or even on top somewhere. Try it and see what happens. We did it last year and we never got the flu. If this helps you and your loved ones from getting sick, all the better. If you do get the flu, it just might be a mild case. Whatever, what have you to lose? Just a few bucks on onions!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #507 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)