Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, November 22 2009 Volume 13 : Number 573 In this issue: Re: US Justice Department supports more 'gun control' Re: They're eating their own young. EDITORIAL: Keep the right to self-defence THE LONG GUN By Bill Walton Re: EDITORIAL: Keep the right to self-defence 10000 times a day? Letter to Globe and Mail (just sent) Re: 10000 times a day? Re: 10000 times a day? 36-Year-Old Man Charged In Road Rage Incident Re: Letter to Globe and Mail (just sent) the house of everyone is his castle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:58:50 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: US Justice Department supports more 'gun control' The rebellion is coming thats and they know it~! why the gunregistry...ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:04 PM Subject: US Justice Department supports more 'gun control' > Holder tells Senate committee Justice Department supports more 'gun > control' > > November 21, 10:57 AM - Gun Rights Examiner, > David Codrea > http://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m11d21-Holder-tells-Senate-committee-Justice-Department-supports-more-gun-control > > In unmistakably clear admissions before the Senate Judiciary Committee on > Nov. 18, Attorney General Eric Holder signaled strong administration > support for additional "gun control" edicts. > > Law Enforcement Alliance of America, the only national law enforcement > organization to oppose Holder's confirmation, issued a press release > warning: > > Drawing reasonable conclusions from what Holder publicly said, we now > know: > > . Holder wants a national, permanent gun registration system administered > by law enforcement. A registration of honest citizens that have cleared > the > federal background check for gun purchases with those records permanently > retained by and shared among law enforcement. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:11:18 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: They're eating their own young. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "M.J. Ackermann, MD" To: "CFD" Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:49 PM Subject: They're eating their own young. > The time for choices is now. I don't want to see the Conservatives > continue to change my country. They are, slowly, like any dictatorship, > changing the world. Torture doesn't exist, corruption is a fabrication. Do > we really have the right leader to discuss these questions? Can someone > really write these insanities and lead us to believe that he simply > changed his mind? In order to justify violence, he must have engaged in > serious thought. Otherwise, it's very dangerous. How can we be sure that > he won't change his mind one more time? > THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK..If they do go under ? it took way too long. But for the illegal immigrants voting for the Lieberals they would never have gotten into power. I was watching the Federal Minister of Immigration on TV this am and he stated that 65% of the refugee claimants coming to this country have been rejected as invalid. they were just trying to jump the queue He also said that as a refugee CLAIMANT they get immediate health care and welfare, and it costs up wards of $30,000.00 to support ONE illegal refugee claimant.so if its a family of say 4? thats $120,000.00 of my and your tax money gone. It would appear that to survive in this country it would be better for ALL the unemployed to reject Canadian citizenship and come back in as an illegal immigrant ? Theyd be much better off. ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Sun, November 22, 2009 10:02 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: EDITORIAL: Keep the right to self-defence VICTORIA TIMES COLONIST - NOVEMBER 22, 2009 EDITORIAL: Keep the right to self-defence http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/editorials/Keep+right+self+defence/2253 093/story.html When two thieves broke into his jewelry store and put a gun to his wife's head, Dennis Galloway fought back. The Port Alberni resident fetched a handgun and opened fire. One of the intruders was wounded; the other escaped unharmed. The incident happened a year ago, but Galloway's actions remain a source of controversy. The man he injured is now able to speak with police and details of the shootout have polarized the community. To many, Galloway is a hero. People have come into the store to shake his hand. But others see his actions as a threat to public safety. Even the authorities were split on the matter. The local RCMP detachment wanted Galloway charged with unsafe use of a firearm. However the Crown prosecutor declined and no action was taken. So where does this leave us? Is Galloway a courageous husband who stood his ground or a dangerous vigilante who took the law into his own hands? Unfortunately, the Canadian justice system is less than clear on this question. Two other cases in progress make that painfully obvious. In Toronto, storekeepers apprehended a man who had been stealing from their shop. Surveillance cameras show the man taking goods from their sidewalk displays and riding away on a bicycle. When he returned an hour later, the owner and two employees gave chase. They caught him, tied him up and held him until police arrived. There is no question they got the right man. He later pleaded guilty. But criminal proceedings are also going forward against the storekeepers. They've been charged with kidnapping, forcible confinement and carrying a concealed weapon (one of them had a box cutter on his belt). If convicted on all charges, they could face life in prison. In Stettler, Alta., a rancher tried to apprehend a thief who was making off with an ATV. It's alleged the crook had earlier stolen one of the farm trucks. As he was making good his escape, the rancher fired a shotgun after him. The man suffered no life-threatening injuries. As with the Toronto case, charges have been filed against the property owner. He faces seven criminal counts, including assault, criminal negligence causing bodily harm and discharging a firearm. Set aside what looks like prosecutorial overkill in both of these cases. The charge sheets appear excessive. But where does self-defence begin and end? The authorities in Stettler argue that since the alleged robber was unarmed, the use of a shotgun was unwarranted. The case against the storekeepers rests on a different distinction. The man they apprehended wasn't caught in the act. He had allegedly stashed the loot stolen earlier and was returning for a second helping. According to the Crown prosecutor, that nullifies any right his victims had to detain him. Let's agree that when force is needed, we would prefer to see it exercised by a trained police officer. But there is a common factor in each of these cases. For different reasons, none of the victims felt they could count on police assistance. Dennis Galloway had only seconds to save himself and his wife. There was no time to dial 911. The shoplifter in Toronto has been stealing from local businesses for more than 30 years. Store owners say they have no choice but to protect themselves. And remote farm buildings in rural Alberta are easy pickings. It might be a long way to the nearest RCMP detachment. None of these considerations justify excessive use of force. But they could establish grounds for self-defence. The desire of law enforcement agencies to protect us is admirable. But there might be occasions when their help is not at hand. In these exceptional situations, self-defence remains an important right. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, November 22, 2009 10:07 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: THE LONG GUN By Bill Walton THE LONG GUN By Bill Walton BayToday.ca - Sunday, November 22, 2009 http://www.baytoday.ca/content/editorials/details.asp?c=34289 I have long been an advocate for doing away with the Long Gun registry, firstly as a needless waste of money because of lack of compliance and bureaucratic bungling, and secondly because I believe most of the long gun owners are not a threat to public safety. I also support much stiffer penalties and enforcement on the handgun side of the registry. Yes, people have used long guns in crimes, but likely no more often than knives or bludgeoning instruments. Bad people will do bad things and that is the crux of gun crimes. I have some sympathy for the police who are said to use the gun registry on a regular basis, however, given the non-compliance of registering guns, it would be a foolhardy officer indeed who entered any home without the thought in his or her head that there may be a gun in the house. Certainly as soon as officers enter a building, there are guns in the building. Setting aside the handgun problem and the police use of the registry, my support for the long gun people slipped a few notches last week. No, it was not the pictures in the local paper of kids shooting deer or people hanging dead deer in their front yard that did it. As reprehensible as those sights may be to those not familiar with the hunting culture of some people in Northeastern Ontario, it was the report from the Ministry of Natural Resources that caught my attention. In a two-week period that coincided with the opening of the long gun season, 25 Conservation Officers (that is likely the entire compliment of COs for the province under the present urban-driven political regime here) checked 2,800 hunters. They found 409 violations, seized 23 moose, laid 217 charges and issued 192 warnings. A busy time for the officers. Almost one in seven hunters was doing something wrong. Some of these misdeeds were for not having valid tags, no license and trespassing but other hunters were doing the very things that give the long gun user a poor reputation: having loaded firearms inside a vehicle, carrying loaded guns at night; careless hunting such as shooting across a roadway and firing a gun from a vehicle. Officer placed special emphasis on hunter safety including the requirement to wear blaze orange. Wearing orange was the topic in another news report this week where a judge excused a hunter for fatally shooting a woman who was wearing white while walking in the bush in deer season. There is a chap you would really like to have in your hunt camp! If it is white - shoot it - it must be a deer. Allowing that there may have been some multiple charges for some of these intrepid, fearless, gun-toting men, women and children, it is likely that one in ten of the people who are hunting are doing something wrong. It may be their innate contrarian nature that causes hunters to not follow the rules, for it must be something that drives them to slaughter their own meat rather than have a butcher behind the meat counter slice off a steak or mince some hamburger for them like the rest of us. I just hope that when they go back to their homes they clean, store and lock their guns away in a safe manner. Sometimes we should follow the rules. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:26:37 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: EDITORIAL: Keep the right to self-defence - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:02 AM Subject: EDITORIAL: Keep the right to self-defence > VICTORIA TIMES COLONIST - NOVEMBER 22, 2009 > EDITORIAL: Keep the right to self-defence > http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/editorials/Keep+right+self+defence/2253093/story.html >. The desire of law enforcement agencies > to protect us is admirable. But there might be occasions when their help > is > not at hand. In these exceptional situations, self-defence remains an > important right. The police are NOT mandated to protect the individual .That has been a court decision many times , here and in the US> So its up to the individual to protect him/herself ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:39:00 -0800 From: "Mike Cianci" Subject: 10000 times a day? Who said " the Police access the Firearms Registry more than 10000 times a day" I need to know to answer an editorial in the Kamloops Daily News which used the quoted statement. This is would mean more than 3.65 million times each year, about once for every eight men, women and children in Canada (pop about 30 million.) This number is clearly a plain, bare, bold faced lie. The number possibly represents the number of times the police accessed the main data bank, (of which firearm registration is a subset), vehicle registrations, license plates, suspects addresses, criminal record checks etc. Ciao MikeCianci, Kamloops BC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:03:32 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to Globe and Mail (just sent) The Conservative spin machine spins on ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, Jeffrey Simpson speaks to the Justice Minister witholding an RCMP report which showed the gun registry in a positive light until after the vote on C-391 was cast. This is hardly earth shattering, and far worse sins have been committed, even by Mr. Simpson's own particular brand of politician - -- the Liberals. Even more egregious was the information withheld from Parliament in the process of rationalizing the Canadian Firearms Act. Acting RCMP Commissioner JPR Murray described an erroneous tabulation of crime statistics which inflated the homicide rate by fully an order of magnitude. The Liberal government of Jean Chretien, and in particular Ann McLellan, then Justice Minister buried the report and did nothing to correct the error, in essence misleading Parliament into granting assent for the biggest legislative disaster in Canadian history, the Canadian Firearms Act. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:43:32 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: 10000 times a day? On 22-Nov-09, at 11:39 AM, Mike Cianci wrote: > Who said " the Police access the Firearms Registry more than 10000 > times a day" I need to know to answer an editorial in the Kamloops > Daily News which used the quoted statement. METRO CANADA - September 18, 2009 5:23 a.m. Ribbons aren't enough by Wendy Cukier http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/comment/article/314103--ribbons-aren-t-enough Recently, in a pre-election speech, Prime Minister Stephen Harper told a group in a closed meeting that he needed a majority so his government could dismantle the firearms registry and focus on "the criminals," not "law-abiding gun owners." If only it were that simple. Without information about who owns guns and the guns they own there is no way to keep them from dangerous people. For women around the world, the greatest risk comes from their intimate partners. Fully, 85 per cent of women murdered in Canada are killed by their spouse or partner. Most who are shot are killed with legally owned firearms. Gun violence is not just an urban phenomenon - the rate of women killed with guns is higher in rural areas because there are more firearms. Murders are only the tip of the iceberg - for every woman killed, many more are injured or threatened. Four separate domestic violence inquests recommended licensing of all gun owners and registration of all firearms. Currently, licensed gun owners are screened for risk factors. Registration helps enforce licensing and also makes it easier for police to remove firearms when there is a risk. Across Canada, police refer to the registry 10,000 times each day and routinely check for the presence of firearms on domestic violence calls, and so do other front line workers. Everyone should remember: "Ask the question. Save a life. Are there guns?" Murders of women with guns have plummeted. In 1991, the year Kim Campbell's firearms law was introduced, 85 women were shot and killed in Canada, (0.3 per 100,000). By 2005, this had fallen by well more than 50 per cent to 32 women (0.09 per 100,000). Murders without guns did not decrease as dramatically. Canada's law has been heralded worldwide as a model for addressing armed violence against women. And the United Nations has gone so far as to suggest that states that do not adequately regulate firearms fail to meet their obligations under international law particularly with respect to the safety of women and children. The global campaign to end armed violence against women, launched by NGOs around the world, underscores the importance of regulating firearms to protect women. In Canada, we have made significant progress since the 1989 Montreal massacre focused attention of the problem of violence against women. We should be moving forward, not backwards. As recent tragedies have shown, all too painfully, there is much more that must be done. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:48:03 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: 10000 times a day? On 22-Nov-09, at 11:39 AM, Mike Cianci wrote: > Who said " the Police access the Firearms Registry more than 10000 > times a day" I need to know to answer an editorial in the Kamloops > Daily News which used the quoted statement. Mothers of Gun Violence Victims Call For More Controls on Firearms Not Less http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/May2009/08/c9887.html TORONTO, May 8 /CNW/ - Just days before Mother's Day, mothers of victims of gun violence launched the Mothers for Gun Control Campaign at Queen's Park in Toronto. They are calling on Canadians to stand up for gun control and let the federal government know that they oppose any measures taken to weaken gun control. Elaine Lumley, mother of Aidan, shot and killed in Montreal, QC in November 2005; Audette Shephard, Mother of Justin, shot and killed in Toronto, ON in June 2001 and Karen Vanscoy, mother of Jasmine, shot and killed in St. Catharines, ON in September 1996 represented the group and shared their tragic stories. As part of the ongoing campaign, a Mother's Day message video was also released to help inform and spread the word that the dismantling of the gun registry is a threat to the public safety of all Canadians. The video can be viewed at www.guncontrol.ca The timing of this campaign coincides with the recent introduction by the federal Conservatives of two Bills into Parliament. Bill S-5 before the Senate abolishes the registration of rifles and shotguns. Private Member's Bill C-301in the House of Commons, goes even further. In spite of strong opposition by police and safety groups, the Conservatives are pandering to a vocal gun lobby which has been running an expensive and aggressive campaign including paid advertising and promotions. The victims of gun violence want more than sympathetic tears and condolence. They want action. "All guns are potentially dangerous," said Vanscoy. "All gun owners need to be licensed and all guns need to be registered. I really don't understand the reasoning behind this idea that we should make people accountable for their handguns but not their long guns. That would only mean use of long guns in violent crimes would increase again." It was too late for some of the mothers of victims of gun control, but what they have learned from their tragedies could save the lives of other Canadians. "We need to reduce the chances dangerous people will have easy access to guns," said Lumley. "Gun control is part of the solution. If we want to know where relaxing our laws will take us we only need to look south of the border." "Abolishing the long gun registry leaves no way to track how many guns a given person possesses or to hold them accountable for what happens to those guns," adds Vanscoy. "It also means that police have less information about the firearms they might face when going on an emergency call." Families of victims of gun violence fought to pass the law. And they defended it all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada. Although it was forged in death and misery there is strong evidence that it is working. Police organizations argue that it is a valuable tool and use the registry nearly 10,000 times a day. With strong controls murders with rifles and shotguns have also decreased dramatically, from 107 in 1991 to 32 in 2007. Although the government claims it is abolishing the registry to save money, the money has already been spent. The RCMP estimate that ending the registration of rifles and shotguns will save only about $3 million a year. A small amount compared to the costs of gun violence. Mother's Day is one of the most difficult days of the year for those who have lost a child to violence. The claim that filling out a few forms to register a firearm "punishes" law abiding gun owners trivializes the costs of gun violence and the "punishment" survivors suffer every day of their lives. "Our Mother's Day wish is to have MORE control on firearms NOT less," said Shephard. "When I see other mothers whose sons are murdered by gun violence it's not only their sons, they are also my sons." The struggle should not be left to the victims. The silent majority must speak out. Canadians should email and call their local MPs and Senators asking them to vote against Bills C-301 and S-5 and to oppose any measures to weaken gun control. For further information: Kathleen Powderley, Communications Consultant, (416) 803-5597, Powderley@primus.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:49:13 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: 36-Year-Old Man Charged In Road Rage Incident http://www.wgal.com/news/21663785/detail.html 36-Year-Old Man Charged In Road Rage Incident John W. Danner Accused Of Displaying Gun November 19, 2009 SWATARA TOWNSHIP, Pa. -- A 36-year-old Hummelstown man faces charges in connection with a road rage incident. John W. Danner will be charged with two counts of simple assault and recklessly endangering another person, Swatara Township police said. At about 5:45 p.m. Wednesday, police responded to the incident on Paxton Street (Route 322) near Hoss's. The victims told police that Danner drove next to their vehicle and showed a black pistol. Before he displayed the gun, the victims told police, he was driving recklessly, flashing his lights and cutting them off. Police said they pulled Danner over on Interstate 83 northbound and recovered a loaded semiautomatic handgun, two shotguns and ammunition. Copyright 2009 by WGAL.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:33:12 -0700 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Letter to Globe and Mail (just sent) At 02:03 PM 11/22/2009 -0500, you wrote: > >The Conservative spin machine spins on ... (fwd) > >Dear Sir/Madame, > >Jeffrey Simpson speaks to the Justice Minister witholding an RCMP report >which showed the gun registry in a positive light until after the vote on >C-391 was cast. This is hardly earth shattering, and far worse sins have >been committed, even by Mr. Simpson's own particular brand of politician >-- the Liberals. There is no mention of the Albina Guarnieri report to the Liberal Caucus regarding the value of the firearms legislation. You know the report that was kept secret, then shredded. Please note that Ms Albina Guarnieri voted in favour of bill C391 as did former Solicitor General Wayne Easter. Both were in a position to know the value of the firearms legislation. Both voted in favour of C391 against their party line and party policy. That alone should tell the media, the public, and parliament that there is something rotten with Canada's firearms laws. Maybe the media should do a little research as well as not take statements by politicians and bureaucrats at face value??? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:21:13 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: the house of everyone is his castle Woman gets 10 years for home invasions "The sanctity of a man's house has roots that run deep in the history of our rule of law," Labach noted before quoting a 1604 decision in which the judge wrote, "the house of everyone is his castle." Woman gets 10 years for home invasions The StarPhoenix 30 OCTOBER 2009 by Betty Ann Adam http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Woman+gets+years+home+invasions/2162187/story.html A woman who participated in two violent home invasions in Saskatoon earlier this year was sentenced Thursday to 10 years in prison. Provincial court Judge Daryl Labach stressed the need to denounce and deter those who would violate the security of the home as he imposed a sentence two years longer than the Crown sought for Candace Stonechild. "The sanctity of a man's house has roots that run deep in the history of our rule of law," Labach noted before quoting a 1604 decision in which the judge wrote, "the house of everyone is his castle." Defence lawyer Michelle LeClair Harding said her client is "definitely" considering an appeal of the sentence. "It is essentially an 11-year sentence for someone who doesn't have a very long criminal record. It is within the range (set out for such crimes by the) Court of Appeal, but it is at the very top end of the range," LeClair Harding said. She had asked for a six-year sentence minus one year for remand time. Crown prosecutor Sandeep Bains had asked for an eight-year sentence. Stonechild, who is in her mid-20s, pleaded guilty Aug. 25 to robbery against a woman on Feb. 25, 2009, using a sawed-off shotgun in robbing another woman on March 2, 2009, carrying a knife for a purpose dangerous to the public peace on March 25 and three counts of breaching probation. For the February robbery, Labach imposed a six-year sentence in addition to one year deemed time served since her arrest on March 25. For the March robbery, Labach imposed a four-year term consecutive to the six years. He also sentenced Stonechild to one-year concurrent for carrying the knife and three, concurrent six-month terms for the probation breaches. She was also ordered to provide a DNA sample to the national data bank and is prohibited from possessing firearms for 10 years. Stonechild was heavily addicted to intravenous drugs and associated mainly with those connected to a gang, living on the street and involved in crime, when she committed the crimes, Labach found in a 19- page written decision. In the February incident, Stonechild and another woman followed the victim from the Blue Diamond Restaurant, demanded items from her and assaulted her. Stonechild and the woman followed the victim to her apartment, where Stonechild broke down the door and beat her all over her body and face, threw her through a mirror and sat on her, before tying her up and gagging her. Stonechild took the victim's bank card, cellphone, jacket and shoes when she left. The victim suffered many bruises, two black eyes and a cut to her wrist that left her with only 80 per cent use of the wrist. Five days later, Stonechild and four or five other people forced their way into a 22nd Street apartment occupied by the second victim, her boyfriend and a few others. Some of the intruders had their faces masked and one carried a sawed- off shotgun. Stonechild carried a machete and others carried knives. The intruders herded the occupants into the living room, pushed them around and demanded their money. They eventually left with wallets, a laptop computer, an MP3 player, some identification and a red baseball cap. About three weeks later, when Stonechild was arrested at the Blue Diamond Restaurant, she was found to be carrying a large butcher knife. At her sentencing hearing, Labach was told about Stonechild's unhappy childhood of abandonment, neglect, sexual and emotional abuse, foster care and rejection by aboriginal and non-aboriginal peers. She was sexually abused at age six while her mother was passed out in another room, was using substances by age 10, smoking pot by 12 and drinking whenever she could by age 13. By 14, she was involved in prostitution and committing crime. She became pregnant with the first of her three children at 16. All of her children are in the custody of other family members. After living in Edmonton and staying out of trouble with the law between 2002 and 2009, Stonechild returned to Saskatoon, where her addictions got "out of control," Labach said. Stonechild's criminal record is relatively short, with three prior violent offences, but the new convictions show an escalating level of violence, which appears to correlate to her increasing substance abuse, Labach found. Nor was there any indication she felt any remorse for the attacks on her victims, he wrote. The serious, violent home invasions occurred within a week of each other, resulting in a need to give greater weight to deterrence and denunciation than to restorative justice measures as might otherwise be considered for an aboriginal person with Stonechild's history, Labach found. badam@sp.canwest.com ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #573 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)