Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, April 12 2010 Volume 13 : Number 803 In this issue: Re: Barb Kane seems Re: "We're going to reload." Courtenay, BC - Garry Breitkreuz - TONIGHT - April 10 - 7PM Re:Seal Hunt 2010: Dark Day Barbara Kane is a hypocrite, not a psychiatrist RE: Barb Kane seems Re: Reloading Question Re: Regina Leader Post - RCMP worried about 15 stolen guns Re: Register flare-guns? Re: Regina Leader Post - RCMP worried about 15 stolen guns "It's Ann Coulter! Don't call the police-Nat. Post RE: Barb Kane seems RE: Reloading Question West can't win. Neither can we afford to lose" Nat. Post "Reality Check" B.C. government hopes to zap Taser challenge LETTER: What is the purpose of gun registry? Member of Unit Linked to 'Dirty Dozen' Dies in Pennsylvania ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:48:34 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Barb Kane seems - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Miller" To: "Cdn-Firearms Digest" Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 2:47 PM Subject: Barb Kane seems > given that the rate of gun violence in the > U.S. is five times higher than the rate of gun violence in Canada. > Barb Kane, Prince George, B.C. > So shes a professional what ???I know of some ladies who are professionals as well but they dont go around claiming they are experts on firearms ? And if the rate in the US is five times higher than ours ? why is that bad ? Thats a good sign as they have ten times the population of Canada , with the same population in California as all of Canada? Using those stats on a per capita basis ? with all our gun control regulations ? Canada is not doing too well then are they? ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:50:39 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: "We're going to reload." This is all well and good but it seems to me that Ron Paul is the only representative of the US Constitution? ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Gingrich" To: "Canadian Firearms Digest" Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 1:36 PM Subject: "We're going to reload." > http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/08/honey-tea-partiers-bask-glow-conservative-women-palin-bachmann/?test=latestnews > > Tea for Two: Partiers Bask in the Glow of Palin and Bachmann > > By Cristina Corbin > > April 08, 2010 > > When Rep. Michele Bachmann grabbed the microphone and electrified a crowd > of Tea Party loyalists on Thursday, the Minnesota Republican's words -- > as well as a few other characteristics -- bore striking similarities to > another galvanizing force within the movement: Sarah Palin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 14:07:31 -0700 From: "Jim Pook" Subject: Courtenay, BC - Garry Breitkreuz - TONIGHT - April 10 - 7PM Just found an ad in my local paper advertising an Open-House with MP Garry Breitkreuz: John Duncan Member of Parliament Vancouver Island North Is pleased to present The Law & Firearms Owners With Garry Breitkreuz Member of Parliament Yorkton - Melville Saturday, April 10, 2010 Westerly Best Western Hotel 1590 Cliffe Avenue, Courtenay FREE ADMISSION Presentation followed by a question and answer period. - -------- Please pass this info to anyone who may be interested. Jim Pook Tahsis, BC Ps: John: An email to the membership to advise of this meeting would have been nice! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:16:25 -0500 From: "George Adair" Subject: Re:Seal Hunt 2010: Dark Day This video looks to be a load of bull. You can clearly see the name of one of the vessels in the video but I checked the Canadian Vessel registry which all ships that size must be part of and there is no ship anywhere in Canada registered under that name. This Humane Society woman is full of it. She claims numerous violations yet I saw only one potential when the guy grabs the seal that had been shot without checking to see if it was unconscious, of course after being shot square in the head I don't think it was alive let alone conscious. And you go on their site and all they show for the seal is that cute little white baby seal which Canada hasn't hunted in about 15 plus years. I don't know who is more full of cow pies them or PETA, well at least we all know where PETA stands. George W. S. Adair No one ever said our freedoms would come cheap. Some we must be prepared to fight for, some we must be prepared to die for. Take your freedoms for granted once and they could be gone forever. - -1776 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:09:46 -0600 (CST) From: Jules Sobrian Subject: Barbara Kane is a hypocrite, not a psychiatrist If Barbara Kane were serious about firearms saving lives and firearms falling into the hands of criminals, she would be advocating the removal o firearms from the hands of police as well as their masters. At least when the master commits an offence with a firearm, he is prosecuted, but when the servant does, his union and bosses protect him from prosecution. Ask Dzienkanski; oops, I'm sorry, the police murdered him. He can't talk, but the video can and it has done so loudly and clearly. Furthermore, every year guns from the military and police find their way into the hands of the underworld; q.i.d., the police and military can't be trusted with guns either, but Dr. Kane isn't lobbying to have these people disarmed. Dr. Kane, you are a hoplophobe, and psychiatrist cure yourself. Jules ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 23:50:34 -0400 From: TONY KATZ Subject: RE: Barb Kane seems The thing to remember was that back before 1934, before we had any gun control and you could carry a pistol if you wanted our gun violence rate was still much lower than the USA. it has nothing to do with legislation at all. it is a cultural difference. > From: roadrunner144@telus.net > To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: Barb Kane seems > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 11:47:08 -0700 > > While gun control is not by any means a panacea, it is an essential > component of any strategy to preventing gun violence. As a psychiatrist > I have had occasion to witness the efficacy of Canada's gun control > legislation in action and have recommended use of the information > contained in the database to ensure that unstable individuals do not > have access to firearms. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:54:15 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Reloading Question > >When creating your own reloads using moulded bullets what are the best >options for a load that will not lead up the barrel yet give accuracy. >Caliber independent. > >Please reply on the Digest. >Keith Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Much depends on you lead alloy, your powder, the velocity you are shooting the bullets at, and the lube you use on the bullets. Not to mention the caliber you intend to shoot. I have shot cast bullets in calibers ranging from the .22 hornet, .223, 22-250, 7x57, .30-30, .308, 30/06, .303 brit, 38 spl, 357 magnum, 45/70 and more using linotype alloy, wheelweight, and lyman #2. I have used IMR 3031, 2400, H335, red dot, green dot, Unique ( an incredible powder that has been around for over 100 years) 700x, and black powder. I have also used pure lead cast bullets in muzzle loaders and cap & ball handguns. Get a copy of the Lyman Cast bullet manual (3rd Ed.) and I would suggest this forum for more information: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:57:05 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Regina Leader Post - RCMP worried about 15 stolen guns http://www.leaderpost.com/news/todays-paper/RCMP+worried+about+stolen+guns/2781474/story.html > >RCMP worried about 15 stolen guns > >April 9, 2010 >Regina Leader-Post > >The RCMP is concerned that 15 hand guns stolen from a truck over the >weekend could end up in the hands of criminals. I am curious about the folks who stole the guns. Would not they be the "hands of Criminals"??? This got past a newswriter and an editor in the paper. Woe unto Canada if this is the caliber of our media.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:14:25 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Register flare-guns? > MONTREAL GAZETTE - APRIL 10, 2010 > LETTER: Register flare-guns? > http://www.montrealgazette.com/Register+flare+guns/2785312/story.html > > Are you ready for the silly question of the day? Following the flare-gun > assault in Longueuil yesterday, what do you think is the best course of > action? > > A - The government should invest a few billion dollars in a flare-gun > registry and licensing scheme for law abiding boaters. Back in '95 I lobbied intensely for the licensing of flare gun owners and the registration of flare guns. 'Stickies' were readily available from the CFAC for attachment to these plastic blaze orange pistols sans serial numbers. . . I knew it'd 'grow' the anti licensing RFC lobby among the citizenry if such was required. What the heck as a gun owner plus boat owner, I was already covered. You can bet that my boat Buds and Coast Guard contacts were ready to lynch me. I was assured by the Accountable gov't of those days (turned out to be a heck of a lot more accountable than todays secretive bunch) that anyone caught using a flare gun for a purpose for which they were not intended, would face the gendarmes. And further, if one used a Vary pistol for an illegal event such as a robbery, charges would follow as for the use of a real cartridge firing piece. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 00:03:50 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Re: Regina Leader Post - RCMP worried about 15 stolen guns Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 08:11:55 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Regina Leader Post - RCMP worried about 15 stolen guns What kind of a f***ing idiot would leave ALL those guns in an unattended vehicle ? UNLESS they were MEANT to be "stolen"?? I cant believe any rational gun-owner would do such a thing ?Unless it was on purpose ? ed/on - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not to worry Ed, the police have a useful tool called the gun registry. The police know where the guns are located? Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 00:40:06 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "It's Ann Coulter! Don't call the police-Nat. Post Given high profile entertainer Ann Coulter's reputation for satire regarding Islamist terrorism, the police refusal to protect her from criminal/terrorist attack as an invited speaker at a university, what makes you think they'd protect ordinary Canadians from the same? http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/04/09/kevin-libin-it-s-ann-coulter-don-t-call-the-police.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 08:43:01 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: RE: Barb Kane seems >The thing to remember was that back before 1934, before we had any gun >control and you could carry a pistol if you wanted our gun violence rate >was still much lower than the USA. it has nothing to do with legislation >at all. it is a cultural difference. In 1979 when the F.A.C. was made mandatory for new firearms acquisitions the gun violence rate was much lower in Canada than the U.S.A. Not to mention there was no change in the dropping trend in gun violence (and all violence) in Canada at the time. Nor was there any change in the firearms accident rate. In 1998 when the firearms license (P.A.L. and P.O.L) was made mandatory for new firearms acquisitions and possession of a firearm was made a criminal offense under sections 91 and 92 of the criminal code the gun violence rate was much lower in Canada than the U.S.A. Not to mention there was no change in the dropping trend in gun violence (and all violence) in Canada at the time. Nor was there any change in the firearms accident rate. In 1992 when an approved firearms safety course was made mandatory in order to obtain an F.A.C. (and in 1998 in order to obtain a firearm license) was made mandatory for new firearms acquisitions the gun violence rate was much lower in Canada than the U.S.A. Not to mention there was no change in the dropping trend in gun violence (and all violence) in Canada at the time. Nor was there any change in the firearms accident rate. In fact the raw data showed a RISE in firearms accidents in 2002. (Mauser) There has been no valid research on the effect of either 1) firearms safety courses or 2) restrictions on obtaining and possession of firearms in Canada and the subsequent effect on 1) firearms crime, 2) domestic violence with firearms 3) the firearms accident rate. Raw data has been presented but the raw data has to be filtered so the research represents criminal use and accidents. Oh as for suicide, the cause of suicide is NOT the method, nor is removing one method of suicide a barrier as someone who has made the decision to commit suicide will find another means. Nor have there been ANY studies done on folks who have committed suicide by means other than a firearm when a firearm was available to them. Including suicide in gunshot death and wound statistics for studies on crime and accidents is a non starter and any study that claims a link should be reviewed very carefully for willfull errors and wishfull thinking. The Canadian government has the resources to do a study on whether or not firearms licensing has effected 1) the crime rate 2) the accident rate 3) the suicide rate They have two groups to compare 1) the group of gun owners that got a license and complied with the law and 2) as many as (or more) gun owners that did not comply with the mandatory license and are not in compliance with section 91 and 92 of the criminal code. 100% of the group that did not get a license are criminals in the eyes of the Canadian govenrment. A study should include a subset of a) violent firearms crime and b) administrative firearms crime (not getting a license, safe storage, and non violent regulatory infractions under the criminal code) Some data is recorded and available in the Canadian Court systems. The only number that would have to be determined is the number of Canadians who possess firearms and have never had a firearms license. That data can very easily be obtained through a simple survey (NOT A TELEPHONE SURVEY) in a mailout with an anonymous questionaire. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:53:57 +0000 From: Trigger Mortis Subject: RE: Reloading Question What caliber are you talking about? Is it a rifle or pistol? Your question is too general. Alan Harper alan__harper@hotmail.com SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:55:19 -0400 > From: goodnite@vianet.ca > To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: Reloading Question > > When creating your own reloads using moulded bullets what are the best > options for a load that will not lead up the barrel yet give accuracy. > Caliber independent. > > Please reply on the Digest. > Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:12:22 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: West can't win. Neither can we afford to lose" Nat. Post An argument for the long war theory of fighting terrorism from Nat. Post columnist Robert Fulford. His last sentence sums it up pretty well but no one in NATO seems willing to explain this analysis to the public. One suspects the growing Islamic populations within those countries is a complicating factor. http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/04/10/robert-fulford-an-essential-mission-in-a-maddening-country.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:43:00 -0700 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: "Reality Check" Another letter re: the Moffat incident. This one from Fort McMurray. "Editor I think I speak for many when I say that Rodney Moffat and his family deserve a sincere apology not only for the actions of the RCMP, but also for the humiliation and hurt that he and his family endured by the doings of these "professionals". It is a sick day and age when those who are supposed to protect us are willing to arrest a mentally disabled person at gunpoint over what is clearly a toy gun. Somebody in this world needs a reality check, and it's not Rodney Moffat." Robert Parsons, Fort McMurray Another disgusted citizen. I think it is finally dawning on Johnny Canuck that the role of the police in our society and their way of interacting with the public has changed significantly, particularly regarding firearms. Each and every potential "man-with-a-gun" call gets treated like it was an attempt on the life of the Prime Minister or Governor General. The response is massive and overwhelming. The result is reduced confidence and respect for the police. Some of us are old enough to remember the days of stopping at the corner store to pick up a bottle of pop on our way out of town to plink at the dump or pot a few bunnies, rifles slung across our backs as we rode our bikes. My highschool had an indoor range and I was proud to be on the rifle team at school and on my cadet team. Annually, we were allowed to bring our .22s to the school range to check 'zero' before hunting season. It was really more of a 'show and tell' opportunuity and all the Marlins, Remingtons and Cooeys came out. Gun crime was virtually unknown in the era that pre-dated FACs, PALs and registration of long arms. These were all touted as crime fighting measures designed to PREVENT such crimes. How much more evident could it be that these measures failed? Wake up, Canada! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:58:10 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: B.C. government hopes to zap Taser challenge [About time Taser International had its wings clipped. It has existed like an independent nation, promoting its wares to folks (police) whose 'interests' are often contrary to the interests of the citizens they are sworn to serve and protect. After years of inadequate gov't over-sight, Taser is finally getting a black eye over its products which are too often found poorly calibrated, to the point of delivering lethal shocks, etc. and the results of its products use are often found not as promised]. B.C. government hopes to zap Taser challenge By THE CANADIAN PRESS > http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/04/12/13549971.html VANCOUVER — The B.C. government is asking a court to throw out Taser International’s challenge of a report from a public inquiry. Commissioner Thomas Braidwood released a report last year from the first phase of a public inquiry linked to Robert Dziekanski’s death. The report concluded that a jolt from a Taser could be fatal and that the weapons’ use should be restricted. But Taser filed a petition asking the B.C. Supreme Court to quash the report, claiming the conclusions weren’t based on the evidence and that Braidwood and others involved were biased. The provincial government is now asking the court to dismiss the case, arguing there’s no evidence to support Taser’s allegations and that the *company has no jurisdiction* to bring forward such a complaint anyway. A hearing scheduled for today will deal with the government’s motion. The B.C. government ordered a two-part public inquiry after Dziekanski’s death in 2007, and the report from the second phase dealing with the Polish man’s death in particular is due out by summer. Dziekanski died soon after Mounties at Vancouver International Airport gave him five Taser jolts. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, April 12, 2010 8:42 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: LETTER: What is the purpose of gun registry? THE KINGSTON WHIG-STANDARD - APRIL 12, 2010 LETTER: What is the purpose of gun registry? http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2529768 With reference to the letter from Randall Inberg, (April 8) and from Philip Osanic ( "Gun registry has a purpose," March 17). I could find nowhere in the dissertation just what this "purpose" was/is. Osanic states that the new law "... brought some irrational fears ... " What Osanic thinks is irrational may be very rational to others when it comes to government regulations in their lives. Many of us are reluctant to take behavioural direction from bureaucrats. Osanic goes on to state "We... have seen fit ... to require the registration of ... motor vehicles." Has this registration of motor vehicles led to increased public safety as the gun registry was purported to do? I think not and accident rates will no doubt bear me out. Likewise, how does this registry improve public safety? Reluctant admissions by the police that no incident of crime prevention can be attributed to this registry shows that public safety has not been affected in any manner. And why does Osanic object to the fact that a citizen, with the proper personal documentation in hand, including proof of government-approved capacity to handle a firearm, can enter a local store and purchase a firearm? Further, he states, "Implemented properly, there need not be exposure to criminal sanction." Since when has government proved to the citizens that they can implement programs properly, this registry itself being a perfect example? The criminal sanctions in the registry bill for not registering a firearm are alone sufficient to support its demise. Osanic seems to imply that the application of reason by the enforcement arm of the registry is to be expected even though not a part of the law. As a lawyer, he should realize more than anyone that this expectation is utopian, not realistic and does not convince the masses that we should expose ourselves to potential criminal charges simply because we expect rational behaviour from the enforcers. > I agree with Osanic that "the ...registry is not a massive Liberal policy failure," since this is a law, not a policy. And it isa law that makes criminals out of millions of Canadians who rightfully feel their freedoms are being substantially and unnecessarily eroded with the passage of this regulation and support its repeal enthusiastically. Of course law enforcement agencies are in favour of this law, as Orsanic makes note. They are also overwhelmingly in favour of the total disarmament of the population, which he does not state. Even the police have admitted that this registry has not saved even one life since its passage and it's in doubt that it ever will. Osanic concludes by saying that the repeal of this bill "...does absolutely nothing to assist in balancing the lawful rights of firearm ownership with the interests of public safety." I might counter that neither does the implementation of the firearm registry bill. Rod Smith, Kingston ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:01:03 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Member of Unit Linked to 'Dirty Dozen' Dies in Pennsylvania http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/12/member-unit-linked-dirty-dozen-dies-pennsylvania/?test=latestnews April 12, 2010 Member of Unit Linked to 'Dirty Dozen' Dies in Pennsylvania John "Jack" Agnew belonged to the Filthy Thirteen, an unofficial unit within the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, that parachuted into France to take a bridge over the Douve River during World War II. AP PHILADELPHIA -- John "Jack" Agnew, one of the original members of a U.S. Army unit that operated behind enemy lines in World War II and is often credited with having loosely inspired the movie "The Dirty Dozen," has died at age 88. Agnew belonged to the Filthy Thirteen, an unofficial unit within the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division. He was pronounced dead Thursday at Abington Memorial Hospital after becoming ill at his home in the Maple Village retirement community in Hatboro, where he and his wife moved about a year ago, his daughter Barbara Agnew Maloney said. On D-Day, the Filthy Thirteen parachuted into France to take a bridge over the Douve River. It was "a mission that would cost most of the men their lives," according to an article in the winter 2008-09 edition of American Valour Quarterly, a publication of the nonprofit American Veterans Center. Before the Battle of the Bulge, Agnew and other members of the unit were requested for pathfinder duty and parachuted into Bastogne, which was besieged by German forces. Agnew operated a beacon to help guide in planes carrying badly needed supplies. Tales of the unit's exploits and a Stars and Stripes military newspaper photograph are said to have inspired "The Dirty Dozen," not because any of the unit's members were convicts like the movie's characters -- they weren't -- but because of their reputation for brawling, drinking and spending time in the stockade. In interviews, Agnew, a private first class, said that came directly from the unit's leader, Jake McNiece. "We weren't murderers or anything, we just didn't do everything we were supposed to do in some ways and did a whole lot more than they wanted us to do in other ways," he told the quarterly. "We were always in trouble." Agnew was among those interviewed in a documentary, "The Filthy Thirteen: Real Stories from Behind the Lines," that was included in a 2006 special edition DVD of "The Dirty Dozen." The 1967 movie, about an Army major who has to train and lead 12 convicts into a mission targeting German officers, starred Lee Marvin, Ernest Borgnine, Charles Bronson, Telly Savalas, Donald Sutherland and Jim Brown. Maloney said her father told her about 30 percent of the movie was true. "And, actually, the scene where they captured the officers, Dad said that was true and he really coordinated that," she said Sunday. Two months ago, Maloney said, she accompanied her father to a military history convention in Louisville, Ky., where she met with three of the four surviving Filthy Thirteen members and three members of Easy Company, which was the focus of the HBO series "Band of Brothers." "Dad, when we were little kids, he'd always say, 'I won the war; I know you don't believe me, but someday you'll know,'" she said. "We didn't really realize it until the 'Band of Brothers' came out." Agnew will be buried with full military honors Tuesday at Forest Hills Cemetery in Huntingdon Valley, in the Philadelphia suburbs, where he and his wife, Elizabeth Agnew, lived for 56 years, Maloney said. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #803 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)