Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, April 30 2010 Volume 13 : Number 841 In this issue: Bellville Intelligencer - Letter - Re: Time to kill long-gun .... Fwd: Confound your enemies . Edmonton Journal - Letter - Harper government should shelve its... Letter to Windsor Star (just sent) ... No new knife law in works for province, Morgan says *NFR* letter to StarPhoenix Winnipeg Freep - Couple survives run-in with marauding youths Winnipeg Freep - Banning blades is pointless, lawyers insist regarding : Confound your enemies Re: Winnipeg Sun - Morden raid nets arms, ammo cache Re: Lobby for Registry [LPC] Bloc playing partisan games with gun registry [LPC] Bloc playing partisan games with gun registry Re: Michael Ignatieff's last-ditch effort ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 07:38:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Bellville Intelligencer - Letter - Re: Time to kill long-gun .... http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2555413 Re: Time to kill long-gun registry (April 23) I really got a kick out of Michael den Tandt's article about the long gun registry. If the good old country boys are so law abiding, why would they object to following a law that has been shown to lower crime rates? I think the police who say that they make use of this registry to solve crimes should influence these law-abiding citizens. If they are all so innocent and never commit crimes, their names should never come up in the registry, so they are upset about something that should never happen. Patricia Pender Belleville letters@intelligencer.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:23:49 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Fwd: Confound your enemies . Begin forwarded message: > From: "Bill Kushniryk" > Date: April 29, 2010 6:25:40 AM PDT (CA) > To: "Len Miller" > Subject: Re: Confound your enemies . > > Thanks for e-mailing me your comment. NOW, if they actually print > it ...... > Hopefully they will! > Bill Kushniryk > ----- Original Message --------------------------------------------- > From: Len Miller > To: editor@wpgsun.com > Cc: Cdn-Firearms Digest ; Kerry Kuran ; bill kushniryk > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:56 PM > Subject: Confound your enemies . > > The Editor, > The Winnipeg Sun, > Sir . > > with regards to the snippy snide remarks to > > both Mike Cummings ( Edmonton ) and > > (Guns aren't the answer to everything. You act like they are.) > > and Bill Kushniryk ( Swan River ) > > (Still, there's a fine line between self-defence and vigilantism.) > > as if they, not you . . are completely stupid. > > These two gentlemen gave reasoned opinion on why one should possess > a firearm, > > and what answer do they get . . sarcasm from you. > > I would encourage the Sun to learn the difference between self > defence and > > vigilantism, before you continue to smear others. > > You are a news source, one that owes respect to your readers . . > > As a corporate entity, you owe your public respect . . . not sarcasm. > > Len Miller > veteran, > Det. retired > Vancouver Police Department . . > > who says: firearms are more of a necessity today, than they have > ever been. > > Unless, of course, you are the Bacon brothers, and the courts are in > over their heads. > > John Lott: more guns . . less crime . (unable to contact Mr. > Cummings) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:52:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Edmonton Journal - Letter - Harper government should shelve its... http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Harper+government+should+shelve+firearms+bill/2964401/story.html Harper government should shelve its firearms bill Edmonton Journal April 29, 2010 Re: "MPs should vote constituents' wishes on gun registry," by Eric Johansson, Letters, April 27. It appears Eric Johansson believes MPs should be "listening to their constituents' wishes" and this would "let the people's voices be heard!" If he were sincere, he would be strongly criticizing Stephen Harper's Conservative MPs who all voted to weaken Canada's firearms laws by supporting Bill C-391. Did Harper secretly "whip" them, or do they all suffer from Bill Casey syndrome? Bill Casey is the Conservative MP who defied Harper on a whipped vote. He supported his constituents' wishes and, for taking this brave principled stance, was forced to sit as an independent. There must be at least 30 to 35 Conservative MPs who were elected in urban ridings where polls show strong support for maintaining the long-gun registry. If they had " listened to their constituents" and "let their voices be heard," Bill C-391 would have never passed second reading and we wouldn't be having this divisive discussion. Harper came to power promising voters he would end party discipline and allow Tory MPs to vote their constituents' wishes. Now he is doing the opposite. If Bill C-391 passes, Harper's Conservatives will be known and remembered for being the first Canadian government to weaken Canada's firearms laws, rather than strengthen them. This will be good news for the gun lobby, but bad for Canada. I hope the Conservatives will stop playing political games and vote to shelve this disastrous bill. Gordon Steele, Edmonton © Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:13:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to Windsor Star (just sent) ... Michael Ignatieff's last-ditch effort (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, Mr. Ignatieff apparently didn't get the memo when he proposed that registry infractions be de-criminalized for those who are otherwise law abiding. At face value, his suggestion appears to be a fair and useful step, but there is a problem. In order for the Canadian Firearms Act to incorporate a registry in the first place, the criminal law had to be changed to make it illegal for any Canadian to own any firearm (Sec 91 92 CCC), except by federal fiat, and so they changed the firearms registry from a property issue under Provincial jurisdiction into a criminal matter which falls under Federal auspices. This sleight of hand is the crux of the widespread objections by responsible firearm owners to the Canadian Fireams Act, as literally millions of law abiding Canadians became criminals overnight by the injudicious stroke of a pen. No, the registry should be dismantled, and the Firearms Act should be repealed in its entirety. Ironically, the previous regime for responsible firearms ownership (FAC) had each and every real public safety measure claimed by the Firearms Act already in place, and at considerable savings to the taxpayer. Every one of them. The Canadian Firearms Act was never about public safety, and indeed criminal activity falls "outside its scope". Our first clue that the Liberals acted in bad faith was then Justice Minister Alan Rock's adamant statement in MacLean's Magazine back in 1994 "I came to Ottawa ... with the firm belief that the only people in this country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers" His bias should have disqualified him from being the architect of a regime for responsible firearm ownership, but instead they put him in charge and so began a systematic disarmament program for law abiding civilians. So much for our liberal democracy. Looks more like a police state to me! Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:32:42 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: No new knife law in works for province, Morgan says *NFR* http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/knife+works+province+Morgan+says/2963993/story.html No new knife law in works for province, Morgan says By James Wood, The StarPhoenix April 29, 2010 The Saskatchewan Party government won't introduce long-contemplated legislation aimed at cutting down on a rash of crimes committed with knives, Justice Minister Don Morgan said Wednesday. Such a law would involve the province overstepping its authority by infringing on federal responsibility for criminal law, he said. Instead, officials within the prosecutions branch will work with police to ensure there is an "appropriate" policy around laying charges under the Criminal Code sections dealing with possession of a dangerous weapon. "We would very much like to be able to give police the tools to be effective, that would work, that would stand up," Morgan told reporters at the legislature. Saskatoon police said this week about 40 robberies have occurred in an area on the city's east side since January. The majority have taken place after midnight and have involved suspects approaching victims with large, sharp-edged weapons. Just over a year ago the government said it would look at legislation with potential measures to give local authorities the ability to forbid the carrying of knives in areas such as parks, public buildings or other public places. Another option would involve age restrictions on purchasing certain types of knives. In February, Saskatoon police Chief Clive Weighill called for legislation that would move the province toward an outright ban on knives. He had asked for provisions to allow police to seize a knife -- or other bladed weapon such as a sword or machete -- even if it hadn't been used in a crime or there was no discernible intention to commit an offence. "I don't think a ban would or could work or could stand up to any kind of (court) challenge," Morgan said Wednesday. Weighill could not be reached for comment. Morgan, the MLA for Saskatoon Southeast, said he shares Weighill's concerns about the use of bladed weapons. He is also paying attention to the recent spate of knife crimes that have occurred. "I think anytime you see crime of that type, everybody should be concerned, everybody should be cautious and be careful . . . of course I'm concerned about it, said Morgan. But beyond the issue of federal jurisdiction, which could lead to a constitutional challenge, there are too many grey areas for provincial legislation relating to knives to overcome, said the minister. "What size of a knife is too big? If you say six inches, then what do you do with someone with a five-inch blade? How do you define what a reasonable purpose is? If someone is in a park having a picnic and they brought a kitchen knife from home, at what point does that become legal or illegal?" Morgan said the government will also work with the federal government to see if there are potential amendments to the Criminal Code relating to knives. He said the issue will likely be discussed at a meeting of western justice ministers in May. From January to October 2009, Saskatoon police documented 299 incidents involving knives, such as assaults, attempted murders and robberies. Regina and Prince Albert law enforcement reported 238 and 75 incidents during the same period, respectively. jwood@sp.canwest.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:14:36 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: letter to StarPhoenix letter sent unpublished I read 'No new knife law in works for province, Morgan says', by James Wood, April 29, 2010. I don't always agree with the Minister of Justice, Don Morgan but this time he makes sense. Morgan said, "We would very much like to be able to give police the tools to be effective, that would work." Our firearm's law employs licensing and registration schemes applied to responsible and innocent people only. No thugs are permitted on these lists. This law has not improved our general population's ethics and morals nor has it improved public safety or reduced crime. How could it? However, Police Chief Clive Weighill's call for legislation that would move the province toward an outright ban on all knives is likewise, useless. What could Chief Weighill and Minister Morgan do to control crime? Experts claim crime levels are more determined by factors relating to population, transportation, the economy, culture and family, climate, law enforcement agencies, the criminal justice system, and citizens' attitudes toward crime and the police. For Morgan and Weighill to fight crime they should seek legislation geared towards these contributing factors of crime. Unfairly shifting the blame of society's miscreants upon the law-abiding has been done, for example using the "gun control law", but it has not reduced crime or improved public safety. Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox, Sask ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:12:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Winnipeg Freep - Couple survives run-in with marauding youths http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/couple-survives-run-in-with-marauding-youths-92162449.html Couple survives run-in with marauding youths By: Staff Writer 27/04/2010 1:00 AM | Comments: 61 A MAN narrowly missed being hit in the head with a steel bar after he and a female friend were accosted by about 12 male youths downtown Sunday night. Brodie Milne, a 26-year-old Free Press employee, and a friend were sitting on a Vaughan Street bench near Portage Avenue around 9:30 p.m. when a group of youths approached. Milne estimated their ages ranged from eight to 14 years. The youths started asking Milne for cigarettes and making lewd comments towards the woman. Fearing for her safety, the woman walked away and began to cross Portage. As Milne stood up, one of the youths smacked a pack of cigarettes out of his hand. The pack landed on the bench and two of the younger kids pounced on it. "They were like dogs after scrap food. It was bizarre," said Milne. "(They were) on the bench, on all fours, ripping at the cigarette pack." One youth had a small knife and another a five-inch steel bar swinging from the end of a metre-long rope, said Milne. The youths continued to demand Milne hand over his property. Milne said he thinks the appearance of another man caused the youths to take off down a back lane. A police spokesman said Monday afternoon officers continue to investigate the incident and have made no arrests. letters@freepress.mb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:29:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Winnipeg Freep - Banning blades is pointless, lawyers insist http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/banning-blades-is-pointless-lawyers-insist-92393374.html?commentConfirmed=y#comments Banning blades is pointless, lawyers insist By: Mary Agnes Welch 29/04/2010 1:00 AM | Comments: 3 KNIFE crime might be on the rise in Winnipeg, but banning blades won't help and amounts to a knee-jerk overreaction, say Winnipeg defence lawyers. And it turns out the only province considering such a measure -- Saskatchewan -- pretty much agrees. "We have not yet come up with legislation that we believe will be a workable and effective tool for police," said Saskatchewan Justice Minister Don Morgan Wednesday. "At this point, it's not on." Statistics Canada data released earlier this week show Winnipeg leads the country in violent crimes involving a knife. More than 80 Winnipeggers have been killed with a knife since 1999 and more than 1,700 Manitobans were the victims of knife crimes in 2008 alone. That prompted some to suggest Manitoba ought to follow Saskatchewan's lead and consider banning blades in public places or placing age restrictions on who can buy some kinds of knives. Saskatchewan started looking at legislation after a plea from Saskatoon's police chief, who is also grappling with a high rate of knife crime. Manitoba Justice Minister Andrew Swan was asked about Saskatchewan's idea and said he'd consider any interesting proposals. Provincial staff said the idea of a blade ban will likely be discussed at next month's gathering of provincial and federal justice ministers in Vancouver. Winnipeg police Chief Keith McCaskill echoed Swan, saying police are seeing more edged weapons used in crime and he's open to anything that could help police combat knife violence. But McCaskill reserved judgment until he knows exactly what Saskatoon police Chief Clive Weighill is proposing and what the Saskatchewan government might do. McCaskill called Weighill Tuesday to ask for some details. But Saskatchewan's justice experts have so far been unable to work out the kinks in any proposed legislation banning blades. Prohibiting or restricting certain kinds of weapons is probably a federal issue under the Criminal Code, said Morgan. And any restrictions came with some unpalatable consequences. If you ban knives in public places, like parks, you risk penalizing families on picnics. If you ban the use of knives longer than a foot, that affects hunters and fishermen. And, said Morgan, it's not clear how legislation can stop one of the most typical crimes, a kitchen-knife stabbing at a house party. Instead, Morgan said he's looking at ways to help his Crown prosecutors get more aggressive in charging suspects in knife-related crimes. He may ask Ottawa to toughen the penalties for knife crimes under the Criminal Code. That's good news for two criminal defence lawyers, who say the idea of restrictions or bans on knives is fraught with problems exactly like the ones Saskatchewan has encountered. "It's knee-jerk politicking at its very worst," said lawyer Danny Gunn. maryagnes.welch@freepress.mb.ca letters@freepress.mb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:37:31 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: regarding : Confound your enemies Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:56:54 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Confound your enemies . The Editor, The Winnipeg Sun, - ---------"You are a news source, one that owes respect to your readers . . As a corporate entity, you owe your public respect . . . not sarcasm." Len Miller veteran, Det. retired - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Len, Thanks for scribing your letter denouncing the editor. This person is very abusive toward progun writers as you discussed. Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 19:46:44 -0500 From: "Live to Ride" Subject: Re: Winnipeg Sun - Morden raid nets arms, ammo cache > Morden officers conducted the raid alongside at least one Winnipeg-based > member of the National Weapons Enforcement Support Team (NWEST), which > assists police agencies in firearm investigations and traces firearms to > find out if they were stolen or were used in a crime. This is a joke. You can expect many more of these types of raids in the coming months. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:46:53 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Lobby for Registry > CANADIAN ASSOCIATION OF EMERGENCY PHYSICIANS > - NEWS RELEASE - APRIL 28, 2010 > Health care experts say eliminating the registration of rifles and > shotguns will put health and safety of Canadians at risk > http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/April2010/28/c6423.html > > OTTAWA, April 28 /CNW Telbec/ - Today twenty-eight medical, nursing, > allied health and suicide prevention organizations and thirty-three > professionals in the same fields, released an open letter to Members of > Parliament in order to underscore the importance of the gun registry in > helping to prevent domestic murders, accidents and suicides. I read Mauser's comment about 'where's da proof' or whatever . . Gary could have conceded that there IS a 'potential' benefit which might accrue to the lic/reg regime via the 'psychological' impact, raising of consciousness of gun owners, of the CF program, all the political upheaval related to guns, legislation and firearm safety issues, etc. since 1994. I've offered this rationale previously as an 'probable' explanation of the claimed benefit (lacking in any statistical proof) of CFSC/hunter ed training. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:26:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [LPC] Bloc playing partisan games with gun registry http://www.liberal.ca/en/newsroom/media-releases/18028_bloc-playing-partisan-games-with-gun-registry Bloc playing partisan games with gun registry Published on April 29, 2010 OTTAWA – The Bloc Quebecois is playing political games with the national gun registry by working with the Harper Conservatives to prevent pro-registry Quebec witnesses from appearing before the Parliamentary Public Safety Committee next week, Liberal MPs said today. “Here we have Gilles Duceppe backing the Conservatives’ under-handed attempts to remove the vast majority of those witnesses who wish to speak out in defence of the registry,” said Liberal Public Safety Critic Mark Holland. “That way, the bulk of witnesses they’ll hear from are ardent gun advocates who want to defend the government’s plan to scrap the registry.” “If we are to have a full and proper debate about this at Committee, we need to hear from all sides of this issue. But Mr. Duceppe would rather play political games – and the result is that the predominant pro-registry voice in Quebec will not be sufficiently heard.” In devising the witness list yesterday, the Bloc sided with the government to severely limit the number of groups representing victims of crime, lawyers, women’s groups, police, suicide prevention experts, unionists and even public health representatives that will appear at the committee hearings, which begin in early May. “The result is that the hearings may present the false appearance that the anti-registry voice is more prevalent than it is in reality,” said Liberal Deputy House Leader Marlene Jennings. “The Bloc’s reasons for doing this are purely political and completely ignore the best interests of Quebecers.” Westmount--Ville-Marie MP Marc Garneau said Quebecers want the rest of Canada to hear loud and clear that Quebec stands firmly in support of the registry. “By getting as many hardcore gun supporters at the forefront, Mr. Duceppe and his MPs can travel the province and pretend to be different from the Conservatives by saying ‘These are the people that support this Conservative government – is this what you want?’ It is highly deceiving. Mr. Duceppe is putting his political aspirations before the public interest. “Quebecers should be outraged that Mr. Duceppe is putting his partisan ambitions ahead of the safety and security of Quebecers and Canadians,” Mr. Garneau concluded. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:26:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [LPC] Bloc playing partisan games with gun registry http://www.liberal.ca/en/newsroom/media-releases/18028_bloc-playing-partisa=n-games-with-gun-registry Bloc playing partisan games with gun registry Published on April 29, 2010 OTTAWA The Bloc Quebecois is playing political games with the national gun registry by working with the Harper Conservatives to prevent pro-registry Quebec witnesses from appearing before the Parliamentary Public Safety Committee next week, Liberal MPs said today. Here we have Gilles Duceppe backing the Conservatives under-handed attempts to remove the vast majority of those witnesses who wish to speak out in defence of the registry, said Liberal Public Safety Critic Mark Holland. That way, the bulk of witnesses they'll hear from are ardent gun advocates who want to defend the government's plan to scrap the registry. If we are to have a full and proper debate about this at Committee, we need to hear from all sides of this issue. But Mr. Duceppe would rather play political games and the result is that the predominant pro-registry voice in Quebec will not be sufficiently heard. In devising the witness list yesterday, the Bloc sided with the government to severely limit the number of groups representing victims of crime, lawyers, womens groups, police, suicide prevention experts, unionists and even public health representatives that will appear at the committee hearings, which begin in early May. The result is that the hearings may present the false appearance that the anti-registry voice is more prevalent than it is in reality, said Liberal Deputy House Leader Marlene Jennings. The Bloc's reasons for doing this are purely political and completely ignore the best interests of Quebecers. Westmount--Ville-Marie MP Marc Garneau said Quebecers want the rest of Canada to hear loud and clear that Quebec stands firmly in support of the registry. By getting as many hardcore gun supporters at the forefront, Mr. Duceppe and his MPs can travel the province and pretend to be different from the Conservatives by saying "These are the people that support this Conservative government, is this what you want?" It is highly deceiving. Mr. Duceppe is putting his political aspirations before the public interest. Quebecers should be outraged that Mr. Duceppe is putting his partisan ambitions ahead of the safety and security of Quebecers and Canadians, Mr. Garneau concluded. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:52:53 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Michael Ignatieff's last-ditch effort From: > Subject: EDITORIAL: Michael Ignatieff's last-ditch effort > > THE WINDSOR STAR - APRIL 28, 2010 > EDITORIAL: Long-gun registry > Michael Ignatieff's last-ditch effort http://www.windsorstar.com/opinion/editorials/Long+registry/2959193/story.html > > Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff has come up with what he calls "sensible" > changes that will preserve the controversial rifle and shotgun registry. > Hoeppner has said that Ignatieff's decision to force Liberal MPs to vote > against the bill shows that he is forcing MPs to "sell out" and ignore the > individuals who elected them. The lady's becoming a 'broken record'. Grow up! Ms. Hoeppner , , , 'What do you think my MP did to me (and 2.5 Mil other Canadians) when he sold us out on Harpers absolute, taped, (and then later, Flaherty's) promise to NOT tax Income Trusts. And then they *LIED* when they claimed it was to stop 'tax erosion'. Show me the evidence!! Another broken promise! Even our Garry B. promised something about how this gov't would operate based on evidence and sound rationale - not crass political considerations. It's not very long ago that I had exposes' circulating documenting AdScam and broken Liberal Promises. - ----- Stephen Harper Income Trust Promise > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9mibZYpVPY For a whole cornucopia: > http://trustbreaker.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #841 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)