Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, June 6 2010 Volume 13 : Number 894 In this issue: OFAH: Opposition members playing games with firearms bill CanWest - NDP gives its MPs licence to kill or save Registry RE: Which news service does Wendy use?? TPS: Loaded MAT 49 Submachine Gun Seized Re: Feds won't cut corners....- Cdn-Firearms Digest,> V13 #887" Re: Re:Urgent Alert-C-391 Ontario Licence Revenues Fake Muskoka costs real bucks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, June 5, 2010 9:53 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: OFAH: Opposition members playing games with firearms bill Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters - Jun 04, 2010 15:25 ET Opposition members playing games with firearms bill Committee motion a clear attempt to avoid free, democratic vote in House http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Opposition-members-playing-games-wit h-firearms-bill-1271499.htm O.F.A.H. MEDIA RELEASE--(Marketwire - June 4, 2010) - A procedural motion by Ajax-Pickering Liberal M.P. Mark Holland, supported by other committee members, including Windsor-Tecumseh NDP M.P. Joe Cormartin, is nothing less than a clear attempt to undermine a free and democratic vote on Bill C-391, an act to repeal the badly flawed long gun registry. "Mr. Holland's motion, which seeks support from the House of Commons to stop Bill C-391 from proceeding, is quite simply an attempt to achieve through the back door, what they haven't been able to do through a free and straightforward vote," said Greg Farrant, O.F.A.H. Manager of Government Relations & Communications. "Any suggestion that the vote will simply be a vote on a procedural motion is complete nonsense. A vote in favor of the motion is a vote against the bill itself, no matter how it is presented by Mr. Holland. If NDP Leader Jack Layton, who has thus far refused to whip the vote on the bill, agrees with the logic being put forward by opponents of the bill, and agrees to whip (force) his members to vote in support of the Committee's motion, it will kill the bill. For the 12 NDP members who voted in support of the bill at Second Reading, this will force them to vote against the wishes of their constituents. For taxpayers across Canada, the outdoor and farming communities, and First Nations who support C-391, the message will clearly be 'we don't care.' Every public opinion poll over the last four years has made it clear that a large majority of Canadians want the long gun registry scrapped. The system, which the Liberals promised would cost no more than $2 million, has now cost the taxpayers of Canada somewhere between $1 and $2 billion. Worse still, the Auditor General found that the Department could not demonstrate how the registry had saved lives or enhanced public safety, the sole reason for creating the registry in the first place. "Instead of focusing on criminals, who have already committed crimes using guns, and others whose behavior has deemed it necessary to prohibit them from owning firearms, this badly flawed system continues to focus on the wrong target and ignore the fact that in other jurisdictions, a high risk/prohibited firearms offenders registry, much like a sex offenders registry, has helped to reduce crime and threats to the public safety," said Farrant. "Ideology continues to trump logic and common sense. Instead of defending the indefensible, opposition members should be able to support Bill C-391 in a free and democratic vote, and support the use of money being wasted on the long gun registry for programs that target illegal firearms, smuggling, domestic violence, mental health and the need for more front line police officers on the streets of our communities." With over 100,000 members, subscribers and supporters, and 670 member clubs, the O.F.A.H. is the largest nonprofit fish and wildlife conservation-based organization in Ontario. For more information, visit www.ofah.org /For further information: Lezlie Goodwin Communications Coordinator 705-748-6324 ext 270 lezlie_goodwin@ofah.org/ For more information, please contact Greg Farrant, Manager, Government Relations and Communications, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters Primary Phone: 705-748-6324 ext. 236 Secondary Phone: 705-875-0274 E-mail: greg_farrant@ofah.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 08:55:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: CanWest - NDP gives its MPs licence to kill or save Registry http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/gives+licence+kill+save+registry/3114183/story.html NDP gives its MPs licence to kill, or save, gun registry BY JANICE TIBBETTS, CANWEST NEWS SERVICE JUNE 4, 2010 3:15 PM The fate of the gun registry rests with a dozen New Democrats, who are in the position to cast the deciding votes after the party signalled Friday it will not crack the whip by forcing the caucus to support the federal database. OTTAWA, The fate of the gun registry rests with a dozen New Democrats, who are in the position to cast the deciding votes after the party signalled Friday it will not crack the whip by forcing the caucus to support the federal database. A final vote on a Conservative backbencher's bill to scrap the registry is expected in the House of Commons as early as this month and New Democrat Joe Comartin said Friday that leader Jack Layton would maintain a long-standing party tradition of allowing MPs to vote with their conscience. Manitoba Tory MP Candice Hoeppner's bill passed a preliminary vote last fall, by a 164-137 margin, with support from all Conservatives, 12 New Democrats and eight Liberals. Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff has said he will force his rebels to toe the party line this time around, leaving the dissident New Democrats, comprising one third of the party caucus, to decide whether the gun registry dies. The Commons public safety committee voted Thursday, by a narrow margin, to recommend that the House kills the bill. Comartin said that Layton would never force a "whipped vote" on a private members' bill, allowing MPs the independence to vote as they wish. "I don't see him whipping the vote ever," said Comartin, the NDP justice critic, who was designated as party spokesman on the issue Friday. "We've never done that as a party, no leader before him has ever done it, and he's not looking to do it." Comartin acknowledged, however, that there is intense negotiating behind the scenes and that some New Democrats who supported Hoeppner last November are considering switching sides, because they are coming around to the position that the registry saves lives. However, they are conflicted because some promised their constituents they would vote to eliminate the database, Comartin said. He added that there are only a couple of New Democrats who have shut the door on changing their votes "because they sincerely believe the gun registry is useless." Mark Holland, the Liberal public safety critic, said Layton should force his MPs to vote to save the national registry. "It's all in the NDP's court and there's going to be a huge electoral consequence if he fails to show leadership on this issue," said Holland. "This is a matter of national importance, the policing community has spoken loud and clear about the need for this registry, and it's too major of an issue for him to allow it to be abandoned." The database, which requires registration of long guns, was created by the former Liberal government more than a decade ago as part of a gun-control package, crafted in the wake of the massacre of 14 women at Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique. Hoeppner urged the NDP and Liberals who supported her last time "to stick to their principles" or they could risk electoral defeat. Most of the eight Liberal opponents have publicly stated or hinted they will change their votes to side with Ignatieff, but a couple have maintained silence on their plans. Manitoba New Democrat Jim Maloway said Friday that he has opposed the registry through five elections as a provincial or federal candidate. "I haven't changed my mind on this issue for 15 years so I don't think 15 days is going to do much one way or the other," said Maloway, the only NDP opponent available for comment Friday. Maloway noted that gun owners also must be licensed, and he said the application process is so thorough that it should suffice, rather than requiring long-gun owners to register weapons. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:58:37 -0400 From: "Ed Sieb" Subject: RE: Which news service does Wendy use?? CNW - Canada News Wire. http://www.newswire.ca/en/ - -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca]On Behalf Of Rob Sciuk Sent: June 5, 2010 11:04 AM To: Canadian Firearms Digest Subject: Which news service does Wendy use?? Anyone know which news service that Wendy issues her "statistics" on? Is it a paid service?? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:04:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: TPS: Loaded MAT 49 Submachine Gun Seized http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/newsreleases/pdfs/19008.pdf Loaded MAT 49 Submachine Gun Seized One man and two Young Offenders face 45 charges in firearm/drug investigation, Loaded MAT 49 submachine gun and .380 semi-automatic handgun seized Toronto Police Service News Release Friday, June 4, 2010 - 5:37 PM 51 Division 416-808-5100 On Thursday, June 3, 2010, officers from 51 Division's Major Crime Unit executed a search warrant at 200 Wellesley Street East. It is alleged that: - - police seized a loaded MAT 49 submachine gun with ammunition, a loaded Smith and Wesson .380 semi-automatic handgun with ammunition and a quantity of marijuana and crack cocaine. Franklin Granados, 20, a 15-year-old boy and a 17-year-old boy, all of Toronto, have each been charged with: 1) Possession for the Purpose Cocaine, 2) Possession of Marijuana, 3) Possession of Proceeds of Crime, 4) Careless storage of a firearm, 5) Weapons Dangerous, 6) Unauthorized possession of a firearm, 7) Possession of a firearm knowing its possession is unauthorized, 8) Possession of firearm obtained by the commission of an offence, 9) Possession of a prohibited firearm with ammunition, 10) Careless storage of a firearm, 11) Weapons Dangerous, 12) Unauthorized possession of a firearm, 13) Possession of a firearm knowing its possession is unauthorized, 14) Possession of firearm obtained by the commission of an offence, 15) Possession of a prohibited firearm with ammunition. The names of the two other accused cannot be released under the Youth Criminal Justice Act. The man was scheduled to appear in court at Old City Hall, on Friday, June 4, 2010, room 101, at 10 a.m. The two Young Offenders were scheduled to appear in court at 311 Jarvis Street, on Friday, June 4, 2010, room 101, at 10 a.m. Constable Tony Vella, Public Information, for Detective Mike Balint, 51 Division ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FYI French MAT-49 submachine gun http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg44-e.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 15:50:53 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Feds won't cut corners....- Cdn-Firearms Digest,> V13 #887" Further to Larry and Mark: >> It would seem logical from a financial standpoint to have >> chosen to host the G8 and G20 meetings in a more remote, more >> cheaply defended location. e.i. a military base or say nearer >> to Gander airport in Newfoundland. > > I do not know how much it would cost to build suitable accommodation > facilities (including feeding, utilities, sewage, and garbage disposal) > for about 10000 people. That may be less than one billion dollars, or > it may not. > > It was the accommodation issue that forced moving the G20 portion of the > dual summit from Deerhurst to Toronto. I read that Obama's delegation will number 500 and as many as 20,000 delegates may attend when you total up all the entourages of 20 nations. One thought was that Steph should have taken the initiative and declared the G20 a 'poor boys' event because of the world-wide economic crisis with a max limit of 20 (or so) delegates per country. (Spending the tax payers dollars as tho they were his own). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 04:01:17 -0400 From: "enigma1" Subject: Re: Re:Urgent Alert-C-391 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Muir" To: Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:38 AM Subject: Re: Re:Urgent Alert-C-391 > So it is YOUR contention that instead of our situation improving after > C-391 it will get worse. Given your viewpoint is opposite to what most > gunowner groups (and members of this forum) pretend will happen next are > you therefore not as "divisive"? I think that you may have missed the big picture. I'm a pragmatist. Any sentient being who is able to keep abreast of current affairs understands that there are tenacious efforts within Canada and abroad to constrict and strangle the use and ownership of privately owned firearms. Even if C-391 were to pass - and it will be a close call now thanks to Iggy's whip - there is no guarantee that when the Liberals eventually unseat the Cons, in say one, two, three or more years, that they wont reinstate the registry by OIC and go one further by banning handguns altogether, as they have promised to do. Unless I misunderstood your position, and if so, I apologize, I believe that it was you who stated that you would contact your NDP MP and plead that he NOT vote in favour of C-391. Am I correct? If so, that make you rather "divisive". Most of "us" would rather have half a pie than none. > When you make up your mind on the direction we are going in let us know > please. My mind has never been clearer, my compass never more precise. I'll take whatever I can get for as long as I can get it. C-391 is the only logical way to go. Not a bad compromise since the 'Dark Forces' wont know how many or what types of non-restricted firearms I own. Sadly, licencing is here to stay no matter how repugnant the thought. Anyone hoping for a licencing reversal is completely delusional. (Tongue firmly placed in cheek) - Until the day ever comes when the Americans invade Canada for her rich water resources and hands out American citizenship in lieu, we will continue not to have the benefits and 'Rights' of the Second Amendment. That said, we do not, nor will we ever have the 'Right' to bear arm for our defence, no matter what was written in Britain over two hundred and fifty years ago. The SCC has been very clear on that. It's politically dead. Get over it. > I have retained the same position as ALL the other gun owners did at the > Fed Ups. They have created the divisions by stumbling backwards when push > came to shove. Does that mean that the firearms community has moved forward and embraced practicality whilst you have remained rigid and inflexable with your 'all or nothing' mentality? > You suggest that to not 'exacerbate and expedite that end" that is is > better to die a death of a thousand cuts rather than stand up and face > that end. Crawling got us here, I respectfully suggest that to die > standing up is preferable. "Death by a thousand cuts", as you so succinctly put it, started with the introduction of the FAC (Actually it started with handgun registration in the thirties but that was w-a-y before my time). The rest is history. "Die standing up"? Are you serious? Are we at war with a foreign power? In my opinion, such dangerous rhetoric undermines the legitimate efforts of countless Canadian sport shooters who work tirelessly to stem the erosion of what few remaining firearm 'privileges' we still possess. Post Script: Al, I want to make one clear, important point. I understand that you have been a long time contributor to the CFD and you have made some very interesting and pursuasive arguments. It is apparent that we don't agree on all the issues nor the appropriate directions available to us. Regardless of our differences, what is fundamentally vital is that we continue to champion for our shooting sport in the manner that we feel appropriate. All roads lead to Rome. Best Regards > Al > > >> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 00:53:19 -0400 >> From: "enigma1" >> Subject: Re: Re:Urgent Alert - C-391 >> >> To: Al and any like-minded firearm owner. >> >> The future of firearm ownership in Canada is bleak. I have predicted that >> over the next decade or so, various governments will undoubtedly fall >> prey >> to the urges of political expediency in order to garner urban votes by >> visiting more and more draconian limitations on lawful firearm ownership. >> >> That said, it is also my profound opinion that individuals such as >> yourself, by your contributions to the divisiveness within the firearm >> community will only serve to exacerbate and expedite that end. >> >> United we stand......divided we fall. When will we ever learn? >> >> >> - ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Al Muir" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:32 PM >> Subject: Re:Urgent Alert - C-391 >> >>>> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:43:23 -0400 >>>> From: "Larry Whitmore" >>>> Subject: Urgent Alert - C-391 >>>> >>>> June 2, 2010 >>>> >>>> URGENT COMMUNICATION TO ALL CSSA MEMBERS >>>> >>>> Your action needed immediately! >>>> >>>> Dear Member, >>>> >>>> Liberal M.P. Mark Holland (Ajax-Pickering) has presented a motion to >>>> return Private Members' Bill C-391 to the House of Commons with a >>>> recommendation to reject the legislation that would scrap the long-gun >>>> registry. >>>> >>> >>> Ok. I will write the NDP members you provided asking them to reject C- >>> 391. >>> >>> Al ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 02:59:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Singing Brakeman Subject: Ontario Licence Revenues ed/on said: > In Michigan I know for one, all license revenues are dedicated > BY LAW to conservation, > not so here; all license fees, users fees, etc go into > a general fund to be distributed as the government in > power sees fit. It used to be that way, years ago, and it worked pretty well when Queen's Park was willing to spend a dollar or two on natural resources. Not so anymore. It's another one of the OFAH's bright ideas backfiring. All licence revenues go into a specific fund, but under the McGuinty Liberals, that's about __all__ the funding the MNR is getting. CO's had bake sales a few years ago to raise money to put gas in their trucks. McGuinty also continues to appoint well-intentioned rookie cabinet members to be the Natural Resources minister. Couple that with gutting the MNR's mandate, and you have a withered husk of what used to be a fine organization. Local lake and watershed stewardship councils have tried to help with intelligent studies, built with a consensus of users, but Queen's Park ignores them. In northern Ontario, pretty soon the only crown presence will be the OPP blackshirts. Brian ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 10:26:16 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Fake Muskoka costs real bucks [What goes around - comes around. For years we've busted the Libs over Adscam and their $ Billion dollar Boondoggle. All the insults - spend like a drunken sailor; tax and spend liberals, etc. have come home to roost as the new Imperial Order takes root in Ottawa. An ole Bud from Baysville (Clements owns cottage there) tells me that Min. Tony Clements, dark-rimmed bottler opener glasses, thick lips, goes about the riding in disguise to escape personal insults hurled his way over unbridled gov't spending]. Fake Muskoka costs real bucks Plan to take the great outdoors indoors for global media more than a little loony By GREG WESTON, QMI Agency http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/greg_weston/2010/06/04/14264506.html Canadian and international journalists covering the G8 summit in Muskoka later this month will be able to file their reports from the leisurely comfort of a cottage dock, their feet dangling in the water, surrounded by the stunning sights and sounds of the fabled Ontario resort country three hours north of Toronto. The only catch is they won’t be anywhere near Muskoka. Instead, the federal government is shelling out millions of dollars to re-create cottage country — complete with a small lake — inside a Toronto convention facility that will warehouse most of the media during the three-day windfest. Your tax dollars at work. It is all another stunning achievement by organizers of the great Canadian summits of squander, three days of hot air and tear gas that will cost taxpayers an estimated $1.2 billion and counting. Recession? What recession? The head of the Muskoka tourism agency, Mike Lawley, cannot contain his enthusiasm for the great outdoors being built indoors with federal tax dollars. Lawley describes the planned decor as a sweeping dock surrounded by a “very large water feature” complete with canoes, all facing a big-screen TV the size of a stadium jumbotron creating the sights and sounds of cottage country. Journalists will be able to lounge in comfy Muskoka chairs on what is likely the only cottage dock in existence with bar service and high-speed Internet connections. The loopy lake project is only part of a bigger prop called “The Canadian Corridor” being constructed inside the temporary media centre. Foreign Affairs describes it all as “experiential and will provide the media with compelling stories, images and ideas that could form the basis of published and broadcast works.” Think: Drunk reporter falling in fake lake. Foreign Affairs estimates the cost for the project will be $1.9 million, including draining the lake and dismantling the whole thing after three days. At least, that’s the bill so far. Government documents show that just last month, the absolutely outside cost was supposed to be $1.5 million — an increase of almost 25% in 30 days. At that rate, the public tab for plugging arguably the richest resort region in the nation will blow past $3 million like a blackfly in a hurricane. That’s just the beginning. We have it on good authority that the usually hum-drum swag bags for media will include brand new “special summit edition” BlackBerrys preloaded with promotional stuff about Muskoka. Since most international reporters won’t get within 200 km of Muskoka while they are here, Canadian taxpayers will also be forking out a small fortune in post-summit advertising campaigns aimed at potential tourists in the U.K., Germany, China, and U.S. border states. Ka-ching. Ka-ching. The worst of it is none of this had to happen. After spending $23 million on a media centre in Huntsville where the G8 leaders will actually be meeting, the feds decided six months ago to keep most of the journalists three hours away in Toronto. Needless to say, the decision did not sit well with the local tourism folks. It also made life politically awkward for Muskoka-area MP Tony Clement. Known affectionately as Uncle Tony for his political largesse with other people’s money, Clement has spent the past two years wallpapering his riding in $50 million of “summit heritage funds” for projects ostensibly to wow the visiting world media in the hopes of promoting future tourism. But no media. No wow. Lucky for everyone but taxpayers, Clement is also the federal industry minister responsible for a large federal slush fund called Investment Canada. And apparently there is nothing Uncle Tony and Investment Canada can’t solve for the good voters of his riding. If the media couldn’t go to Muskoka, why not bring cottage country to the media stuck in Toronto, eh? Investment Canada to the rescue, indoor lake and all. The good news is that in the likely event the actual summit meetings produce zero of value, tourism officials say bored reporters will be able to sit on the dock and watch FIFA soccer on the big screen. If nothing else, the world will at least come to understand that not all the loons in this country are birds. - -- A transplanted Torontonian, at Harper's request over the wishes of the local Riding Assoc., Tony has spent almost his entire working life in politics. Clement was born Tony Panayi in Manchester, England to a Greek Cypriot father and Canadian mother. He emigrated to Canada in childhood with his mother and later adopted his last name from his stepfather, Ontario politician John Clement.[2] (Sound familiar)? He's noted as a 'heavy' thinker. He first attracted the attention of the media in 1985 when he created a new society to invite the Ambassador of South Africa, Glen Babb, to speak at the University of Toronto after the International Law Society had withdrawn an invitation as too controversial because of apartheid.[3] The law school's dean, J.S.R. Pritchard, disagreed with the invitation saying of Babb, "He is the official spokesman or representative of a grotesque regime built on violence and racism. In extending an invitation the student group runs the risk of providing symbolic legitimacy to the ambassador and to the regime he represents."[3] Clement was also an admirer of US President Ronald Reagan and of Margaret Thatcher's government in the United Kingdom.[4] > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Clement Tony's one of the 'gang of three' transplants from Mike Harris's Ontario experiment to now hold the heavy reins of power in Ottawa along with John Baird and Jim Flaherty. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #894 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)