Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, June 18 2010 Volume 13 : Number 915 In this issue: Bill C-391/Don't know exactly where you stand on this issue While I don't know exactly where you stand on this issue RE: Listing victims of the Firearms Act - CFD V13 #913 Feds quick to respond to wedge issue that fits narrow agenda*NFR* Fw: C-391 thread "BBC UK: Grandmother jailed-5 years over WWII 'family heirloom'.." Re: Feds quick to respond to wedge issue that fits ... Re: "Grandmother jailed-5 years over WWII 'family heirloom'.." Crude-Sucking Barges Stopped by Coast Guard *NFR* Tory Dissent continues in 'strange new political world' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:42:32 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Bill C-391/Don't know exactly where you stand on this issue Re: Bill C-391/Don't know exactly where you stand on this issue Wednesday, June 16, 2010 Dear Mr. Hudson, Last week, I sent you an email asking you for your opinion on how we should handle the upcoming battle to scrap the expensive and ineffective long-gun registry. ... . While I don't know exactly where you stand on this issue, ... . ... . Sincerely, Irving Gerstein, C.M., O.Ont. Chair, Conservative Fund Canada Mr. Gerstein has the temerity to write, "I don't know exactly where you stand on this issue." see: http://www.cufoa.ca/ The Conservatives' Bill S-5, C-21, C-24, and C-301 are worse than the Liberals' Bill C-68: All four perpetuate licensing This is symptomatic of the problem with the CPC. They obviously do NOT read their mail. Sincerely, Edward B. Hudson DVM, MS Secretary Canadian Unlicensed Firearms Owners Association Association canadienne des propriétaires d'armes san permis 402 Skeena Crt. Saskatoon Saskatchewan S7K 4H2 (306) 242-2379 (306) 230-8929 edwardhudson@shaw.ca www.cufoa.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:34:23 +0000 From: Trigger Mortis Subject: While I don't know exactly where you stand on this issue >> "While I don't know exactly where you stand on this issue" I laughed when I read that one. I don't know anyone who has made their position more clear than Mr. Hudson. Maybe you should get tattoos. Alan Harper alan__harper@hotmail.com SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* > From: edwardhudson@shaw.ca > To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: Bill C-391/Don't know exactly where you stand on this issue > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:42:32 -0600 > > Re: Bill C-391/Don't know exactly where you stand on this issue > > Wednesday, June 16, 2010 > > Dear Mr. Hudson, > > Last week, I sent you an email asking you for your opinion on how we > should handle the upcoming battle to scrap the expensive and ineffective > long-gun registry. > ... . > While I don't know exactly where you stand on this issue, ... . > ... . > Sincerely, > > Irving Gerstein, C.M., O.Ont. > Chair, Conservative Fund Canada > > > Mr. Gerstein has the temerity to write, "I don't know exactly where > you stand on this issue." > > see: http://www.cufoa.ca/ > > The Conservatives' Bill S-5, C-21, C-24, and C-301 are worse than the > Liberals' Bill C-68: > > All four perpetuate licensing > > This is symptomatic of the problem with the CPC. > > They obviously do NOT read their mail. > > Sincerely, > > Edward B. Hudson DVM, MS > Secretary > > Canadian Unlicensed Firearms Owners Association > Association canadienne des propriétaires d'armes san permis > 402 Skeena Crt. Saskatoon > Saskatchewan S7K 4H2 > (306) 242-2379 (306) 230-8929 > edwardhudson@shaw.ca > www.cufoa.ca > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:45:32 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: RE: Listing victims of the Firearms Act - CFD V13 #913 Ditto:::: Tony commenting on Larry: > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:56:50 -0400 > From: TONY KATZ > Subject: RE: Listing victims of the Firearms Act - CFD V13 #913 > > This is a cogent and well reasoned and well written impact statement > Larry and should be sent to some media outlets and politicians. > >> > From: ljfillo@shaw.ca >> > Subject: Re: Listing victims of the Firearms Act - CFD V13 #913 >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:44:56 -0600 >> > To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca >> > >> > While several millions of firearms owners were most directly >> > affected, in practice other Canadians have lost and suffered it's >> > effects, too: >> > >> > >> > 1. Check into the number of auto/deer collisions, which has risen. >> > This includes the number of people seriously injured or killed. Most >> > of them aren't hunters but were, in the past, protected by widespread >> > firearms ownership and hunting. >> > >> > >> > 2. The number of people mauled or killed by wild predators is up >> > noticeably. Many of them are not firearms owners but in the past would >> > have been and would not have suffered such attacks, or again were >> > protected by others due to widespread firearms ownership and hunting. >> > And: > 6. The typical firearms owner profile is that of an adult male, often >> middle-aged or older who was more law abiding than the general >> population, and formerly quite supportive of the police and law >> enforcement efforts. >> >> Over the past twenty years of gun control the status of police officers >> has dropped markedly and they receive abuse like never before from >> criminals and the politically correct. >> >> Their largest public support group is now mostly silent having strong, >> but mixed feelings knowing that, they too, must now fear the police. I had a lot of positive contact with the police via my employment and volunteer search and rescue activity. But it was I who penned the don't help a cop theme several years ago - due to their double cross on the FA. Wasn't the 'loss of support' for police highlighted in a presentation to the SECU over C-391? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:42:47 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Feds quick to respond to wedge issue that fits narrow agenda*NFR* MPs reach deal to deny Homolka pardon By BRYN WEESE, Parliamentary Bureau > http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/06/16/14411381.html OTTAWA — Karla Homolka can apply for — but will be denied — a pardon this summer because of frantic last-minute negotiations by all four federal parties to block her application. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews announced the deal late Wednesday, saying parts of the government's bill to reform the pardon system have been hived off to be voted on Thursday, the last day of Parliament before the summer recess. [[What the heck difference does it make. . . Homolka can never hide, with or without a pardon. Errrrrrrrrr, how about CCSVI therapy for thousands of distressed Canadians. How many MS patients could be treated for the cost for housing a single fed prisoner]]. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:53:47 -0400 From: "enigma1" Subject: Fw: C-391 thread - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Hudson" To: "enigma1" Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:57 PM Subject: Re: C-391 thread > Re: C-391 thread > > Dear Enigma1, > > Re: C-391 thread > > The Moderator has lifted his two-day suspension of the C-391 thread. > > I suggest you post your very well-worded reply to me on the Digest so > that as I reply to you I may reply to "All". > > Sincerely, > > Ed. (Eduardo) > > On 17-Jun-10, at 12:46 AM, enigma1 wrote: > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Hudson" >> To: "enigma1" >> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 10:28 AM >> Subject: Re: C-391 thread >> >> >> >>> i.e., "Let's put this unpleasant experience behind us and move on. Is >>> that acceptable?" >> >>> Yes, that is acceptable. >> >> Thank you . >> >>> But to move on effectively we need to understand the cause of our >>> contention. >>> As I view the situation, >>> the gist of our disagreement concerns the importance of Bill C-391, >>> correct? >> >> That is correct. >> >>> CUFOA's position - which is also Al's position & my position - is >>> that >>> C-391 is ALL that the Conservatives are planning to do for firearms >>> owners. >>> We base that conclusion on several observed facts >>> (which I will be glad to enumerate if you would like). >>> >>> By your "frosty day in hell" comment concerning the probable >>> actions of >>> Mr. Harper you seem to agree with this assessment. >> >> Yes and no. I'm sorry to be so ambiguous. I don't mean to frustrate >> you. >> There are many components to this issue. I don't see it as black and >> white >> but many shades of possible grey. In a way, I see it as being as >> problematic >> as trying to predict where a certain species will evolve to in the >> future. >> There are too many variables. >> >>> Therefore we - CUFOA - see Bill C-391 as 'a fatal, final step' rather >>> than 'a good first step'. >>> >>> If C-391 is all the Conservatives are going to do, firearms >>> owners have >>> been betrayed. >> >> I hope that within the limited space and time available to me that I >> may >> adequately explain my thoughts and reasoning. >> >> I cannot blame the Cons for any sort of betrayal. If anything, that >> statement belongs squarely at the feet of the Liberals. Bill C-68 >> is the Genesis of our travails and possibly, eventual undoing. The >> Liberals >> will always represent the concerns of the urban elite only and play >> to it >> so religiously as to ensure their continued governance. The Liberals >> will never concede so much as one inch of the field to our >> advantage. They represent the antithesis to any type of >> firearm ownership. At this point I'm tempted to delve into greater >> detail as to why >> this has happened. However, I would be digressing on a point that has >> probably many various and valid theories from within your own >> organization. >> >> Mr.Harper began with a clean slate in 2006 with the promise to rid >> the yoke >> of Bill C-68 from the long suffering RFC. This was to be replaced with >> something more sanitized and palatable to the stakeholders. However, >> to be >> fair, Mr. Harper inherited a populous that had been weaned on Liberal >> platitudes and philosophies for decades. It's not as if he could >> just turn on a >> magical switch and voila! Every snobbish leftist urbanite suddenly >> sees the folly of >> their convictions. No. It's not that easy. He had to tiptoe and >> perform a >> balancing act of superhuman proportions. >> >> On a practical level the name of the game is "stay in power...at all >> cost". >> If he wanted to gain a majority without effort, in 2008, all that he >> had to >> do was publicly abandon his conservative dogmas and proclaim that >> the CPC >> would adopt a more Liberal type party platform. This brings me back to >> Mr.Harper's fortunate lack of political vertigo. He had to be >> everything to everyone. >> Juggling ten bowling pins on a unicycle while reciting Shakespeare. >> If he >> was seen to have a "secret agenda" by playing openly to Western >> values over gun >> control, the din from the urban elitist would have been deafening >> and his >> premature political death guaranteed. What a predicament. So in >> order to >> save his political skin he allows a private members bill to breathe >> a life of >> it's own. Hence, C-391. >> >> { Now that Parliament is set to retire for the summer without >> finalizing C-391 , let us double our efforts over the next several >> weeks to put those key opposition members on notice that we expect >> their continued support of the Bill come September. It must be made >> clear that to do otherwise, would be to invite our wrath at the >> voting booth.} >> >> It took two decades for firearm owners to be vasectomized and it's >> going to >> take several more years and a Conservative majority to start to >> untie the >> tubes. The Liberals just want to permanently neuter us. >> >> If Mr. Harper ventures no further than C-391 and we are no longer >> obligated to register our >> guns --IN ANY FORM -- I see that as a plus. because it would then be >> very >> difficult for the Liberals to later take away from us what they >> don't know we have. >> That's obviously a very important point. >> >> If Steve ever gets his elusive majority, I would expect from the >> CPC and further changes to the Act. However, I would expect those >> changes to come slowly by OIC and to be tempered with caution as to >> not alarm the hoplophobic nature of the brainwashed leftist sheeple. >> >> Should he be able to give us more, such as 'Certification' in lieu >> of the obnoxious >> licencing system, that would be occasion to break out the Champagne >> glasses, but sadly, I wouldn't hold my breath. I fear that we will >> continue to be vexed by its presence. >> >> As I stated before, I'm a pragmatist. I hope that I've been able to >> shed light on some of my thoughts and opinions without offending >> you. While I may not agree that all your methods and actions are >> prudent, I certainly approve of your spirit and wish you and your >> members every success possible. >> >> >> >>> Ed. >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, June 17, 2010 10:49 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: "BBC UK: Grandmother jailed-5 years over WWII 'family heirloom'.." Subject: "BBC NEWS: Grandmother jailed for 5 years over WWII 'family heirloom' pistol" BBC NEWS - JUNE 16, 2010 Grandmother jailed over WWII 'family heirloom' pistol http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/10335003.stm A grandmother has been jailed for five years for possessing a "family heirloom" World War II pistol. Gail Cochrane, 53, had kept the gun for 29 years following the death of her father, who had been in the Royal Navy. Police found the weapon, a Browning self-loading pistol, during a search of her home in Dundee while looking for her son. She admitted illegal possession of the firearm, an offence with a minimum five-year jail term under Scots law. Cochrane told the High Court in Edinburgh that she had never contemplated she might be committing a crime by keeping the gun or that she might need to get a licence for the weapon. She said: "I thought it was just a war trophy." Defence solicitor advocate Jack Brown argued that the circumstances surrounding the case were exceptional and that it would be "draconian, unjust and disproportionate" to jail the grandmother-of-six. Prohibited weapon However, Judge Lady Smith said: "I am not satisfied that a reasonable explanation has been put forward for not handing this gun into the authorities throughout the 29-year period she says she has had it in her possession." The judge said she was unable to find herself satisfied that this was one of the rare cases in which exceptional circumstances existed. She said: "The result is I have no alternative but to sentence Mrs Cochrane to a period of five years." The case began after police arrived at the 53-year-old's home on 17 June 2009 with an arrest warrant for her son who had failed to turn up for a court appearance. He was not at the flat, but the 80-year-old pistol was found underneath a mattress in her bedroom. When interviewed, Cochrane told police that the gun had previously belonged to her father and that she had kept it when he died. She said she believed it was a real gun, but had no ammunition for it. The weapon was sent for examination by firearms experts who concluded that it was a Czech-made pistol dating back to about 1927. Cochrane admitted having the 7.65 millimetre Browning self-loading pistol at her home without a firearms certificate and possessing the prohibited weapon without the authority of the Secretary of State or Scottish ministers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 07:57:28 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Feds quick to respond to wedge issue that fits ... narrow agenda *NFR* WHATS ccsvi ???.............ed/on [Mod Note: Chronic cerebro-spinal venous insufficiency. Basically, your veins in the neck are unable to take all of the blood that is in your brain away from it, and causes the recirculation of some of that blood. Research is starting to show that this leaves a number of unwanted substances floating around your brain causing problems. MS is one of the possible results. Can be fixed with a simple day surgery (replace the vein in your neck) and might cure MS. Currently not a "valid procedure" in Canada/US. BUZ] - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Jasper" To: "Canadian Firearms Digest" Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:42 PM Subject: Feds quick to respond to wedge issue that fits narrow agenda*NFR* > MPs reach deal to deny Homolka pardon > > By BRYN WEESE, Parliamentary Bureau > >> http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/06/16/14411381.html > > OTTAWA - Karla Homolka can apply for - but will be denied - a pardon > this summer because of frantic last-minute negotiations by all four > federal parties to block her application. > > Public Safety Minister Vic Toews announced the deal late Wednesday, > saying parts of the government's bill to reform the pardon system have > been hived off to be voted on Thursday, the last day of Parliament > before the summer recess. > > > [[What the heck difference does it make. . . Homolka can never hide, > with or without a pardon. Errrrrrrrrr, how about CCSVI therapy for > thousands of distressed Canadians. How many MS patients could be treated > for the cost for housing a single fed prisoner]]. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 08:10:12 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: "Grandmother jailed-5 years over WWII 'family heirloom'.." Whatever happened to "intent " to commit a crime ?before you could be charged and sentenced ?There obviuosly was NO intent here ? ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:49 PM Subject: "BBC UK: Grandmother jailed-5 years over WWII 'family heirloom'.." > Subject: "BBC NEWS: Grandmother jailed for 5 years over WWII 'family > heirloom' pistol" > > BBC NEWS - JUNE 16, 2010 > > Grandmother jailed over WWII 'family heirloom' pistol > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/10335003.stm > > A grandmother has been jailed for five years for possessing a "family > heirloom" World War II pistol. Gail Cochrane, 53, had kept the gun for 29 > years following the death of her father, who had been in the Royal Navy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:44:34 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Crude-Sucking Barges Stopped by Coast Guard *NFR* http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindals-wishes-crude/story?id=10946379&page=1 BP Oil Spill: Against Gov. Jindal's Wishes, Crude- Sucking Barges Stopped by Coast Guard 59 Days Into Oil Crisis, Gulf Coast Governors Say Feds Are Failing Them By DAVID MUIR and BRADLEY BLACKBURN Eight days ago, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal ordered barges to begin vacuuming crude oil out of his state's oil-soaked waters. Today, against the governor's wishes, those barges sat idle, even as more oil flowed toward the Louisiana shore. "It's the most frustrating thing," the Republican governor said today in Buras, La. "Literally, yesterday morning we found out that they were halting all of these barges." Watch "World News" for David Muir's report from Louisiana tonight. Sixteen barges sat stationary today, although they were sucking up thousands of gallons of BP's oil as recently as Tuesday. Workers in hazmat suits and gas masks pumped the oil out of the Louisiana waters and into steel tanks. It was a homegrown idea that seemed to be effective at collecting the thick gunk. "These barges work. You've seen them work. You've seen them suck oil out of the water," said Jindal. Coast Guard Orders Barges to Stop So why stop now? "The Coast Guard came and shut them down," Jindal said. "You got men on the barges in the oil, and they have been told by the Coast Guard, 'Cease and desist. Stop sucking up that oil.'" A Coast Guard representative told ABC News today that it shares the same goal as the governor. "We are all in this together. The enemy is the oil," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Dan Lauer. But the Coast Guard ordered the stoppage because of reasons that Jindal found frustrating. The Coast Guard needed to confirm that there were fire extinguishers and life vests on board, and then it had trouble contacting the people who built the barges. Louisiana Governor Couldn't Overrule Coast Guard The governor said he didn't have the authority to overrule the Coast Guard's decision, though he said he tried to reach the White House to raise his concerns. "They promised us they were going to get it done as quickly as possible," he said. But "every time you talk to someone different at the Coast Guard, you get a different answer." After Jindal strenuously made his case, the barges finally got the go-ahead today to return to the Gulf and get back to work, after more than 24 hours of sitting idle. Fifty-nine days into the crisis, it still can be tough to figure out who is in charge in Louisiana, and the problem appears to be the same in other Gulf Coast states. In Alabama today, Gov. Bob Riley said that he's had problems with the Coast Guard, too. Along Gulf Coast, Governors Ask, 'Who's In Charge?' Riley, R-Ala., asked the Coast Guard to find ocean boom tall enough to handle strong waves and protect his shoreline. The Coast Guard went all the way to Bahrain to find it, but when it came time to deploy it? "It was picked up and moved to Louisiana," Riley said today. The governor said the problem is there's still no single person giving a "yes" or "no." While the Gulf Coast governors have developed plans with the Coast Guard's command center in the Gulf, things begin to shift when other agencies start weighing in, like the Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. "It's like this huge committee down there," Riley said, "and every decision that we try to implement, any one person on that committee has absolute veto power." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 09:22:18 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Tory Dissent continues in 'strange new political world' [Not the climate for 'my way or the highway' politicians]. Tory Dissent continues in 'strange new political world': Poll June 17, 2010 Jane Taber > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tory-descent-continues-in-strange-new-political-world-poll/article1607251/ The Harper Conservatives would lose 28 seats if an election were called today, holding on to 116 ridings and likely unable to sustain even a minority government, according to a new EKOS poll. Released Thursday morning, the poll does not give much hope to any of the parties, none of which would break through to form anything near a majority government or even a “modestly stable” minority government. “What a mess!” says pollster Frank Graves. “An increasingly muddled landscape has few points of clarity. Perhaps the only clear conclusion we can draw … is that Canadians have no party which would come even close to achieving a plausible mandate from an ever more disgruntled and fragmented electorate.” It comes as the House of Commons is to preparing to rise today for its summer break; all parties may need this break to recalibrate – a word used by Stephen Harper when he controversially prorogued Parliament last winter. This morning’s EKOS poll gives the Conservatives 30.5 per cent support from Canadians, compared to 26.3 per cent for the Liberals. The Tories have been sliding over the past few weeks, losing the 10-point lead they enjoyed over the Liberals not so long ago. The NDP, meanwhile, are at 17.4 per cent, compared to the Green Party at 12.3 per cent; the Bloc is at 10.5 per cent. “Their (the Harper Conservatives) current vote intention is the lowest since they took office and the leading direction of federal-government indicator is the lowest for any sitting Canadian government in the 11 years we have been tracking it,” says Mr. Graves. His poll shows that 36.6 per cent of Canadians believe the government is going in the right direction, compared to 51.5 per cent who say it is not. Even more tantalizing, perhaps, are his seat projections, based on calculations from this latest poll. Last week, Mr. Graves had the Tories losing 23 seats – mostly from Ontario and British Columbia – if an election were held. His numbers were based on his poll that showed the Tories with 31.4 per cent, compared to 26.8 per cent for the Liberals. In his latest poll, he has the Liberals winning 94 seats up from the 77 they currently own; the NDP would win 39 seats, which is an increase of three; the Bloc would see its fortunes rise from 48 to 56. Elizabeth May’s Green Party would win two seats, according to Mr. Graves’ calculations. There are 308 seats in the House of Commons. “So just as Canadians say they are tiring of minority rule, the prospects of any party achieving a majority, (let alone even a modestly stable minority), have all but vanished,” says Mr. Graves. “And to make this delicious irony even more discouraging, there is virtually nothing on the political event horizon to suggest that any of this is likely to change any time soon.” The EKOS poll of 2,013 Canadians was conducted between June 9 and June 15; it has a margin of error of plus or minus 2.18 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. A strange new political world Frank Graves has come up with a provocative merger scenario based on his latest numbers – a coalition between the Harper Conservatives and the Ignatieff Liberals. “Oscillating Conservative and Liberal majorities may have been the rule of the last century, but it appears we have entered a strange new political world,” says the EKOS pollster. Inevitably, the dismal poll results are provoking serious thinking about coalitions and mergers. And the political chatter of late has been about a merger on the left as a way of breaking the political gridlock that has no party being able to form a majority government. But Mr. Graves is thinking outside of the box, noting that the arithmetic in his poll shows that the Conservative and Liberal support – 56.8 per cent – is the same as that of the so-called traffic-light coalition of the red (Liberals), green (Green Party) and orange (NDP) – 56 per cent. “For those who see this as preposterous, the current coalition in the U.K. looks more ideologically congruent with this mixture (Conservatives and Liberal Democrats) than the more oft-discussed centre-left coalitions.” What is very clear, he believes, is that there will be a coalition of some sort – “an inevitable legacy of an electorate that is more fragmented than at any other period in Canadian political history,” he says. Mr. Graves says that the first-past-the-post system is now unworkable because the “old parties are incapable of creating stable constituencies.” “Boomers will lose their strangle-hold on power. Young voters are turning to new parties like the GP [Green Party]. Parliaments will be forced to become mosaics rather than monolithic, reflecting a more pluralistic and faster-changing society.” ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #915 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)