Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, July 11 2010 Volume 13 : Number 954 In this issue: Victoria Times-Colonist - Police arrest Saanich man after NRA - U.S. State Department Celebrates U.N. Gun Destruction Event [US] Less Murders, Violent Crime 15 Years after Concealed Carry Re: BBCNEWS: Police officers sold guns handed in for safe disposal Re:BBCNEWS: Police officers sold guns handed in for safe disposal Re: Calgary Herald - More cops results in less crime: report re: Boating laws Re:"Cops had hands cuffed" Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #953 LETTER: Gun-registry argument flawed "Edm area RCMP constable charged with second degree murder" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:00:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Victoria Times-Colonist - Police arrest Saanich man after backyard target practice with replica assault rifle To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Police+arrest+Saanich+after+backyard+target+practice+with+replica+assault+rifle/3257318/story.html#ixzz0tDLGi3If Police arrest Saanich man after backyard target practice with replica assault rifle By Ian Shelton, timescolonist.com July 9, 2010 12:02 PM Victoria, B.C. - An afternoon of backyard target practice with a replica rifle landed a Saanich man in jail on Wednesday. Saanich police responded to a caller who saw men firing off rounds from what appeared to be an assault rifle at about 4 p.m. When they arrived to the house in 4000-block of Gerard Pl., near Mackenzie Avenue and Glanford Avenue, officers saw the man with the weapon, which looked real, Saanich police spokesman Sgt. Dean Jantzen said today. The gun's metallic body, sight and light gave it the appearance of the police's own Heckler and Koch G-36 assault rifle. Even the clear magazine casing was full of fake brass bullets. "Those might be some of the things I would look for if I were to try and make the instantaneous decision whether this is real or not," Jantzen said. "Quite rightly, our officers approached with caution and with their firearms, their real firearms, drawn," he added. Police took the man into custody without further incident and seized several more rifles of similar quality. No charges have been laid but police continue to investigate. Jantzen said replica weapons put officers in a difficult position. "We're asked to make these split-second decisions and you can see how one might be easily fooled." Many police organizations, including the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, have called for laws restricting replica guns for the safety and the public and police. letters@tc.canwest.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:04:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: NRA - U.S. State Department Celebrates U.N. Gun Destruction Event http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=14012 U.S. State Department Celebrates U.N. Gun Destruction Event Friday, July 09, 2010 Fairfax, Va. – Today, the U.S. State Department announced its support for the United Nations' “International Small Arms Destruction Day.” The State Department, under the leadership of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, calls this ridiculous event part of the United States’ ongoing efforts to support the “rule of law around the world” and boasts of spending more than $130 million to destroy “1.4 million small arms and light weapons.” A press release from the State Department says this money was spent at the behest of the anti-gun United Nations to reduce the impact of “illicit flows of small arms and light weapons.” Chris W. Cox, NRA chief lobbyist said, "The U.N. has long had an agenda of undermining our Second Amendment freedoms by ending all private ownership of firearms by law-abiding Americans. Now, our State Department is joining the effort. The Obama Administration's embrace of this offensive 'celebration' and the UN’s 'Programme of Action on the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects' -- a program that has sought to disarm Americans and undermine the United States Constitution -- is an affront to the 80 million law-abiding gun owners in our country.” - -- NRA - ILA -- Established in 1871, the National Rifle Association is America’s oldest civil rights and sportsmen's group. Four million members strong, NRA continues its mission to uphold Second Amendment rights and to advocate enforcement of existing laws against violent offenders to reduce crime. The Association remains the nation's leader in firearm education and training for law-abiding gun owners, law enforcement and the military. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:20:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [US] Less Murders, Violent Crime 15 Years after Concealed Carry http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/texas/100707-concealed-carry-effects Less Murders, Violent Crime 15 Years after Concealed Carry Updated: Wednesday, 07 Jul 2010, 12:23 PM CDT GREG GROOGAN Reporter HOUSTON - In America, there is a firearm for every man, woman and child in the nation and probably a few to spare. That is a fact that has never bothered a majority of folks in Texas. But what did bother many in Houston during the crime-ridden 1980s and early 1990s were the strict state restrictions on when, where and how a citizen could carry a handgun for personal protection. "Do you expect an innocent person to stand there and say, 'shoot me! shoot me!'," asked then-State Representative Ron Wilson, on the the floor of the Texas House back in 1995. Wilson, an urban, African American Democrat from Houston led what became a crusade at the state capitol to allow qualified Texans to carry concealed weapons legally. In Austin, emotions have rarely run higher. "People in this state face death every day and because they are law abiding they can't protect themselves," argued an impassioned Wilson. Opponents predicted an escalation of violence with every day disputes settled with gunfights in the street. "Will your amendment train people how to treat shock when somebody blows somebody's guts out?," asked then-State Senator Gonzalo Barrientos, a Democrat from Austin. "I think we are creating a monster!," warned then-State Representative Paul Moreno, an El Paso Democrat. In 1995, then-Governor George W. Bush eventually signed a law which gave citizens with training and a clean record the right to carry a concealed handgun in public. "We are in the days of the wild wild west and this will presumably take us out," said Bush. A decade and a half later roughly 400,000 Texans have concealed carry permits. What they do not have is the rapidly-rising violent crime rate that preceded passage of the law. Since 1994, the amount of murders and other violent crimes in Texas has actually decreased, despite the fact that there are six million more people living in the state now than there were 15 years ago. In 1994, there were 129,838 violent crimes reported in the state with 2,022 murders. In 2008, the total amount of violent crimes had fallen to 123,564 with 1,374 homicides. Some attribute the decreased violent crime to a better economy, more prisons, less crack cocaine addiction and improved policing, but Republican State Senator Dan Patrick of Houston believes that concealed carry deserves a solid share of the credit. "When citizens are armed, crime goes down," says Patrick. Those who claim opposition to gun control can be easily lumped into racial, political and gender groups, probably never met State Representative Senfronia Thompson. "I wanted to feel at least I had a fighting chance and have a weapon on hand," says Thompson. As an inner city Democrat, she supported concealed carry in 1995 and believes it has proven its worth as a deterrent. "We can't measure how many people made the decision not to commit a crime, but I would imagine it's a significant number of people," said Thompson. That is why supporters of the law believe those who carry may actually be protecting those who do not. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:53:19 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: BBCNEWS: Police officers sold guns handed in for safe disposal thats what i`ve always said the guns go to cops that are slated for disposal. ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:32 AM Subject: BBC NEWS: Police officers sold guns handed in for safe disposal > BBC NEWS - JULY 10, 2010 > Suspended terms for gun sale Durham Police officers > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/wear/10581584.stm > > Two Durham police officers who sold on guns which had been handed in to > the force for safe disposal have been given suspended prison sentences. > > Pc Maurice Allen, 47, and Pc Damien Cobain, 41, had admitted misconduct. > The pair were arrested in February 2009 when officers investigating a > gun theft were told it had been bought from police. > > Allen was sentenced to 51 weeks, which was suspended for two years, and > Cobain to 40 weeks, suspended for 18 months. > > 'Lax' measures > > The pair were suspended from the force when the investigations began. It > was conducted by Durham Police's professional standards department under > the supervision of the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC). > Allen, of Houghton le Spring, had nearly 29 years' police service, while > Cobain, of Sunderland, had been with the force for eight years. > > In sentencing the pair, the judge at Newcastle Crown Court criticised the > arrangements for gun registration that had been in place at Durham > Constabulary. He described them as "extremely lax, if not chaotic". > > Durham Police said it had since tightened up procedures. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 15:46:02 -0700 From: Bob Subject: Re:BBCNEWS: Police officers sold guns handed in for safe disposal On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:32:06 -0600 (CST), you wrote: |>------------------------------ |> |>Date: Sat, July 10, 2010 10:32 am |>From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" |>Subject: BBC NEWS: Police officers sold guns handed in for safe disposal |> |>BBC NEWS - JULY 10, 2010 |>Suspended terms for gun sale Durham Police officers |>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/wear/10581584.stm |> |>Two Durham police officers who sold on guns which had been handed in to |>the force for safe disposal have been given suspended prison sentences. |>Pc Maurice Allen, 47, and Pc Damien Cobain, 41, had admitted misconduct. |>The pair were arrested in February 2009 when officers investigating a |>gun theft were told it had been bought from police. |> |>Allen was sentenced to 51 weeks, which was suspended for two years, and |>Cobain to 40 weeks, suspended for 18 months. |> Where are the other 1,000's of cases like these, it's a hard to catch snake, even with an (Independent Police Complaints Commission) who may be vulnerable at some pint in time when there is no poletzi to bring to justice. The practice of non destruction of their gun booty is a well known exposed facet to what the poelease really are.....stuff donated to the para/military is a good trade off for the weapons the military give the poelease to circumvent the "posse comitatus act" they have to abide by at the political levels. It's good to have an (Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).) to balance out the "goody goody 2 shoes act" the polease are pumping out to the general media at our expense. |>'Lax' measures No kidding. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:07:42 -0700 From: Bob Subject: Re: Calgary Herald - More cops results in less crime: report Although it may should be true that (more cops results in less crime), there are millions of plea bargainers out there that can completely replace the police in no time at all. The polease are but social work junkies that take notes or are military drop outs that can't face the real world themselves, so they enlist in paramilitary functions for their beer/dope money. Cops are criminals within their environment (as well as to ours) to the point that the trillions of policies, codes, rules, suggestions, etc., are policed to the point that standing in a corner is all that is legally allowed. To wit, something like the movie "THX 1138" comes to mind and since most of us are way over 30 years old, "Logan's Run" is still applied in some places. A lot of these stats are fudged, and mean nothing depending on weather, area, education, financial situations, varies all the time and police want the credit in the succumbing criminal events of a specific area. Loss of civilian crime is quite well noted when there are 2 cops per civilian..... Bob On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:32:06 -0600 (CST), you wrote: |>------------------------------ |> |>Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 11:33:31 -0700 (PDT) |>From: Bruce Mills |>Subject: Calgary Herald - More cops results in less crime: report |> |>http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2010/07/09/14663646.html |> |>More cops results in less crime: report |> |>By NADIA MOHARIB, Calgary Sun |>Last Updated: July 9, 2010 1:51pm |> |>Police statistics show what they have been claiming for some time, that |>putting additional officers to work works well. |> |>The recent numbers, offering a snapshot between 2008 and 2009, show gang |>homicides down from 15 to 7, or a reduction of 53%, shooting incidents |>dropping by 52%, the homicide clearance rate up to 87% from 53% and a |>32% reduction in auto thefts. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:30:24 -0600 (MDT) From: birch_as_in_tree@telus.net Subject: re: Boating laws If the mere passage of laws was sufficient to prevent crime and stupid behavior, we'd have a very safe society. We've got tens of thousands on the books. Remember what Ayn Rand said about laws? And God was content with 10. I'm sure that the operation of a power boat by an impaired operator is already covered. New laws won't prevent drunk boat drivers any more than it deters drunk car drivers. Do gun laws prevent gun crime? The houseboat industry caters to the party crowd. Likewise the renters of SeaDoos and jet boats. Summer boating and beer are partners. Watch what goes onboard first at any boat launch or marina. Now that I'm down on the coast at the cancer clinic, I daily see runners and cyclists wearing headphones. This means they are likely to miss warning signals that they are about to be flattened by a car. How about laws to protect them? Who's going to enforce them? What's a meaningful penalty or fine? I was nearly shmucked twice today at intersections by drivers going thru' late lights. That's against the law and some intersections have cameras to monitor the problem - but it continues. Dumb bush bunny that I am now, I don't run amber lights. Hard to believe that I was once a lower mainland driver, of which there are 2 kinds - the quick & the dead. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:16:55 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re:"Cops had hands cuffed" Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #953 Note this article tell us something important. The thousands of police at the G-20 meeting in Toronto had one purpose. That purpose was to protect the G20 Conference and the leaders of state who where in attendance. That's it, end of story. Protecting 'society', individual businesses or even individuals was not the orders they were operating under. Your business being damaged, getting broken into, you or your family being attacked, public property being set on fire? The agents of the state were protecting the state. You? You're on your own. There was no 'law enforcement' unless the citizen was going to do it. With thousands of police forces being short staffed by a number of their members working (overtime pay, though not the military :), criminals across Toronto and indeed the rest of Canada were safer. Hopefully, most of them never figured that out. Question, so where there any protest groups who'd applied for a demonstration permit and would have normally received a police escort for protection? Inquiring minds want to know. (for the record, I think the G-20 meeting was a qualified success and Canada's Prime Minister and Minister of Finance effectively, both before and during the meeting, derailed policies that would hinder world economic recovery. Though it could have been done cheaper, and demonstrators have rights separate from thugs who don't.) On 10-Jul-10, at 1:32 PM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > > http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/ > 2010/06/30/14564416.html#/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/06/30/ > pf-14564416.html > > Cops had hands 'cuffed > > By JOE WARMINGTON, Toronto Sun > Last Updated: June 30, 2010 8:29am > > Who made the decision for police to stand down despite the fact the > city was under attack? > > And why? > > Was it a police decision or political? > > These should be the cornerstone questions of an external review > surrounding the chaos of the G20. > > After all, police officers were trained to stop the Black Bloc > anarchists, were appropriately equipped and massively manned. > > As downtown Toronto witnessed burning police cars and a small group of > thugs on a rampage, a police source tells me the only thing that > stopped the officers from doing that was an order telling them not to. > > They tell me they could have rounded up all, or most of them, in no time. > > I have had several frontline police officers tell me they were told not > to get involved. But even before that decision was made, says one > insider, there was mass confusion and indecision. > > "The orders went from engage to, no, don't engage to engage to, no, > don't engage,' " said an officer. "It was an absolute shambles. Everyone > was talking over each other on the radio. Nobody seemed to know what to > do. It was just a mess." > > The officer said that eventually there was "a clear order from the > command centre saying 'Do not engage' " and, at that point, smelling > weakness and no repercussions, the downtown was effectively turned over > to the vandals while police, up to 19,000 strong, were ordered to stay > out of it. > > Four police cars were destroyed and dozens of other properties were > damaged. > > "It was awful," said an officer. "There were guys with equipment to do > the job, all standing around looking at each other in disbelief ... The > Montreal riot guys were livid ... They just wanted to get in there and > do the job but were told they are too intimidating." > > So who made that order? > > Was it Chief Bill Blair? Mayor David Miller? Prime Minister Stephen > Harper? Somebody else? > > The inevitable inquiry, separate from the announced internal police > review, will have to address this and a whole lot of other things. For > example, why were a record 1,000 arrests made a day after the actual > incident where very few arrests were made during it? > > How many convictions will there be? Could police have had more mobile > officers? Should they have been in bigger numbers on Yonge St.? > > Was it necessary to place people, some reportedly not even adults, in > temporary cages without a bed and open toilet for a so-called breach of > the peace? > > Was it appropriate to point weapons at protesters or even fire them? > > Was it constitutional to corral and hold hundreds of innocent people at > Queen St. and Spadina Ave.? > > Curiously, Blair didn't take as hard a stand a year before when the > Tamil Tiger supporters not only controlled University Ave. for four days > but also took over the Gardiner Expressway. > > "Miller wouldn't have let him as they are terrified to be called racist," > said one copper. > > Toronto Police so far have offered no apologies for the bizare incident > at Queen and Spadina, but my sources say that may be the easiest option > for them. > > "The chief is rattled because he knows that circus at Spadina and Queen > was unlawful and it is going to come back to bite him in the ass," said > one copper. "If one of us had detained people like that, we would be > hammered with Police Act charges." > > If it's deemed criminal, who investigates? The very people who ordered > it? > > With or without a probe, suggestions everybody in the vicinity of a > heated protest is complicit or a co-conspirator is almost as > embarrassing as Saturday's standoff. > > Many would like to know why they were so lenient originally on the real > bad guys and later how heavy-handed on the rest? > > Meanwhile, the blooper reel keeps on rolling, as illustrated so well by > the underwhelming arsenal Blair trotted out Tuesday of the kind of stuff > you'd find in someone's garage. > > When called on it, the chief even had to admit the most menacing items > on the table -- a crossbow and chainsaw -- weren't even related to the > G20, even though no one removed them for the media pictures. > > Who knows what's real any more? > > One thing that did appear real was a police video surveillance image of > the actual bad guys all huddled together in black clothing prior to the > destruction. > > Why didn't police brass act right then and there? After all there were > only a few dozen of them against 19,000 strong. > > This picture shows the police brass knew the location of the real > culprits and were tracking their movements. Why didn't they let their > people just nab them right there with the same zero tolerance Toronto > has for parking violations? > > Perhaps there are enough people out there who'd also like to know? > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, July 11, 2010 9:59 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: LETTER: Gun-registry argument flawed VANCOUVER PROVINCE - JULY 11, 2010 Gun-registry argument flawed BY ROD ELLIOTT http://www.theprovince.com/news/registry+argument+flawed/3263204/story.html Beverly Akerman's letter about the tragic death of Tony Menard is a perfect summation of the flaws in gun-registry supporters' thinking. Regardless of the registration status of the rifle involved, it is quite obvious that the registry did absolutely nothing to protect Mr. Menard. It would be interesting to hear Ms. Akerman explain exactly how firearms registration protected Mr. Menard. The answer is that it did not, nor does it make anybody safer; registration of guns cannot stop their misuse any more than registration of motor vehicles stops drunk driving. It's time registry advocates stopped trying to sell it as a public safety measure. Rod Elliott, Green Valley, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:47:52 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "Edm area RCMP constable charged with second degree murder" Subject: "Edmonton area RCMP constable charged with second degree murder"-Edmonton Journal" Some of the MSM will question police being able to bring their issued sidearm home. Others will question RCMP culture or 'male' culture in Canada. No one will question any possible other cultural connections. Another anecdote to add to the totalitarian advocacy that "only the police and the army should have firearms" file. ======================================= http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/RCMP+constable+charged+with+second+degree+murder/3263715/story.html Edmonton-area RCMP constable charged with second-degree murder By Richard Warnica and Ben Gelinas, edmontonjournal.com July 11, 2010 2:01 PM EDMONTON - A veteran member of the RCMP has been charged with second-degree murder one day after his wife was found dead in their Edmonton home. The Alberta Serious Incident Response Team (ASIRT) charged Const. Tirth Sehmbi on Sunday. The seven-year member of the force is scheduled to appear in court on Monday. Sehmbi, 36, was arrested early Saturday morning, about an hour after police found his wife’s body in their Jackson Heights home. Neighbours reported hearing gunshots coming from the house, at 44 Jefferson Road, at about 4:20 a.m. At 5:30 a.m. police arrested Sehmbi at another location. RCMP officials say Sehmbi was married to his wife for about nine years. Neighbours say they had two young boys. Sehmbi worked out of the Stony Plain detachment as a traffic services member. He has worked in the unit for about three years. “He will be suspended after a very quick process,” RCMP assistant commissioner Peter Hourihan said Sunday. Initially the suspension will be with pay, followed by a review to consider further steps, including the stoppage of pay. Sehmbi was not on duty at the time of his wife’s death, Hourihan said Saturday. Police say Sehmbi’s children are now in the care of family members. They don’t believe the two boys were home when their mother was killed. ASIRT, a provincial body which investigates police-involved deaths or serious injuries, is leading the investigation into the murder. Sehmbi, by all accounts, was a prominent member of his community. For six or seven months starting last year he hosted a weekly show for newcomers on Radio Punjab in Edmonton. The station’s operator, Sukhdev Dhillon, said Sehmbi would tell listeners about the RCMP and the services they could use. The constable left the station a few months ago. Dhillon said the family always seemed happy when he would visit their home. “This is such a shock,” he said. “I can’t get over it.” rwarnica@thejournal.canwest.com © Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal - -- -- Letter to the Editor You can email your letter to; letters@thejournal.canwest.com ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #954 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)