Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, July 19 2010 Volume 13 : Number 963 In this issue: RE: Fw: handgun control petition OPPOSE Elena Kagan's Confirmation to U.S. Supreme Court Ten wounded in shootings during Black Expo RE: Fw: handgun control petition "Women are the new men" Re: Fw: handgun control petition RE: The Battle of Athens, Tennessee RE: handgun control petition "Naked gunman holds city hostage"-QMI Re gun petition (Canada) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:33:46 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: RE: Fw: handgun control petition At 03:52 PM 7/17/2010 -0700, you wrote: > >I signed the petition ;-) > >I'm #290 - go check out my comments (hee, hee) > >http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/increase-age-of-handgun-ownership/signa tures.html > >Jim Pook >Vancouver Island-North Every one who signed that petition is willing to blame and punish every handgun owner in Canada for the actions of one miscreant. It is called sterotyping and bigotry folks and it is against gun owners. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:47:59 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: OPPOSE Elena Kagan's Confirmation to U.S. Supreme Court NRA-ILA GRASSROOTS ALERT Vol. 17, No. 28 07/16/10 Contact Your Senators And Urge Them To OPPOSE Elena Kagan's Confirmation to U.S. Supreme Court http://www.ilaalerts.org/UM/T.asp?A1.2.6743.5.1548049 As we reported http://www.ilaalerts.org/UM/T.asp?A1.2.6743.7.1548049 in last week's Grassroots Alert, on July 1, NRA announced its strong opposition http://www.ilaalerts.org/UM/T.asp?A1.2.6743.8.1548049 to the confirmation of Elena Kagan for the U.S. Supreme Court in a letter http://www.ilaalerts.org/UM/T.asp?A1.2.6743.9.1548049 to the U.S. Senate. Both her political career in the Clinton Administration and her testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee make it clear that Kagan is a serious opponent of our Second Amendment Rights. Last year, Sonia Sotomayor deliberately misled the American people by claiming she believed it was "settled law" that the Second Amendment protected an individual right to keep and bear arms. This year, she proved she never really believed that by ruling against the Second Amendment in McDonald v. City of Chicago. The "Blame and Punish Gun Owners Act" http://www.ilaalerts.org/UM/T.asp?A1.2.6743.10.1548049 -- Anti-gun politicians have often looked for ways to penalize law-abiding gun owners rather than go after violent criminals. Now, through "lost or stolen" laws, they increasingly want to punish gun owners who are crime victims. "OMG, More Handguns!" http://www.ilaalerts.org/UM/T.asp?A1.2.6743.11.1548049 -- In 1979, the group now known as the Brady Campaign said "over 50 million handguns flood the houses and streets of our nation. . . . If we continue at this pace, we will have equipped ourselves with more than 100 million handguns by the turn of the century. One hundred million handguns. Will we be safer then?" Missouri Governor Signs Important Pro-Gun Measures Into Law: http://www.ilaalerts.org/UM/T.asp?A1.2.6743.12.1548049 This week, Missouri Governor Jay Nixon (D) signed into law HB 1692, a bill that includes several important pro-gun measures for the Show-Me State. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:24:04 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Ten wounded in shootings during Black Expo http://www.ibj.com/ten-wounded-in-3-shootings-at-black-expo/PARAMS/article/21166 Ten wounded in shootings during Black Expo Associated Press July 18, 2010 Three separate shootings left 10 people wounded and scattered hundreds in downtown Indianapolis during the crowded Indiana Black Expo, police said early Sunday. Police spokesman Lt. Jeff Duhamell said authorities made no immediate arrests directly tied to the shootings and investigators were seeking leads to the suspects. None of the victims' injuries were life-threatening, Duhamell told The Associated Press, adding police had made three unrelated arrests on weapons charges. The shooting began when several shots rang out around 9:30 p.m. Saturday near Circle Centre mall, leaving eight people wounded and sending people running, Duhamell said. He said a second shooting occurred nearby just minutes after the initial shooting and left one young man wounded. He added that the third shooting occurred around 11:30 p.m. and left another man wounded. Duhamell said the shooting victims were all males between 10 and 18 years old. He said most were taken to two area hospitals where they were in good condition early Sunday. One person was treated at the scene. Authorities say none of the shootings occurred at venues playing host to Black Expo activities, but police patrolling amid the crowd moving about the downtown area quickly converged on the scene. "It's pretty unusual to have this many shots in one time. It's very unfortunate," Duhamell said. Duhamell said investigators had no immediate report on a possible motive but were trying to determine if any of the shootings were gang-related. He said hundreds of officers had been assigned to policing the 10-day event, which concludes later Sunday. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:10:46 -0700 From: "Jim Pook" Subject: RE: Fw: handgun control petition Not to worry. The "name" I used is not one they can include in the petition. My comments also stress that I am against the petition. And if that is not enough - petitions are rarely granted any weight by government. Especially online petitions. Jim Pook Vancouver Island-North - -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca] On Behalf Of 10x@telus.net Sent: July 18, 2010 7:34 AM To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: RE: Fw: handgun control petition At 03:52 PM 7/17/2010 -0700, you wrote: > >I signed the petition ;-) > >I'm #290 - go check out my comments (hee, hee) > >http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/increase-age-of-handgun-ownership/signa tures.html > >Jim Pook >Vancouver Island-North Every one who signed that petition is willing to blame and punish every handgun owner in Canada for the actions of one miscreant. It is called stereotyping and bigotry folks and it is against gun owners. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:46:47 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "Women are the new men" Our current problems, which to our minds should be simply solvable are viewed, differently by the opposite gender e.i. freedom vrs. "security" provided by someone else. This lowering of male status is also a contributing factor in the rise of crime among male youth. If it doesn't poll well with the female demographic most politicians won't touch it. Mass media, certainly, television has a larger female demographic which you can tell by the ads. Add in a growing number of female in the news/entertainment business. So older men aren't used to being a low status minority group, and organizing politically has more history in Canada of the left and the union movement. Now the farmer/labour movement is actually mostly urban female government workers. Even the blue collar workers unions know bow to them. (SFL/CFL) The current political situation is multi-factorial. Older people are more likely to vote but the percentage of the population who remember what it was like even twenty-thirty years ago shrinks year by year. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Women are the new men" http://www.newser.com/story/95468/women-are-the-new-men.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:57:13 -0400 From: "tliner" Subject: Re: Fw: handgun control petition oops. looks like they deleted your comments but left the name there - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Pook" To: Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 3:10 PM Subject: RE: Fw: handgun control petition > Not to worry. The "name" I used is not one they can include in the > petition. > My comments also stress that I am against the petition. > > And if that is not enough - petitions are rarely granted any weight by > government. Especially online petitions. > > Jim Pook > Vancouver Island-North > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca] On Behalf Of 10x@telus.net > Sent: July 18, 2010 7:34 AM > To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: RE: Fw: handgun control petition > > > At 03:52 PM 7/17/2010 -0700, you wrote: >> >>I signed the petition ;-) >> >>I'm #290 - go check out my comments (hee, hee) >> http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/increase-age-of-handgun-ownership/signatures.html >> >>Jim Pook >>Vancouver Island-North > > Every one who signed that petition is willing to blame and punish every > handgun owner in Canada for the actions of one miscreant. > It is called stereotyping and bigotry folks and it is against gun owners. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:40:42 -0400 From: TONY KATZ Subject: RE: The Battle of Athens, Tennessee this would make for an interesting and timely movie but I doubt it could get made in democratic hollywood. > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:06:49 -0600 > From: whitefox@sasktel.net > Subject: The Battle of Athens, Tennessee > To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > > http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/athens.htm > > The Battle of Athens, Tennessee > > As Recently As 1946, American Citizens Were Forced To Take Up Arms As A Last Resort Against Corrupt Government Officials. > > (Another related article; http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/athens-seiber.htm > - is also available on this subject) > ( Further recommended reading - from mises.org/ > http://mises.org/story/2874 ) > > Read also about "The Gaspee Affair" http://gaspee.org/Haley.html of Rhode > Island. Or - (JPFO page version > http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/gaspee.htm ) > > > Published in Guns & Ammo October 1995, pp. 50-51 > > On August 1-2, 1946, some Americans, brutalized by their county > government, used armed force as a last resort to overturn it. These > Americans wanted honest open elections. For years they had asked for > state or federal election monitors to prevent vote fraud (forged > ballots, secret ballot counts and intimidation by armed sheriff's > deputies) by the local political boss. They got no help. > > These Americans' absolute refusal to knuckle under had been hardened by > service in World War II. Having fought to free other countries from > murderous regimes, they rejected vicious abuse by their county > government. > > These Americans had a choice. Their state's Constitution -- Article 1, > Section 26 -- recorded their right to keep and bear arms for the common > defense. Few "gun control" laws had been enacted. > > These Americans were residents of McMinn County, which is located between > Chattanooga and Knoxville in Eastern Tennessee. The two main towns were > Athens and Etowah. McMinn County residents had long been independent > political thinkers. For a long time they also had: accepted bribe-taking > by politicians and/or the sheriff to overlook illicit whiskey-making > and gambling; financed the sheriff's department from fines-usually for > speeding or public drunkenness which promoted false arrests; and put up > with voting fraud by both Democrats and Republicans. > > The wealthy Cantrell family, of Etowah, backed Franklin Delano Roosevelt > in the 1932 election, hoping New Deal programs would revive the local > economy and help Democrats to replace Republicans in the county > government. So it proved. > > Paul Cantrell was elected sheriff in the 1936,1938 and 1940 elections, > but by slim margins. The sheriff was the key county official. Cantrell > was elected to the state senate in 1942 and 1944; his chief deputy, Pat > Mansfield, was elected sheriff. In 1946 Paul Cantrell again sought the > sheriff's office. > > At the end of 1945, some 3,000 battle-hardened veterans returned to > McMinn County; the GIs held Cantrell politically responsible for > Mansfield's doings. Early in 1946, some newly returned ex-GIs decided to > challenge Cantrell politically by offering an all-ex-GI, non-partisan > ticket. They promised a fraud-free election, stating in ads and speeches > that there would be an honest ballot count and reform of county > government. > > At a rally, a GI speaker said, "The principles that we fought for in this > past war do not exist in McMinn County. We fought for democracy because > we believe in democracy but not the form we live under in this county" > (Daily Post-Athenian, 17 June 1946, p.1 ). At the end of July 1946, 159 > McMinn County GIs petitioned the FBI to send election monitors. There > was no response. The Department of Justice had not responded to McMinn > County residents' complaints of election fraud in 1940, 1942 and 1944. > > FROM BALLOTS TO BULLETS > > The primary election was held on August 1. To intimidate voters, > Mansfield brought in some 200 armed "deputies." GI poll-watchers were > beaten almost at once. At about 3 p.m., Tom Gillespie, an African- > American voter was told by a sheriff's deputy that he could not vote. > Despite being beaten, Gillespie persisted. The enraged deputy shot him. > The gunshot drew a crowd. Rumors spread that Gillespie had been shot in > the back; he later recovered. - > (C. Stephen Byrum, The Battle of Athens, Paidia Productions, Chattanooga, > TN, 1987; pp. 155-57). > > Other deputies detained ex-GI poll-watchers in a polling place, as that > made the ballot counting "Public" A crowd gathered. Sheriff Mansfield > told his deputies to disperse the crowd. When the two ex-GIs smashed a > big window and escaped, the crowd surged forward. The deputies, with guns > drawn, formed a tight half-circle around the front of the polling place. > One deputy, "his gun raised high...shouted: 'If you sons of bitches cross > this street I'll kill you!'" (Byrum, p.165). > > Mansfield took the ballot boxes to the jail for counting. The deputies > seemed to fear immediate attack by the "people who had just liberated > Europe and the South Pacific from two of the most powerful war machines > in human history" (Byrum, pp. 168-69). > > Short of firearms and ammunition, the GIs scoured the county to find > them. By borrowing keys to the National Guard and State Guard armories, > they got three M-1 rifles, five .45 semi-automatic pistols and 24 > British Enfield rifles. The armories were nearly empty after the war's > end. By 8 p.m. a group of GIs and "local boys" headed for the jail but > left the back door unguarded to give the jail's defenders an easy way > out. > > Three GIs alerting passers-by to danger were fired on from the jail. Two > GIs were wounded. Other GIs returned fire. > > Firing subsided after 30 minutes; ammunition ran low and night had > fallen. Thick brick walls shielded those inside the jail. Absent radios, > the GIs' rifle fire was uncoordinated. "From the hillside fire rose and > fell in disorganized cascades. More than anything else, people were > simply shooting at the jail" (Byrum, p.189). > > Several who ventured into the street in front of the jail were wounded. > One man inside the jail was badly hurt; he recovered. Most sheriff's > deputies wanted to hunker down and await rescue. Governor McCord > mobilized the State Guard, perhaps to scare the GIs into withdrawing. > The State Guard never went to Athens. McCord may have feared that Guard > units filled with ex-GIs might not fire on other ex-GIs. > > At about 2 a.m. on August 2, the GIs forced the issue. Men from Meigs > County threw dynamite sticks and damaged the jail's porch. The panicked > deputies surrendered. GIs quickly secured the building. Paul Cantrell > faded into the night, having almost been shot by a GI who knew him, but > whose .45 pistol had jammed. Mansfield's deputies were kept overnight in > jail for their own safety. Calm soon returned. The GIs posted guards. The > rifles borrowed from the armory were cleaned and returned before sunup. > > THE AFTERMATH: RESTORING DEMOCRACY > > In five precincts free of vote fraud, the GI candidate for sheriff, Knox > Henry, won 1,168 votes to Cantrell's 789. Other GI candidates won by > similar margins. > > The GI's did not hate Cantrell. They only wanted honest government. On > August 2, a town meeting set up a three-man governing committee. The > regular police having fled, six men were chosen to police Etowah. In > addition, "Individual citizens were called upon to form patrols or guard > groups, often led by a GI... To their credit, however, there is not a > single mention of an abuse of power on their behalf" (Byrum, p. 220). > > Once the GI candidates' victory had been certified, they cleaned up > county government, the jail was fixed, newly elected officials accepted > a $5,000 pay limit and Mansfield supporters who resigned were replaced. > > The general election on November 5 passed quietly. McMinn County > residents, having restored the rule of law, returned to their daily > ives. > Pat Mansfield moved back to Georgia. Paul Cantrell set up an auto > dealership in Etowah. "Almost everyone who knew Cantrell in the years > after the Battle' agree that he was not bitter about what had happened" > (Byrum pp. 232-33; > see also New York Times, 9 August 1946, p. 8). > > The 79th Congress adjourned on August 2, 1946, when the Battle of Athens > ended. However, Representative John Jennings Jr. from Tennessee decried > McMinn County's sorry situation under Cantrell and Mansfield and the > Justice Department's repeated failures to help the McMinn County > residents. > Jennings was delighted that "...at long last, decency and honesty, > liberty and law have returned to the fine county of McMinn.. " > (Congressional Record, House; U.S. Government Printing Office, > Washington, D.C., 1946; Appendix, Volume 92, Part 13, p. A4870). > > THE LESSONS OF ATHENS > > Those who took up arms in Athens, Tennessee, wanted honest elections, a > cornerstone of our constitutional order. They had repeatedly tried to get > federal or state election monitors and had used armed force so as to > minimize harm to the law-breakers, showing little malice to the defeated > law-breakers. They restored lawful government. > > The Battle of Athens clearly shows how Americans can and should lawfully > use armed force and also shows why the rule of law requires unrestricted > access to firearms and how civilians with military-type firearms can beat > the forces of government gone bad. > > Dictators believe that public order is more important than the rule of > law. However, Americans reject this idea. Brutal political repression is > lethal to many. An individual criminal can harm a handful of people. > Governments alone can brutalize thousands, or millions. > > Law-abiding McMinn County residents won the Battle of Athens because they > were not hamstrung by "gun control " They showed us when citizens can and > should use armed force to support the rule of law. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:21:21 -0400 From: TONY KATZ Subject: RE: handgun control petition send a note to the author; http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/increase-age-of-handgun-ownership.html here is mine Legitimately ownd handguns are not a source for the gun violence in the GTA or any other part of the country. If you knew anything at all about the ranges in Canada you would realize that trying to implement such a regime would be prohibitively expensive and would undoubtly result in the wholesale theft of firearms from these conviently gathered guns. Most ranges are outdoors and as a consequence remote from urban areas, (just the way mayor Miller wants it), and would result in significant delays in a police response. Guns are a 19th century technology and easier to produce than extacy or crystal meth, your proposal is impractical and does not have a prayer of acheiving its stated goals just as our existing laws have failed to do. When they were proposed the claims of cost were misrepresented as 2 million dollars and have since surpassed 2 billion. Gun crime has since increased and handgun crime in particular has risen dramaticaly. Doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result is a classic definition of insanity > From: bletchleypark@rogers.com > To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: Fw: handgun control petition > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 16:59:57 -0400 > > If we don't take the opportunity to make our position known to these > f%#king idiots we ought to go and stand in the corner. > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: bletchleypark@rogers.com=20 > To: bletchleypark@rogers.com=20 > Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:13 PM > Subject: handgun control petition > > bletchleypark@rogers.com has forwarded you this craigslist.org posting. > > Please see below for more information. > > Visit the posting at; > http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/pol/1847108417.html > - to contact the person who posted this. > > ------------------------------- > > handgun control petition > Date: 2010-07-16, 7:40PM > > sign the handgun control petition today and forward it to your friends. > > It's a good cause aimed at stopping hundreds of senseless deaths of young > people every year in Canada. > http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/increase-age-of-handgun-ownership.html > > > a.. it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial > interests. > > Original URL: http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/pol/1847108417.html > > --------------------------- > > this craigslist posting was forwarded to you by someone using our > email-a-friend feature - if you want to prevent these, please go to: > http://www.craigslist.org/cgi-bin/te/lxmYoNGd5VGbyFGcyB0ald2buMnct92Y9 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:37:39 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "Naked gunman holds city hostage"-QMI Actually, according to the story all the guy was wearing was a holster which it turned out contained "non-serviceable replica sidearm", or in other words a toy gun. A sensationalist anti-gun media and a nutbar leads to irrational gov't. policy without an organized political counterweight. ========================================= Naked gunman holds city hostage-QMI Australia http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2010/07/18/14748921.html By QMI Agency July 18, 2010 A ranting Aussie gunman wearing nothing but a sidearm holster stood on top of a billboard and held much of downtown Perth hostage Saturday afternoon. All traffic in the area was stopped and train service at a nearby station was halted as police negotiators, backed by sharpshooters, talked to the distraught man for four hours. “He is just ranting and raving at this stage,” police told PerthNow.com during the standoff.“It is not the actions of a rational person to be up there naked in the middle of Perth with what appears to be a handgun. Around dinnertime Saturday, police convinced the man to surrender his weapon — which turned out to be an unserviceable replica firearm, Australia's ABC TV network reported. The 38-year-old Perth man was then lowered to the ground by a cherrypicker and is now undergoing a mental health assessment in hospital, ABC said. Police said the man is married and has children but would not identify him. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:04:32 -0700 (PDT) From: bletchleypark@rogers.com Subject: Re gun petition (Canada) bletchleypark@rogers.com has forwarded you this craigslist.org posting. Please see below for more information. Visit the posting at; http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/pol/1848818911.html - - to contact the person who posted this. Re gun petition Date: 2010-07-17, 8:42PM It never ceases to amaze me that the individuals who are the most rabid against the law abiding owning sporting firearms have themselves never been involved in their sporting use or know nothing of the rules and regulations governing such ownership that already exist. As ex-law-enforcement I am more qualified than most to clear the cloud of misinformation, emotion, half truths and hyperbole. Canada already has some of the world's toughest gun control laws. These prohibitions, regulations and laws have done nothing to stop criminals from obtaining firearms to commit crimes. The reason: Criminals do not obey the law! They NEVER will. Even if handguns were to be totally banned, criminals will still be able to secure the prefered tools of their trade. Prohibitions of any type have never succeeded. In the 1920's they tried to prohibit alcohol. That failed. In the 1960's they declared a war on drugs. That failed. All prohibitions achieve are to provide organized crime with the means to generate enormous profits by becoming the sole supplier of prohibited goods. It is myopic to believe that any type of prohibition will succeed in eliminating any product that is in great demand. From my experience in dealing with gun control proponents, I find them to be less than honest in their actual goals at best and disengenguous at worst. They claim to want greater oversight and eliminations of ceratin types of firearms (that they alone deem offensive) owned by legitimate law abiding firearm owners. This they claim is in the name of public safety. However, when one investigates more closely, it becomes apparent that their true motives is not gun control but gun confiscation. Law abiding gun owners, as a consequence of Bill C-68, have had to surrender eight of the very Charter of Rights that we as Canadians have come to cherish and expect. People are astonished when I inform them that convicted child molesters and rapist have more Rights than law abiding firearm owners -- who have committed NO crime. Over 12,000 Canadians die each year needlessly because of medical mistakes. Over 7,000 Canadians die each year in car accidents. If public safety were genuinely their concern, they would press their efforts in a more urgent arena and leave Canadian Heritage Sports alone. The truth of the matter is that gun contol has little to do with the concern of public safety at all. It has everything to do with manipulating an uninformed and gullible public for the purpose of promoting their own political agendas. Location: Canada it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests Original URL: http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/pol/1848818911.html ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #963 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)