Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, July 21 2010 Volume 13 : Number 967 In this issue: RE: Calgary Shooting [Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella] Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #965 Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella RE: Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella Re: Calgary Shooting [Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella] Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #965 Re: "Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella" GLOBE & MAIL: A frightening portrait of gun-crazy Canada Letter to Globe (just sent) SMALL ARMS SURVEY: New Publication Re: SMALL ARMS SURVEY: New Publication Crime numbers down again in 2009: StatsCan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:54:28 -0700 From: "Jim Pook" Subject: RE: Calgary Shooting [Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella] The main difference here is that Bambi is not likely to shoot back. If you fail to shoot because you can't clearly id your target, the only thing lost is a freezer full of meat. If a policeman fails to shoot because he cannot id what the suspect is aiming toward other police, it could result in the injury or death of a fellow police officer or a member of the public. Now, I hate to give the police any leeway, this situation called for the use of deadly force. It was the suspect who chose "death by cop". Jim Pook Vancouver Island-North - -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca] On Behalf Of birch_as_in_tree@telus.net Sent: July 20, 2010 10:37 AM To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Calgary Shooting [Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella] The guy shot Monday by the RCMP in Calgary was carrying an umbrella. "It appeared he was holding a weapon, pointing it at police." The registry said he was known to have firearms on the premise and had earlier brandished a shotgun. So he died because the registry said he had guns and because the RCMP was not able to identify an umbrella. If a hunter misidentifies a species and fires, killing it, he is guilty of an offence under most provincial game acts. One of the first things hunter safety training imbues in students is target identification before acquiring the sight picture, offing the safety and touching the trigger. You are taught that it is better to lose the shot than to shoot unlawfully. Pity that rationale does not apply to police shooting people ...... http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2010/07/19/14757476.html Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella By KATIE SCHNEIDER, Calgary Sun Last Updated: July 19, 2010 9:41pm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:02:48 -0400 From: "Pat" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #965 Semrau's crime (if it can be called that) was to talk about what he either did, or thought he should do, or thought he should have done. Telling others you killed someone - whether in the heat of combat or a wounded combatant in the aftermath of a firefight - is bound to raise questions. If he had just kept his flaming big yap shut, it is unlikely that he would have; (a) been charged or; (b) found guilty of anything - although there might have been lingering suspicians... My 2 cents worth... Pat W ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:56:11 -0400 > From: "mred" > Subject: Re: Semrau not guilty of murdering Taliban fighter - Nat. Post > > From what I understand this was a mercy killing ? apparently the alleged > Taliban intestines were not only exposed but hanging out and damaged + > other injuries. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:48:25 -0400 From: Subject: Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella Don't worry good and gentle readers. They wont deny what happened, but they will Justify what happened. Remember the Police Motto....never deny always justify. Same thing they did when they killed that poor Pollack in Vancouver. See how many other cases you can come up with the same motto in it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:01:38 -0400 From: TONY KATZ Subject: RE: Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella less than ten meters from the victim and he fired 6 shots. did he not have a tactical light on the rifle, if he did he should have been able to identify the 12 gauge umbrella and if not he was improperly equipped for a night operation or any operation. you neve know when you need to enter a dark room. > From: ross.j@rogers.com > To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella > Date: Tue=2C 20 Jul 2010 19:48:25 -0400 > > Don't worry good and gentle readers. They wont deny what happened, but > they will Justify what happened. Remember the Police Motto....never deny > always justify. Same thing they did when they killed that poor Pollack in > Vancouver. > > See how many other cases you can come up with the same motto in it. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:43:37 -0700 From: Bob Subject: Re: Calgary Shooting [Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella] I've seen/read/heard of the Polease shooting all kinds of "suspects" for holding any kind object, spatula, wallet, comp, whatever you were working with at the time of cop intrusion. Say for instance.......you're holding up a CCW wallet when the polease arrive, YOU may get nuked too..... THEY don't care, the taxpayer will pay the Billions of dollars the polease make Compensation Payments to and the Trillions they extort from some starving poor Mexican emerald or cocaine outfits like the Sweat Shop entrepreneurs like Noriega or Carlos Slim. That with the no erroneous cop videos makes the polease one of the biggest Public Gangs in market, next to the military (under the posse comitatus act) who live on reservations like any other tribe... The para military are polease and military, who are not directly affected by the (under the posse comitatus act) of the geneva conventions.....funny?? is now......think Pearl Harbor and WTC......not so funny anymore heh. Unfortunately I don't like the military and the snot nosed infantry who strut OUR stuff and blood seat and tears of civilian life......but wait, with this "geneva convention" interpol law, came all the Terrorist rules and stupidity the public is supposed to believe. Under the interpol (geneva convention) in any Cold War like the ones we are in, any SPY is shot on sight.......so is this Garbo hour and WHO is not a spy, when the Guv't is the biggest SPY of them all, and it still a SPY<<-->>Spy issue. If I hear anther piece of legislation law......well you know, since laws don't help anyone except jailers like the Guv't.......it all goes down as any other Valkyrie situation mano-a-mano to a "habeas corpus" to face your accuser....... In this case registration did not lead to confiscation, it lead to DEATH....a big step up to the pony boys to notch their gun and beat their yellow chests.....as they join the ranks of the lowest bATFe/Swat/Igtf2 gangbangers. The only law I need is the Intersection Lights in the City proly the only good Cop is the Traffic cop. Bob On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:47:56 -0600 (CST), you wrote: |>------------------------------ |> |>Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:44:19 -0400 (EDT) |>From: mred@295.ca |>Subject: Re: Calgary Shooting [Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella] |> |>umbrellas trump staplers ??...ed/on http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2010/07/19/14757476.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:50:09 -0700 From: Bob Subject: Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course You know, when I challenged my Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course test, I thought ACTS mean't (Association of Competitive Tactical Shooters), so you can imagine why I had a hard time with the "cradle position" question, since I am all handguns these days, and don't relate much to that concept/position. I doubt if any (Association of Competitive Tactical Shooters) would pass the CRFSC , they'd be looking for a mean test, and therefore flunk the easy dumb tactical questions and emulations of the real thing. As a CRFSC Challenger, I thought I had to identify the bullets on the table by sight....I got them right, but I forgot to look, so I flunked the 1st test.....after all, the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course written was NOT an open book, so why should this part be an open book to look at the casing base in a "test"......another I got'cha. I realize that some newbie ppl may find the CRFSC (Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course) useful, but I don't really know of any.Even with 60,000 handgun precision rounds of experience, you gotta start all over with these guys....... A lot of Shooting Ranges call for an additional written test, followed by a bunch of other practical tests, some moderated, others see the light of "Safety is Between Your Ears" or Common Sense, which is not in the CFRSC exam. I could have left my attitude at home on that, but it just followed me around.....the CRFSC written has always been a joke to most, and a waste of time and money! Of course, the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course is better than some gun greeny almost "newborn" being allowed a handgun, or a more dangerous rifle. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:54:13 -0400 From: "bletchleypark" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #965 You sir, have hit the proverbial nail on the head! 2 cent worth, no. Priceless, yes! Throughout history, soldiers have been faced with such a dilemma countless times. Depending on what level of social mores of the times that existed would predicate to what extent of internal emotional wrestling took place in the conscience of the soldier. Whether it be compassion for a suffering, mortally wounded fellow warrior or revenge on a crippled enemy, the dispatch of a wounded combatant has always seemed humanely essential. Unfortunately, in today's politically correct environment this issue appears to have become somewhat murky. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 6:02 PM Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #965 > Semrau's crime (if it can be called that) was to talk about what he either > did, or thought he should do, or thought he should have done. Telling > others you killed someone - whether in the heat of combat or a wounded > combatant in the aftermath of a firefight - is bound to raise questions. > > If he had just kept his flaming big yap shut, it is unlikely that he would > have; > (a) been charged or; > (b) found guilty of anything - although there might have been lingering > suspicians... > > My 2 cents worth... > > Pat W > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:56:11 -0400 >> From: "mred" >> Subject: Re: Semrau not guilty of murdering Taliban fighter - Nat. Post >> >> From what I understand this was a mercy killing ? apparently the alleged >> Taliban intestines were not only exposed but hanging out and damaged + >> other injuries. >> > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 01:28:56 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: "Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella" A case of eliminating firearms licence holders, one at a time. His first mistake was obtaining a firearms licence and registering guns, calling the RCMP was the second mistake by whoever made that call. Calling the police for what sounds like a minor incident lead to a major escalation. I compare that to recent case of the Moose Jaw cop who was stabbed by a teen being arrested. He wasn't shot, they called out the K-9 unit to take him down. Municipal police seem to be better trained and controlled than the federales? I understand the 'suicide by cop' problem but this was ridiculous. Put this in the 'true cost of gun control file'. I remember back when increasing the number of people they didn't shoot was the goal. If you're not willing to take risks then you're in the wrong job, at least in a democracy. On 20-Jul-10, at 3:47 PM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > > http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2010/07/19/14757476.html > > Man killed by RCMP was armed with umbrella > > By KATIE SCHNEIDER, Calgary Sun > Last Updated: July 19, 2010 9:41pm > > The man shot to death by RCMP in Okotoks was pointing an umbrella at > officers, not a firearm, when he was gunned down. > > And now investigators are looking into whether Corey Lewis, 39, died > in a suicide by police incident early Sunday morning. > > The standoff with Lewis, the husband of town councillor Naydene Lewis, > began Saturday about 10 p.m. after Mounties, sent two hours earlier to > investigate an assault on his stepson, found him alone and armed > with a shotgun. > > The confrontation ended about 2 a.m. Sunday when a constable fired six > shots with an M-16 long barrelled rifle after Lewis emerged from the > house, crouched down on one knee and raised what at the time was > believed to be a gun, but was actually a dark coloured umbrella. > > The man held the umbrella, which had a silver tip and measured about a > metre long, to his cheek, said Clifton Purvis, executive director > of the Alberta Serious Incident Response Team (ASIRT). > > "He was in process of turning and aiming toward a member of the > emergency response team who shot six times striking him numerous > times," he said. > > A search of the home found five long barrelled firearms, one > shotgun and four rifles, all of which were lawfully registered to > Lewis, as well as writing believed to have been penned by Lewis > suggesting he may have intended suicide by cops, Purvis said. > > "After having considered the content of this written material ASIRT > is investigating the possibility that the deceased intended suicide > when he engaged the police," he said. > > "At this time our investigation is exploring what his intentions > were and indeed witnesses are being interviewed." > > The investigation will also uncover what mode the constable's gun > was in and whether he was reasonable in believing the umbrella was > a gun. > > "Really that's one of the most critical pieces of our investigation > is to determine what his belief was at the time the umbrella was > pointed at him," he said. > > It was dark at the time with limited artificial lighting and the > distance between the constable and the victim was about nine metres, > Purvis said. > > The investigation will be exhaustive, he said. > > "We will determine whether or not the actions of the police officer > involved in this officer-involved shooting ... were justified and > whether they were lawful," he said. > > Lewis worked for Bison Transport for about two years as a dispatcher. > > When contacted Monday, vice president of western operations Trevor > Fridfinnson refused comment other than to offer sympathies to the > family. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, July 21, 2010 8:34 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: GLOBE & MAIL: A frightening portrait of gun-crazy Canada GLOBE AND MAIL - JULY 21, 2010 A frightening portrait of gun-crazy Canada By John Doyle http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/television/john-doyle/a-frightening-portrait-of-gun-crazy-canada/article1646371/ One of the many unsubtle indicators of how closely we now resemble the United States is an obsession with guns and gun control. There is an entire political subculture devoted to the issue, it seems. Certainly, there is a vast amount of rhetoric. If we are to believe a lot of the rhetoric, the farmers and hunters of Canada have been insulted, demeaned and made to feel like criminals. They are a group under siege. The current situation is rooted in reaction to the killing of 14 women at Montreal's École Polytechnique in 1989. The appalling murders led some, including the government of the day, to see the sense in creating a gun registry. That was a very Canadian response. A measured rejoinder. Regulation. Paper work. But the Conservatives have always opposed the gun registry, and demonized it as a boondoggle, typical of the former Liberal government. No matter that the auditor-general found that eliminating the long-gun section of the registry might only save taxpayers about $3-million a year. The gun registry seems destined to disappear. The origins of it have been lost in a fog of political posturing, accusations and bombast. The long-term result is that the gun issue has been fetishized, and slogans used by the NRA in the U.S. have entered into Canadian debates. According to Revealed: Missing the Target (Global 10 p.m.), Kevin Newman’s news documentary, the contentious gun debate here is misguided. It has distracted from the alarming increase in the number of handguns being used by kids and in Canada’s cites. As it makes clear, while politicians seek photo-ops to denounce the gun registry, handguns are killing kids in Canadian cities Newman’s story starts in the Jane/Finch area of Toronto with the shooting death of 11-year-old Ephraim Brown, believed to be Toronto's youngest fatal-shooting victim. The two men charged with his killing were aged 20 and 21 years old. Then the story goes to Newfoundland, where Ephraim’s uncle is a registered gun owner and has a number of rifles. The uncle began a campaign to have handguns banned in Canada but immediately faced a backlash. Even though his aim was to stop handguns, he faced abuse and threats from gun owners. The fact of the death of an 11-year-old mattered little. From there we meet the Mayor of Toronto, David Miller, who supported the handgun ban but in reality can do little to enforce it. A city program to have youths surrender guns in exchange for digital cameras brought in a frightening number of weapons. But as an anti-gang activist points out, the attitude among gun-toting youths is, “If I have six guns, sure I’ll give you two of them for a camera.” There is also a dismaying picture of the small successes in stopping the flow of handguns into Canada. Apparently, these days, Canadian drug dealers ship their merchandise to the U.S. and often like to be paid with guns. Stopping the flow is obviously a necessity but achievements are negligible. It’s pointed out that in Windsor, Ont., at Canada’s busiest border crossing, a total of only 28 guns were seized in 2008. Meanwhile, thousands of handguns flow into Canada every year. Perhaps the most telling example of the gun culture in Canadian cities is in the seemingly peripheral story of a rap singer from the Jane/Finch area. Newman and his producers made contact with him and talked about the issue and then the singer disappeared. Eventually he was back in touch, leaving a message that he’d been shot, a guy in the wrong place at the wrong time. In the end, what we get is deeply disturbing. The facts are stark but the action is limited. And Newman says, “We have lost sight of what needs debating.” And the viewer is left thinking that it’s not just political rhetoric about gun-owners’ rights that defines us as resembling the United States. It’s the fact that we have ghettos where gun deaths happen all the time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:55:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to Globe (just sent) A frightening portrait of gun-crazy Canada (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, John Doyle attempts to connect the dots between Canada's draconian firearm regulatory regime and the criminal abuse of illegal handguns by inner city gangs, but alas, there is no connection whatsoever. The firearm regulations pertain only to persons who are licensed to own them, and indeed represent a generations long attempt by the Liberal architects of that law to wrest lawfully owned firearms away from law abiding owners. Criminal acts were studiously and intentionally left outside the scope of the firearms laws and so it would be strange indeed if our laws had any effect upon the criminals. Doyle makes the common mistake that law abiding firearms somehow facilitate the supply side of criminal activities, but there is no evidence for that, outside the bleating of those (like Doyle) who do not understand or care to address the real problems. Criminal activities are enabled by highly organized professional criminals who smuggle and supply both guns and drugs and make their living from the suffering of the disadvantaged. If you really want to stop the carnage, then you need to address the demand for both drugs and weapons, because we have completely missed the boat on the supply side. Responsible firearm owners are not now, and never have been a problem in Canada. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, July 21, 2010 8:04 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: SMALL ARMS SURVEY: New Publication From: Small Arms Survey [mailto:noreply@smallarmssurvey.org] Sent: July-21-10 4:19 AM To: Small Arms Survey Mailing List Subject: Surveying Europes Production and Procurement of Small Arms and Light Weapons Ammunition: The Cases of Italy, France and the Russian Federation NEW Publication 'Surveying Europe's Production and Procurement of Small Arms and Light Weapons Ammunition: The Cases of Italy, France and the Russian Federation' Edited by Benjamin King To access this publication online, please go to: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files/sas/publications/w_papers_pdf/WP/WP10-European-Ammunition.pdf Enumerating a state's demand and supply chains for small arms and light weapons ammunition remains a difficult undertaking. This is largely an outcome of many nations' reluctance to fully disclose information, together with poor accounting practices that hide the value of the data in aggregate totals. Through case studies of three states-Italy, France, and the Russian Federation-the working paper illustrates these challenges by detailing the most comprehensive picture possible of those countries' production, procurement, export, and, when possible, consumption of ammunition for small arms and light weapons. The resulting data not only provides a scale for the industry as a whole, but also reveals the realities of transparency and opaqueness in the ammunition market. For more information, please contact: Small Arms Survey 47 Avenue Blanc 1202 Geneva, Switzerland t +41 22 908 5779 f +41 22 732 2738 e sas@smallarmssurvey.org w www.smallarmssurvey.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:24:34 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: SMALL ARMS SURVEY: New Publication you wrote: >From: Small Arms Survey [mailto:noreply@smallarmssurvey.org] >Sent: July-21-10 4:19 AM >To: Small Arms Survey Mailing List >Subject: Surveying Europes Production and Procurement of Small Arms and >Light Weapons Ammunition: The Cases of Italy, France and the Russian >Federation > > >NEW Publication > >'Surveying Europe's Production and Procurement of Small Arms and Light >Weapons Ammunition: The Cases of Italy, France and the Russian Federation' > >Edited by Benjamin King > >To access this publication online, please go to: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files/sas/publications/w_papers_pdf/WP/WP10-European-Ammunition.pdf > >Enumerating a state's demand and supply chains for small arms and light >weapons ammunition remains a difficult undertaking. This is largely an >outcome of many nations' reluctance to fully disclose information, together with poor accounting practices that hide the value of the data in >aggregate totals. > >Through case studies of three states-Italy, France, and the Russian >Federation-the working paper illustrates these challenges by detailing the >most comprehensive picture possible of those countries' production, >procurement, export, and, when possible, consumption of ammunition for >small arms and light weapons. The resulting data not only provides a >scale for the industry as a whole, but also reveals the realities of >transparency and opaqueness in the ammunition market. > >For more information, please contact: ---- A review of the document leads to the CBC http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2008/04/15/hand-load.html This document confuses the legal civilian use of small arms and ammuntiion with 1) military use and 2) criminal use with 3) civilian use. Use of this document to support any restrictions on the sale of ammunition in Canada to civilians legally entitled to purchase ammo - or components of ammo is misleading at best and a lie at worst. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:23:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Crime numbers down again in 2009: StatsCan http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100720/national/statscan_crime Crime numbers down again in 2009: StatsCan Tue Jul 20, 8:30 PM By Stephanie Levitz, The Canadian Press OTTAWA - Crime might make for good television, but reality TV it isn't, according to figures released Tuesday by Statistics Canada. The overall numbers, rates and severity of crimes reported to police dropped again last year, continuing a 10-year trend. So the push by the Conservative government to convince Canadians that crime requires serious legislative attention is a prime-time drama with a script full of holes, say sociologists. "Perceptions of crime have nothing to do with actual crime," said Ronald Melchers, a professor of criminology at the University of Ottawa. "People don't get their information on whether crime is going up or going down from Statistics Canada, they get it from a whole series of very subjective measures including watching too much TV and listening to too many politicians." One of the areas that did see an increase last year was firearm offences, an issue that the Conservative government has in the sights of its tough-on-crime agenda. Since 2006, the government has passed a wide variety of crime-related legislation, ranging from cuts to the amount of credit a judge can give an offender for time served to stricter testing for drug-impaired driving. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews includes on his website a statement that communities are "increasingly under threat of gun, gang and drug violence.'' In his home province of Manitoba, that's true. Figures released Tuesday showed it reported the highest homicide rate among the provinces for the third straight year, although it was lower than the rates in Yukon and Nunavut. Manitoba was the only province that saw its rate of severe crime increase. Among census metropolitan areas, Abbotsford–Mission in British Columbia reported the highest homicide rate for the second year in a row. While it had only nine homicides, that meant 5.2 murders for every 100,000 people in the area. In contrast, Vancouver had 61 murders, but a homicide rate of 2.6 per 100,000 population. The entire region was locked in a bloody gang war early in 2009, and police credit stiffer sentences for firearms offences as one of the reasons they've managed to crack down on that gang war this year. "While we continue to achieve results in the fight against crime, our government feels these figures are still unacceptably high," Toews said in a statement Tuesday. "We are committed to giving law enforcement the tools they have been telling us they need to make our communities safe." Overall, Statistics Canada said nearly 2.2 million crimes were reported to police in 2009, about 43,000 fewer than in 2008. Car thefts, break-ins and mischief cases accounted for most of the decline. The crime rate, the measure of the volume of crime reported to police, fell 3 per cent last year and was 17 per cent lower than a decade ago. The crime severity index, which measures the seriousness of incidents reported, declined 4 per cent last year and was down 22 per cent from 1999. Violent crimes, from harassing phone calls to homicide, accounted for about 1 in 5 crimes in 2009. Police identified about 165,000 youth aged 12 to 17 accused of a criminal offence in 2009, a slight drop from 2008. Both the numbers and the seriousness of youth crimes have generally been declining since 2001. Some sociologists say one of the reasons for the overall decrease in crime is that there are fewer people under the age of 24 in society. Others say a decline in break-ins could be linked to goods just getting cheaper and less attractive to steal. "There are all kinds of things that can produce differences but at the same time there is a large component there we don't know about," said Vincent Sacco, a professor of sociology at Queen's University. Statistics Canada said its data are drawn from a census survey of all crimes known to, and substantiated by, police services, which uses a national standard of common categories and definitions. The crime severity index weighs the seriousness of offences in accordance with court sentences; the higher the average sentence, the higher the weight for that offence. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #967 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)