Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, July 30 2010 Volume 13 : Number 974 In this issue: "A thin blue line, doing nothing"-Fr. Raymond deSouza- Nat'l Post Larry James Fillo/"-Fr. Raymond deSouza Article Note. Former city girl is simply the best-St.Thomas Times-Journal-Ont. reason for not renewing [Re: "Police aiming for awareness..."] [chat] Reference hearing FW: VOICE OF THE OUTDOORS by Murray J. Martin for July 30 Re: [chat] Reference hearing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:17:08 -0600 (CST) From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "A thin blue line, doing nothing"-Fr. Raymond deSouza- Nat'l Post Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:21:23 -0600 To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/07/28/father-raymond-j-desouza-a-thin-blue-line-doing-nothing/#more-7976 *For those on dial-up, the article has been reproduced in full below. - -drgj ====================================================================== Should a crazed killer have been shot? Protecting citizen property? Investigating property crime? Fr. de Souza raises some interesting points. I'd ask if the police don't investigate break-ins anymore is it because they also don't think it is worthwhile given how lightly the courts will treat a convicted offender? Or is it that the police are so overwhelmed trying to deal with the amount of violent crime, that investigating property crime is no longer on the priority list? As for his question of what the Mounties could and should have done to stop the psychotic murderer, Vincent Li, from cannibalizing his victim on the bus( indignity to/interfering with human remains is a criminal offence in itself), the Mountie's in attendance should have done that. It would have also saved the onlookers more trauma from witnessing the increasingly macabre scene. Not easy for the Mounties either way. Fr. de Souza doesn't mention it but had the attending Mountie shot and killed Vincent Li then his victim's mother would not have to attend parole/release hearings every year begging that Li not be released. This is bizarre and unspeakably cruel to inflict on Tim Maclean's mother. That error of the 'system' isn't the fault of the police. If I'd been the Mountie outside the bus, I'm sure I'd be suffering from PTSD anyway but stopping Li would have been the better action both morally and in the long run psychologically, too. As for the right to protest being separate from mischief and vandalism, that's distinction is what good judgement is about. The G-20 didn't see anyone killed which is good, though how to do that and have people do their legitimate demonstration would be the ideal. Heck, there are some of us who would have marched in favour of the G8/G-20 meetings as being necessary to the world economies. :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Father Raymond J. deSouza: A thin blue line, doing nothing Father Raymond J. de Souza July 28, 2010 – 5:03 pm In the continuing debate over police tactics during the recent G20 summit in Toronto, the focus has been on whether civil liberties were violated in order to keep the peace. From a distance though, it seems to me that the more fundamental question is how the police were unable or unwilling to keep the peace — as least for those property owners whose windows were smashed, or those taxpayers who watched police cars abandoned and set aflame. Like most Canadians, I am inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the police, but doubting the capability of the police to protect persons and property is hard to avoid when faced with events such as the G20. With months of preparation and an extravagantly unlimited budget, the police were unable or unwilling to prevent the destruction of even their own property. The date and the time and the place and the tactics were known to all in advance. What would happen if there were to be an unexpected public disturbance, from an unknown source using unknown tactics? Would the police be able to cope? It is not a question for downtown Toronto alone. Here in Kingston, Ont. we lost our annual Queen’s University homecoming tradition after several years of a rowdy street party. The police knew a year in advance the exact hours and location of the unapproved revelry, but were unable to secure two city blocks for a space of eight hours. Or perhaps unwilling? Despite bringing in hundreds of extra cops, the expensive police operation consisted mostly of setting up a perimeter and observing the mayhem. Lacking the force reserved to the police, the university cancelled homecoming. There are consequences when the police do not effectively police. My colleague Lorne Gunter argued in these pages this week that the police do not investigate minor break-ins anymore, but just provide bureaucratic assistance for insurance claims. In the past five years, I have dealt with several break-ins, thefts and acts of vandalism. He is right: In no case did the police provide anything other than record-keeping over the phone. Is effective police protection a right of citizenship? It is contractually bought and paid for through tax dollars? Or is it a bonus that is to be enjoyed here and there, but not to be expected? Those questions were put before a court after the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) stopped providing protection to non-natives in the town of Caledonia — creating a certain official lawlessness. The OPP was taken to court for that unwillingness to protect, and the Ontario government settled the suit before a judgment could be rendered. Perhaps the government thought it unwise to answer the question of what exactly we can expect from the police. There is another case before the courts that merits a remembrance, as Friday is the second anniversary of the horrific murder of Tim McLean. He was the young man killed on an overnight Greyhound bus in Manitoba on July 30, 2008, stabbed repeatedly to death by Vincent Li, his psychotic seatmate. When the RCMP arrived, Mr. Li was alone on the bus with Mr. McLean, whom he had decapitated. The RCMP secured the bus — which had already been immobilized by the driver — and left Mr. McLean’s killer undisturbed for five hours. The killer then proceeded to cannibalize his victim. The police did not stop the defiling of the body, even though they had lethal force at their disposal and the killer was alone. They simply waited until the Mr. Li left the bus voluntarily. Last Friday, two passengers on that bus filed suit against the RCMP, arguing that witnessing what the RCMP permitted to take place caused them irreparable harm. It is a difficult time for our police forces. The RCMP Commissioner is under fire from his own senior officers. The Air India inquiry exposed a deeply flawed investigation. The Robert Dziekanski case revealed officers who lied to prosecutors about their role in his death at the Vancouver airport in 2007. Then there are the questions about the G20. Yet all those matters involve what the police did, and did poorly. But equally serious are the cases where the police do nothing when something urgently needs to be done. Spare a thought for Tim McLean on Friday. And do not forget the police who failed him. National Post http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/07/28/father-raymond-j-desouza-a-thin-blue-line-doing-nothing/#comments - -- Letter to the Editor A note on reader comments: Your comments are welcomed. We accept new comments for 24 hours after the initial posting of most entries. Editor: Kelly McParland (e-mail) kmcparland@nationalpost.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, July 29, 2010 4:45 pm From: "David R.G. Jordan" Subject: Larry James Fillo/"-Fr. Raymond deSouza Article Note. From Larry James Fillo Sent Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:17 pm To undisclosed-recipients: ; Subject "A thin blue line, doing nothing"-Fr. Raymond deSouza- Nat'l Post Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:21:23 -0600 To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Folks I accidentally left a blank line in Larry's article header, therefore the article came up showing as; To undisclosed-recipients: ; Any comments on Larry's Submission will come directly back to the CFD. There will be no issues or problems with that. And you should have received his full submission with no other problems unless it ends up trapped in your SPAM filters, or it gets dumped by them for what ever reason(?). Therefore if you didn't get the post from Larry, please check in your SPANM filters first and if it's still missing I can either repost it back to everybody or to people individually. I will wait until close to my usual book-off time at around 24:00hrs to see if and how many requests that have come in *to me* at this addie, before I'll either repost it, or I'll just resend it out from my home addie here, to those that lost or didn't receive it. My apologies. CFD Moderator-DRGJ "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities." - - Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:48:04 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Former city girl is simply the best-St.Thomas Times-Journal-Ont. Former city girl is simply the best Posted By PATRICK BRENNAN - - TIMES-JOURNAL Updated 10 days ago http://www.stthomastimesjournal.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2674083&auth=PATRICK%20BRENNAN%20TIMES-JOURNAL Jessica Hornby is the best woman in Canada doing what she loves to do. These days, the former St. Thomas resident has every reason to be proud. At 23, she's the Women's National Air Rifle champion, a title she earned July 5 at the Canadian Small Bore Rifle Championships, held at Beachburg, southeast of Pembroke. "I've been shooting since I was nine," she said, recalling her family and childhood days in St. Thomas. Mastering marksmanship with an air rifle is a passion she holds so deeply it lead her to secure a four-year scholarship at the University of Mississippi. She graduated in 2009 with a degree in insurance and risk management. Hornby was awarded a scholarship to compete on the National Women's Rifle Team. "In my senior year, I was team captain," she said. She earned the National Student Athletic Award for combining a high grade point average with athletic achievement. Hornby returned to St. Thomas after completing her scholarship and resumed training under coaches Richard Lanning and Elaine Brown, of the East Elgin Sportsmen's Association. Since coming back to Canada, she's competed in three world cups, two in Fort Benning, Georgia, and one in Munich, Germany. She's also married and moved to London where she works as an insurance adjuster. "The opportunities are that you can excel in this sport and represent Canada," she said. Her consistent performances have put her back on Canada's national team. Hornby shoots her air rifle from 10 metres. The lead pellets must hit a target about the size of a glass coaster. "I want this every time," she said, pointing to the bullseye part of the target. Anything outside of that is considered a lesser achievement in marksmanship. To get that consistency, Hornby said she has to shoot in a 10-second window between breaths if she's going to remain perfectly still before pulling the trigger. At the Beachburg competition, Hornby was paired with two Ontario competitors to make up Team Ontario. Together, they set a women's team record and won gold. Her appearance at the competition was hanicapped by a small personal crisis before she left home. Her purse, left in a friend's car, was stolen on Canada Day. Gone were her passport, other personal identification and credit cards. As part of the complications, she had accounts frozen and had to scramble to get replacement ID in time for the tournament. "It added some stress, but I was able to ignore it," she said. At Beachburg, she qualified as one of the top eight shooters. "I went into the finals in first place and came out in first place," she said. As an indication of how tight the competition was, she said from first to fifth place, no one was any more than one point behind the person ahead of them. "It was so hot in the arena," she said. "You had to overcome the heat. I just kept my game face and got first place." "I was pretty serious competing in this sport sine I was 14. Since then, I've lived and breathed shooting." She's also reminded how expensive the sport is. Her rifle, custom made in Germany, cost $3,500. Made-to- measure canvass suits worn on the range are expensive as are special shoes, accessories and choosing which of many competitions to attend around the world. - -- -- Letter To The Editor To be considered for publication, all letters must include the writer's full name, address and telephone number for verification purposes. Only your name and the city/town where you live will be published. Sun Media respects your privacy. By posting your Letter To The Editor you give us permission to post and publish your name, city, and comments on our Web page and in the editorial/comment section of our newspaper. If you elect to agree to display your e-mail address it will be posted along with the other information you provide. Please keep your comments to a maximum of 500 words. http://www.stthomastimesjournal.com/feedback1/LetterToEditor.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:31:26 -0400 From: "healinghands1" Subject: reason for not renewing [Re: "Police aiming for awareness..."] Wyatt said firearms owners receive ample notification of when licences are about to expire, so there is no excuse for not renewing. Maybe people don't feel they need the governments permission to do something they always did before without government permission. Lastly with the clear abuse of authority taking place under the firearms act, people are disinclined to become the next victims of the canadian police state, and since the g20, canadians now know we are in a police state. So don't hold tour breath waiting for people to register. - -- -- Ref: "Police aiming for awareness among gun owners" - Northernlife.ca Northernlife.ca Jul 28, 2010 By Jenny Jelen - Sudbury Northern Life Staff http://www.northernlife.ca/news/policeandCourt/2010/07/guns290710.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, July 30, 2010 9:36 am From: "bletchleypark" Subject: [chat] Reference hearing To All: Does anyone know of a case whereby an individual was forced to attend a reference hearing in order to continue to possess their firearm licence and their firearms when the individual in question did not breach any of the Firearms Acts and no charges under the C.C.C. were laid? The Reference Hearing being initiated by a local CFO based solely on his disapproval of the individual, in his personal opinion, of possessing firearms. Thanks in advance. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, July 30, 2010 9:40 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: FW: VOICE OF THE OUTDOORS by Murray J. Martin for July 30 Forwarded with permission of the author. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Canadian Outdoor Specialists-Murray & Lisa Martin Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 4:54 PM Subject: VOICE OF THE OUTDOORS by Murray J. Martin for July 30 VOICE OF THE OUTDOORS by Murray J. Martin   Liberal long Gun Register Will Effect First Nation Traditional Way Of Life Igy's Liberal Party Stand to retain the Long Gun Registry could effect the First Nation's Traditional Way Of Life, according to one court  document `I have with regards to a court action brought on by a Lawyer  for the Nunavut Tunngavik. It all started back in 2003 when Judge Robert Kikpatrick granted an injunction against the registry that dealt with a specific case he was involved in Nunavut. Another judge made a similar statement involving a long gun case  in Lqaluit.   It has all comes  down to the third vote in September on abolishing the Long Gun Register, a registry  that in no way would have any effect what so ever on the criminal element in Canada. It is a simple case that criminals do not register their guns. What Igy and his followers should come up with is one single known criminal that has registered their guns.   The decision under the court injunction will hold until the 3rd vote on the registry takes place in September of 2010. If the Long Gun Registry is abolished the Lawyer for the Nunavut Tunngavik will drop their legal suit against the Government. If by some chance Igy's people win the vote and the wasteful registry is not abolished, the Nunavut Tunngavik challenge will go to court and this could end up with all  First Nations putting a challenge to the Liberal's Long gun Registry. If the First nations win their challenge then we  would have a  case point in law that could open for all Canadians to challenge the law. If the  vote ( although being a private members bill) could be considered a confidence vote, we would have an election and the election would have to be focused on Igys dictatorial decision to whip his followers to vote as he has commanded and not as the members ( especially those of the northern portions of Canada) constituency have told their members how they wished to be represented.    What the more than a billion dollar registry states ,is that all people owning Long guns ( hunting guns) must register their firearms.  There is in place  a law that all restricted  firearms such as pistols, as well as prohibited firearms have to be registered  and that has been in effect since the late 30s, and that in no way is part of the long gun registry.  It is law abiding hunters and target shooters  that own these guns. Scrapping the long gun registry in no way what so ever effects the criminal element. The argument is the long gun register brought in by previous  liberal governments that is costing  billions of our money when the money would be better spent in  hiring more police officers and  giving them the money the need to  do the job they are trusted with and that is protecting you and I from criminals.   GREAT EXPERIENCE AT "PARK DAY" The Yukon Fish and Game Association took part in the Park Day held  down at the SS Klondike. Our plan was to introduce  fly casting and spin casting to the general public. I came away from the afternoon feeling a better man for the part I played in the event. While Dennis Zimmerman was teaching fly casting to the adults, I was kept busy by the youngsters that wanted to learn the art of spin casting One  young First Nation  youngster about 10 years old who's life was apparently buried in computer games  asked if he could play this game of  "Skish". is very big  in the  states as well as in central Canada but few ever hear of it up here in the true north. It is comprised of a number of targets  set out in the open and up to about 50 yards.  These are the targets  you have to hit on a point system.   This  youngster never had a  fishing rod in his hands before. His life centered around  computer games. I showed him the overhead cast, how to hold the reel and control the line,. Within minutes he was casting ,getting better each time. Then he started to come exceptionally close to the 30 yard target. He kept casting until his wrist hurt so I told him to take a rest. later in the afternoon he was back with his mother and I was further teaching them  both until I no longer had to concentrate on the young lad as he was casting as good as many experienced fishermen .Then he turned to his mom and told her  she had to buy a rod and reel for both of them so they could play this new game together. Next the little boy shook my hand and thanked me. "This old hard rock said that it was my pleaser and I turned away as I had a tear in my eye and  pretended I had something to do back at the trailer. When you leave this old earth you don't have to leave a big house, a big car or loads of money to a youngster. Put a fishing rod in their hand, teach them how to cast, how to catch a fish, how to clean and  fillet their prize fish and how to cook that fish  and you have left them a heritage that no money I see it.   Yukon Fish and Game Association will be teaching fly casting as well as fly tying. Call the Yukon Fish and Game Association for more information on this event. Oh yes, call me Murray not Mr. Martin. Mr. Martin is reserved for my father.   Power Energy will kill wildlife Before we all get upset with any power authority across Canada for putting dams in the river, that effect the fish ,  building wind turbines that kill bats and birds, remember that it is we who need the electric power that these man made instruments of death are working for. The larger the population  the larger the demand for energy and it is hard to avoid the flooding, the blockage of fish runs or those height towering wind turbines that  are putting out  electricity for  the  expanding human demands to live the life of luxury. Here  some stats to consider. The more energy we use  the more bats and birds will be killed so we should cut our use of  electric power as much as possible. According to stats recorded at Canada's second larges wind farm, on Wolf Island Eco-Power Centre, in the first eight months of operation, almost two thousand birds and bats were killed by the giant wind turbines of which 33 bird species and  five bat species were found. What I find most interesting is that while the birds are being killed by the blades, on the other hand,(which they found in British Columbia turbine field) many bats were killed due to the change in air pressure around the spinning turbines that caused the bats to hemorrhage internally. This all makes one is the new bat disease that has hit North America being the White Nose Fungus. This is killing of thousands of  bats in North America and the disease is spreading into the western parts of north America. How long can the bat survive until we just  add it to the extinct species of the world? Remember, wildlife are the natural health barometer for human life!   Make sure you read next weeks Fish recipe booklet in my Friday the 6th of August. If you want to pick up  some great fish recipes, read my next weeks column as we will be announcing the release of over 30 great fish cooking recipes and batter ideas that will be found in the Yukon Fish and only two places you will be able to pick them up. The cost of printing has been picked up by SPORTS NORTH, the greatest fishing tackle store north of sixty that is located at 408 Baxter Street here in Whitehorse. The Yukon Fish and Game Association  certainly wish to express their appreciation for SPORTS NORTH  support in this  project.   The next recipe booklet in the planning is for big  and  small game  top cooking recipes. If you have a proven recipe and would like it to be included, forward it  to me and I will give you  the credit for the submission. If you have a store that sells outdoors equipment for hunting and would like to support The Yukon Fish and Game Big  and Small Game Recipe Booklet, we will give you a number of pages of advertisement in the booklet. My e-mail is at the end of the column.   WHO IS THE TOP GUN IN THE YUKON ? Next weeks column I will have some fellows who lay claim to being the Yukon's Top Guns. These are fellows that have  journeyed outside of the Yukon to shoot targets at a tournament that includes targets out at the  one thousand yard range. Who are they? Read  next weeks column to  find out just who is the top gun in the Yukon.   Answer to last weeks question  : What is the  largest member of the trout family. The answer is the lake Trout. They will hit the scales at  forty pounds. One of the most famouse places for the Lake trout is Atlin lake and of  course the best guide  to be found in Atlan is Garry Cook.  Garry is well known for his guiding experience on Lake Atlin and I would highly recommend him.He has a long time experience with lake trout as he was one of Ontario's top guides on Lake Simcoe in the heart of Central Ontario.   Quote of the week: A government, even in it's best state, is but a necessary evil; in it's worst state, an intolerble one.. Thomas Pain.. Common Sense.. and of course Ill say" Amen To That Brother!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:00:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: [chat] Reference hearing - --- On Fri, 7/30/10, bletchleypark wrote: > From: bletchleypark > Subject: [chat] Reference hearing > To: "canadian firearms chat" > Received: Friday, July 30, 2010, 11:41 AM > > To All: > > Does anyone know of a case whereby an individual was forced > to attend a reference hearing in order to continue to possess > their firearm licence and their firearms when the individual > in question did not breach any of the Firearms Acts and no > charges under the C.C.C. were laid? The Reference Hearing being > initiated by a local CFO based solely on his disapproval of > the individual, in his personal opinion, of possessing > firearms. > > Thanks in advance. > > Peter Peter: As far as procedure goes, the Firearms Officer has to do something like revoke your license before a FA s 74 hearing can be initiated - the onus of which is upon *you*. The FO has to send you a notice in writing, stating the reasons for the revocation, and include copies of FA s 74 so you can initiate proceedings if you so choose. The only other thing I can think of is the FO/PC is initiating a "Discretionary Prohibition Order" hearing, under CCC s 111: 111. (1) A peace officer, firearms officer or chief firearms officer may apply to a provincial court judge for an order prohibiting a person from possessing any firearm, crossbow, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition or explosive substance, or all such things, where the peace officer, firearms officer or chief firearms officer believes on reasonable grounds that it is not desirable in the interests of the safety of the person against whom the order is sought or of any other person that the person against whom the order is sought should possess any such thing. (2) On receipt of an application made under subsection (1), the provincial court judge shall fix a date for the hearing of the application and direct that notice of the hearing be given, in such manner as the provincial court judge may specify, to the person against whom the order is sought. (3) Subject to subsection (4), at the hearing of an application made under subsection (1), the provincial court judge shall hear all relevant evidence presented by or on behalf of the applicant and the person against whom the order is sought. (4) A provincial court judge may proceed ex parte to hear and determine an application made under subsection (1) in the absence of the person against whom the order is sought in the same circumstances as those in which a summary conviction court may, under Part XXVII, proceed with a trial in the absence of the defendant. [there are 11 sections to CCC 111, but you get the gist] As for the outcome of such hearings, I don't recall ever seeing one; you could try searching on CANLII for them, but I think that most of them wouldn't be "deposited" for publication. Bruce ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #974 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)