Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, August 22 2010 Volume 14 : Number 003 In this issue: RCMP Chief Superintendent Pierre Perron Biography A Mountie Muzzled Helena Guergis vote on rgistry Re: BCWF ALERT #72/2010: Saving the Registry Letter to Toronto Sun (just sent) ... I got bounced She isn't terrified of guns Re: 92% Of Beat Cops Re: I got bounced Re: I got bounced Re: I got bounced Letter to Globe (just sent) Calgary Sun - Column - Cops lob a few rounds at gun registry Calgary Sun Comments Re: Calgary Sun Comments CALGARY SUN COLUMN: Cops lob a few rounds at gun registry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, August 21, 2010 10:54 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: RCMP Chief Superintendent Pierre Perron Biography Cc: "OUTDOORS CAUCUS ASSOCIATION" NATIONAL POST - AUGUST 21, 2010 'Not one iota of truth' Ben Gelinas, Postmedia News · Saturday, Aug. 21, 2010 An emotional RCMP Commissioner yesterday vehemently denied reports the director-general of the national firearms program was removed due to Conservative political pressure, calling such claims "fiction." It was announced on Wednesday that a new director-general -- RCMP Chief Superintendent Pierre Perron -- had been named to replace Chief Superintendent Marty Cheliak, removed from the post earlier in the week http://www.nationalpost.com:80/news/canada/toronto/iota+truth/3427132/story.html - ------ Chief Superintendent Pierre Perron Royal Canadian Mounted Police Chief Superintendent Pierre Perron joined the RCMP in 1982. Following recruit training he was posted to detachments in Alberta ("K" Division) where he served in general duty, highway patrol, and general investigation. In 1990, he was posted to the National Security Investigations Section in the National Capital Region. He was posted in 1993 to the Criminal Intelligence Branch in "A" Division, based in Ottawa where he worked on several joint forces operations investigating various organized crime groups. During that period, he was seconded to the Ottawa Police Major Crime and Homicide Squad for a period of two years. Following a two year period in Human Resources and one year within the Central Region Audit section, he was commissioned in 2000 and took on responsibility for the security of the Prime Minister of Canada. In 2003, he assumed the position of Officer in Charge (OIC), National Security Operations Branch, at RCMP Headquarters. In 2005, he was promoted to the rank of Superintendent and was responsible for the criminal intelligence, national security investigation, immigration and sensitive investigation section as well as the war crimes and crimes against humanity programs as Division Intelligence Officer and National Security Program Officer. In early 2007, he was appointed to serve as a senior advisor within the Security and Intelligence Secretariat of the Privy Council Office (PCO) under the direction of the National Security Advisor. Later in 2007, Chief Superintendent Perron assumed the position of Director General of the Criminal Intelligence Program with responsibility to oversee all aspects of the production of criminal intelligence in support of RCMP operations and strategic priorities. ******* Surintendant principal Pierre Perron Renseignements criminels Gendarmerie royale du Canada Le surintendant principal Pierre Perron est entré au service de la GRC en 1982. Après sa formation de recrue, il a été affecté à des détachements en Alberta (Division K) où il a travaillé aux services généraux, à la patrouille routière et aux enquêtes générales. En 1990, il est passé à la Section des enquêtes relatives à la sécurité nationale, dans la région de la capitale nationale. En 1993, il a été affecté à la Division des renseignements criminels, Division A, située à Ottawa, et a participé à bon nombre d'opérations policières conjuguées enquêtant sur divers groupes du crime organisé. Pendant cette période, il a été en détachement à la section des crimes graves et brigade criminelle du service de police d'Ottawa pour une période de deux ans. Après deux ans aux Ressources humaines et un an au sein de l'Équipe de vérification de la Région du Centre, il a été nommé en 2000 officier responsable de la sécurité du Premier ministre du Canada. En 2003, il a accédé au poste d'officier responsable (OR) de la Sous-direction des opérations de sécurité nationale au quartier général de la GRC. En 2005, il a été promu au rang de surintendant et il était, en qualité d'agent de renseignement divisionnaire et agent de la sécurité nationale, responsable du renseignement de sécurité, des enquêtes relatives à la sécurité nationale, des enquêtes délicates et en matière d'immigration ainsi que des programmes de lutte contre la criminalité et les crimes de guerre. Au début de 2007, il a été nommé conseiller principal au Secrétariat de la sécurité et du renseignement au Bureau du Conseil privé et il relevait du conseiller pour la sécurité nationale. Plus tard en 2007, le surintendant principal Perron est entré en fonction au poste de directeur général, Programme des renseignements criminels, où il est chargé de surveiller tous les aspects de la production de renseignements criminels à l'appui des opérations et des priorités stratégiques de la GRC. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:38:50 -0400 From: "enigma1" Subject: A Mountie Muzzled Mr. Jasper: Your submission to the Digest regarding the reassignment of Chief Supt. Marty Cheliak raises some interesting questions. The Canadian firearms community, through a constant bombardment from the media propaganda machine, has been well informed that Mr. Harper's true intension regarding this matter may be politically motivated. I derive pleasure from noting that some political bias may have fallen on our side of the line to our collective benefit. However, you continue, by this post, to press passage of the regurgitated lies and falsehoods of the registry's value and effectiveness. The very same issues, interestingly perhaps, that are so fondly reiterated by devious individuals and organizations whose true agenda is to eventually remove all firearms from the law abiding. I pose these questions to you. What purpose do you seek to achieve? Why do you bother to submit what our detractors postulate ad nauseam? Do you believe that the Registry has merit and should be retained? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:57:11 -0400 From: Subject: Helena Guergis vote on rgistry The Conservatives have treated her badly. I hope she does not in turn try to spite harper and vote for the registry just to stab him. Every shooter on this digest needs to send her an email and call, asking her to shut this waste of taxpayers money down. Start calling boys and girls the vote will be a nail biter! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 17:01:39 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: BCWF ALERT #72/2010: Saving the Registry - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest" Cc: "OUTDOORS CAUCUS ASSOCIATION" Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 5:58 AM Subject: FW: BCWF ALERT #72/2010: Saving the Registry > From: John B. Holdstock > jbholdstock@shawcable.com > Sent: August-21-10 9:14 AM > To: John B. Holdstock > Subject: BCWF ALERT #72/2010: Saving the Registry > > Globe & Mail - August 18, 2010 > > Saving the Registry by Jane Taber > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/gun-registry-math-frustrates-ndp-justice-critic/article1677529/ Joe Comartin has been counting all summer and he’s not sure the numbers are there to save the controversial long-gun registry. He figures he’s three MPs shy of a win. Just cut off the funds due to lack of resources that`ll shut it down down, through the back door. ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 18:26:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to Toronto Sun (just sent) ... Cop survey backs gun registry scrap ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, I read with interest that 91.6% of front line police personnel polled would scrap the registry, but that doesn't explain why the Chiefs are so out of touch with their officers. I then discovered that the CACP's ethics commissioner resigned in April 2009 over a deemed conflict of interest when the CACP accepted significant financial contributions from Taser International, and also from the firm providing computer services to the firearms registry (CGI). I suppose some consolation can be had from the Chief's steadfast support of their financial sponsors, if not their rank and file subordinates. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 19:39:06 -0400 From: Subject: I got bounced Seems my rant on Tamils got me bounced to chat. I can understand, this is a firearms related board. So no big deal. Now down to firearms/. When will CSSA man up and tell us RFC people and members what their specific stand is on licensing. In hear nary a peep. Perhaps CSSA is similar to NFA , with the names like the conservative and liberals easily interchangeable CLOG Do tell us we want to know. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, August 21, 2010 7:05 pm From: "M.J. Ackermann, MD" Subject: She isn't terrified of guns hey Wendy... Please explain to this girl and her family why she should remain helpless while under attack while she waits the rest of her life for the cops to bring a gun to her defense. http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=218863&page=3 Or perhaps Mayor Miller would like to offer his opinion? - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) Rural Family Physician, Sherbrooke, NS Canada mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca "Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst". ** Please always use BCC and erase appended address lists when forwarding or sending to groups ** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 23:04:09 -0600 From: "avon brown" Subject: Re: 92% Of Beat Cops Hello To All: Unfortunately it means nothing you'll probably never hear it nationally and worse yet when the LIberals get back...which they will....They will use it as an excuse to further stomp our rights into the mud as the law wasn't strict enough. As long as GTA and Quebec decide who will rule us we are lost. That's why I'm a firm believer int the Republic Of Western Canada. I'm not sure if we could make it but one thing I am sure of the rest of Canada would fail under the current system we live in. There would be NO "Have Provinces" Quebec would collapse under it's Socialist regime and the Maritimes would finally rebel against the nanny state and stand on their own two feet as they would have no choice. I love this country. I have relatives who fought and died on behalf of it. But IMHO like a house with mold sometimes you have to tear the house down and start over. Avon Brown ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 08:36:48 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: I got bounced WHOCARES ? IF EVERYONE JUST DROPS THEIR MEMBERSHIP THEY WILL COME CALLING TO US. ED/ON - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: I got bounced > Seems my rant on Tamils got me bounced to chat. I can understand, this is > a firearms related board. So no big deal. > > Now down to firearms/. > > When will CSSA man up and tell us RFC people and members what their > specific stand is on licensing. In hear nary a peep. Perhaps CSSA is > similar to NFA , with the names like the conservative and liberals easily > interchangeable CLOG > > Do tell us we want to know. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 06:13:38 -0700 From: Christopher di Armani Subject: Re: I got bounced On 2010-08-22 5:36 AM, mred wrote: > WHO CARES ? IF EVERYONE JUST DROPS THEIR MEMBERSHIP THEY WILL COME CALLING TO US. > ED/ON "If everyone just drops their membership".... what an awesome plan, *especially* for the NFA. "Not F***ing Accountable", now more than ever. - -- Yours in Liberty, Christopher di Armani christopher@diArmani.com http://www.diArmani.com Check out the latest from Katey Montague at http://www.YouTube.com/KateysFirearmsFacts ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 10:03:00 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: I got bounced - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher di Armani" To: Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:13 AM Subject: Re: I got bounced > "If everyone just drops their membership".... what an awesome plan, > *especially* for the NFA. "Not F***ing Accountable", now more than ever. > > -- > > Yours in Liberty, > > Christopher di Armani > christopher@diArmani.com > http://www.diArmani.com > > Check out the latest from Katey Montague at > http://www.YouTube.com/KateysFirearmsFacts And what would they be without annual subscriptions ? NOTHING for without the money that brings in they are nothing. ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:46:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to Globe (just sent) Arm's length and long guns ... (fwd) Dear Phil, While it is true that the RCMP have internal challenges, I believe that Marty Cheliak's removal from the registry doesn't even make the radar when compared to the CACP's egregious behaviour. Your editorial hit upon the crux of the issue, however when you state that "police officers ought to have the right to voice an informed opinion on this contentious issue". In your own paper on April 8, 2009 Christie Blatchford wrote about the resignation of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police ethics advisor Dr. Jones, partly over a breach in which the Chiefs accepted financial sponsorship from the firm which delivers computer services to the registry (CGI). No wonder then that the Chiefs support the registry, being the political animals that they are, they are naturally attracted to sponsorships. A bigger problem looms from the implication that the Chiefs are speaking on behalf of the rank and file police officers when they are not. This week, a news item not reported in the Globe indicated that in a poll taken in a law enforcement magazine, that fully 2,410 officers of a total of 2,631 respondents are against the registry. If 91.6% of officers who responded to the poll are against the registry, why has this only just come to light? Is it because the Chiefs are muzzling the the rank and file in order to maintain their cushy sponsorships? To me, *THOSE* are the real questions. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk Please find supporting information attached. April 8, 2009 globe article CSSA press release ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 08:58:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Calgary Sun - Column - Cops lob a few rounds at gun registry http://www.calgarysun.com/comment/columnists/ian_robinson/2010/08/21/1509946.html Cops lob a few rounds at gun registry By IAN ROBINSON, Calgary Sun The gun registry — which may be staggering toward an entirely appropriate, ignominious end in September in the House of Commons — is about more than a national firearms policy. And, just as an aside, are there any words in combination that ought to frighten us more than “national policy?” OK, when your personal physician says: “You’re going to feel some pressure,” that’s worse, because “pressure” is doctor code for “I’m going to wear you like a hand puppet for a minute or two.” There’s a reason Kermit the Frog’s voice is so strained. But I digress. It’s about more than the shade of our necks, about city versus country, about those who like supermarket meat and those who won’t eat anything that they haven’t shot themselves. Not to mention those sad, pallid folks who look like Twilight extras wearing the “Meat Is Murder” tees and who’d like to ban steak knives. It’s about the persistence of bad ideas in defiance of facts. It’s about isn’t it pretty to think so versus reality and it’s about the tension between the fragile rights of a free people versus the gradual encroachment of government. As the Tories stealth campaign to kill the registry, under the guise of a private member’s bill, approaches its third vote, we’re beginning to hear some interesting counter-cultural voices on the matter. Calgary Police Chief Rick Hanson — who’ll be attending the Canadian Chiefs of Police convention in Edmonton starting Sunday where, no doubt we’ll hear an impassioned save-the-registry plea — has taken a courageous position against the registry. While the organization alleged to represent front-line cops, the Canadian Police Association, is an ardent supporter of the registry, another Alberta cop offers an alternative voice. Edmonton cop Const. Randy Kuntz used a police magazine to survey officers across the country on the issue of the gun registry. He got 2,631 replies and 2,410 of them said the gun registry is useless as a crime fighting tool. Further, many of them believed it lulled cops into a false sense of security and was therefore a safety risk. Kuntz, an officer whose career has included work in intelligence and cold-case homicide, demolishes a number of myths used in support of the gun registry. Cops use it thousands of times a day, we’re told. If it wasn’t working, if it wasn’t good for police, why would they be using it thousands of times a day? Apparently, when calls come in to police dispatchers, inquiries to the firearms registry are automated. They aren’t initiated by officers in the field. They’re initiated by a computer program. And the information yielded by the database inquiry, Kuntz notes, isn’t exactly useful. If it comes back saying no one in the home has a firearms licence, it doesn’t mean there aren’t any weapons in the home. Why would criminals — who make their living breaking the law — display slavish respect to this one law? If they’re dealing drugs and using handguns to adjudicate their disputes, chances are they didn’t buy them legally. And a firearms licence, even if the person doesn’t own a firearm, allows its holder to legally borrow a firearm from someone who does. Again, not going to come up on the database. “It’s a huge mistake on the police officer’s part, relying on a database for your safety. It’s ridiculous,” says Kuntz. Our crusading Auditor General, Sheila Fraser, reported on the gun registry and told the public the Canadian Firearms Centre couldn’t provide “evidence-based outcomes” that it works. You’d think that if the gun registry was saving the lives of cops or Canadians, they’d, I dunno, keep track of that kind of stuff. The fact that they haven’t speaks volumes. And so too do a couple of Alberta cops. ian.robinson@sunmedia.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 09:16:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Calgary Sun Comments http://www.calgarysun.com/comment/letters/2010/08/21/15099506.html Don’t live in fear Re: Mike Cummings Aug. 15 letter. I fail to see how one should live one’s life in fear of something tragic happening — so much so that carrying or owning a gun is necessary. Yes, criminals are out there. Do you need to be worried about them harming you? No. You could die in a car wreck, or fall off a bridge. Does this mean we need to fear walking or driving? Of course not. How about preventative measures Mike? Lock your door, install a security system, maybe some motion-sensing lights, develop good relations with your neighbours so they “have your back.” He asks if someone could live with themselves if their children were raped while they are helpless to do anything sans gun. What if he accidentally shot his child or wife? The spectrum of defence is large and by no means does any non-drug dealer or hunter need to carry a gun for protection of their life. Try putting a big sign out front that reads “POLICE BBQ AROUND BACK.” Johnny Barker (Great idea, but now you’ve tipped off the crooks.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 12:47:58 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Calgary Sun Comments - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Mills" To: Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:16 PM Subject: Calgary Sun Comments http://www.calgarysun.com/comment/letters/2010/08/21/15099506.html > The spectrum of defence is large and by no means does any non-drug dealer > or hunter need to carry a gun for protection of their life. Try putting a > big sign out front that reads “POLICE BBQ AROUND BACK.” > > Johnny Barker > (Great idea, but now you’ve tipped off the crooks.) OR for you anti-gun nuts ???,just put up a sign in your front window that says "this is a gun free home ".. ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Sun, August 22, 2010 11:09 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: CALGARY SUN COLUMN: Cops lob a few rounds at gun registry CALGARY SUN - AUGUST 22, 2010 Cops lob a few rounds at gun registry By IAN ROBINSON, CALGARY SUN http://www.calgarysun.com/comment/columnists/ian_robinson/2010/08/21/15099546.html The gun registry - which may be staggering toward an entirely appropriate, ignominious end in September in the House of Commons - is about more than a national firearms policy. And, just as an aside, are there any words in combination that ought to frighten us more than "national policy?" OK, when your personal physician says: "You're going to feel some pressure," that's worse, because "pressure" is doctor code for "I'm going to wear you like a hand puppet for a minute or two." There's a reason Kermit the Frog's voice is so strained. But I digress. It's about more than the shade of our necks, about city versus country, about those who like supermarket meat and those who won't eat anything that they haven't shot themselves. Not to mention those sad, pallid folks who look like Twilight extras wearing the "Meat Is Murder" tees and who'd like to ban steak knives. It's about the persistence of bad ideas in defiance of facts. It's about isn't it pretty to think so versus reality and it's about the tension between the fragile rights of a free people versus the gradual encroachment of government. As the Tories stealth campaign to kill the registry, under the guise of a private member's bill, approaches its third vote, we're beginning to hear some interesting counter-cultural voices on the matter. Calgary Police Chief Rick Hanson - who'll be attending the Canadian Chiefs of Police convention in Edmonton starting Sunday where, no doubt we'll hear an impassioned save-the-registry plea - has taken a courageous position against the registry. While the organization alleged to represent front-line cops, the Canadian Police Association, is an ardent supporter of the registry, another Alberta cop offers an alternative voice. Edmonton cop Const. Randy Kuntz used a police magazine to survey officers across the country on the issue of the gun registry. He got 2,631 replies and 2,410 of them said the gun registry is useless as a crime fighting tool. Further, many of them believed it lulled cops into a false sense of security and was therefore a safety risk. Kuntz, an officer whose career has included work in intelligence and cold-case homicide, demolishes a number of myths used in support of the gun registry. Cops use it thousands of times a day, we're told. If it wasn't working, if it wasn't good for police, why would they be using it thousands of times a day? Apparently, when calls come in to police dispatchers, inquiries to the firearms registry are automated. They aren't initiated by officers in the field. They're initiated by a computer program. And the information yielded by the database inquiry, Kuntz notes, isn't exactly useful. If it comes back saying no one in the home has a firearms licence, it doesn't mean there aren't any weapons in the home. Why would criminals - who make their living breaking the law - display slavish respect to this one law? If they're dealing drugs and using handguns to adjudicate their disputes, chances are they didn't buy them legally. And a firearms licence, even if the person doesn't own a firearm, allows its holder to legally borrow a firearm from someone who does. Again, not going to come up on the database. "It's a huge mistake on the police officer's part, relying on a database for your safety. It's ridiculous," says Kuntz. Our crusading Auditor General, Sheila Fraser, reported on the gun registry and told the public the Canadian Firearms Centre couldn't provide "evidence-based outcomes" that it works. You'd think that if the gun registry was saving the lives of cops or Canadians, they'd, I dunno, keep track of that kind of stuff. The fact that they haven't speaks volumes. And so too do a couple of Alberta cops. ian.robinson@sunmedia.ca Letters to the Editor callet@calgarysun.com - -------------------------------------- MAY 31, 2006 - AUDITOR GENERAL: 5,000 HITS A DAY AN INDICATOR OF ACTIVITY - NOT EFFECTIVENESS http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/2006_new/71.htm ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #1003 ************************************ Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)