Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, September 28 2010 Volume 14 : Number 102 In this issue: Re: Time to pack it in? Any body - But! *NFR* Gun registry savages good citizens Men convicted in Mountie slayings lose appeal Vic Toews speaking for 'all gun owners' in Canada HAMILTON SPECTATOR: Firebombs destroy Flamborough home Wildlife Federation ready to fight gun registry all over again "1 in 4 Canadians victim of crime"-StatsCan Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #101 Re: Gun registry savages good citizens Re: Men convicted in Mountie slayings lose appeal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:54:03 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Time to pack it in? Bruce wrote: > Time to pack it in? > > I'm wondering if the time has come for me to pack it all in. > > The Supreme Court's refusal to hear the Montague case, the dirty tactics > of the anti-gun extremists leading up to the vote, and the vote itself, > among other things, have me thinking if it's worth all the effort I put > into this. It probably isn't; there are political forces at work beyond the will of us mere mortals. Ya gotta have other interests beyond gun politics or you'll end up in a loony farm. Re Montague and the SCC; re-read the SCC's rationale for accepting Leaves to Appeal. Gaining access to the SCC was never assured and should never have been touted. We gotta learn that we can't dictate how the courts will respond. We gotta learn to operate by the standard rules of the game - because the risks of getting picked-off increase with 'my way or the highway' stuff. Dirty tactics by anti-gun forces, , , How cum I saw dirty tactics and lies on both sides of the fence, especially by the golden-haired Hoeppner. The vote was entirely predictable as soon as Harper started the goon PR campaign and a few loose cannons in the CPC Camp didn't know enough to be quiet. > I've been doing this for 15 years now, give or take, and on an almost > daily basis for the past 10 - and where have we gotten? We are still as > fracture now as ever, and there is still only a handful of us who are > actually doing anything. It took me over 20-years to resolve serious problems with the admission criteria used by one large college, and it was in the 'rational' world where evidence was understood and there was some real desire by all factions to 'do good'. Not like in the political world where the objective is to screw the next guy, and improving the lot in life for most citizens is often an afterthought. > The Lieberal biased media continually hammers us. The anti-gun extremists > get *their* side of the story blasted all over the news,without question. (There are more of them, than us). I don't totally agree. If you read the comments to news articles from gun owners you'll see some pretty scary arguments. The RFC shoots itself in the foot when this stuff appears. Start reading the 'comments to articles' in the media and you'll see where a whole pile of work needs to be done. If I was a CFO I'd have a staffer assigned to reading news columns and comments. > What hope is there left? Sure there's hope, but you can't define the outcome. You've got to have a sense of what's a reasonable achievement. I'll darn well accept with some satisfaction, that the FA amendments suggested by Layton and Ignatieff have been part of my lobby bag to opposition and gov't MPs. I have every expectation of gaining more via the opposition route than from the gov't side. I've always been told it's bad form and bad luck to bow out mid-term. You've been a stalwart. . . I'd give it one more election, Bruce. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:16:34 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Any body - But! *NFR* The electorate are peeved at anyone who represents the Party in power. Sitting members face the firing line. The progressive Cons take New Brunswick, winning 42 of 55 seats. McGuinty sinking, poll shows: 76% want new party in power > http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/867118--mcguinty-sinking-poll-shows-76-want-new-party-in-power?bn=1 In Ontario, voters are so distraught that Tim 'Who' Hudak, a total ProgCon nobody, has the McGintites on the run. In Toronto, one of the most 'regressive' politicians to pop up on the big screen in Canada, may pull off a body slam on Furious George Smitherman who slam dunked Ontario before unleashing himself on Trontonians. On the Fed level, despite the attack on Toronto Urban Elites by Harper bulldog John Baird, the CPC have tapped the 'Elite' for electoral salvation. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:36:53 -0400 From: Barry Glasgow Subject: Gun registry savages good citizens From: Barry Glasgow [mailto:barryglasgow@yahoo.com] Sent: September-28-10 10:32 AM To: Canwest papers who ran Iain Hunter's column Subject: Gun registry savages good citizens In his September 27th column, coyly titled "The Right To Bear Grudges", Canwest columnist Iain Hunter found the concerns of millions of Canadians "pretty well beside the point" because he's not personally "aware that anyone has been fined or imprisoned for simply failing to register a long gun". How scientific! It's revealing to see how Mr. Hunter uses these legitimate concerns for his own political purposes in criticizing the Harper government. The cases where vindictive spouses have used this law (along with false claims of abuse) to make their partners' lives a living hell are out there for any journalist with a passing interest in fairness to uncover. I personally know of a couple and, believe me, a criminal record is not something that helps one's life move forward. And this legislation provides many more opportunities to criminalize non-criminal behaviour that most people don't even know about. Citizens who victimized by this draconian legislation become pariahs in their communities and are often forced to relocate. They suffer irrecoverable financial damages, their employability is jeopardized and they can no longer travel abroad. A website www.BruceMontague.ca plays out the saga of one man who did go to jail and suffered many of the experiences that Mr. Hunter thinks are "beside the point". A documented posted on: www.lowe.ca/Rick/FirearmsLegislation/charterViolations.htm explains the many ways in which the registry's enforcement mechanisms violate our rights. It's not encouraging to see the same people who get their knickers in a knot over freedom-of-the press issues dismiss the genuine concerns of good people who can run afoul of this bureaucratic nonsense. Millions of good Canadians believe that's another pretty damn good reason to hold grudges. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:15:07 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Men convicted in Mountie slayings lose appeal http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/convicted+Mountie+slayings+lose+appeal /3588938/story.html Men convicted in Mountie slayings lose appeal By Alexandra Zabjek, Postmedia News September 28, 2010 Their families contend they were the closest thing possible to innocent bystanders in the massacre. But on Monday, the only two men convicted in the 2005 shooting deaths of four Mounties near Mayerthorpe, Alta., were told they had lost their bid for shorter prison sentences. The Alberta Court of Appeal decision in the case of brothers-in-law Shawn Hennessey and Dennis Cheeseman devastated the men and their families. Hennessey's father, Barry, called the decision "heart-breaking and heart-wrenching." Each man pleaded guilty to four counts of manslaughter last year in connection the Mountie slayings by gunman James Roszko at his farm near Mayerthorpe, Alta., in March 2005. Roszko shot himself at the scene, so only Hennessey and Cheeseman faced the legal system following the worst single-day loss of life for Canada's national police force in a century. "There needs to be an inquiry into this case," Barry Hennessey said. "There are two boys in jail who had no idea there were going to be deaths." Constables Brock Myrol, Peter Schiemann, Leo Johnston and Anthony Gordon were gunned down by Roszko, nine hours after Cheeseman and Hennessey dropped him off at his farm near Mayerthorpe in the early morning hours of March 3, 2005. Roszko had gone to Hennessey for help to get back to his farm and acquired a firearm from him. Roszko killed himself after attacking the officers with his own assault rifle. Barry Hennessey maintains his 31-year-old son and Cheeseman, 26, were under duress when they signed an agreed statement of facts in support of their guilty pleas and that the document does not accurately reflect their involvement in what happened. "We know we won't give up," Barry Hennessey said. "It's not right that we don't have an inquiry into this case when there is too much not answered. There's nothing for us to hide." Nonetheless, all three justices dismissed Hennessey's son's appeal of his 15-year sentence. Two of the three justices dismissed Cheeseman's appeal of his 12-year sentence. One justice dissented and found Cheeseman's sentence should have been nine years. "Cheeseman's role was so marginal that it barely elevated him from a bystander to a party of the offence and it is appropriate to be mindful of that in determining a fit sentence," wrote Justice Peter Martin. Hennessey and Cheeseman were given some credit for their guilty pleas and the time they spent in remand custody when they were sentenced in January 2009. At the time, Hennessey had about 101/2 years left to serve and Cheeseman had just over seven years left to serve. Writing for the majority, Justice Jean Cote said the sentences were appropriate. "Apart from treason in wartime, killing police officers is probably the most serious crime in Canada," he wrote. "Four peace officers were ambushed and deliberately slain in cold blood with a firearm." © Copyright (c) The StarPhoenix ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:13:04 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Vic Toews speaking for 'all gun owners' in Canada Here's Toews speaking in the H of C about your hopes and aspirations for Canada's gun laws - Sept 22, 2010: > http://canadaonline.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=canadaonline& cdn=newsissues&tm=9&f=21&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www2.parl.gc.ca /housechamberbusiness/chambersittings.aspx%3FView%3DH%26Parl%3D40%26 Ses%3D3%26Language%3DE%26Mode%3D1 Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, let me > While we support the licensing aspect and the registration of > prohibited and restricted weapons, we do not support the wasteful > long gun registry. More from Toews: It's notable how his verbal slight-of-hand hits the mark. > Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): > We will continue to correct the failed Liberal record. Our opposition > to the long gun registry is clear. We know that criminalizing farmers > and duck hunters does not increase public safety, nor does it protect > victims. Unless these farmers and duck hunters have refused to participate in the requirements of the FA and become another 'unreported criminal' with no known victims. Not to fear, the gov't is adding prison cells for perpetrators of unreported crimes. Again: > Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): > > Let me be clear. While we support the licensing of people and the > registration of prohibited and restricted weapons, we do not support > the wasteful long gun registry. And the RFC cheers this blatant discrimination of restricted and prohibited owners. I can recall the day that we pilloried the Libs over their attitude towards 'bad and black' guns. And does this Minister really understand what he's saying in his answer to a question about the Census? > Hon. Tony Clement (Minister of Industry, CPC): > Mr. Speaker, we do not think it is appropriate to force Canadians to > provide private, personal information under threat of sanctions. I guess Clement doesn't know about such demands in the FA and with the Short Census. Note: The later vote (153 to 151) on 'the motion to concur in the second report of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security concerning the recommendation not to proceed further with Bill C-391, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Firearms Act (repeal of long-gun registry', appears to show quite a number of MPs ignoring their constituents and voting their Party plank. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, September 28, 2010 1:00 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: HAMILTON SPECTATOR: Firebombs destroy Flamborough home HAMILTON SPECTATOR - SEPTEMBER 28, 2010 Firebombs destroy Flamborough home http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/261786--firebombs-destroy-flamborough-home Damage has been set at $500,000 after a Flamborough home was firebombed early today while its owner slept. Fire officials say police found two Molotov cocktail incendiary bombs outside the Millgrove Sideroad home shortly after the blaze began at 3 a.m. Monday. The Hamilton police arson unit and the Ontario fire Marshal's office are investigating. The blaze appears to have started at the front porch of the two-storey buff brick home and quickly spread to the roof and the second floor. The home, located south of Concession 4 West, was destroyed. Police said the homeowner was alone in the family home when the fire broke out. He was alerted to the fire by a passerby who pounded on the door after seeing flames. The man ran out of the house and tried to fight the fire but was unable to extinguish it. Police have seized two Molotov cocktails - a nickname for bottles with flammable liquids and a burning cloth wick - from grounds around the home. It is not known how many had been thrown at the house. Fire officials said the home was burning so fiercely when the first crews arrived that they were unable to get inside and were forced to adopt "a defensive attack" and keep the blaze from spreading. By 5 a.m. most of the roof of the home had been burned off and the interior gutted. Fire crews remained on scene dousing hot spots in the wreckage early Monday afternoon. jburman@thespec.com 905-526-2469 - --------------------------------- Molotov cocktails thrown at Port Colborne home http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2725147 A home in Port Colborne was pelted with molotov cocktails Sunday morning, causing several small fires. Niagara Regional Police say the homeowner at 3499 Snider Rd., heard glass breaking about 6:30 a.m. and went outside to discover several small fires. The homeowner managed to douse the fires before police and firefighters arrived. As a result, 53-year-old Ian Thomson has been charged with careless use of a firearm. Damage to the home was minimal. Police say three suspects in dark-coloured clothing were seen leaving the area in a two-door, mid-sized vehicle. Further investigation determined the homeowner allegedly discharged a hand gun in an attempt to ward off the suspects. As a result, 53-year-old Ian Thomson has been charged with careless use of a firearm. Anyone with information about this incident is asked to contact police at 905-688-4111, ext 3342. - --------------------------------- The Canadian Press - ONLINE EDITION Port Colborne, Ont., man faces charges after home attacked with Molotov cocktails By The Canadian Press Posted: 23/08/2010 8:56 PM | Last Modified: 24/08/2010 11:18 AM http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/port-colborne-ont-man-faces-charges-after-home-attacked-with-molotov-cocktails-101349084.html PORT COLBORNE, Ont. - A Port Colborne, Ont., man whose home was attacked has ended up facing charges himself. Niagara Regional Police say a man emerged from his home with a handgun and fired it after several Molotov cocktails were thrown at the home. Police say three suspects wearing dark clothes got away in a car after the cocktails were thrown early Sunday morning. There is nothing to suggest any of them were injured when the gun was fired. By the time police and firefighters arrived, the homeowner had already doused several small fires and damage to the home was minimal. Ian Thomson, 53, is charged with careless use of a firearm. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, September 28, 2010 1:44 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Wildlife Federation ready to fight gun registry all over again MOOSE JAW TIMES HERALD - SEPTEMBER 27, 2010 Wildlife Federation ready to fight gun registry all over again By Myles Fish Times-Herald http://www.mjtimes.sk.ca/News/Local/2010-09-27/article-1800739/Wildlife-Federation-ready-to-fight-gun-registry-all-over-again/1 The vote may have just concluded, but the Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation (SWF) is already preparing for the next opportunity to get rid of the gun registry once and for all. "We're certainly not very pleased," SWF executive director Darrell Crabbe said in reference to last week's House of Commons vote to stop debate on a motion to kill the long gun registry. "The next one will be the big battle. That'll be the one that'll bring this thing to a complete head one way or another. We're starting to plan now, we're going to be ready for whatever the next opportunity is," Crabbe said. The SWF is part of a nationwide coalition, said Crabbe, hoping to scrap the registry he described as erroneous and wasteful. The coalition aimed to get certain facts about the registry out in the open, but Crabbe accused pro-registry groups of skewing the facts. "There was so much spin doctoring of the information. It's almost sickening to see the kinds of things they were releasing that were completely untrue." COMMENT - September 28th, 2010 at 12:20:16 The only way to sort this whole mess out, is to repeal the current firearms act, and return to the FAC, It wasn't broke, and they should have left it alone. The FAC had ALL the same requirements that the current farce has. Guns were registered when purchased, and you could not acquire one without an FAC. The FAC was a 'certificate' generally referred to as a gun license, and it made NO ONE a criminal for the simple possession of a legally obtained firearm. You want COMPROMISE? Go back to what worked for years, and had the consent of the firearms owners. There is no reason for the mess we have now! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 12:35:50 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "1 in 4 Canadians victim of crime"-StatsCan 1 in 4 Canadians victim of crime-Stats Canada. So this might explain why voters like promises of attacking crime and why it shouldn't be a surprise to the politically correct media and politicians who created this mess. http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Canadians+victims+crime+StatsCan/ 3590054/story.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 12:46:21 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #101 Ed; The timeline for the signing of treaties range from 1725 to 1923. Not much has changed in the realm of hunting firearms since 1923. What is reasonable is a question that applies to Rights and not to Privileges. We need more people with Rights and standing up for that concept. It's not a topic the MSM will ever raise nor will the political parties(unless citizens raise it first). On 28-Sep-10, at 9:50 AM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:12:56 -0400 > From: "mred" > Subject: Re: "right to the means to hunt" - Cdn-Firearms Digest V14#99 > > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry James Fillo" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:51 AM > Subject: "Re: right to the means to hunt" -Cdn-Firearms Digest V14#99 > >> Ed, the point is at the time of the signing of the Treaties, late >> 1800s, the Indians were using firearms and had been doing so for some >> time. > > > For the sake of argument then ? lets say that you are correct. > > If so? then they should be restricted to flintlock or percussion > guns as they were the ones that the whites came into Canada with > originally. > > This would satisfy your point that they should be allowed to use > guns, as this goes way back to when whitey came into North America. thus > establishing the past use of guns for Natives. > > There were no modern weapons extant, as we know them today , > originally.. > > ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:46:45 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Gun registry savages good citizens - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Glasgow" To: "Cdn. Firearms Digest" Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:36 AM Subject: Gun registry savages good citizens > From: Barry Glasgow [mailto:barryglasgow@yahoo.com] > Sent: September-28-10 10:32 AM > To: Canwest papers who ran Iain Hunter's column > > Subject: Gun registry savages good citizens > Millions of good Canadians believe that's another pretty damn good reason > to hold grudges. Well I`m #1 in holding a grudge. I`m like an elephant I never forget . 35 years ago a chirper neighbor called the cops on me because I stepped on his lawn. It was the verge which belongs to the road allowance, in any case. I waited for an opportunity to retaliate and 35 years later I did. I wont go into the details but I got the town involved to do the job and the police and the insurance company. He wasn't too happy with the result:):):) LOL But I DID get my revenge. I hold the @#$%^&*( Lieberals in the same esteem. ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:48:54 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Men convicted in Mountie slayings lose appeal Sounds like a railroad job to me,? from what I read in the news? However this just goes to show how biased the whole system is against gun-owners whether they do anything or not. ed/on - --------- Original Message ---------- From: "Joe Gingrich" To: "undisclosed-recipients:" Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:15 PM Subject: Men convicted in Mountie slayings lose appeal > http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/convicted+Mountie+slayings+lose+appeal > /3588938/story.html > > Men convicted in Mountie slayings lose appeal > > By Alexandra Zabjek, Postmedia News > > September 28, 2010 > > Their families contend they were the closest thing possible to innocent > bystanders in the massacre. > > But on Monday, the only two men convicted in the 2005 shooting deaths of > four Mounties near Mayerthorpe, Alta., were told they had lost their bid > for shorter prison sentences. > > The Alberta Court of Appeal decision in the case of brothers-in-law Shawn > Hennessey and Dennis Cheeseman devastated the men and their families. > > Hennessey's father, Barry, called the decision "heart-breaking and > heart-wrenching." > > Each man pleaded guilty to four counts of manslaughter last year in > connection the Mountie slayings by gunman James Roszko at his farm near > Mayerthorpe, Alta., in March 2005. > > Roszko shot himself at the scene, so only Hennessey and Cheeseman faced > the legal system following the worst single-day loss of life for Canada's > national police force in a century. > > "There needs to be an inquiry into this case," Barry Hennessey said. > "There are two boys in jail who had no idea there were going to be > deaths." > > Constables Brock Myrol, Peter Schiemann, Leo Johnston and Anthony Gordon > were gunned down by Roszko, nine hours after Cheeseman and Hennessey > dropped him off at his farm near Mayerthorpe in the early morning hours > of > March 3, 2005. Roszko had gone to Hennessey for help to get back to his > farm and acquired a firearm from him. Roszko killed himself after > attacking the officers with his own assault rifle. > > Barry Hennessey maintains his 31-year-old son and Cheeseman, 26, were > under duress when they signed an agreed statement of facts in support of > their guilty pleas and that the document does not accurately reflect > their > involvement in what happened. > > "We know we won't give up," Barry Hennessey said. "It's not right that we > don't have an inquiry into this case when there is too much not answered. > There's nothing for us to hide." > > Nonetheless, all three justices dismissed Hennessey's son's appeal of his > 15-year sentence. Two of the three justices dismissed Cheeseman's appeal > of his 12-year sentence. One justice dissented and found Cheeseman's > sentence should have been nine years. > > "Cheeseman's role was so marginal that it barely elevated him from a > bystander to a party of the offence and it's appropriate to be mindful of > that in determining a fit sentence," wrote Justice Peter Martin. > > Hennessey and Cheeseman were given some credit for their guilty pleas and > the time they spent in remand custody when they were sentenced in January > 2009. At the time, Hennessey had about 101/2 years left to serve and > Cheeseman had just over seven years left to serve. > > Writing for the majority, Justice Jean Cote said the sentences were > appropriate. > > "Apart from treason in wartime, killing police officers is probably the > most serious crime in Canada," he wrote. "Four peace officers were > ambushed and deliberately slain in cold blood with a firearm." > > © Copyright (c) The StarPhoenix ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #102 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)