Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, September 29 2010 Volume 14 : Number 105 In this issue: Re: "Ontario Superior Court-strikes down prostitution law" Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ regarding: [Note to Eduardo] Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ Support divided as federal long-gun registry survives COLUMN: Faulty registry suits Harper By Murray Mandryk Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ Victoria T-C - Letters - Sept 27/10 Nanton News - Editorial - It's all over but the crying Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:43:32 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: "Ontario Superior Court-strikes down prostitution law" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "undisclosed-recipients:" Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:43 PM Subject: Re: "Ontario Superior Court-strikes down prostitution law" > From: "mred" > Subject: Re: "Ontario Superior Court-strikes down prostitution law" > [Excerpt] > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 08:21:39 -0400 > > Count me in too, Ed! If we could get the 3-4 million fence-sitting > Firearms Owners to help, we could take back control of our Rights. > However, I'm starting to feel like Bruce. Fighting for 15 years, and for > what? Constant disappointment and frustration! I'm really tempted to just > give up and just sit back, relax and enjoy my remaining years. No, no, no, no, thats what they want us to do. Lets NOT play into their hands? ..Never ever give up till you stop breathing. It's not just for us? Its for those who come after us? If we give up? What kind of legacy will we leave to our descendants ?? ed/on > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> It might be worth a shot~! NOW? if all working RFC members >> donate the price of a box of shells and/or a case of beer we would >> have the resources to hire a dozen like him . >> COUNT ME IN~! >> ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:45:05 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ - ----- Original Message ----- From: <10x@telus.net> To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ > At 08:49 AM 9/29/2010 -0400, you wrote: >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: <10x@telus.net> >>To: >>Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:15 PM >>Subject: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes the 'despised' Toronto.." >> >>> At 07:49 AM 9/28/2010 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>>>Subject: "Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes the 'despised' Toronto >>>>urban elite" >>>> >>>>Most, if not all university types are far left wing radicals. >>>>ed/on >>> >>> >>> The really smart ones are right wing. >>> I am so far left that I appear to be on the right.... >> > I am still trying to legitimize THAT statement ?LOL ed/on > > It is my observation that the extreme right and the extreme left want > essentially the same thing. > > An example is the original Black Panther movement in the U.S. that seemed > to have the same goals of racial purity and segregation that the KKK > held.... Thats the US . Do you think we`re on the same playing field here ? ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:23:44 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: regarding: [Note to Eduardo] Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:18:29 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: "Ontario Superior Court-strikes down prostitution law" [Excerpt] Subject: "Ontario Superior Court judge strikes down prostitution law" [Note to Eduardo; hire this gunslinger. A law prof looking for a cause] - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The legal system discriminates against the 5 million members of the Canadian firearms community. For details see http://www.brucemontague.ca/html/0395.html Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:40:05 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ At 01:45 PM 9/29/2010 -0400, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <10x@telus.net> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:09 PM >Subject: Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ > >> At 08:49 AM 9/29/2010 -0400, you wrote: > >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: <10x@telus.net> >>>To: >>>Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:15 PM >>>Subject: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes the 'despised' Toronto.." >>> >>>> At 07:49 AM 9/28/2010 -0400, you wrote: >>>> >>>>>Subject: "Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes the 'despised' Toronto >>>>>urban elite" >>>>> >>>>>Most, if not all university types are far left wing radicals. >>>>>ed/on >>>> >>>> >>>> The really smart ones are right wing. >>>> I am so far left that I appear to be on the right.... >>> >> I am still trying to legitimize THAT statement ?LOL ed/on >> >> It is my observation that the extreme right and the extreme left want >> essentially the same thing. >> >> An example is the original Black Panther movement in the U.S. that >> seemed to have the same goals of racial purity and segregation that >> the KKK held.... > >Thats the US . Do you think we`re on the same playing field here ? >ed/on Just an example of how the goals of the right and left are sometimes the same. There may be examples in Canada. BTW: The KKK did have and probably still has chapters in Canada.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, September 29, 2010 1:04 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Support divided as federal long-gun registry survives THE COCHRANE EAGLE - SEPTEMBER 28, 2010 Support divided as federal long-gun registry survives By: Jeremy Nolais http://www.cochraneeagle.com/2010/09/support-divided-as-federal-long-gun-registry-survives/ During his 38-year career with the RCMP, Bob Head never had use of Canada's long-gun registry, as it was not introduced until four years after he retired in 1991. That's not to say the Cochrane resident thinks it would have made much difference in his ability to enforce the law. "It can do absolutely nothing in my view because criminals will remain criminals and they're never going to register (firearms)," Head said. Head's negative attitude towards the federal registry is shared by the Conservative government who had pushed to have it quashed with a bill voted on in the House of Commons Sept. 22. However, full support from the federal Liberals caucus, who introduced the registry in 1995 under the Jean Chretien government, and a strong backing from the free-voting NDP saw the measure narrowly defeated 153-151. Moments after the bill was defeated, Conservative Wild Rose MP Blake Richards told the Eagle he was very disappointed with the result. "Knowing that we actually had a chance to get rid of this thing after 15 years of opposing it, and to come that close, is disappointing to a lot of people," he said. "There's been $2 billion wasted on this thing and it serves no purpose in reducing crime." Richards said he does not believe the registry can be improved to serve a valuable purpose because criminals have no reason to register their firearms. "If they have no problem breaking any of the other laws of our country why would they have any hesitation about breaking such a law as a gun registry?" Richards said, adding that he believes local law enforcement share his views. "I can't speak for the officers themselves, but I certainly have not heard any support for the registry or if any of them have found it a useful tool in their job." However, contrary to Richards' views, Cochrane RCMP Staff Sgt. Jason Seper said his organization supports the registry but could not provide statistics regarding its use in the local detachment citing operational concerns. "Nationally, I can tell you that we are for the gun registry because it's a tool that we use in our investigations and it keeps our members safe," Seper said. Head disagrees. He pointed to the federal handgun registry, which was introduced in Canada in 1934, as further proof that government intervention of this kind is ineffective. During his time on the force, Head said he consulted the handgun registry no more than 12-15 times and found it to be outdated in every instance. "There are inaccurate registration numbers and no follow up as to who had what and where. So, we didn't rely on it," Head said, adding he believes similar issues exist with the long-gun registry. Richards said the ineffective handgun registry provides further reasoning to abolish the long-gun registry. That said, Richards acknowledged the Conservatives have no plans currently to push for similar action against the handgun registry. "We are focused on the long-gun registry right now because it causes the greatest (annoyance) for people who need to use guns as a tool in their work," he said, pointing to farmers as a primary example. In opposition to the Conservatives' bill, the federal Liberals have pointed to numerous women's rights organizations, victim services groups and nursing unions as examples of organizations that support keeping the registry alive. Keith Wiley, a communications officer for the United Nurses of Alberta, said that while health workers would not generally have a practical use for the registry, they definitely witness firsthand the horrors associated with gun violence. But regardless of the views presented by the federal Liberals and other supporters of the gun registry, Head stood firm on his views when it comes to the 15-year-old legislation. "I just don't believe it's of any value," he said. "But there might be some value in registering criminals who ought never have access to guns. That probably makes more sense to me." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, September 29, 2010 1:08 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: COLUMN: Faulty registry suits Harper By Murray Mandryk SASKATOON STAR PHOENIX - SEPTEMBER 29, 2010 Faulty registry suits Harper By Murray Mandryk Saskatchewan News Network; Regina Leader-Post September 29, 2010 http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Faulty+registry+suits+Harper/3594613/story.html Having lost its fight to scrap the long gun registry, one might conclude the next logical move of Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government would be to try to fix it. Of course, that would be the logical course of events if this debate was about anything other than politics. What's readily apparent after last week's 153-151 vote against Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner's private member's bill to scrap the registry is that Harper and company feel they are better served politically by keeping this unpopular Liberal legislation around rather than actually fixing it. The thought crosses one's mind in the wake of the dramatic vote, which seems to have increased the Conservatives' popularity at the expense of the Liberals and New Democrats in particular. A 1,002-person survey done for Postmedia-Global TV sees the Tories' popularity rise by one point to 35 per cent in the past two weeks, while Michael Ignatieff's Liberals are down two points, to 29 per cent, and Jack Layton's NDP has dropped by four points, to 12 per cent. In short, Harper's gamble to use the long gun registry controversy to shore up his party's base and even make inroads in such places as rural Ontario seems to have worked. Layton's strategy of attempting to be all things to all voters appears to have backfired. No matter how inane they sound, anything Conservatives now say about the gun registry appears to be to their advantage. Take Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre MP Tom Lukiwski's suggestion that Liberal and New Democrat MPs took their marching orders from their Ottawa masters. How is that any different from Saskatchewan's 13 Tory MPs taking their marching orders from their Ottawa master on equalization, or a domed stadium in Regina? Scrap the registry? Why would the Harper Conservatives want to do that when the issue isn't even losing them ground in urban Ontario and Quebec? Why end a fight they just can't seem to lose? But while all this may be well and good for the Conservatives' political fortunes, is the current situation really any good for everyone else? It certainly isn't great for a Canadian tradition of peace, order and good government. We've registered handguns since 1934 and even registered long guns during the war. While Harper sees political benefit in this division, we are losing the fine old notion of compromise for the betterment of the nation as a whole. That rural and urban Canada both have diverse but equally valid concerns over gun control hardly is a consideration to emerge out of the Prime Minister's Office. While this will be hard for gun advocates to accept, the incessant criticism of the registry today probably isn't all that great for Canadian police officers. Police chiefs as well as regular duty officers will tell you the registry is a useful tool. You also won't hear much from the PMO that the Canadian Firearms Registry has seen a dramatic increase in online inquiries, to 14,012 a day this year from 1,813 in 2002. You will hear, however, that this is simply because a hit is automatically generated every time a licence plate or address is checked by police, and that only 3.7 per cent of the hits are specific to firearms registration. But worst of all for Canada's ordinary, law-abiding long gun owners is that there's no hope now that a badly flawed piece of legislation will be improved. Rather than take up either Layton or Ignatieff on their pre-vote offer to fix the legislation, Harper seems content to keep ineffective legislation intact. That there is an amnesty from prosecution until May 2011 for failing to register a long gun speaks to the bill's current ineffectiveness. But what if there is an election? What if the government changes or we get another Conservative minority that can't scrap the original bill C-68? Wouldn't we all be better off with thoughtful amendments that take into consideration whatever benefits are derived from the long-gun registry, without making criminals of duck hunters and farmers? Or is the prime minister only interested in the ceaseless games and brinkmanship we saw last week? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:07:30 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ - ----- Original Message ----- From: <10x@telus.net> To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:40 PM Subject: Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ > At 01:45 PM 9/29/2010 -0400, you wrote: >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: <10x@telus.net> >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:09 PM >>Subject: Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ >> >>> At 08:49 AM 9/29/2010 -0400, you wrote: >> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: <10x@telus.net> >>>>To: >>>>Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:15 PM >>>>Subject: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes the 'despised' >>>>Toronto.." >>>> >>>>> At 07:49 AM 9/28/2010 -0400, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Subject: "Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes the 'despised' Toronto >>>>>>urban elite" >>>>>> >>>>>>Most, if not all university types are far left wing radicals. >>>>>>ed/on >>>>> >>>>> The really smart ones are right wing. >>>>> I am so far left that I appear to be on the right.... >>>> >>> I am still trying to legitimize THAT statement ?LOL ed/on >>> >>> It is my observation that the extreme right and the extreme left want >>> essentially the same thing. >>> >>> An example is the original Black Panther movement in the U.S. that >>> seemed to have the same goals of racial purity and segregation that >>> the KKK held.... >> >>Thats the US . Do you think we`re on the same playing field here ? >>ed/on > > Just an example of how the goals of the right and left are sometimes the > same. There may be examples in Canada. > > BTW: The KKK did have and probably still has chapters in Canada.... Thats news to me but then I dont keep up on all the racist stuff. As long as they go after Muslim radicals I really dont care. Thats about as racist? I can get. Not because they`re Muslims but because they refuse to assimilate into Canadian values and embrace their own sharia law which is a primitive law based on exploitation anfd killing of women and non-believers, as history has shown. They are the ULTIMATE Anti-Christ . ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:36:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Victoria T-C - Letters - Sept 27/10 http://www.timescolonist.com/life/Letters+registry+regionalization+deer+ferries+more/3584807/story.html Register the guns, it's not that difficult Re: "Emotions aside, gun registry doesn't matter," Sept. 21. At last a voice of reason! What is all the fuss about? Is it such a big deal to ask legitimate gun owners to register their guns, if they have nothing to hide, what can it matter? Surely they can spare a few minutes to comply. Even if it is only a small help to the police, it is a help, as they have said time and again. The money has been spent, it won't come back. Let's just get on with things that matter such as human rights, climate change, existing wars, veterans' compensation and many more. Claudette Preece Courtenay . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Registering cars and guns There are an estimated 29 million motor vehicles registered in Canada. Virtually every owner registers his vehicle manufacturer, model, year, and serial number without complaint. Virtually nobody thinks the requirement to register their vehicle is an infringement of their human rights or onerous. There are an estimated 7.2 to 11 million firearms in Canada. Many owners don't want to register the manufacturer, model, year, and serial number of their firearm, citing it as an infringement of their human rights or as an onerous of the task. There's no difference between registering a vehicle and registering a firearm. What's in the way of taking the existing vehicle registry system, changing the appropriate field from "vehicle" to "firearm" and using a very slightly modified version of the vehicle registry system for firearms? Lotar Maurer Qualicum Beach . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Time to end car registry too Today, watching the news, it became clear to me that some rural folks have been suffering deeply because of this gun registry. They feel they are being looked on as criminals. As a city guy, I can relate to that. Here we have to register our cars. If you have more than one you have to register all of them. And they make you pay to register them. Worse, an officer can stop you anytime on the road and demand to see your registration papers. Talk about being treated like a common criminal. Andy Mulcahy Victoria [Note: AsstMod-RAM: If anyone wants to write a rebuttal back to any of these letters, the Letters to the Editor link is: letters@tc.canwest.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:45:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Nanton News - Editorial - It's all over but the crying http://www.nantonnews.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3D2778734 It's all over but the crying Editorial Posted 2 hours ago Well, that's it. After much promise, much debate, and much fighting, the private member's bill to scrap the long-gun registry was defeated last week. The Conservative Party motion to scrap the 15-year-old program failed when the NDPs joined up with the Liberals and Bloc Quebecois. The vote came down to 153 to 151, defeating the bill. Bill C-391, to abolish the gun registry, was introduced by Tory MP Candice Hoeppner, bringing to a head an issue the Conservatives long promised to eliminate the registry. Prime Minister Stephen Harper said that despite the defeat, the vote was a sign that the registry opposition is stronger than every, and therefore its abolition is closer to becoming a reality. The issue came down to alliances. The Conservatives stood alone, while the NDP, Liberals and Bloc Quebecois joined as a united force. The NDP allow its MPs to vote as they wish on private members' bills, and so six NDPs voted with the Conservatives. And so it became essentially a political party issue, a "my way or the highway" attitude for many. It also became more of a rural versus urban issue. The Liberals and NDP want to propose changes to the registry, to include such things like making a first-time failure to register a firearm a non-criminal ticketing offence. They also want to waive fees for new licences, upgrades and renewals. The changes will make it easier for gun owners to register their firearms, Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff said in April. Last month, political parties and lobbying groups started scrambling. Supporters of the registry included doctors, women's groups, and victim-rights groups. Police chiefs and police associations voiced their support for the registry. On the other side of the fence were the farmers and hunters, who argued that the registry was ineffective and a waste of money. It probably was a nail in the coffin of the vote that in mid-August, the head of the Canadian Firearms Program who was, of course, a strong supporter of the registry, was shuffled out of the program. He was quickly replaced by RCMP Chief Supt. Pierre Perron, who said that the program had contributed to officer and public safety, but that he would respect the direction provided by Parliament. In late August, an RCMP report on the registry determined that the program is cost effective, efficient and has been an important factor for law enforcement bodies, despite years of the Conservatives saying that the registry has been sucking millions of dollars. The report had been compiled by independent auditors, and had been completed in early 2010. The report showed that the cost of the program has been somewhere between $1.1-$3.6 million per year. The federal government had the report since February but had not released it. The Conservatives say the battle isn't over, but how much time and effort can be dedicated to this issue, when so many critical issues are needing attention? If the long-gun registry has been a waste of money, what is the value of our politicians time when they chew on this issue over and over again? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:41:32 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ At 05:07 PM 9/29/2010 -0400, Mred wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: <10x@telus.net> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:40 PM >Subject: Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ > >> At 01:45 PM 9/29/2010 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: <10x@telus.net> >>>To: >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:09 PM >>>Subject: Re: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes ........ >>> >>>> At 08:49 AM 9/29/2010 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: <10x@telus.net> >>>>>To: >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:15 PM >>>>>Subject: Re:"Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes the 'despised' >>>>>Toronto.." >>>>> >>>>>> At 07:49 AM 9/28/2010 -0400, you wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Subject: "Harper appointed AudGen epitomizes the 'despised' Toronto >>>>>>>urban elite" >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Most, if not all university types are far left wing radicals. >>>>>>>ed/on >>>>>> >>>>>> The really smart ones are right wing. >>>>>> I am so far left that I appear to be on the right.... >>>>> >>>> I am still trying to legitimize THAT statement ?LOL ed/on >>>> >>>> It is my observation that the extreme right and the extreme left want >>>> essentially the same thing. >>>> >>>> An example is the original Black Panther movement in the U.S. that >>>> seemed to have the same goals of racial purity and segregation that >>>> the KKK held.... >>> >>>Thats the US . Do you think we`re on the same playing field here ? >>>ed/on >> >> Just an example of how the goals of the right and left are sometimes the >> same. There may be examples in Canada. >> >> BTW: The KKK did have and probably still has chapters in Canada.... > >Thats news to me but then I don't keep up on all the racist stuff. > >As long as they go after Muslim radicals I really dont care. Thats about >as racist? I can get. Not because they`re Muslims but because they refuse >to assimilate into Canadian values and embrace their own sharia law which >is a primitive law based on exploitation and killing of women and >non-believers, as history has shown. > >They are the ULTIMATE Anti-Christ . >ed/on Defamation and persecution of an identifiable group of people based on religion. That is NOT what Canada is about. Ed. We do have freedom of religion in Canada. I'm surprised the moderators let this post of yours slip through. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It would kinda be borderline under what David Ahenakew was first changed with, wouldn't it? But as Saskatchewan Provincial Court Judge Wilfred Tucker acquitted Ahenakew in 02/2009 because - his statements, while "revolting, disgusting and untrue", did not show an intent to incite hatred. Calling all Muslims "the ULTIMATE Anti-Christ.", would be legally debatable as possibly being a tad closer to that line. But considering what Ahenakew said in that interview in it's entirety, about Jews, etc., it could be argued that his opinions are not any worse, either. Reference; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ahenakew Either way, we are not going to debate these issues on this forum. As you've always been soooooo fond of reminding me 10x - "This is a Political Firearms forum and so should be directly dedicated towards that subject, and that specific subject alone." We are a bit wider than that, [live with it.], in our scope, in dealing with politics, firearm politics, firearms, technical firearms issues, and issues related to firearms use, such as hunting, competitions, plinking, equipment, trouble shooting problems, and a lot of issues that I haven't the time to mention here, in dealing with our chosen way of life. If you folk want to continue on with this torrid subject then please take it to CHAT or to personal E-Mail exchanges on the side - Anywhere but here. This topic ends here and now on this Usenet group, or forum if you like. Therefore any and all submissions attempting to reinvigorate any of this debate will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators and the list owner, Therefore the submissions could be disposed of, without explanation. Or, depending on the submission's content, and it criteria towards advancing our topics of debate could be posted, again at the discretion of the moderators and the list owner. You're understanding of this, and the above would be most appreciative. CFD Moderator- DRGJ ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #105 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)