Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, October 6 2010 Volume 14 : Number 121 In this issue: Chavez approach = an opportunity for RFC? Video - "No Guns for Jews" Once they are armed . . Re: C-68: A suggestion from Greg Illebrun, SWF Re: Chavez approach = an opportunity for RFC? Re: Once they are armed . . Re: Video - "No Guns for Jews" re: 12(7) re: re: Blackhawks Re: re: Blackhawks POLL: Alberta alone in opposition to gun registry Column: The 10-MP countdown to the end of Reform has begun Re: Video - "No Guns for Jews" Editorial: New U.S. gun law should have us fired up G&M - Transformational Canadians nominee - Wendy Cukier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 14:06:16 -0700 From: "Fred Hoenisch" Subject: Chavez approach = an opportunity for RFC? In personal conversations, I've challenged, "Only the military and police should have guns" argument with "Fine - give me a week's worth of weapons training like the police get before they are issued their gun - and we should be good, right?" Note: police/military have weapons - we have firearms. I've often pondered if the RFC would make any headway if we 'compromised' and registered through the military under a formalised 'militia.' Most gun owners I know are fervent supporters of rights and freedoms. Would they be opposed to swearing an oath to the crown and a week's worth of training to be considered 'military'? I suspect it might gain us some political support. Any thoughts? Fred in Saanich. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 18:21:42 -0400 From: r0ger@shaw.ca Subject: Video - "No Guns for Jews" I just finished watching the Video "No Guns for Jews", as previously mentioned on the Digest. This Video was produced by the JPFO. Every gun-owner should watch this video, and show it to their friends. http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m2/movieplay-nogunsforjews-flv.php ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 14:11:02 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Once they are armed . . To the Editor Star Phoenix Att'n Jason Warick . Once a criminal arms himself . he ceases to be a 'thief' he is now a robber . I do wish journalists would stop playing fast and loose with the law . Thievery can be a summary charge ROBBERY is indictable . Len Miller Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:29:44 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: C-68: A suggestion from Greg Illebrun, SWF This has been suggested before several times BUT?? who is going to pay for all this hubris ?? Not more than two of us so far have admitted we would donate to a fund to do this type of work and hire competent lawyers to fight for us . So when you get the whole RFC to donate then you will have some clout , otherwise this is just a lot of hot air. Its the old story: "Money talks , bull**it walks" ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 10:42 AM Subject: FW: C-68: A suggestion from Greg Illebrun, SWF > From: Bob Bailey [mailto:robailey@ripnet.com] > Sent: October-05-10 9:25 AM > To: Outdoors Network > Cc: Outdoors Network Information > Subject: Fwd: C-68 > > A suggestion from Greg Illebrun, SWF........... > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: Greg Illerbrun > Date: September 30, 2010 10:06:08 AM EDT (CA) > To: Bob Bailey > Cc: Darrell Crabbe SWF > Subject: C-68 > > Fellow colleagues > > As you are all aware Allan Rock said and I quote I came to Ottawa with the > firm believe that only the police and military should have firearms > He then drafted up C-68 which gives the Govt all the powers they need to > accomplish this task. Most important he made the mere possession of a > firearm a criminal offence! Your license is nothing more than a temporary > amnesty that prevents the police form charging you for the crime you are > committing. The minute your license expires your protection is void!!!! > Toronto cops are now confiscating all the firearms from expired license > holders and here in Sask Farmers whose license has expired are being > charged. You are all aware of the insidious stuff in C-68, search and > seizure provisions, reverse onus etc. The public is not. Therefore I > suggest we abscond or hire a reputable lawyer to put into laymens terms > these points so the general public can understand our concerns and then > take it public. It should be as brief as possible and we should run it > continuously in all our own media outlets for example the wildlifes > Outdoor Edge magazine. > > Your thought please > > AS USUAL, NEVER FORGIVE, NEVER FORGET!!!! > > Regards, > Greg Illerbrun > > Dr. Robert O. Bailey > Vice President Policy for Canada > Delta Waterfowl Foundation > 125 Otter Lake Road RR#1 > Lombardy, Ontario > K0G 1L0 > > (613) 283- 6866 > FAX: 283- 7519 > robailey@ripnet.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:31:20 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Chavez approach = an opportunity for RFC? It was MY ? understanding that militias are NOT allowed in Kanada. Gee I wonder why ?? you think the government is afraid of the public ? ed/on - -------- Original Message -------- From: "Fred Hoenisch" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Chavez approach = an opportunity for RFC? > In personal conversations, I've challenged, "Only the military and police > should have guns" argument with "Fine - give me a week's worth of weapons > training like the police get before they are issued their gun - and we > should be good, right?" Note: police/military have weapons - we have > firearms. > > I've often pondered if the RFC would make any headway if we 'compromised' > and registered through the military under a formalised 'militia.' > > Most gun owners I know are fervent supporters of rights and freedoms. > > Would they be opposed to swearing an oath to the crown and a week's worth > of training to be considered 'military'? > > I suspect it might gain us some political support. > > Any thoughts? > > Fred in Saanich. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:38:28 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Once they are armed . . Well Len, since they dont know a rifle from a shotgun ? what do you expect ? ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Miller" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 5:11 PM Subject: Once they are armed . . > To the Editor > Star Phoenix > Att'n Jason Warick . > > Once a criminal arms himself . > he ceases to be a 'thief' > he is now a robber . > I do wish journalists would stop > playing fast and loose with the law . > Thievery can be a summary charge > ROBBERY is indictable . > > > Len Miller > Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:39:41 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Video - "No Guns for Jews" Well I'm on dial up so it would take several days to download as its 340MB. Is there a faster way to download this on dial up ? ed/on - --------- Original Message --------- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: Video - "No Guns for Jews" > I just finished watching the Video "No Guns for Jews", as previously > mentioned on the Digest. This Video was produced by the JPFO. Every > gun-owner should watch this video, and show it to their friends. > > http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m2/movieplay-nogunsforjews-flv.php ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:18:07 -0700 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: re: 12(7) So .... since my wife is a licenced handgun owner, but not granfathered = 12(6), I can transfer a pre-1946 12(6) to her while I am still alive? Has anyone done this? We have the download from the RCMP and it is = ambiguously worded in 'legalise'. It implies that she must be currently = so licenced. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:36:39 -0700 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: re: re: Blackhawks Found out today that my wife's Blackhawks may take up to a month to be = processed and shipped!=20 Why? The dealer's answer came in two words: "Hunting season". This is = good news and bad news. The good news is that despite all the bureaucratic BS, people (including = my wife) are still buying guns. The bad is that the dealer has her money = and she has nothing. Anyone else been told something similar regarding a recent purchase? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 09:11:30 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: re: Blackhawks uMMM ? WHO IS THE DEALER ? GOOD ONE TO STAY AWAY FROM. ED/ON - --------- Original Message ---------- From: "Todd Birch" To: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:36 PM Subject: re: re: Blackhawks > Found out today that my wife's Blackhawks may take up to a month to be > processed and shipped! > > Why? The dealer's answer came in two words: "Hunting Season". This is > good news and bad news. > > The good news is that despite all the bureaucratic BS, people (including > my wife) are still buying guns. The bad is that the dealer has her money > and she has nothing. > > Anyone else been told something similar regarding a recent purchase? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 6, 2010 8:00 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: POLL: Alberta alone in opposition to gun registry CALGARY HERALD - OCTOBER 6, 2010 Alberta alone in opposition to gun registry Only province where majority against it, says poll BY MARK KENNEDY, POSTMEDIA NEWS OCTOBER 6, 2010 http://www.calgaryherald.com/Alberta+alone+opposition+registry/3630322/story.html Two-thirds of Canadians support the controversial long-gun registry, but Alberta stands out for its opposition to the database, a new poll has found. The national survey conducted exclusively for Postmedia News and Global Television finds that support for the registry stands at 66 per cent nationally. In Alberta, the only place where the majority oppose the gun registry, the public is basically split -- with just over half (53 per cent) in opposition and the rest (47 per cent) supporting the registry. Support, however, is strong in regions throughout the country -- even though Harper has said his party will not "rest" until it abolishes the registry. But the poll also finds that although Harper is running counter to public opinion on the issue, his stance is only deepening his support among fervent Tories and that the NDP risks losing votes in the next election among Canadians unhappy with that party's internal divisions. "This has very substantive resonance and support across the country," Ipsos Reid senior vice-president John Wright said Tuesday of the registry. "Despite all of its woes about the money spent, it seems most people in this country think that it's a good thing and that if you have a gun it should be registered. Clearly, the police departments and others who have waded in have had an effect." The survey, conducted Sept. 27 to Oct. 4, comes in the wake of a highly publicized parliamentary battle in which Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner failed in her effort to abolish the registry. Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff had required several of his MPs who previously opposed the registry to vote to support it in the Commons, and several New Democrat MPs chose on their own to also switch their votes. The new poll finds that support for the registry is highest in Quebec (81 per cent), followed by Ontario (66 per cent) British Columbia (61 per cent), Atlantic Canada (59 per cent) and Saskatchewan/Manitoba (57 per cent). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 6, 2010 8:16 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Column: The 10-MP countdown to the end of Reform has begun CALGARY HERALD - OCTOBER 6, 2010 Martin: Reform party loses more momentum in Ottawa By Don Martin, Calgary Herald October 6, 2010 7:14 AM Be the first to post a comment http://www.calgaryherald.com/Martin+Reform+party+loses+more+momentum+Ottawa/3630316/story.html The 10-MP countdown to the end of Reform has begun. With Monday's resignation of Conservative Jay Hill after 17 consecutive years as an MP, the original 52 members from the rookie Reform party's class of 1993 are down to 10 survivors and poised to dip into single digits after the next election with at least one more old-timer's declared retirement. That's a good thing. Aside from an influential Calgary MP named Stephen Harper in the role of prime minister and a B.C. MP named Chuck Strahl serving in transport, there's little bench strength left in the original gangbusters who stormed Parliament Hill from the West, vowing to do things differently. Hill's farewell address signalled he'd finally had enough -- and it should serve as a wake-up call to fellow old-school Reformers languishing instead of elevating the calibre of representation in the House of Commons. "It is ultimately up to each of us to determine when it is the right time to leave, when the passion has begun to wane, when we may no longer be sufficiently motivated to give the job the 100 per cent that our constituents deserve," Hill cautioned. "We are fortunate if we get to choose the time of our departure rather than our constituents making the choice for us." Hill told me later he only meant MPs should be conscious of their family obligations and not get carried away with political priorities. But there are legitimate questions about the lingering number of MPs long past their best-before date. Ironically, seven Bloc Quebecois are among the 31 existing MPs first elected in 1993 or earlier, which is a decade after they were supposed to have abdicated Ottawa to govern a sovereign Quebec. But the Reformers were to be different, rebelling against the staid Liberal or Progressive Conservative establishment as outsiders to a ruling political class they now dominate. The lack of fresh blood in Conservative circulation is because Reform's territorial cradle is rock solid elector-ally and, with their party offering protection to MPs against any local challengers, incumbents can coast for life if they so choose. That might serve their purposes, as they calculate the pension payouts on a plan their original party so vigorously opposed, but it doesn't mean their riding receives the best representation. Let's face it. After 17 years, the force driving anyone to seek federal office has either been resolved or rejected. There's nothing new to see or do on the Commons floor as decades-old MPs watch every leader bend or break major principles and promises. They've earned the right to be skeptical, if not cynical, about a place where individuality is a liability and blind obedience the only route to advancement. I never thought I'd ever write this, but more MPs should follow the example of self-proclaimed Reform redneck Myron Thompson, who retired in 2008. The Stetson-wearing force of personality had suffered a handful of heart attacks, which put him atop every-one's ghoul pool, and never did see his crusade for a child pornography crackdown, enhanced victims' rights and prison reform complete before he left office. But now, at age 74, the feisty Thompson has declared his spunky candidacy for town council, ensuring Sundre meetings will never again be boring if he's elected. Good on him. So what drives Calgary MP Diane Ablonczy to stay, for example? She's one of the brightest Conservatives around and a key player in the Reform party from its inception, yet she's been hammered into minor parliamentary secretary gigs and told to stay quiet with little prospect of cabinet advancement. Keith Martin went to the Liberals, but his greatest contribution would appear to be a medical doctor working without borders in the planet's most desperate places instead of talking critical health-care needs to a deafening Conservative head wind. Conservative Garry Breitkreuz has fired a constant stream of blanks in his career-long attempt to kill the long-gun registry. It's clearly time to surrender. If limiting senators to 12 years is reform-worthy policy, and while rules force a U.S. or Russian president out after eight years, surely it's worth debating if Canada's MPs should have term limits, too. When an MP's drive for public service gives way to protecting a pensionable career, it's time to run for fresh challenges instead of re-election. Don Martin is the Herald's political columnist in Ottawa. dmartin@canwest.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 08:13:11 -0700 From: Christopher di Armani Subject: Re: Video - "No Guns for Jews" Sure, send me your mailing address privately to christopher@diarmani.com and I'll put it on a disk for you. Yours in Liberty, Christopher di Armani On 2010-10-05 3:39 PM, mred wrote: > Well I'm on dial up so it would take several days to download as its > 340MB. Is there a faster way to download this on dial up ? > ed/on > > --------- Original Message --------- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:21 PM > Subject: Video - "No Guns for Jews" > >> I just finished watching the Video "No Guns for Jews", as previously >> mentioned on the Digest. This Video was produced by the JPFO. Every >> gun-owner should watch this video, and show it to their friends. >> >> http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m2/movieplay-nogunsforjews-flv.php ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 6, 2010 1:41 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Editorial: New U.S. gun law should have us fired up THE BARRIE EXAMINER - OCTOBER 6, 2010 New U.S. gun law should have us fired up Editorial By BRUCE CAMERON - - Updated 4 hours ago http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2787166 It's sometimes worth it sticking my snout south so that I can get a better look at exactly who we are here in the Great White North. A recent new law in Tennessee, Arizona, Virginia and Georgia has cleared the way for handgun-permit holders to carry loaded firearms into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol. (Eighteen other states say it's okay to bring a weapon into a restaurant that serves booze.) Oh, the visions that coloured the corners of my mind upon first reading that news. It's just way too easy to see where this could wind up: Couple of half-plastered guys arguing about (for example) who the best NASCAR driver is these days; a friendly clash of opinion turns to shouts; shouts become shoves; and before you know it, two of the approximately 350,000,000 privately owned guns in the U.S. have their triggers pulled. Then, someone does a body count. If it's horrific enough, the NRA steels itself for the media questions about the pervasiveness of fireams with the old standby, "Guns don't kill people; people kill people." This new law isn't the whole enchilada in and of itself. The gun lobby in the U.S. these days is darned active, trying (state by state) to alleviate what it sees as over-regulation when it comes to handgun owners hauling their hardware. And in the last couple of years, the U.S. Supreme Court has handed down rulings such as District of Columbia -v-Heller that say American citizens definitely have a right to keep a loaded handgun for home defense. And how about this related tidbit: Texas Governor Rick Perry last week said guns should be allowed on campuses after the Sep. 28 shooting at the University of Texas at Austin. (I know. You're probably right now wishing you had the very same thing I wish I had -- the gumption to call up the good governor and say something like, "Excuse me sir. Just a question from a Canadian you've never met but wouldn't that be like, uh, dumping gasoline on a ferocious fire started in the first place with, um, gasoline?") As a Canuck, I find it surreal. Over here, the sandpaper-throated proclomation of Yosemite Sam: "I'm the roughtest, toughest, he-man stuffest hombre that's ever crosse the Rio Grande. An' I ain't no namby-pamby." Somewhere over there, the brutal reality of madness, spent bullet casings and weeping relatives. All of it within echo of that revolutionary bang of a beginning, where the beautiful fumes of freedom first entered the nose smelling of gunpowder. As for finding our national character in gun-related headlines, it's interesting how things follow true to form, pretty much what you'd expect. The national long-gun registry does raise the passion and or ire of citizens and federal politicians alike but if you've been listening closely since 1995 when the federal Liberals first put the registry into law, you'll have heard the sound of clicks. Millions of clicks, the rattle of computer keyboards, the sound of data being gathered on Canadian citizens doing their duty, wondering what the point is, wondering how this law is supposed to thwart the real abusers of guns, the criminals who generally shy away from telling the government how many guns they have. In Canada, when guns are the news, they're smothered in a billion- dollar bureaucracy. In the U.S. it's a case of throwing back a shot while hoping not to hear one. Canadians being Canadians, Americans being Americans. Cheers to the differences, subtle or otherwise, that keep it interesting. Bruce Cameron, a news broadcaster for ROCK95/KOOL FM, is a freelance writer. He invites you to check out his blog, The Flotsam File. Letter To The Editor Letter To The Editor On-line Form [500 Words max.] http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/feedback1/LetterToEditor.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 12:54:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: G&M - Transformational Canadians nominee - Wendy Cukier http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/25/the-nominees/wendy-cukier-gun-control-activist/article1743945/?cmpid=3Drss1 Jim Ross for The Globe and Mail Wendy Cukier, Gun control activist Published Tuesday, Oct. 05, 2010 4:06PM EDT Last updated Tuesday, Oct. 05, 2010 4:33PM EDT Wendy Cukier is president and co-founder of the Coalition for Gun Control (CGC), an alliance of more than 300 major policing, public safety and violence prevention organizations including the Canadian Association of Police Chiefs and the Canadian Public Health Association. Ms. Cukier launched the Coalition for Gun Control in the wake of the 1989 Montreal massacre, after 14 women were fatally shot at Ècole Polytechnique by 25-year-old Marc Lépine, who was armed with a semi-automatic weapon. The CGC is meant to reduce gun death, injury and crime. Ms. Cukier was instrumental in pressuring the Canadian government to create= the long-gun registry in 1995 =E2=80=93 an effort to reduce crime by makin= g guns traceable =E2=80=93 and has been an active proponent of its cause ev= er since, notably an important voice against the proposed scrapping of the = long-gun registry this past September. Ms. Cukier is also on the board of the International Action Network on Smal= l Arms. Nominator: Ms. Cukier was nominated by the Transformational Canadians Panel Ms. Cukier and the CGC were instrumental in pressuring the Liberals to introduce a bill requiring the licensing of all gun owners and registration of all firearms in 1995 – an effort to reduce crime by making guns traceable – and has been an active proponent of its cause ever since, notably an important voice against the proposed scrapping of the long-gun registry this past September. Ms. Cukier is also on the board of the International Action Network on Small Arms. Nominator: Ms. Cukier was nominated by the Transformational Canadians Panel. - -- The Transformational Canadians Panel http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/25/whos-your-transformational-canadian/article1706122/ Who's your Transformational Canadian? Globe and Mail Update Published Monday, Sep. 13, 2010 7:32PM EDT Last updated Wednesday, Sep. 15, 2010 6:31AM EDT Everyone can name a great Canadian, but what does it mean to be in this group? The program The search is on to find 25 living citizens whose accomplishments answer that question. Through their vision, leadership and actions, each of these people has immeasurably improved the lives of others. This fall, the Transformational Canadians program will choose exceptional individuals drawn from across six fields: business, science and technology, the environment, education, health care and the community. All 25 must combine a passion for positive change with the discipline and focus to achieve outstanding results. Nominate: Who's your pick? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/25/article1702824.ece See the full list of nominees so far http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/25/the-nominees/ Meet the panelists http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/25/panel/ The partners The Globe and Mail has partnered with CTV and Cyberpresse to celebrate Canadians who have sought to make a difference – not just by doing what they do, but through the demonstrable impact they've made on the world around them, whether in Canada or beyond. Driving the program as the exclusive sponsor is Cisco Canada. Willa Black, Cisco Canada's vice-president, corporate affairs says that for her organization, recognizing 25 people who exemplify the best of Canadian values is a meaningful way to celebrate Cisco's 25th anniversary. The goal The aim is to spark a coast-to-coast conversation. That's why the program is seeking nominations not only from its distinguished panel of six judges, but also from the public at large. “I hope we can tap into Canada's national consciousness and pride,” Ms. Black says. “I hope we can share the idea that you don't have to be rich or powerful to make good things happen.” In recognition of the 25 Transformational Canadians' efforts, Cisco will donate up to $25,000 worth of technology to the non-profit or charitable organization of each winner's choice. The technology will be donated in partnership with Allstream. Judge Seamus O'Regan was quick to lend a hand to the project. “I'm delighted to be involved in this because it gives us an opportunity to tell the stories of these transformational Canadians,” says Mr. O'Regan, co-host of CTV's Canada AM. “What we want to do is inspire others, both of this generation and the next.” How to get involved Submit your nominations today. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/25/article1702824.ece We promise it will be a transformative experience for all Canadians. Nominations close on Friday, Nov. 26, 2010. The Transformational Canadians program ends on January 3, 2011, with an overview of the winners. In the final instalment, these extraordinary people will share their ideas about how the next generation of Canadians can make a difference. - -- -- General Contact Information Contact Us Please complete the form below to send us your comments. http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/help/contact-paper/ Letters to The Editor; Letters@globeandmail.com ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #121 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)