Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, October 7 2010 Volume 14 : Number 122 In this issue: re: 12(7) Montreal Gazette - Online menace isn't 'just a joke' - police "The Gazette-More charges...against man accused of death threats" regarding: Alberta alone in opposition to gun registry RE: Editorial: New U.S. gun law should have us fired up Lawyers amongst us Tritium sights and the venerable .38-40 FW: Letter to the Editor - Suicides and the Long Gun Registry Re: erroneous polls aren't accidental -Digest V14 #121 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 12:58:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: re: 12(7) - --- On Tue, 10/5/10, Todd Birch wrote: > So .... since my wife is a licenced handgun owner, but not granfathered > 12(6), I can transfer a pre-1946 12(6) to her while I am still alive? > > Has anyone done this? We have the download from the RCMP and it is > ambiguously worded in 'legalise'. It implies that she must be currently > so licenced. Nope, all it says is that she must be *eligible* to be so licenced, by being one of the "approved" relationships noted in the section. She should easily get a 12(7) licence so you can transfer your pre-1946 12(6) gun to her. Then again, I'm not a CFO, so what do I know? Yours in TYRANNY! Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:58:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Montreal Gazette - Online menace isn't 'just a joke' - police http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Online+menace+just+joke+police/3623804/story.html Online menace isn't 'just a joke'- police 'We have to help them develop empathy,' McGill professor says of cyberbullies By KATHERINE WILTON, The Gazette October 5, 2010 When a former classmate recently contacted David Abitbol on Facebook, the two old friends began reminiscing about their time together at a primary school in Montreal North. But before long, the chatter and texts between the two men turned sinister, with Abitbol suggesting that some of the teachers at Ecole Rene Guenette deserved to die. After being arrested Saturday for uttering death threats, 28-year-old Abitbol told reporters he was "just joking around" and his comments were "foolishness." He insisted he never planned to harm anyone. But the Surete du Quebec's cybercrimes unit, which investigated the case, thought otherwise and moved swiftly to silence Abitbol. Less than 24 hours after receiving a call from a member of the public saying Abitbol had posted "death threats on a social networking web-site," police arrested him at the Montreal North home he shares with his parents. Police seized five guns, all of which were registered, along with many rounds of ammunition, SQ Sgt. Claude Denis said. Investigators searching though Abitbol's Internet postings discovered he shares eerie similarities with Kimveer Gill, the gunman who killed 18-year-old Anastasia De Sousa and injured 20 other people during a rampage at Dawson College in 2006. Gill took his own life after being shot by a police officer. Both owned guns, joined gun clubs and made online references to violence and death. Abitbol has been detained since his arrest and is to have a bail hearing tomorrow after being charged with uttering death threats and improperly storing a firearm. Police say his arrest should serve as a warning to young people that authorities are taking cyberbullying and cyberthreats as seriously as threats made in person or over the telephone. "Making death threats against someone -whether in person or online -is never acceptable, even if it is intended as a joke," Denis said. "If you chat with someone about death threats, you risk being arrested if we find out about it. Saying it is 'just a joke' is not acceptable. It is like if you go to the airport and make a joke about there being a bomb. It is not the kind of joke to be making." On his Facebook page, Abitbol calls himself David Darkiller and lists his favourite quotation as: "Death is the only solution." He lists two of his favourite websites as being titled "Guns" and "Sniper," a site for sharpshooters. Shaheen Shariff, a McGill University professor who studies cyberbullying, commended the SQ's quick response to the complaint. "It has to be taken seriously," she said. "It is a very serious threat and the police have to be vigilant." Shariff said more needs to be done to educate young people about the damaging effects of online threats and bullying. They need to understand there is a fine line between joking and harming someone or doing something illegal. "They don't see that line," said Shariff, an associate professor in McGill's education faculty. "We are seeing more and more young people and teenagers ... using threatening expressions. They see it as jokes, as a competition about who can write the worst threats." Over the past few weeks, the media have been full of horrific stories of young people using the Internet to humiliate and harm their peers. A British Columbia teenager was arrested last week for distributing and producing child pornography after photos of a gang rape of a 16-year-old girl appeared on the Internet. Last month, a New Jersey university student committed suicide by jumping off a bridge after discovering that his roommate had used a webcam to surreptitiously broadcast a sexual encounter involving the student and another man in his dorm room. By dismissing nasty comments and online pranks as "just joking around," young people lose sight of the impact their mean-spirited actions have on the person being targeted, Shariff said. "We have to help them develop empathy," she said. "We have to make them realize that these threats could be made against their parents or a sister or themselves. It could end up being you at some point." Katherine Wilton kwilton@montrealgazette.com Letters To The Editor E-Mail your letter to; letters@thegazette.canwest.com On-line Letter Submissions form; http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/letters/letters-to-the-editor.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:00:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: "The Gazette-More charges...against man accused of death threats" Subject: "Montreal Gazette - More charges possible against man accused of death threats" http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/More+charges+possible+against+accused+death+threats/3623802/story.html More charges possible against man accused of death threats By SUE MONTGOMERY, The Gazette October 5, 2010 Ignoring decorum, Joseph and Michele Abitbol stood in the courtroom yesterday waving frantically but in vain for an acknowledgment from their son, who stood handcuffed, dishevelled and dazed in the prisoner's box. David Abitbol, 28, faces charges of making death threats on the Internet and improperly storing a firearm. But there could be more charges laid as new information from the police investigation was revealed yesterday to the Crown and the defence. To give them time to go over the evidence, yesterday's bail hearing was put off until tomorrow. Abitbol was arrested by Montreal and Surete du Quebec police officers at 3 a.m. Saturday at his parents' Gouin Blvd. E. home, and was arraigned on the two charges. He was then sent for emergency psychosocial testing by a criminologist at the Philippe Pinel Institute, but crown prosecutor Steeve Lariviere said he couldn't reveal details of the test. The results will determine whether Abitbol is fit to stand trial. Lariviere objects to Abitbol's release on bail, saying it would undermine the public's trust in the judicial system and pose a danger to society. Abitbol's parents defended their son Sunday, saying he plays online war games for relaxation and the whole debacle is a misunderstanding. Police seized five guns, for which he has permits, from his parents' home. But the weapons weren't locked up. Abitbol has belonged to a gun club for the past several years. Sue Montgomery smontgomery@montrealgazette.com Letters To The Editor E-Mail your letter to; letters@thegazette.canwest.com On-line Letter Submissions form; http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/letters/letters-to-the-editor.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 15:30:02 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: regarding: Alberta alone in opposition to gun registry Date: Wed, October 6, 2010 8:00 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: POLL: Alberta alone in opposition to gun registry CALGARY HERALD - OCTOBER 6, 2010 Alberta alone in opposition to gun registry Only province where majority against it, says poll BY MARK KENNEDY, POSTMEDIA NEWS OCTOBER 6, 2010 http://www.calgaryherald.com/Alberta+alone+opposition+registry/3630322/story.html Two-thirds of Canadians support the controversial long-gun registry, but Alberta stands out for its opposition to the database, a new poll has found. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hasn't it been said, "polls were for dogs?" Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:58:05 -0600 From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: RE: Editorial: New U.S. gun law should have us fired up To: "'mred'" Sorry Ed: But if we don't respond to the anti's then who will? Dennis > -----Original Message----- > From: mred [mailto:mred@295.ca] > Sent: October-06-10 3:08 PM > To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca; dhyoung@shaw.ca > Subject: Re: Editorial: New U.S. gun law should have us fired up > > why do you keep sending us this garbage ? We KNOW what the antis are up > to we dont NEED anymore of their srtupid propaganda > ed/on > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" >> To: "Firearms Digest" >> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:41 AM >> Subject: Editorial: New U.S. gun law should have us fired up >> >> >> THE BARRIE EXAMINER - OCTOBER 6, 2010 >> >> New U.S. gun law should have us fired up >> >> Editorial By BRUCE CAMERON >> - Updated 4 hours ago http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2787166 >> >> It's sometimes worth it sticking my snout south so that I can get a >> better look at exactly who we are here in the Great White North. >> >> A recent new law in Tennessee, Arizona, Virginia and Georgia has cleared >> the way for handgun-permit holders to carry loaded firearms into bars >> and restaurants that serve alcohol. (Eighteen other states say it's >> okay to bring a weapon into a restaurant that serves booze.) >> >> Oh, the visions that coloured the corners of my mind upon first reading >> that news. It's just way too easy to see where this could wind up: >> Couple of half-plastered guys arguing about (for example) who the best >> NASCAR driver is these days; a friendly clash of opinion turns to >> shouts; shouts become shoves; and before you know it, two of the >> approximately 350,000,000 privately owned guns in the U.S. have their >> triggers pulled. >> Then, someone does a body count. If it's horrific enough, the NRA steels >> itself for the media questions about the pervasiveness of fireams with >> the old standby, "Guns don't kill people; people kill people." >> >> >> This new law isn't the whole enchilada in and of itself. The gun lobby >> in the U.S. these days is darned active, trying (state by state) to >> alleviate what it sees as over-regulation when it comes to handgun >> owners hauling their hardware. And in the last couple of years, the >> U.S. Supreme Court has handed down rulings such as District of >> Columbia -v-Heller that say American citizens definitely have a right >> to keep a loaded handgun for home defense. >> >> And how about this related tidbit: Texas Governor Rick Perry last week >> said guns should be allowed on campuses after the Sep. 28 shooting at >> the University of Texas at Austin. (I know. You're probably right now >> wishing you had the very same thing I wish I had -- the gumption to >> call up the good governor and say something like, "Excuse me sir. Just >> a question from a Canadian you've never met but wouldn't that be like, >> uh, dumping gasoline on a ferocious fire started in the first place >> with, um, gasoline?") >> >> As a Canuck, I find it surreal. Over here, the sandpaper-throated >> proclomation of Yosemite Sam: "I'm the roughtest, toughest, he-man >> stuffest hombre that's ever crosse the Rio Grande. An' I ain't no >> namby-pamby." Somewhere over there, the brutal reality of madness, >> spent bullet casings and weeping relatives. All of it within echo of >> that revolutionary bang of a beginning, where the beautiful fumes of >> freedom first entered the nose smelling of gunpowder. >> >> As for finding our national character in gun-related headlines, it's >> interesting how things follow true to form, pretty much what you'd >> expect. >> The national long-gun registry does raise the passion and or ire of >> citizens and federal politicians alike but if you've been listening >> closely since 1995 when the federal Liberals first put the registry >> into law, you'll have heard the sound of clicks. >> >> Millions of clicks, the rattle of computer keyboards, the sound of data >> being gathered on Canadian citizens doing their duty, wondering what the >> point is, wondering how this law is supposed to thwart the real abusers >> of guns, the criminals who generally shy away from telling the >> government how many guns they have. >> >> In Canada, when guns are the news, they're smothered in a billion- >> dollar bureaucracy. In the U.S. it's a case of throwing back a shot >> while hoping not to hear one. Canadians being Canadians, Americans >> being Americans. >> Cheers to the differences, subtle or otherwise, that keep it >> interesting. >> >> >> Bruce Cameron, a news broadcaster for ROCK95/KOOL FM, is a freelance >> writer. He invites you to check out his blog, The Flotsam File. >> >> >> Letter To The Editor >> >> Letter To The Editor On-line Form [500 Words max.] http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/feedback1/LetterToEditor.aspx >> >> >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:44:57 -0400 From: Subject: Lawyers amongst us Surely there are a few lawyers amongst us that could put what was suggested into layman's terms so the general idiocy ...I mean public could understand. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 02:37:16 +0000 From: Trigger Mortis Subject: Tritium sights and the venerable .38-40 I just got a new toy, an S&W 4046. It has night sights, but they are "tired". They don't light up. How do I liven them up? What is the half-life of tritium anyway? Do they need some kind of re-charge? On the rear sight, on the side it says H3. I know tritium has an atomic weight of 3. Is it tritium or is that just a coincidence? Another new toy, not received yet is a Colt New Service, in 38-40. I could use a set of grips for a very large hand (like wood target, or Pachmayr rubber), a set of loading dies,(I like Lyman or RCBS), and some brass. Please advise if you have any of this stuff. Alan Harper alan__harper@hotmail.com SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 6, 2010 10:08 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: FW: Letter to the Editor - Suicides and the Long Gun Registry Cc: "OUTDOORS CAUCUS ASSOCIATION" From: Canadian Outdoor Specialists-Murray & Lisa Martin [murraywritesforu@northwestel.net] Sent: October-06-10 5:49 PM To: Dennis & Hazel Young Subject: Fw: Letter to the Editor - Suicides and the Long Gun Registry As Printed in the 'Whitehorse Star', Oct 1...............Murray Martin - ----- Original Message ----- From: Lauer Family To: Murray Martin Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 6:42 AM Subject: Letter to the Editor - Suicides and the Long Gun Registry Many of the people who want to keep the Long Gun Registry feel that it helps to keep our suicide rates down so I thought I would do some research on this topic. According to the Canadian Mental Health Association, the World Health Organization states that approximately 15 Canadians per 100,000 take their own lives on average per year. Depending on where a person lives, these numbers are higher or lower. For example Inuit people living in Northern Canada have a rate of 60 to 75 suicides per 100,000. Other populations at an increased risk of suicide include youth, the elderly, inmates in correctional facilities, and people with mental illness. Men commit suicide at a rate of four times higher than that of women; however, women attempt suicide 3 to 4 times more often than men. In Yukon, between 2000 and 2009, there were a total of 49 suicides or an average of just under 5 suicides per year. Studies indicate that more than 90 percent of suicide victims have a diagnosable psychiatric illness. Statistics Canada reports that suicide is the eleventh leading cause of death in Canada. So how does this relate to the long-gun registry? First of all, anyone purchasing a long-gun or ammunition must have and show that they have a firearm Possession and Acquisition License (PAL). This remains true whether or not the long gun registry is kept or is repealed. And, as part of the PAL process, your current partner is required to sign off on your application, as are two references that you have known for at least three years. Once you have completed the paperwork and enclosed your fee, your application is sent to the processing center. Your paperwork will be reviewed and sent back to the Chief Firearms Officer for Yukon who will then ensure that a complete background check is done. It is hoped that if a person had a psychiatric illness, this would show up as part of their spouse not signing off on their application or through the background check done by the Chief Firearms Officer for Yukon thus preventing this person from obtaining a PAL and being legally able to purchase a firearm. If people with mental illness issues are getting a PAL under the current process, perhaps we need to look at having the applicant’s doctor also be required to sign off on the application? According to the Centre for Suicide Prevention, the leading cause of death of suicide victims was through hanging at 44%, followed by poisonings at 25%. Firearms related suicides (which could be with long guns which may or may not have been registered or with hand guns) accounted for only 16% of suicides, and other means accounting for the remaining 15%. Eighty-four percent of all suicides had nothing to do with any type of firearm so in the vast majority of cases, the provisions within the Firearms Act would not have done anything to save these people. Since the leading cause of suicide was by hanging, does that mean we should also have a registry of all rope in the country, or that you should need a license just to purchase rope since ropes are used in almost three times as many suicides as compared to a firearm? The rate of deaths by firearms has declined over the past couple of decades. This decline started in 1979, a full 16 years before Bill C-68 was even introduced in 1995 giving us the current Firearms Act. The act regulates the licensing of Canadians and their ability to legally obtain firearms. It also regulates the safe storage and transportation of firearms, as well as giving us the current long gun registry. The requirement to register handguns has been in effect since 1934 in Canada. In 1979 the rate of deaths from firearms was at 5.9 deaths per 100,000. By 1995, that rate had dropped to 3.8 deaths per 100,000 and as of 2002 that rate had dropped to 2.6 deaths per 100,000. Over the same period of time, 80% of all firearms related deaths in Canada were suicides. Homicides usually account for around 15% of the total firearms related deaths and the remaining 5% involving a firearm were from unintentional deaths. The rate of homicides involving a firearm fell from 0.8 deaths per 100,000 in the early 1980s to 0.4 in 2002. This trend mirrored a decline in the overall homicide rate, although the share of homicides in which a firearm was used remained fairly stable over the entire period at just under one-third (over two-thirds of all homicides in Canada involve something other than a firearm). A report based on police records indicates that handguns accounted for two-thirds of firearm homicides in 2002. Rifles and shotguns accounted for one-quarter of all homicides involving firearms and the remainder was committed with other types of firearms. Again, keeping or scrapping the long gun registry would have little impact on homicides since two-thirds of them are with handguns which have been registered since 1934. In 1979, 71 Canadians died from unintentional firearms-related injuries representing a rate of 0.3 deaths per 100,000. By 2002, this rate was one-third that of the 1979 rate with only 31 people unintentionally killed by firearms. This reduction in accidental deaths may be attributed to the changes with Bill C-68 regarding safe storage and transportation of firearms. Again, it is important to note that Bill C-391 only called for the elimination of the Long Gun Registry and did not propose any changes to other provisions in the Firearms Act such as the licensing process or the safe storage and transportation of firearms. Some of the groups and individuals who want to keep the registry may not have a proper understanding of just what is included in the Firearms Act or what was proposed in Bill C-391. As the statistics show, 90% of all suicides are people with mental health issues so perhaps we would be better off investing tax dollars in more mental health programs than in a registry that does nothing more than count legally purchased firearms. Lets make sure that we continue to have an informed discussion on this topic and that we “keep it or scrap it” for the right reasons, not because people “think” that they will be safer because somewhere there is a database with long guns which have been legally purchased and registered. Michael Lauer National Councilor – Yukon Conservative Party of Canada - - 30 – Contact if needed: lauer@navigonet.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 00:23:31 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: erroneous polls aren't accidental -Digest V14 #121 Anyone who believes this poll is more than a little naive. Similar polls surfaced when the Liberals proposed C-68 in 1994-95. The MSM/Liberal coalition can generate most any poll result they want. They had the politicians bamboozled until the resistance started one night in Preeceville, Saskatchewan. It spread like a prairie fire, tired, fearful and angry at the political persecution(C-17) firearms owners, hunters, farmers and sympathizersrose in a populist movement. We pressured our provincial politicians to rally to defend provincial jurisdiction and our interests. Within months most of the provincial governments opposed the federal Liberals C-68. Proving beyond a doubt that the polls were obviously erroneous. That was temporarily so successful that by April 26, 1994 C-68 was becoming a liability for the federal Liberals. Then by May 1st, pressure was "redirected", allowing the provincial bureaucrats/operators/politicians to switch to a "token" opposition, just enough to benefit themselves politically. And then eventually to let firearms owners twist in the wind bereft of Constitutional Rights. The Conservatives support for Possession Licences being the "public safety" guarantee provides a political cover for the resulting police raids. Thus if a tempoary Possession Licence is equated with Public Safety than by deduction an expired one must be.... Believe me, you've not seen anything yet. This is just the beginning. It's interesting to see the concern in Greg Illerbrun's letter. He's a former Mountie. Over the last 60 years we've given refuge to many who faced political persecution and police state repression in their homelands. By chance I met one the other day. The story of his country suffering a brutal military coup is well known. He added something I'd not heard before, about how the coup leaders used firearm registration for a massive civilian disarmament program before the real coup was staged. He is truly frightened. He lived through a nightmare. To face the prospect that such a thing is looking possible here ... it has a much deeper meaning. I could see it in his eyes, hear it in his tone of voice. It made me ashamed of what we are becoming. Today, they are more subtle. But there are at least 1.8 million on their list and time is on their side. They don't worry about running out of citizen's money to spend violating citizen's rights. On 6-Oct-10, at 3:08 PM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Date: Wed, October 6, 2010 8:00 am > From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" > Subject: POLL: Alberta alone in opposition to gun registry > > CALGARY HERALD - OCTOBER 6, 2010 > > Alberta alone in opposition to gun registry > Only province where majority against it, says poll > > BY MARK KENNEDY, POSTMEDIA NEWS OCTOBER 6, 2010 http://www.calgaryherald.com/Alberta+alone+opposition+registry/3630322/story.html > > Two-thirds of Canadians support the controversial long-gun > registry, but Alberta stands out for its opposition to the database, a > new poll has found. > > The national survey conducted exclusively for Postmedia News and > Global Television finds that support for the registry stands at 66 per > cent nationally. In Alberta, the only place where the majority oppose > the gun registry, the public is basically split -- with just over half > (53 per cent) in opposition and the rest (47 per cent) supporting the > registry. > > Support, however, is strong in regions throughout the country -- even > though Harper has said his party will not "rest" until it abolishes > the registry. > > But the poll also finds that although Harper is running counter to > public opinion on the issue, his stance is only deepening his support > among fervent Tories and that the NDP risks losing votes in the next > election among Canadians unhappy with that party's internal > divisions. > > "This has very substantive resonance and support across the country," > Ipsos Reid senior vice-president John Wright said Tuesday of the > registry. > > "Despite all of its woes about the money spent, it seems most people in > this country think that it's a good thing and that if you have a gun it > should be registered. > > Clearly, the police departments and others who have waded in have had an > effect." > > The survey, conducted Sept. 27 to Oct. 4, comes in the wake of a highly > publicized parliamentary battle in which Conservative MP Candice > Hoeppner failed in her effort to abolish the registry. > > Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff had required several of his MPs who > previously opposed the registry to vote to support it in the Commons, > and several New Democrat MPs chose on their own to also switch their > votes. > > The new poll finds that support for the registry is highest in Quebec (81 > per cent), followed by Ontario (66 per cent) British Columbia (61 per > cent), Atlantic Canada (59 per cent) and Saskatchewan/Manitoba (57 per > cent). > > > © Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald > > > Letters To The Editor > E-mail: letters@theherald.canwest.com > > On-line Letters Submission Formm; http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/letters/letters-to-the-editor.html ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #122 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)