Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, October 9 2010 Volume 14 : Number 127 In this issue: Re: Angus introduces Bill C-580 NDP flip-flop-flips on the gun registry. Re: "Turncoat" Charlie Angus' Bill RE: From soldiering to the streets [Excerpt] Re: Where do they come from? Right to have an attorney present during interrogation regarding: TORONTO SUN: NDP has gun registry fix Re: No right to lawyer during questioning Re: No right to lawyer during questioning Re: Rights Saskatoon: The SP - And one final federal tidbit [Article Excerpt] Regina Leader-Post: Letter - 'Conspiracy-theory thinking' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 08:12:52 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Angus introduces Bill C-580 This is worse than what we have now ~!!!! This is definitley going to my MP with my exhortation to vote against it... Ed/On P.S. Welcome to Russia, Nazi Germany, China, North korea, Mexico, Uganda et al. Who says we`re not a third world country? - ----- Original Message ----- From: <10x@telus.net> To: Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 11:43 PM Subject: Re: Angus introduces Bill C-580 > At 11:01 PM 10/8/2010 -0400, you wrote: > >>[Moving the yardsticks for the gun owners of Canada] >> >>40th PARLIAMENT, 3rd SESSION >>EDITED HANSARD =95 NUMBER 080 >> >>Friday, October 8, 2010 > http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=40&Ses=3&DocId=4685293 >> >>(1205) >> >>Criminal Code >> >> >>Mr. Charlie Angus (Timmins=97James Bay, NDP) moved for leave to introduce >>Bill C-580, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Firearms Act and the >>Contraventions Act (long guns). > > This is Mr. Angus's bill. > > http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Docid=3D4688255&fi= > le=3D4 > > > Please take note of the following portions of the bill: > > Aboriginal rights > > > This is the fix for the Inuit challenge to the firearms act. > > 117.111 For greater certainty, no proceeding for an offence under any of > sections 90, 91, 93, 97, 101, 104 and 105 may have the effect of > abrogating > or derogating from any existing aboriginal or treaty rights of the > aboriginal peoples of Canada under section 35 of the Constitution Act, > 1982. > > This will allow folks under treaty to possess firearms without a license. > And make every other Canadaian much less "equal".... > > 4. Section 117.15 of the Act is amended by adding the following after > subsection (2) > (3) The Governor in Council may make regulations requiring a manufacturer > or importer to provide information for the purpose of establishing that > the > thing in question is reasonable for use in Canada for hunting or sporting > purposes > > 5. Section 5 of the Firearms Act is amended by adding the following after > subsection 5(2): > > > Disclosure of records > > > (2.1) The following records shall be disclosed to a chief firearms officer or, on a reference under section 74, a provincial court judge, in order to > determine whether a person is eligible to hold a licence under subsection > (1), namely, any record that indicates that the person > > > (a) has been a member of and discharged from a law enforcement agency or > the Canadian Forces or other military entity; or > > > (b) has applied to become a member of a law enforcement agency or the > Canadian Forces or other military entity and has been rejected. > > The following will throw a screw into milsurp imports > 46. An authorization to import goods described in section 43 shall include > the serial numbers of those goods and may be issued to a business only if > the business that applies for such an authorization > > and this one is open to abuse by CBSA Bureaucrats > (2) Paragraph 46(b) of the Act is replaced by the following: > > (b) identifies those goods in the prescribed manner, including by > providing > their serial numbers; > > (I have imported off road motorcycles. CBSA did everything possible to > block the import even though I had met all of the requirements and had all > of the PROPER documentation). > > No fee payable > > > (1.1) Despite subsection (1), no fee shall be paid for a registration > certificate for a firearm that is neither a prohibited firearm nor a > restricted firearm. > > The sky is the limit on restricted and prohibited. An example is the > "machine gun tax" in the U.S. pushing prices up to beyond reasonable. > > The following section places limits on executors lawfully carrying out the > terms of a will > (and that is wrong) > (b) a person who comes into possession of a firearm by operation of law > and > who, within 90 days or such longer period as may be granted by a chief > firearms officer under subsection (2.1), lawfully disposes of it or > obtains > a registration certificate for it; or > > > > > (3) Section 112 of the Act is amended by adding the following after > subsection (2): > > > > (2.1) A chief firearms officer may grant an extension of the 90-day period > referred to in paragraph (2)(b) of no more than 90 days, if the chief > firearms officer determines, on the basis of prescribed considerations, > that granting the extension is warranted and that the person seeking the > extension meets the following conditions: > > (a) the person applies to the chief firearms officer for an extension of > time within the 90-day period referred to in paragraph (2)(b); and > > (b) the person is unable to dispose of the firearm or obtain a > registration > certificate for it within the 90-day period referred to in paragraph > (2)(b) > because of prescribed circumstances. > > This places a liability on executor. Executors that make mistakes ( do not > apply for an extension) when carrying out the terms of the will can be > sued > by the heir for lost value. > > The bottom line - this amendment does nothing to "fix" the firearms act. > but it serves to create legal liability for executors and place limits on > executors. > > No fix here folks, move along! > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:12:36 -0400 From: Barry Glasgow Subject: NDP flip-flop-flips on the gun registry. From: Barry Glasgow [mailto:barryglasgow@yahoo.com] Sent: October-09-10 10:07 AM To: ON Kingston Whig-Standard; ON Brockville Recorder & Times; ON Toronto Globe and Mail; ON Woodstock Sentinel-Review; ON Ottawa Metro; ON Ottawa Dose; ON Cochrane Times-Post; ON Durham News; ON Etobicoke Guardian; ON Flamborough Review; ON Flamborough Post; ON Global News-Toronto; ON Hamilton Spectator; ON Hill Times; ON Kapuskasing Northern Times; ON Kitchener-Waterloo Recorder; ON London London FreePress; ON Milton Canadian-Champion; ON Missisauga News; ON Niagara-Falls Review; ON Northern Daily; ON Oakville Beaver; ON Ottawa Ottawa Citizen; ON Ottawa Sun; ON Peterborough Examiner; ON Pulse News-24; ON Sarnia Observer; ON Sault Star; ON Sudbury Star; ON Thunder Bay Chronicle; ON Thunder Bay's Source; ON Tillsonburg News; ON Timmins Times; ON Timmins Daily Press; ON Toronto Sun; ON Toronto Star; ON Toronto Mirror-Guardian; ON Windsor Star Cc: Angus.C@parl.gc.ca; breitg1b@parl.gc.ca; Layton.J@parl.gc.ca Subject: NDP flip-flop-flips on the gun registry. [permission to print is granted - Barry Glasgow] NDP MP's like Charlie Angus had "legitimate concerns about the costs of the registry, its effectiveness and whether or not it is used effectively by police" yet voted against his constituents will by maintaining the long gun registry. Angus even went so far as to claim that the Conservative bill that he helped shoot down was merely a political ploy. But now this same hypocrite wants to introduce a watered down version of the bill that does not reduce registry costs or increase its effectiveness or its usefulness - in order to save his political hide. I hope his constituents give him what he deserves next election - a one way ticket to join the 200-plus government workers at the Mirimachi gun registry. ====================== PS: By the way Charlie, the majority of gun purchases are transfers from other owners which don't cost anything anyway. But I would like you to explain to your constituents how getting rid of registration revenue reduced registry costs. Barry Glasgow RR#2, Woodlawn, Ontario Canada K0A 3M0 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 14:28:49 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: "Turncoat" Charlie Angus' Bill - ----- Original Message ----- From: <10x@telus.net> To: Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 7:01 AM Subject: Re: "Turncoat" Charlie Angus' Bill > At 09:35 PM 10/8/2010 -0700, you wrote: > >>This is an Opposition Member's Private Members Bill - so how much of a >>chance does it have on getting a slot on the Order Paper? Aren't the >>opposition parties given a set number of slots to put Bills into the >>rotation? Does anyone have a clear idea of how this works? >> >>Yours in TYRANNY! >>Bruce >> > > Take 10 (TEN) minutes to read the bill. > It does nothing to "fix" the gun laws. It just allows folks under treaty > to operate without a firearms license or registerer guns and it makes it > more dfficult for executors to carry out the terms of a will in regards > to firearms. This is done through the addition of a 90 day term to > "dispose" of firearms where the executor has to apply for extention > after extension if there are delays in disposing of the firearms. The way I read the bill is that there is only ONE 90 day extension allowed and THAT ? if the FO concurs. ed/on > The concept that the bill is a fix for anything rural / Urban is a lie > pure and simple. > > Any individual supporting this bill and claiming it is a "fix" should be > voted out of office. > > The text of Mr. Angus's bill is here. > http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Docid=4688255&file=4 > > Too bad the media can not figure out that they are being played for fools by Mr. Angus et co. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 14:24:12 -0400 From: Mark L Horstead Subject: RE: From soldiering to the streets [Excerpt] > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca] On Behalf Of Lee Jasper > Sent: 9-Oct-10 10:14 AM > To: Canadian Firearms Digest > Subject: From soldiering to the streets [Excerpt] > > [Just think what the $1.1 Bil spent of G-8 and G-20 and $90 > Mil spent on dressing up Tony Panayi's Muskoka riding could > have done to resolve this problem]. > > From soldiering to the streets > > By KATHLEEN HARRIS, QMI Agency > > Last Updated: October 9, 2010 8:53am > > > http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/10/08/15633631.html > > VICTORIA, B.C. - He wore the uniform with pride for 15 years, > and never had to fire at the enemy. > > But after leaving the military, he battled his own demons and > tried to kill himself four times. > > Spiralling into depression, alcoholism and self-destruction > after he was honourably discharged from the Canadian Forces, > Robert Waller spent his post-service years in despair and on > the streets. > > "For me it was the most difficult thing of my life, and I > couldn't cope," he says of the transition from military to > civilian life. "I never did find my niche after I got out of > the service, to this day, and it's been 20 years now." > > Waller, 60, is among what some estimate to be a legion of > thousands of homeless war veterans and ex-CF members. Pushed > to the edge by post-traumatic stress disorder, addictions or > family breakdown, they endure crushing poverty and > ultimately, utter desperation. > > Some are debilitated by the psychological scars, or physical > wounds, of war. Others couldn't cope with the abrupt return to > society after a structured, disciplined life in the Canadian > Forces. Some say scant support was there to help them make a > successful transition. > > [The regular cheque writers to Harps should be clambering > over this. Now he's got the goodwill from citizens for being > a 'troop booster' he ignores them like they're dirty linen. I > worked numerous cases like the ones in the article over the > years and there were simply not enough supports available. In > most cases, the former military types lacked marketable > skills before they entered the CF so one was faced with > people needing complete retraining plus re-integration > services and resolution of various demons. Thank gosh they're > not packing a side arm to defend themselves from spooks and > Taliban lurking in the shadows of their minds]. A good part of my reaction to this article is "so what"? While one can have a reasonable expectation that sufficient care will be provided to those injured (physically, mentally, or both) in their nation's service, there are limits to that, else it is no longer "reasonable" expectation. Ultimately, a person is responsible for his or her life. Somebody who fails to provide for his or her life after a military career of whatever length is no different than somebody who fails to provide for his or her life after any career. None of the problems mentioned in this article are exclusive to military people. There are problems with the New Veterans' Charter - a Lieberal creation - and the fixes are too long in coming. There are problems with the Department of Veterans' Affairs, mostly due to the bureaucrats within, the same breed that writes such things as firearms legislation. This Government has done fairly well for us, so far. It is still a government of politicians, however. Your last statement is either brilliantly sarcastic or highly offensive. I'm not sure which. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 08:23:24 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Where do they come from? Oscar spent a year in Kazakhstan as an English teacher, volunteer and intern with United Nations Volunteers. Is it me or is it a coincidence how the UN keeps popping up in any thing to do with human rights violations ? ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Mills" To: Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:05 AM Subject: Where do they come from? > I wonder who's paying his way through all these degrees and activities? > > http://advocacynet.org/page/oalvarado > > Oscar Alvarado is honored to serve as a Peace Fellow in Toronto, Canada > working with The Coalition for Gun Control. The Coalition for Gun Control > is an alliance of more than 300 major policing, public safety and > violence prevention organizations whose mission is to reduce and prevent > gun violence, injury and crime. > > Oscar, a dual Canadian citizen, was born in Panama and has been raised > all over the world ever since. After completing a BA&Sc in Biomedical > Science and Economics from McGill University, Oscar spent a year in > Kazakhstan as an English teacher, volunteer and intern with United > Nations Volunteers. > > His desire for a multi-disciplinary understanding of socio-environmental > issues immediately led him to pursue a MA in Environmental Security from > the United Nations-mandated University for Peace in Costa Rica. In > particular, his research interests include redefining the perception of > the environment in contemporary security discourses and analyzing the > linkages between environmental stress and conflict escalation. During > this time, Oscar also volunteered as an environmental educator and > contributed to several locally-based environmental initiatives. > > Before moving to Toronto, Oscar was an intern at the Security > Governance / Counter-Terrorism Laboratory of the United Nations > Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute (UNICRI) in Turin, > Italy. This applied research institute is currently at the forefront of > identifying emerging security challenges while facilitating > comprehensive responses through knowledge management and technical > cooperation. Here, Oscar contributed to several reports with topics > ranging from the illicit trafficking of weapons to the risks associated > with emerging nano and biotechnologies. > > Oscar’s academic, professional and volunteer work has taken him to all > seven continents and he is currently fluent in English, Spanish and > French with working knowledge of Russian and Italian. He is excited to > contribute his knowledge and passion to The Coalition for Gun Control > and its efforts to create more peaceful societies in Canada. > > Email Oscar. > oalvarado@advocacynet.org > > Read Oscar's Blog > http://advocacynet.org/wordpress-mu/oalvarado ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 14:34:24 -0400 From: Subject: Right to have an attorney present during interrogation Has anyone noticed that your rights are being whittled down piece by piece. Of course not, we are firearms owners and we are too stupid to see this and grasp what this means. Seems gun owners are mostly dumber than dirt. They see their rights eroded and extinguished, and like the Jews of Hitler's Germany they are ready willing and able to walk to their doom. They do nothing, say nothing, hope some else will stand up and take one for the team. History is repeating itself good and gentle readers. Take a good long look at your family, the kids, the cars and house bank accounts because they are all yours to loose. Why ? Simple because you have all failed to understand what is happening and to understand yourselves. If 7.5 million gun owners cannot speak with one united voice, then let us not complain when more rights are removed, extinguished and truncated by the Supreme Court or the Police make more demands for power. Just shut and keep quiet, it will pass like a good bout of Diarrhea. I am so deeply disappointed for my fellow firearm's owners. I thought we were made of sterner stuff, but the cry we hear is just a whimper as the usual suspects stand up for the rest of the useless anal opening that freeload off the others. I can no longer tolerate the quislings, the whiners, I canter, do nothings and those who play one off against the other. Except for the usual suspects who I will correspond with, this digest is hopeless. It is not about which caliber makes a good wildcat cartridge, or what recipe for moose. You are not going to have your guns long enough to get recipes. Until the RFC speak with one voice, one group and not the current CSSA and NFA, take one long last hard look at your guns because sooner rather than later they will be distant memories. I want to be proven wrong, but far too many of our rights have been expunged and we are past the point of retrieving them. It's not the guns Stupid, it's the rights. You wont have the one without the other. This digest is now a thing of the past. Perhaps gun owners will wake up, but I fear we are too far down that slope to be effective anymore. The Coalition for Gun Control, Iansa, the Un have won. We have failed miserably. Remember that if you do get jammed up by this Police Function, they cannot as yet beat you with a rubber hose although I suspect the police will apply for that power as well. So good and gentle readers, you are on your own, Keep your powder dry, and remember what it was like many years ago when you were truly free. Those days are gone. History is about to repeat itself, and you will have all deserved what you get. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2010 12:48:56 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: regarding: TORONTO SUN: NDP has gun registry fix Date: Fri, October 8, 2010 8:19 pm From: "Greg Illerbrun" Subject: Re: TORONTO SUN: NDP has gun registry fix C-68 contains all the elements to make the Liberal /NDP dream come true. The compromise suggested by both the Liberals and NDP is a farce!! Greg Illerbun Firearms Chairman Sask. Wildlife Federation - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who is actuating Bill C-68 and the Lieberal/NDP dream? Conservative Prime Minister Kim Campbell enforcing her Bill C-17 of 1991 and Conservative Prime Minister Steven Harper enforcing the Lieberal's Bill C-68 of1995 have together confiscated more firearms from the Cdn. firearms community than any other govt. in Canadian history. Actions speak louder than words and always remember, "never forgive, never forget." Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 11:51:38 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Re: No right to lawyer during questioning You now have the 'right to remain' where, previously, you had the right to remain silent . . I STRONGLY SUGGEST . . you keep that last right . keep your ' cake hole ' shut . . . Len On 9-Oct-10, at 11:38 AM, mred wrote: > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 7:56 AM > Subject: No right to lawyer during questioning > >> The Supremes have decided that is you are abducted by the Police >> for an alleged offence you do not have the right to have an attorney >> present during questioning. >>snipped<< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 11:54:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: No right to lawyer during questioning - --- On Sat, 10/9/10, ross.j@rogers.com wrote: > Why do the Police feel a need to remove our rights and render us > incapable of defending ourselves? > Perhaps some intrepid reader will begin this discussion. Authority attracts authoritarians. Authoritarians seek more authority. > The Police state is now confirmed in Canada by the Supreme > court because they do not want to import the Miranda Warning. > How many Canadians will now have their rights abused ? All of them. I have two words for you to say to any lawyer the po-leece allow you to contact: "Habeus Corpus". Yours in TYRANNY! Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 12:00:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Rights - --- On Sat, 10/9/10, Walter Martindale wrote: > In light of the recent SCC decision, > I wonder - is Canada signatory to the > Universal Declaration of Human Rights?=A0 This question > comes to mind as I > bumped into the UDHR yesterday while perusing a National > Geographic at the doc's office. Yes, we are. However, I don't know how much, if any, of it has been "ratified by legislation" yet. If you look up the UNDHR website, they should have a list of signatories, which should show that info. > Seems our Supreme Court don't really respect us too much. Of course they don't - they're "E-LEETS"! They know better than everyone else, especially us pe(e)ons. Yours in TYRANNY! Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 19:54:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Saskatoon: The SP - And one final federal tidbit [Article Excerpt] http://www.thestarphoenix.com/business/lagged+Krawetz+makes+flub/3648860/story.html Jet-lagged Krawetz makes fat cat flub By James Wood, The StarPhoenix October 9, 2010 And one final federal tidbit. Conservative Garry Breitkreuz, the longtime Yorkton-Melville MP known for his implacable fight against the federal gun registry, has been replaced as chair of the House of Commons committee on public safety and security. James Wood's E-Mail; jwood@sp.canwest.com Letters To The Editor E-Mail your letter to; citydesk@sp.canwest.com On-line Letter Submissions Form; http://www.thestarphoenix.com/opinion/letters/letters-to-the-editor.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 20:54:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Regina Leader-Post: Letter - 'Conspiracy-theory thinking' http://www.leaderpost.com/opinion/letters/Conspiracy+theory+thinking/3641317/story.html 'Conspiracy-theory thinking' By Tom Lukiwski, The Leader-Post October 8, 2010 In his Sept. 29 column, Murray Mandryk claims that, following the defeat of the private member's bill to scrap the failed gun registry, the "logical course of events" is to pass legislation to "fix" the firearms registry. I disagree with his interpretation of "logical." The Conservative party has maintained from the beginning that the firearms registry is a flawed, unfair and money-wasting institution. In every election since the registry was established, our MPs have been consistent in campaigning against it. We are not alone in our opposition to the registry. In total, 20 Liberal and NDP MPs supported scrapping the firearms registry on the private member's bill's second reading. This is a key fact that Mandryk ignores: a majority of MPs, left to vote their own consciences, oppose the firearms registry. The registry survived only because the Liberal caucus forced its members to support it through a whipped vote and because NDP leader Jack Layton browbeat his dissenting caucus members into changing their votes. Mandryk cynically suggests that the Conservative party wants the firearms registry to stick around so we can use it as some sort of political whipping boy. This is ridiculous conspiracy-theory thinking. Our party's opposition to the firearms registry has cost us votes in large urban centres like Toronto and Montreal, yet we continue to believe it is important to take this stand on principle. To the members of the federal Conservative caucus, it would be illogical to try to breathe life into a policy we firmly believe is bad for the country. The "logical course of events", as we see it, is to keep up the fight and continue to make our best efforts to abolish the registry sooner rather than later. Tom Lukiwski Regina Lukiwski is the Conservative MP for Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre. PARLINFO - Parliamentarian File Contact Information - LUKIWSKI, Tom http://www2.parl.gc.ca/parlinfo/Files/Parliamentarian.aspx?Item=fe517b95-bc62-4fe8-96aa-998994aefd48&Language=E&MenuID=Lists.Members.aspx&MenuQuery=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.parl.gc.ca%2Fparlinfo%2Flists%2FMembers.aspx%3FLanguage%3DE%26Parliament%3D8714654b-cdbf-48a2-b1ad-57a3c8ece839%26Riding%3D%26Name%3D%26Party%3D%26Province%3D%26Gender%3D%26New%3DFalse%26Current%3DTrue%26Picture%3DFalse Letters To The Editor E-Mail your letter to; letters@leaderpost.canwest.com, On-line Letter Submissions Form; http://www.leaderpost.com/opinion/letters/letters-to-the-editor.html ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #127 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)