Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, October 10 2010 Volume 14 : Number 128 In this issue: Montreal Gazette - Letter - Credit Facebook Toronto Star - 2 teens shot dead in lobby of Regent Park highrise Re: Saskatoon: The SP - And one final federal tidbit [none] Re: Saskatoon: The SP - And one final federal tidbit Letter to Toronto Star (just sent) ... FW: [KFF] Happy Thanksgiving ! Katey's Rights and Freedom Shooting at the 2010 Commonwealth Games Re: Saskatoon: The SP - And one final federal tidbit Police: N.Y. Teens Attacked Hunter Bigotry against gun owners on display at street fair Shooting at the 2010 Commonwealth Games Column: How efficient is gun registry? by Professor Herb Grubel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 21:09:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Montreal Gazette - Letter - Credit Facebook http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/letters/Credit+Facebook/3642429/story.html Credit Facebook The Gazette October 8, 2010 Re: "Gun registry proves its worth" (Letters, Oct. 7). With all due respect - the credit for the arrest of David Abitbol should go to Facebook, not the gun registry. As a matter of fact, the social network has saved more lives and prevented more tragedy in the last few years than the gun registry did in the last 15 years! And it doesn't cost taxpayers anything to operate. Michel Trahan Verdun Letters To The Editor E-Mail your letter to; letters@thegazette.canwest.com On-line Letter Submissions Form; http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/letters/letters-to-the-editor.html - -- -- Letter Reference = "David Abitbol"; From Bruce Mills Sent Wednesday, October 6, 2010 2:58 pm To cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject Montreal Gazette - Online menace isn't 'just a joke' - police http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Online+menace+just+joke+police/3623804/story.html Online menace isn't 'just a joke'- police 'We have to help them develop empathy,' McGill professor says of cyberbullies By KATHERINE WILTON, The Gazette October 5, 2010 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 21:19:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Toronto Star - 2 teens shot dead in lobby of Regent Park highrise http://www.thestar.com/news/article/873289--2-teens-shot-dead-in-lobby-of-regent-park-highrise?bn=1 2 teens shot dead in lobby of Regent Park highrise Published On Sat Oct 09 2010 Wendy Gillis and Noel Grzetic Staff Reporters Behind an apartment building at 605 Whiteside Place is The Dreamers Peace Garden, an homage to lives lost in violent crimes in Regent Park and a symbol of hope for the future. But in front, a pool of blood and police tape show that violence still plagues one of Toronto’s most troubled communities. Sealand White, 15, and Jermaine Derby, 19, are dead after being gunned down in Regent Park. It’s the city’s second double homicide in as many weeks. Police say the teenagers were leaving a party just after 2 a.m. Saturday and were ambushed as their elevator doors opened onto the lobby of the apartment building near Dundas St. E. and River St. After the attack, one teen went outside the building and fell to the ground and another stayed in the elevator and got out on the 6th floor, collapsing in the hallway, said Toronto Police homicide detective Doug Dunstan. He said police are urging anyone with information about the killings to come forward, especially those who were recently with the victims. “We know that, prior to the shooting, (the victims) were with a large group of people. We would like to speak to those people, but unfortunately we don’t know who they are,” Dunstan said. Fear gripped many residents of the highrise in the aftermath of the violent attacks. Uddin Mohammed, a tenant of five years, was watching TV in his third-floor apartment when he heard the gunshots. He ran to his window and watched the events unfold. “I saw one guy fall down outside,” said Mohammed, who insisted on keeping his children inside on Saturday. “Everybody is scared.” Nazu Begum also happened to be awake around the time of the shooting. “I heard the shooting three or four times,” said Nazu. “It sounded like it was coming from the hallways.” She said the building was very quiet on Saturday, despite many officers milling around outside. Another resident, who asked not to be identified, said she has been locked in her home since the shooting because of police tape around her apartment. Police are looking for suspects, but did not release any other information. These are Toronto’s 47th and 48th homicides of the year. On Sept. 29, 18-year-old Courthney Facey and 23-year-old Mike James were killed when an occupant in a black SUV opened fire. No arrests have been made in that case. Anyone with information is asked to call police or Crime Stoppers at (416) 222-TIPS (8477). - -- -- Letters to the Editor Letters to the Editor E-Mail to lettertoed@thestar.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 05:39:35 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Saskatoon: The SP - And one final federal tidbit At 07:54 PM 10/9/2010 -0700, you wrote: >http://www.thestarphoenix.com/business/lagged+Krawetz+makes+flub/3648860/story.html > >Jet-lagged Krawetz makes fat cat flub > >By James Wood, The StarPhoenix >October 9, 2010 > >And one final federal tidbit. > >Conservative Garry Breitkreuz, the longtime Yorkton-Melville MP known for >his implacable fight against the federal gun registry, has been replaced >as chair of the House of Commons committee on public safety and security. > > >James Wood's E-Mail; >jwood@sp.canwest.com Just who exactly replaced Mr. Breitkreuz? Would the name of the replacement be news? Isn't it the duty of a newspaper to report the news? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 05:50:06 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: [none] At 09:19 PM 10/9/2010 -0700, you wrote: > >http://www.thestar.com/news/article/873289--2-teens-shot-dead-in-lobby-of-regent-park-highrise?bn=1 > >2 teens shot dead in lobby of Regent Park highrise > >Published On Sat Oct 09 2010 >Wendy Gillis >and Noel Grzetic >Staff Reporters > >Behind an apartment building at 605 Whiteside Place is The Dreamers Peace >Garden, an homage to lives lost in violent crimes in Regent Park and a >symbol of hope for the future. snip >Sealand White, 15, and Jermaine Derby, 19, are dead after being gunned >down in Regent Park. snip >He said police are urging anyone with information about the killings to >come forward, especially those who were recently with the victims. > >“We know that, prior to the shooting, (the victims) were with a large >group of people. We would like to speak to those people, but unfortunately >we don’t know who they are,” Dunstan said. Apparently $2 billion plus spent on a firearms owners licensing scheme and a gun registry do nothing to stop criminals from killing folks. Not to mention that the very expensive gun licensing scheme and gun registry will not be used to solve this crime. It is not surprising that miscreants who kill are running loose on the streets while man power and time are diverted to keeping track of gun owners... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 08:47:28 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Saskatoon: The SP - And one final federal tidbit I think he`s one of the last Reformers? This is the CPC and Harpers policy now; to eliminate the Reform element and revert to the good `ole boy Porcgressive Conservative party, ruled by Paul Desmarais. ed/on - --------- Original Message --------- From: "Bruce Mills" To: Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 10:54 PM Subject: Saskatoon: The SP - And one final federal tidbit [Article Excerpt] >http://www.thestarphoenix.com/business/lagged+Krawetz+makes+flub/3648860/story.html > > Jet-lagged Krawetz makes fat cat flub > > By James Wood, The StarPhoenix > October 9, 2010 > > And one final federal tidbit. > > Conservative Garry Breitkreuz, the longtime Yorkton-Melville MP known for > his implacable fight against the federal gun registry, has been replaced > as chair of the House of Commons committee on public safety and security. > > James Wood's E-Mail; > jwood@sp.canwest.com > > Letters To The Editor > E-Mail your letter to; > citydesk@sp.canwest.com > > On-line Letter Submissions Form; > http://www.thestarphoenix.com/opinion/letters/letters-to-the-editor.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:02:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to Toronto Star (just sent) ... Harper majority closer than it appears ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, In perhaps the most ironic revisionism to grace even the Toronto Star's pages, James Travers suggests that it was the Harper Tories who "divid[ed] the country over the long-gun registry". Perhaps Travers has forgotten that it was Alan Rock who "came to Ottawa with the firm belief that only police and military should have guns in Canada", and then criminalized law abiding firearm owners with the Canadian Firearms Act. He was a Liberal. Parliament was poised on the brink of partially undoing an egregious wrong with the private member's bill C-391, Mark Holland introduced a measure to simply end debate and kill the bill. He was a Liberal. By breaking Parliamentary tradition and whipping the caucus over a private member's bill Michael Ignatieff put the Liberal party's misguided philosophy ahead of democracy and the vast majority of Canadians who believe that the registry represents everything which is wrong in Canadian politics today, and is the poster child of bureacratic bungling and waste. No, Mr. Travers, if any party has divided Canada over the long-gun registry it is not the Conservatives, but rather the Liberals in pandering to the "Toronto Elite". If this results in a Tory majority, then I for one am quite ready for it. Bring it on! Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 09:39:01 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca (Majordomo) Subject: FW: [KFF] Happy Thanksgiving ! Katey's Rights and Freedom Bulletin No. 6 is ready for viewing From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Date: Sun, October 10, 2010 9:32 am To: "Firearms Digest" Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca From: Katey Montague [mailto:katey@kateymontague.com] Sent: October-10-10 2:05 AM To: dhyoung@shaw.ca Subject: [KFF] Happy Thanksgiving ! Katey's Rights and Freedom Bulletin No. 6 is ready for viewing Happy Thanksgiving ! The latest issue of my new (and free) Rights and Freedom Bulletin is available here. In this issue: It's Thanksgiving, and we have a lot to be thankful for. What are you thankful for this year? Firearms Marking Regulations that are about to come into force and what you can do to stop that Did you know... You can fill out an Access to Information Request to see what information the government keeps on you and your firearms? Video on the 'net - the effectiveness of Britain's gun control laws Suzanna Hupp - if you've never heard of her, you'll want to hear her story! Some great newspaper editorials, and comments from my YouTube viewers The Commonwealth Games are on! And Canadian shooters are there! Please read it (it's short) and let me know what you think. Sincerely, Katey Montague PS. Please forward this message to everyone you know is interested in freedom! PPS. Please subscribe to my Rights and Freedom Bulletin by clicking here: http://kateysfirearmsfacts.com/newslettersignupem.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, October 10, 2010 9:41 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Shooting at the 2010 Commonwealth Games Shooting at the 2010 Commonwealth Games http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_at_the_2010_Commonwealth_Games [Note: AsstMod-RAM: This Web Site has too much Graphic Content to be displayed on the Digest. Dial-Up Subscribers are looking at a long download time. Just so you know] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:18:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Saskatoon: The SP - And one final federal tidbit - --- On Sun, 10/10/10, 10x@telus.net <10x@telus.net> wrote: > Just who exactly replaced Mr. Breitkreuz? > Would the name of the replacement be news? > Isn't it the duty of a newspaper to report the news? I guess not. They don't have a duty to tell the truth, either... This is from the SECU committee webstie: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=4673186&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=40&Ses=3 MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS Meeting No. 31 Monday, October 4, 2010 The Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security met at 3:34 p.m. this day, in Room 269, West Block, the [chair role], Roger fontaine, presiding. The Clerk of the Committee presided over the election of a Chair. On motion of Dave MacKenzie, it was agreed, That Kevin Sorens on be elected Chair of the Committee. The Clerk of the Committee presided over the election of the Vice-Chairs. On motion of Dave MacKenzie, it was agreed, That Mark Holland be elected First Vice-Chair of the Committee. On motion of Maria Mourani, it was agreed, That Don Davies be elected Second Vice-Chair of the Committee. I subsequently discovered that Garry no longer seems to be on the SECU committee at all: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/CommitteeBusiness/CommitteeMembership.aspx?Cmte=SECU&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=40&Ses=3 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 12:13:14 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Police: N.Y. Teens Attacked Hunter http://www.wgal.com/news/25314658/detail.html Teens Accused In Hunter's Assault Arrested Police: N.Y. Teens Attacked Hunter In Schuylkill County October 7, 2010 FRACKVILLE, Pa. -- Two teens accused of attacking and robbing a hunter on state game lands in Schuylkill County have been arrested in Missouri, state police said. Philip Hemminger, 18, of Black River, N.Y., and Andrew O'Connor, 19, also from New York, were taken into custody Tuesday in Rolla, Mo., troopers at the Frackville barracks said. The teens assaulted William Hankey at gunpoint, stole his Dodge Dakota and other personal items after their truck had broken down. They were apprehended in Missouri, trying to pawn stolen items and driving Hankey's truck. Both have been charged in Schuylkill County with robbery, criminal conspiracy, aggravated assault, theft and arson, and also face charges in Missouri, troopers said. Hemminger's father, Philip Sr., told The Associated Press that his son was being held in lieu of $400,000 bail. He said he wanted to offer his deepest apologies to Hankey. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 12:33:49 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Bigotry against gun owners on display at street fair http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/bigotry-against-gun-owners- on-display-at-street-fair Bigotry against gun owners on display at street fair Gun Rights Examiner David Codrea October 8th, 2010 "Now we are not here to debate their second amendment rights," Thin Ice lead singer Russ Lesser announced to his Manhattan Beach Hometown Fair audience. "However, we are here to exercise our first amendment rights of free speech to ridicule this group for incredible bad taste and stupidity." Ridicule who? Members of South Bay Open Carry, a group that promotes the right to carry handguns openly, in compliance with California law. Some, not used to seeing people exercising even a bit of freedom in this regard, reacted as bigots typically do when confronted with ideas that intrude on their provincial biases: with hostility, ignorance and arrogance. Weighing in on the first count, Lesser's narrow-mindedness was particularly telling, especially considering his influence in the beach community (and beyond). In addition to being in a popular local band, he is also a long-time Manhattan Beach councilman and former mayor, and president of Body Glove International. A fellow-band and family member is a U.S. Attorney, someone who presumably took an oath as a condition to assuming power. So, naturally, they abused their leadership positions and the advantage of a stage to gin up hostility and intolerance. Lesser was right though. They were not there "to debate." They were there to insult, to resort to the childish tactic of questioning the manhood of the open carriers, and to chastise them to "get a life" in a song written especially to attack the gun rights advocates. In other words, these "community leaders" were there to stir up crowd ugliness against a minority they disapprove of. Representing the shallow knee-jerk fear reaction was "resident Elsa Gerard," who stated she would not attend the fair: "I didn't want my children there," said Gerard, who stayed home with her teenage son and 12-year-old twins Saturday. "I felt very uncomfortable with someone who's not a trained police officer in a public place with a weapon." In Elsa's world, a person with a gun and no badge is automatically a murderous threat. Too bad the reporter didn't follow up and ask her what she actually knows about how trained everyone in uniform really is. Too bad the reporter didn't ask her what she knows about the Second Amendment and the Bill of Rights. Too bad the reporter didn't ask her what she knows about the overwhelmingly peaceable conduct of armed citizens who know more about Founding intent than she apparently does. And God forbid she actually expand her horizons and maybe...talk to an open carrier and test her baseless preconceptions? She and those like her are one of the reasons I maintain "The Only Ones" Files--not that many would ever look or be receptive to persuasion. But then, what is bigotry rooted in, if not blind ignorance? And then there's that third pillar in support of hoplophobia, official arrogance, as exemplified by Manhattan Beach Police Chief Rod Uyeda. "I was very saddened," Uyeda said. ". I respect SBOC's right to bear arms, but feel this venue was inappropriate." What he does not say is in which venue he thinks it would be appropriate. And as for "respect[ing] SBOC's right to bear arms," ask him if he'll approve a concealed carry permit for any law-abiding Manhattan Beach citizen who applies for one. Ask him what he'll do if he catches someone with a gun who couldn't get a permit to save his life. Then ask him if he'll acknowledge a legal duty, with attendant liability, to protect individuals who heed his official rejection of their rights and go unarmed. In fact he and the anti-gun establishment he represents were the reason SBOC had to threaten to sue, forcing officials to back down and obey California law. Uyeda's reaction? "I know, in large part, that their decision is also based on your group's threats of a lawsuit naming the fair and each board member personally, and I, along with others, find such tactics very distasteful." A sworn "public servant," whose sole function is to enforce the law, finds having the law applied against illegal obstruction of it "distasteful." But he respects their right. The end result? None of the dire predictions from the gun-haters came true. Most people accepted the presence of armed citizens among them without hate and hysteria, despite the best efforts of "community leaders" and law enforcement administration to foment it. And, in spite of opposition and prejudice against gun advocates assuming their rightful place in their communities, normalization through exposure and engagement continues to prove itself the best way to counter such outright, shameful bigotry. comments: by Robert Fowler 2 days ago "I felt very uncomfortable with someone who's not a trained police officer in a public place with a weapon." I guess she doesn't know that she is 5 times more likely to be shot by a cop than a law abiding citizen that is armed. Or that in general, private citizens practice more than a lot of LEO's. Too many LEO's shoot 1 day and qualify the next, once or maybe twice a year. These hoplophobes just crack me up. Their rights are important to them,, but mine are negotiable. by Anonymous 2 days ago I think we've heard this tune before. The lyrics go something like this: "I support the Second Amendment but....." Then they go on to reveal that they have no idea what the Second Amendment is, what it is for, or to whom it applys. If you catch one of the smarter ones in a candid moment, they may reveal that they know the correct answers, but don't care: i.e. they want it gone or ignored. One "Big But" after another. "Heller? Wasn't that the lady in "The Miracle Worker?" "McDonald? My kids love his big red shoes!" DDS -- NRA Life Member by Anonymous 2 days ago This is Robert- What we have seen displayed here is typical Neo-Nazi behavior where they hid behind one amendment while attacking the amendment that guarentees the one they are hiding behind. Facists use this tactic all the time of insults, childish threats and outright bigotry to get their twisted point of view across. I find it interesting that I asked a cop once what he could do and he said "Anything I want" and I replied, "That's nice because I can only do what the law allows" Does wearing a badge mean he gets to ignore the law? And you know why Russ Lesser did this in my opinion? His band is a loser, he is a loser, and he needs a new venue to get back in the public eye so attack a popular target. I suspect he is not as popular as he once was and his audience is wandering away and even more so now. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 12:23:03 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Shooting at the 2010 Commonwealth Games You'll notice that Canada, once shooting champs at Bisley now have failed to get even a mention at these Games. With the attitude of successive governments . you collectively reduced Canadians to a cowering bunch fearful of even stopping and arresting a shoplifter . WELL DONE GUYS . . Once again the criminal justice industry has ensured the survival of future jobs . . Just think legal aid . . legal aid . welfare for lawyers reduced charges, no worry, that leaves openings for reduced sentences . What would the courts do with less crime? Less jobs . . can't have that can we . ? Begin forwarded message: > From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" > Date: October 10, 2010 8:41:53 AM PDT (CA) > To: "Firearms Digest" > Subject: Shooting at the 2010 Commonwealth Games > > Shooting at the 2010 Commonwealth Games > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_at_the_2010_Commonwealth_Games Len sez: You don't need a gun . . until you need a gun . . then you need one real bad . . Ask Bob and Bonnie Dagenais, or Ray Michaelson . . but then you would have to actually care . . Oh, and lest I forget . . Have a happy thanksgiving . . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, October 10, 2010 2:48 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Column: How efficient is gun registry? by Professor Herb Grubel MONTREAL GAZETTE - OCTOBER 8, 2010 How efficient is gun registry? BY HERBERT GRUBEL, FRASER INSTITUTE, MONTREAL GAZETTE OCTOBER 8, 2010 http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/efficient+registry/3644340/story.html In 1994, when Liberal Justice Minister Allan Rock introduced legislation for the long gun registry, I sat a few feet from him in the House of Commons, serving as a member of the Reform Party caucus. Before Question Period one day, I asked him privately for information to assess the merit of the bill. He promised he would provide it to me but never did. Nor was it produced or considered in the public debates the preceded the vote in Parliament that enacted the gun registry. The information I requested of the Minister was: "What will be the cost per life saved as a result of the existence of the registry?" Limited resources Knowing this cost does not imply a callous disregard for lives. To the contrary, it allows one to judge whether this cost is higher or lower than that of other ways in which lives could be saved through government spending programs. The economic issue is clear. Resources used for one deserving cause are not available for other deserving causes. A calculation of the economic benefit should be used in the evaluation of all proposed government programs. For example, if it costs $10 million to save one life through the registry but it costs only $5 million to save one life by improving road intersections or providing better medical equipment in hospitals, an enlightened government should spend that money on improving roads and health services, not the gun registry. More lives would be saved through spending of a given sum of money, a result everyone would welcome. With the resources available to the federal government, reasonably reliable estimates of such costs and benefits could be made by civil servants and academic specialists. In fact, after I had my conversation with Minister Rock, I asked a Simon Fraser University colleague in the criminology department about the feasibility of such a study. He assured me that it would be possible. For the most part, the arguments used by gun owners on one side, and defenders of the registry, such as police chiefs, on the other, are built on emotional appeals and have virtually no empirical content. Gun owners deplore the costs incurred by the government in setting up the registry, the fees they have to pay, the time lost completing registration forms, and the inconvenience and cost of meeting the registry's requirements for the storage and safe keeping of guns. The police chiefs defend the registry on the grounds that it saves the lives of law enforcement officers and potential victims of crime and domestic violence, as well as reducing time in responding to emergency calls. Some Canadians argue that the registry is necessary to prevent a repeat of events like the December 1989 massacre at Montreal's École Polytechnique that resulted in 24 women being shot dead. Decision must be based on empirical evidence In the final analysis, the costs borne by the gun owners and the general tax payer can be expressed in terms of dollars with relative ease. The benefits of the registry are more difficult, but not impossible, to estimate. What's needed, for example, is a comparison of the number of police officers and private citizens killed before creation of the registry to the number since the launch of the registry, adjusted for the secular downward trend observed in recent years. The recent vote in parliament will not make the issue of the registry go away. But it would be more helpful for all Canadians if future discussions are based on solid, empirical evidence, and voting decisions based on facts, not emotion. Herbert Grubel is a professor of economics (Emeritus) at Simon Fraser University, and senior fellow with the Fraser Institute: http://www.fraserinstitute.org/ - ---- Letters To The Editor E-Mail your letter to; letters@thegazette.canwest.com On-line Letter Submissions Form; http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/letters/letters-to-the-editor.html ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #128 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)