Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, October 12 2010 Volume 14 : Number 132 In this issue: Moncton T&T - Unexplained shootings tend to leave people uneasy COLUMN: Tories looking to bark up the right tree Re: SCC case? Re: Any studies? Re: SCC case? TORONTO STAR: Rifle wrath puts Conservatives at risk by James... Column: Registry should stay CTV - Fantino to run as Tory candidate Trust and the Politician **NFR** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:36:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Moncton T&T - Unexplained shootings tend to leave people uneasy http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/search/article/1257535 Unexplained shootings tend to leave people uneasy Published Monday October 11th, 2010 Unless you're in a war zone, no one really expects to have bullets fired in their direction. Especially not while you're making a pot of coffee or baking doughnuts and bagels for the appreciative morning crowd. Three Tim Hortons employees were lucky they weren't killed last week when someone fired a shot through the front window of the coffee shop located at 1810 Mountain Road. The incident occurred around 5 a.m. and the bullet came through the glass and hit the menu board above the front counter. A store official said two employees were in the back of the shop while another was at the drive-thru, so they weren't in the line of fire. Police investigators collected evidence, brought in a dog to sniff for clues and spoke to area residents. But as of late last Thursday, no arrests had been made. A Codiac RCMP spokeswoman continued to ask the public to come forward with tips and information in the hope of identifying the shooter. It's a strange case with a lot of possibilities. Someone could have been targeting the store or someone affiliated with it, or the firearm could have been discharged as a reckless gag with deadly potential. It could have come from a vehicle, a pedestrian or even a nearby residence. One hunter I know said bullets maintain a lot of momentum after they ricochet, so it's hard to even speculate on the intended target or why the coffee shop was hit unless you're a firearms expert. The crime reminds me of a wild case in Moncton back in September 2004. One group of men had accused a second group of stealing puppies from their vehicle outside a Mountain Road strip club. Words were exchanged and the man accused of stealing the dogs drove away with two other men. The men who lost the dogs followed them into a residential neighbourhood, only to have the first car stop in the middle of the street. According to testimony from the victims, two men jumped out of the first car, hauled out handguns and started shooting at them. One of the victims had a bullet graze him right down the top of his head. Any lower and the shot would have gone directly into his forehead. Two men were charged, eventually pleaded guilty and were sentenced to nine years each for charges relating to the shooting and other crimes. While the men who had to duck a hail of bullets were the obvious victims in that case, they weren't the only ones. News that a shootout had occurred in a quiet neighbourhood in the middle of the night was absolutely shocking to local residents. "I must confess, had anyone suggested a shootout could happen on the streets of Moncton, I would not have believed it," said Court of Queen's Bench Justice George Rideout during one of the sentencing hearings. "What took place, in my opinion, is an affront to society." It was specifically an affront to the residents whose houses were struck by bullets on Savoie Drive and Noel Street. The day after the shooting, a photographer and I spoke to one resident who awoke in the middle of the night to the sound of the glass in his screen door exploding as a bullet passed through and lodged in the inside door. The man ran to make sure his wife and children were safe and was still shaken the next day, wondering if the shooter had racist motivation because the family had immigrated to Moncton. The Tim Hortons shooting may have been someone trying to send a message, an incredibly dangerous prank or a stray bullet that struck the business at random. Until the community knows why this happened, people who live and work in that area will continue to be uneasy, wondering why an otherwise normal morning started with a shot fired into a Tim Hortons. Without knowing why the bullet was fired, we nevertheless do know that the person who fired it has no business possessing a loaded firearm, whether it's a rifle or handgun, legal or illegal. You often hear of big city police forces holding a gun amnesty, where people can turn in firearms, no questions asked. Sometimes there's an incentive offered, like tickets to an NBA game or Major League Baseball game. News reports from the U.S. have shown police collecting piles of firearms from the program. It's not a bad idea and I wonder if it could work here in Moncton. Maybe Codiac RCMP and the Moncton Wildcats could get together and offer hockey tickets in exchange for firearms. I'm sure there are people who have guns they don't have any use for and just haven't gotten around to getting rid of them. If you make it easy to dispose of them, and even offer an incentive, maybe that's all the push a person needs. Even if only a couple dozen people turned over a firearm, it would be a success. Because while there are responsible firearms owners who keep their guns properly secured, clearly there some who do not. And for every gun turned over to police, that's one less gun to end up in the hands of someone who thinks it's OK to shoot it in the middle of the city. * City Views appears daily, written by various members of our staff. Craig Babstock is a Times & Transcript reporter. His column appears every Monday. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, October 12, 2010 8:37 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: COLUMN: Tories looking to bark up the right tree CALGARY HERALD - OCTOBER 12, 2010 Tories looking to bark up the right tree BY PAUL STANWAY http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/Stanway+Tories+looking+bark+right+tree/3655725/story.html To quote the legendary and chronically under-appreciated John Diefenbaker, "polls are for dogs" and if you're in the habit of following political opinion polls in this country, you're likely to be one confused puppy. The fortunes of our major political parties appear to be up, down, all over the map, with no real sense of public opinion moving in a clear direction. You do get the occasional bit of insight from the few media commentators who aren't 100 per cent focused on the uproar du jour. Such as a recent piece in the National Post from John Ivison that tried to make sense of a Decima-Harris poll showing a significant majority of Canadians -- almost six out of 10 -- upset with all governments, regardless of stripe. This groundswell of frustration (described as "anger" by 40 per cent of those polled) has led some to suggest Canada is fertile ground for a U.S.-style Tea Party movement. But as Ivison pointed out, Canada has been there and done that with the Reform eruption two decades ago. Any conservative voters who are inclined to wish for a new right-of-centre movement untainted by the practicalities of government should be careful what they wish for. Reform was influential, on a narrow front, but it shattered Canadian conservatism and led to a decade and a half of mostly futile opposition. Which brings me to the first of two trends I think you can see demonstrated in dozens of polls over the past few years -- the regionalization of Canadian politics. We just celebrated the 10th anniversary of the death of the leader who began that process, Pierre Trudeau. By alienating the West and entrenching Quebec's sense of political entitlement, Trudeau ended the meandering status quo that had seen government in Ottawa alternate between Conservative and Liberal for a century. Trudeau made it acceptable -- at least to Liberals -- to govern without support from Western Canada. Brian Mulroney got lots of support from the West, but in building our last truly national government, he embraced a coven of Quebec nationalists who eventually dumped him to form the Bloc. Hey presto (no pun intended) and we suddenly have two regional parties -- the Bloc and Reform -- making it difficult to cobble together enough support for a majority, let alone one with broad national support. None of this is news to Stephen Harper, who has worked to rebuild a Conservative party capable of reaching majority government. It's been a brave attempt, but in Toronto Star-land, his new Conservatives are still stubbornly rejected by many voters as too western and too Reform, while Quebecers just as stubbornly believe supporting the Bloc is the best way to preserve their historic entitlements. The latest Decima-Harris poll captured this perfectly: Conservatives are strongly supported in the West (from a 10-point lead over the Grits in B.C., to a staggering 40-point lead in Alberta), Ontario split down the middle (with Metro-Toronto an opposition fortress), and Quebec in love with pseudo-separatism (a 13-point Bloc lead over the second-place Liberals). If that's not regional voting, I don't know what is. After several attempts, the Harper Conservatives are essentially no farther ahead in their attempt to break this deadlock. You would think the fact we're emerging from the global recession in about the best shape of any developed nation would easily carry the Conservatives to a majority in the next election, but the polls suggest otherwise. So what could break this logjam? Well, if you dig down, the second trend that jumps out from poll after poll is a pronounced gender gap. A solid majority of Canadian men -- 13 points - -- prefer Harper and the Conservatives, while among women, it's the Liberals consistently in front -- a seven-point lead. A significant number of Canadian women (particularly younger, urban women) still harbour ill-defined doubts about the Conservatives. The scary "hidden-agenda" claim seems to resonate with these voters, equating with some vague fear that the Tories would roll back women's rights. Polling also suggests women are more likely to look favourably on a government that reaches decisions by consensus, which is no doubt why the opposition and some in the media are desperate to paint Harper as a bully who listens to no one. So how do you overcome that? This is the most pro-family government we've had in decades, but clearly that hasn't endeared it to all women. A strong female second-in-command (potential successor?) would help mightily, but the PM has had real problems in finding that person. If there were ever a time to soften Harper's public image, this would likely be it. He no longer has to prove he's tough, smart and determined - --even his detractors give him that. However, you get the impression that any communications director who suggested the PM embrace his softer, more empathetic side would not be long in the job. But for a PM in search of elusive votes to form a majority government, what's the alternative? Public funding for a Quebec City arena? Paul Stanway spent three years as Premier Ed Stelmach's communications direct or. His column runs every Tuesday ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 09:57:42 -0700 From: Christopher di Armani Subject: Re: SCC case? > On 2010-10-12 4:15 AM, Bruce Mills wrote: > I'm trying to find the SCC case where they decided that a search > wasn't unreasonable based only on a cop's "suspicion" that the > suspect was acting "nervously", because the search turned up an > evil gun. I can't find it on CANLII or on my hard drive. > > Anyone remember which one this was? > > Yours in TYRANNY! > Bruce Was that the one where the OPP had pulled the guy over because he was "driving suspiciously". By suspicious, they meant he was doing the speed limit. If memory serves, the SCC upheld the stop and resulting search. - -- Yours in Liberty, Christopher di Armani christopher@diArmani.com http://www.diArmani.com Check out the latest from Katey Montague at http://www.YouTube.com/KateysFirearmsFacts ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:12:22 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Any studies? I thought that was one of PET`s famous statements along with the raised middle finger ? ed/on - ---------- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher di Armani" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:39 AM Subject: Re: Any studies? > On 2010-10-11 8:38 PM, Lee Jasper wrote: >> Bruce wrote: >> >>> Any studies? >>> >>> Does anyone know of any (recent) studies on just how many people trust >>> what politicians have to say? How about how many people rely on what >>> "experts" have to say? >> I recall that politicians used to be ranked right up their with used car >> salespeople. > > There was a Supreme Court decision a few years ago (I can't seem to find > it at the moment) that said politicians are not bound to keep election > promises. I think it was in Quebec. > > Stand up for Canadians? Please... It was a typical SCC decision... > covering the asses of the politicians who put them there. > -- > Yours in Liberty, > > Christopher di Armani > christopher@diArmani.com > http://www.diArmani.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:15:08 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: SCC case? I beg to differ. I believe the judge through the case out because the cop had no RIGHT to stop the driver. The driver had drugs and money and guns in his car as well and none of that was admissable as evidence ed/on - -------- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher di Armani" To: ; "Bruce Mills" Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:57 PM Subject: Re: SCC case? >> On 2010-10-12 4:15 AM, Bruce Mills wrote: >> I'm trying to find the SCC case where they decided that a search >> wasn't unreasonable based only on a cop's "suspicion" that the >> suspect was acting "nervously", because the search turned up an >> evil gun. I can't find it on CANLII or on my hard drive. >> >> Anyone remember which one this was? >> >> Yours in TYRANNY! >> Bruce > > Was that the one where the OPP had pulled the guy over because he was > "driving suspiciously". By suspicious, they meant he was doing the > speed limit. If memory serves, the SCC upheld the stop and resulting > search. > -- > Yours in Liberty, > > Christopher di Armani > christopher@diArmani.com > http://www.diArmani.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, October 12, 2010 12:16 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: TORONTO STAR: Rifle wrath puts Conservatives at risk by James... TORONTO STAR - OCTOBER 12, 2010 Travers: Rifle wrath puts Conservatives at risk By James Travers, National Affairs Columnist http://www.thestar.com/article/873713--travers-rifle-wrath-puts-conservatives-at-risk OTTAWA — It’s hunting season in the bucolic Ottawa Valley and the sound of gunfire echoes around bush lots. So, too, does the raucous sounds of an old dispute with a weird new twist. Hec Clouthier, the flamboyant former MP Liberals blame for inflaming the Valley over the long-gun registry, is just home from shooting partridge. He’s also back in politics and turning roiling rifle owner anger against Conservatives. Clouthier is a character; he’s no fool. After being beaten as a Liberal in 2000, the man best known here for his swoopy fedora — and in Pembroke for losing his temper defending Jean Chrétien’s registry — is running as an independent. This is not the first time Clouthier has broken Liberal ranks. Back in the 1990s he campaigned and lost as an independent after local Liberals blocked his bid to replace Len Hopkins in a riding the party won back in the Dirty 30s. Clouthier finished a distant second but bounced back, winning for the Liberals in 1997, only to lose to neophyte Cheryl Gallant. Since then Gallant has rolled up victory after victory, all but one larger than the last, mostly by promising to junk the registry. Her repeated promises resonate in a riding with priorities a Conservative organizer once described as “God, guns and family, in that order”. But ten years have rolled past and the registry still haunts a riding where farm rifles are handed down through generations and filling the game freezer is a cherished way of life. Carole Devine worked hard to exploit the broken promise in the 2008 election campaign and still lost by a three-to-one margin. Gallant, silenced by party headquarters after one too many homophobic rants, kept a low profile letting residual Liberal animosity do its work, securing her one of the largest Conservative victories. Clouthier is determined not to let her win that way again. He’s going door-to-door apologizing for towing the Liberal gun registry line, pointing out that Conservatives have yet to risk power to keeping their registry promise and arguing that minority Parliaments give independents disproportionate influence. Odds are usually loaded against candidates flying their own colours. But these are anything but normal times. “People are fed up with the whole political system,” Clouthier says, making the same point Rob Ford is driving home in the current Toronto mayoralty race. Officially, Valley Liberals aren’t happy with Clouthier. They say he’s biting the party hand that fed him by splitting the anti-Gallant vote. Clouthier scoffs at criticism. Taking a mischievous poke at the less than 10,000 votes Liberals won in the last election, he quite reasonably argues that Conservative votes are the key to victory. Unofficially, some Liberals not only accept his point, they give Clouthier a surprisingly good chance of returning to the capital. If they are right in Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke, Harper and Conservatives may have a problem in other ridings where the gun registry is a ballot question. Instead of riding a wave of resentment against the registry, the ruling party could find itself facing the double whammy of voters who blame it for failing to scrap the registry as well as those who believe Conservatives are risking public safety for political advantage. It’s far too early to know if that’s a real or pressing danger. But it’s too late for the ruling party to roll back its bold predictions of gains of up to 20 seats by targeting MPs who flip-flopped to save the registry. If Clouthier return to politics signals anything it’s that even Conservatives aren’t safe from gun registry wrath. James Travers’ column appears Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, October 12, 2010 12:20 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Column: Registry should stay REGINA LEADER POST - OCTOBER 12, 2010 Registry should stay By Sam Morrison, Special to The Leader-Post http://www.leaderpost.com/Registry+should+stay/3655900/story.html In recent years, the debate regarding the long-gun registry law have been contentious, to say the least. It has been a hot-button issue from the start and will likely remain that way. The long-gun registry is an act that will not likely be pulled from statute. Nor should it be. The reasoning behind the registry was mainly to have a database of the various guns distributed through the country in order to help in criminal investigations. A few events across Canada involving registered guns resulted in deaths of innocent people. In response to this, Bill C-68 was introduced in 1993, which implemented the mandatory registry in 2003. Although 74 per cent of peace officers state the registry has been useful in investigation, 72 per cent of Canadians believe it has done nothing to help. As police make up about a fifth of one percent of the population, it is likely Canada has been seduced by an argumentum ad populum as, there seems to be a discrepancy in public knowledge. The long-held opposition to the registry has mainly been a outcry from rural communities, gun enthusiasts and firearms entities. Their arguments have ranged from the cost of the program to a feeling of oppression to questions of privacy. The long-gun registry was expected to cost $2 million, with $119 million for its operations (with $117 million as revenues). But, as of 2002, expenses were over $1 billion and revenues only about $140 million. As the feelings of personal attack or disrespect are tied-up in the back of the wagon of an ad hominem fallacy, this could not be logically argued as a reason to discontinue the registry. In regards to privacy, it is unlikely someone with knowledge of database hacking is hunting for a stockpile of guns, nor is a person with serious intent to inflict pain on people in the stable state of mind that one must be in for such a technical task. The cause of the high esteem for the registry by some is largely due to the inductive, or at least naive, safety that the registry tries to ensure. Many would believe that by having dangerous materials listed (in case of the need to track said item) would reduce the occasion of incident. There are things we do register in our society largely because of concerns about safety and damages, financial and physical. We demand the registration of cars, pets, chemicals, medical professionals, teachers, even marriages. If those thing can cause enough damage to need registration, there is no doubt in a logical and just society that anything made with the intention of death surely be committed to a registration-style program. It is likely reasonable to assume that the debate won't end as to whether the registry is reasonable or necessary, but isn't that the joy of dialectical politics? As for the state of the registry, it appear to be staying for the time being despite opposition from the Conservative party. There is no doubt it has been an aid and should continue to yield results in the value of successful criminal prosecutions. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, October 12, 2010 2:38 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: CTV - Fantino to run as Tory candidate CTV NEWS - Updated: Tue Oct. 12 2010 11:02:57 AM Former Ont. top cop Fantino to run as Tory candidate By CTV.ca News Staff http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20101012/fantino-conservative-101012/20101012/?hub=TorontoNewHome The former top cop for both Toronto and Ontario announced Tuesday he will once again be donning blue duds -- but this time as a candidate for the federal Conservative party. Julian Fantino, former commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police, and former chief of the Toronto Police, made the announcement Tuesday morning in Woodbridge, Ont. Fantino, admitting the announcement was "not the best-kept secret," said he will run as a Tory in an upcoming byelection in the riding of Vaughan, north of Toronto. "Even today after having stood and engaged and undertaken many challenges I feel very humbled to be here at this stage in my life to pursue this nomination," Fantino said. The riding had been held by Liberal MP Maurizio Bevilacqua, who vacated the post to run for mayor of Vaughan. The Conservatives appear to be throwing heavy firepower at the riding in an attempt to win the seat, after the well-known, longtime Liberal stepped aside. Bevilacqua, who ran unsuccessfully for the leadership of the Liberal party in 2006, served the riding for 22 years. Fantino wasted no time wading into a controversial issue that is likey to be front and centre in the next federal election. He said he believes the controversial long gun registry, which the Conservatives are seeking to abolish, "has not deterred gun crime in this country, from my experience." Many police chiefs have defended the gun registry as an important tool that police use every day. But Fantino said the more useful aspects of gun crime legislation are background checks, licensing requirements, safe storage legislation and rules around purchasing ammunition. Though Fantino's website itself wouldn't open on Tuesday morning, the URL www.julianfantino.ca led to a Conservative Party of Canada title bar, hinting at the coming announcement. The byelection in Vaughan, which has not yet been officially announced, is widely expected to be held in December. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:10:36 -0400 From: Bill Subject: Trust and the Politician **NFR** Politicians took last place for trustworthiness among 22 professionals in a 2006 poll taken by Leger Marketing Only 14 percent of those surveyed said they trusted politicians, five percent below the figure for car salespeople. (Firefighters were at the top with 96 percent, followed by nurses at 95 percent, farmers at 92 percent, teachers at 88 percent, police officers at 81 percent, judges at 78 percent, bankers at 72 percent, and church representatives at 64 percent.) And a LOT more here: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/A+tarnished+image.%28DEMOCRATIC+DEFICIT--TRUST%29%28distrust+of+politicians%29-a0145337611 Bill ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #132 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)