Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, October 13 2010 Volume 14 : Number 133 In this issue: Fantino's most useful pieces of gun-control legislation letter to Leader Post (just sent) ... Re: "Canada ponders arming Afghan villages" Conspiracy-theory thinking or Revisionist history Re: No room for common sense and numeracy in the Media Re: Private Members Bill - Robert Head's letter Re: Any studies? [Politicians and Gov't must keep promises] [none] LETTER: It should be possible to simplify background checks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, October 12, 2010 4:01 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Fantino's most useful pieces of gun-control legislation NATIONAL POST - OCTOBER 12, 2010 Julian Fantino running for federal Tories in Vaughan By Johnna Ruocco October 12, 2010 - 9:39 am http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/10/12/julian-fantino-expected-to-announce-run-for-federal-tories/ Julian Fantino will run as a Conservative candidate in an upcoming federal byelecton in Vaughan, he revealed at a press conference this morning. "This formal announcement is probably not the best-kept secret," Mr. Fantino acknowledged. "I feel truly humbled to be here at this stage of my life to pursue this nomination." Mr. Fantino lives in Woodbridge, Ont., which falls within Vaughan riding that was recently vacated by Maurizio Bevilacqua, a former Liberal MP who left the riding after a 22-year run. He is now running for mayor of Vaughan. At his announcement this morning, Mr. Fantino quoted John F. Kennedy and spoke about the contributions of immigrants to Canada, particularly those who share his Italian heritage. "This is another journey. It's a journey in pursuit of what I consider the Canadian dream," Mr. Fantino said. He praised Prime Minister Stephen Harper's commitment to security and justice. "I will have much more to say in this regard, however, I am also mindful and respectful of due process," he said. After the announcement, Mr. Fantino was asked whether he will be allowed to speak freely. "The Prime Minister deals with issues as he sees them," Mr. Fantino replied. "I know what leadership is all about and I'm very respectful of that, and I intend to be a team player." The former police chief said he is confident that he can swing Vaughan to the Tories. "We don't overturn regimes. We democratically elect new leadership," Mr. Fantino said. Mr. Fantino's career has been stained by controversial issues, including the Caledonia native stand-off and accusations of homophobia stemming from a major investigation in London during the 1990s, to which he strongly denies. He defended his career: I don't know how, in a democratic society, a police chief. could ever benchmark the work they do so that everyone's happy. In order to be honourable, ethical, professional and trustworthy, you have to be controversial to some people who don't see things the same way," Mr. Fantino went on. The gun registry is sure to be a key issue come time for a federal election, and in that regard Mr. Fantino agrees with the minority government, while the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police argue that it is an important and useful everyday tool. "I'm very disappointed that the whole issue of gun crime in this country came down to the gun registry, which I believe has been briefly distorted," said Mr. Fantino. He said the most useful pieces of gun-control legislation are background checks, licensing requirements, safe storage legislation and rules for purchasing ammunition. Mr. Fantino said it has been an obscene waste of taxpayers money to end up with this one piece of gun-control legislation which, "has not deterred gun crime in this country, from my experience." It had been rumoured that Mr. Fantino would take some time to unwind after 42 years of work in law enforcement, but he believes he can make a valid contribution in public office rather than in retirement. "One way or the other, I was not going to go fishing all the time," he joked. Although his wife, Liviana, said she supported and was happy about her husband's decision, she did mention she had other plans. "It's no secret I was hoping he'd take me travelling for awhile," she joked. A major campaign kickoff is planned for Friday at the Riviera Parque Hall at Hwy. 7 and Creditstone Rd. Mr. Fantino started his career in law and order as a mall security guard. He went on to become a police officer and worked his way up to head both York Regional Police (1998) and Toronto Police (2000). He later became the province's emergency management commissioner and head of the Ontario Provincial Police. There was previous speculation that Mr. Fantino would be launching a mayoral bid, but he quickly quelled those rumours. The Vaughan by-election is expected to be held in early December. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 20:17:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: letter to Leader Post (just sent) ... Registry should stay ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, Sam Morrison feels "There is no doubt [the registry] has been an aid and should continue to yield results in the value of successful criminal prosecutions". This is undoubtedly true, but unfortunately the so-called "criminals" the registry will prosecute are guilty only of paper infractions which were not even a crime before the registry made it so in 1995 (sec 91, 92 CCC). These newly minted criminals don't even have to do anything. Just wait until a license expires, and then lose your property, face financial ruin mounting a legal defense and go to jail for ten years. In the case of one Ontario gun-smith, his family home was forfeit as "proceeds of crime". To support the firearms registry is to be ignorant, either willfully or otherwise of the firearms law in Canada, and to be completely bereft of any common sense. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 19:59:19 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: "Canada ponders arming Afghan villages" What? Have local communities police themselves and be able to deny foreign Al Quaida/Taliban fanatics, shelter and support, or a moments rest? A idea that worked in Iraq. Since no one is going to fund a long term NATO force for Afghanistan, that is their only winning option. Afghanistan won't have a functioning central government for the next few decades if ever. Of course why would the government follow a crime reduction strategy in Afghanistan that they reject for Canadian citizens in Canada? (Rhetorical question :) On 12-Oct-10, at 10:49 AM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/search/article/1255514 > > Canada ponders arming Afghan villages > Published Saturday October 9th, 2010 > > Amid growing grassroots resistance to Taliban, Canada mulls training locals > > THE CANADIAN PRESS > > KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - The Canadian military is considering taking > part > in a controversial program to help Afghan villagers defend themselves > against the Taliban amid reports that a growing number of locals are > standing up to insurgents in the incendiary Panjwaii district - > often with violent results. > > In recent weeks, Canadian soldiers operating in Panjwaii, the district > southwest of Kandahar city where the bulk of Canada's fighting > force is based, have recorded several incidents where locals have > independently confronted members of the Taliban. > > It is viewed as a positive sign - not just for Canadian troops, but > for NATO as a whole, which has been seeking to organize grassroots > resistance to the Taliban in the more remote regions of the country. > > Earlier this year, NATO officials secured a deal with the Afghan > government to establish a program to train local defence forces. The > program is already underway in parts of northern Kandahar, helping to > stabilize areas where the coalition has deployed fewer troops. >snipped for length< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:35:28 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Conspiracy-theory thinking or Revisionist history > 'Conspiracy-theory thinking' > > By Tom Lukiwski, > The Leader-Post > October 8, 2010 > > We are not alone in our opposition to the registry. In total, 20 Liberal > and NDP MPs supported scrapping the firearms registry on the private > member's bill's second reading. Not exactly, Mr. Lukiwski. The facts are . . . . the opposition MPs voted 'for' C-391 at 1st and 2nd reading so it would go to committee for discussion, debate and to provide an opportunity for non politicians to speak to it. There was no assurance they would support it at 3rd reading, especially considering that it was a private members bill - in name only. Proof of the gov't's control of private member's bills was the outcome of C-301. Additionally, despite all the blathering about 'voting for one's constituents' from the CPC, I've not heard of a single poll conducted by any CPC MP to determine what the constituents in gov't riding's wanted. (Understand, it's not unusual to tabulate incoming phone calls to an MPs office which does not constitute an unbiased poll). When it's an issue that splits along long established party policy and platforms - you can expect voting to reflect party policy. If it's any comfort, MP Lukiwska's article would not have been his view, but would have been the 'talking points' from the PMO. No CPC MP is allowed to freely express his/her thoughts in a public forum. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:08:40 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: No room for common sense and numeracy in the Media Mike asked re statistics: > Is there no room for common sense, numeracy, investigative reporting and > academic integrity in the media in Canada? > > The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police claim the police use > the Firearms Registry 11000 times a day. Is this number credible? > 11,000 times a day is 4.015 million times each year, more than once for > every nine men women and children in Canada. (Pop about 33.7 million.) > Each year, almost 12% percent of the people in Canada are suspected > firearm misuse perpetrators? Baloney! Here's the stat's from Chief Superintendent Marty Cheliak in his SECU committee presentation: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=4497859&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=40&Ses=3#Int-3140301 > I'm sorry, I only have the 2008 statistics in front of me, but I > would be pleased to provide the 2009 statistics to you in writing. > > The 2008 statistics come from the commissioner's annual firearms > report, tabled earlier this year. Of those 3.4 million queries per > year, 2.3 million were specifically related to persons queries; > 941,000 were related to address queries, which cannot be done on CPIC > but are direct CFRO queries; 74,000 were done on firearms serial > numbers; and on and on, down the list. So the 2.35 million could be a > very objective number, or unobjective number, subject to why the > query was made. At times there is an auto-link query, when a person's > query is done, with CPIC, to query the individual to determine if > they have a licence and firearms registered to them. All of the > address queries—almost one million a year in 2008—were specific to > addresses, that is, to ascertain if there were firearms in a > residence. > > When we go back to the 2.3 million queries per year, we have to > remember that there were 66 million CPIC queries on persons in 2008 > as well. So when we say every CPIC query generates a CFRO query, > that's not the case. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:23:11 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Private Members Bill - Robert Head's letter Bruce posted: > [A letter posted to CGN, which has supposedly been sent to major > news outlets across the country. We'll see if it gets printed/aired] Head writes: > September 15, 2010 > > Re: Private Members Bill 'Hoeppner' Long Gun Registry > > Many Canadians will find themselves in a quandary over the recent > media reports and political posturing relating to the Hoeppner Bill > which calls for abolition of the long gun registry and ONLY the long > gun registry. > (It is interesting to note that two of Canada's leading innovative > Chiefs, Rick Hanson of Calgary and Julian Fantino of Ontario, and > many street level police personnel have made it quite clear that the > registry is not supported). > Sincerely, > > Robert H.D. Head Assistant Commissioner - RCMP(rtd.) I really wish Head would do his homework and stop confusing people with the facts: Chief Rick Hanson (Chief of Police, Calgary Police Service) at the SECU stated: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=4497859&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=40&Ses=3#Int-3140301 > We still want to encourage registration, but this can be done through > new regulatory and non-criminal penalties--for example, penalty, > ticket, and fine--administered through individual provinces. To > further encourage people to register, the process should also be > streamlined and simplified. > But the issue around registration can be more than adequately > addressed through provincial registries that recognize regional > differences and that decriminalize something that ought not to be. > We're not against a registry that is properly administered and that > decriminalizes the possession of sporting weapons. And while Fantino says he does not support the long gun registry now, it is my recollection that he did back in '95 when he was a high placed honcho with the CACP. I also have no recollection of any disapproval of the long gun registry during the period when he was Chief in London. If he places no value on the long gun registry, how can he support the handgun registry? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:56:13 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Any studies? [Politicians and Gov't must keep promises] Christopher posted: > There was a Supreme Court decision a few years ago (I can't seem to > find it at the moment) that said politicians are not bound to keep > election promises. I think it was in Quebec. > > Stand up for Canadians? Please... It was a typical SCC decision... > covering the asses of the politicians who put them there. It's a decision I located a long time ago and often quote: The decision actually was that in this instance, politicians and gov't's are liable for their promises. > D. What Are the Minister's Subsequent Obligations? 115 > As I have said above, the Minister must issue the 1991-93 modified > permit, recognizing the Center's vocation as a provider of both > long-term and short-term care. > Mount Sinai Hospital Center v. Quebec (Minister of Health and Social > Services) > > 2001 SCC 41. File No.: 27022. http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2001/2001scc41/2001scc41.html > Minister of Health and Social Services Appellant > > v. > > Mount Sinai Hospital Center Respondent > > December 12; 2001: June 29. Present: McLachlin C.J. and > L'Heureux-Dubé, Gonthier, Iacobucci, Major, Bastarache and Binnie JJ. > ON APPEAL FROM THE COURT OF APPEAL FOR QUEBEC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 13, 2010 8:38 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: [none] WORLD NET DAILY - OCTOBER 12, 2010 Obama agency busts plan to sell rifles to Americans Feds call popular gun a 'threat,' proposed shipments canceled By Bob Unruh, WorldNetDaily http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=214589 The Obama-run Washington bureaucracy has classified a common and reliable rifle, the M1 Garand, as a "threat to public safety in the U.S.," and the State Department has canceled plans by the Republic of Korea to return tens of thousands of surplus rifles to the U.S. for sale in the consumer market. The stunning classification of an ordinary gun that was used in the U.S. military for two decades and issued to thousands of soldiers and Marines during World War II and Korea as a threat came in a document by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. It is being publicized by Examiner gun rights writer David Codrea, who said the federal agency appeared alarmed that there would be "no more controls [over imported Garands] than any other firearm." Everything you'll ever need to know about gun is here, in the "FIREARMS MULTIMEDIA GUIDE" http://superstore.wnd.com/store/item.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=29&SUBDEPARTMENT_ID=1 61&ITEM_ID=3631 "If I read this right, what they're saying is, every gun poses a threat to public safety in the U.S.," he wrote. "This is the same rationale used in model-specific 'assault weapons' bans - the type of gun is somehow deemed relevant, even though untold numbers of such firearms are already peaceably owned in this country, and even though no supporting evidence for this conclusion exists beyond agenda-promoting speculation." A source who sought confidentiality because of his current status in the industry told WND that the document posted by Codrea is at least an accurate draft, if not the final version, of the document assembled by the ATF. According to the document itself, it came about because of this scenario: The State Department in May 2009 approved a "request by the Government of the Republic of Korea (ROK) to transfer 87,310 M1 Garand rifles and 770,160 M1 carbine rifles to U.S. private entities for subsequent commercial resale in the United States." But the ATF contacted the State Department and argued the stock of rifles "poses a threat to public safety in the U.S." As a result, the State Department reversed its decision. The transfer of such weapons would raise the number of guns available and, therefore, lower the price, making them more generally available, the agency found. Tracking ability sought "They may be legitimately sold, trafficked or otherwise transferred. The only controls are the ones in the [Gun Control Act of 1968] and, while these controls require federal firearms licensees to keep certain records and place some restrictions on their firearms sales, such as requiring a background check and limiting interstate shipments to licensees, very few records are required to be provided to ATF and ATF is specifically prohibited from maintaining any form of a firearm registry," the argument said. The ATF also expressed concern that anyone who can purchase seven separate parts for the gun and install them correctly - or those individuals who can machine their own steel parts for guns - probably could convert the carbine into a machine gun. The Garand, once praised by Gen. George S. Patton, arrived as a service rifle in the military in 1936 and was issued routinely until 1957, when it was replaced. The gun expert who acted as a source for WND said the implications of the case are significant for several reasons. One is that a "5-year-old" could figure out that if the government classifies one type of rifle as a "threat," there could be similar designations for other kinds of firearms. Further, he said a team of ATF managers actually took the initiative in writing the agency's condemnation of the Garand. He noted the agency from 2003-2009 traced an estimated 1.8 million guns for various reasons. But of those, only some 1,900 were Garands. "It's a very select core of old-school ATF narcissists who have just become too powerful and too arrogant," the source reported. 'No comment' Officials with the ATF declined to comment to WND, but a spokesman for the U.S. Department of State explained that the permission had been granted for the rifles to be shipped to the U.S., then it was rescinded. The decision, explained Karl Duckworth, was prompted because of "concerns that such large numbers" of weapons would be brought into the U.S. and they could be "exploited for illicit purposes." However, he said he could not elaborate on just exactly who expressed the concerns. Codrea told WND the classification was a "beachhead" for gun control. The WND source said it was just a symptom of the larger problems at the BATFE, citing a CleanupATF website that describes the work of "returning integrity, accountability and decency to the management of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive." The site explains that there have been some 400 employee complaints in the agency in just the last two years. According to Codrea, "This is the grave threat to the republic? This is nothing less than legislation by unaccountable bureaucrats with an agenda that has nothing to do with legitimate delegated authority." Former congressman warned of gun control Former Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo, now running for governor in his state, wrote some months ago about guns becoming endangered under Obama. "A U.N. resolution adopted in October calls upon member nations to negotiate the matter and finish writing a [gun control] treaty by 2012. The United States voted for the resolution, which was adopted almost unanimously," he said in a commentary. "President Bush, for all his mistakes and miscalculations, never allowed his U.N. representatives to participate in such negotiations. But Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton reversed course and agreed to join the negotiations." He said it is such treaties that offer serious threats to the U.S. "What conventional arms treaties do is constrain the actions of law-abiding nations and law-abiding citizens while allowing outlaw nations and leftist guerrilla groups to build their arsenals," he said. "If you think such international treaties apply only to sales and exchanges among nations and not to individuals, you have not been paying attention to the Obama administration's agenda and to what activist judges have been doing in American courts." States already rebelling States already have begun rebelling against federal rules for guns, with eight formally adopting laws that exempt guns made, sold and kept within the states from federal regulations. A court case over that law now is headed to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. The description of guns as a "threat" recalls the themes in a U.S. Department of Homeland Security report in 2009 that characterized "right-wing extremists" as opponents of abortion and illegal immigration and supporters of gun rights and third-party political candidates. WND reported on a Department of Homeland Security report that warned against the possibility of violence by unnamed "right-wing extremists" concerned about illegal immigration, increasing federal power, restrictions on firearms, abortion and the loss of U.S. sovereignty and singled out returning war veterans as particular threats. The report, "Right-wing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment," dated April 7, stated "threats from white supremacist and violent anti-government groups during 2009 have been largely rhetorical and have not indicated plans to carry out violent acts." However, the document, first reported by talk-radio host and WND columnist Roger Hedgecock, went on to suggest worsening economic woes, potential new legislative restrictions on firearms and "the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks." The report from DHS' Office of Intelligence and Analysis defined right-wing extremism in the U.S. as "divided into those groups, movements and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups) and those that are mainly anti-government, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration." Most notable was the report's focus on the impact of returning war veterans. "Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to right-wing extremists," it said. "DHS/I&A is concerned that right-wing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize veterans in order to boost their violent capacities." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 13, 2010 8:31 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: LETTER: It should be possible to simplify background checks THE VANCOUVER SUN - OCTOBER 13, 2010 LETTER: It should be possible to simplify background checks http://www.vancouversun.com/health/should+possible+simplify+background+checks/3662913/story.html Re: Fingerprint rules causing delays for workers and volunteers, Oct. 9 If Canadian Blood Services can ask me, every time I donate blood, to state any previous names I may have used, why can't a similar question be added to the criminal record check form? It already has stiff penalties for untruthful answers. If this can't be made to work, why can't police forces simply cross-reference the applicants' names to any previous names by which they may have been known? Surely the gun registry fiasco should alert our MPs and bureaucrats to try to keep things simple: Track the criminals by any name they've ever had and let the rest of us apply for jobs, paid or volunteer, in a simple, inexpensive and expedient fashion. Julie Halfnights, Richmond ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #133 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)