Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, October 13 2010 Volume 14 : Number 134 In this issue: A Step back in time! In South Dakota: Another Sarah Palin? Regarding: No room for common sense and numeracy in the Media Outdoors Network: a "gun call" by a disgruntled neighbour [1970] The October Crisis: Civil Liberties Suspended Fantino quote from January 3, 2003 Re: Outdoors Network: a "gun call" by a disgruntled neighbour Re: USA-M1 Garand classified as a "threat to public safety in... Re: Fantino quote from January 3, 2003 Re: USA-M1 Garand classified as a "threat to public safety in... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:04:17 -0400 From: Bill Subject: A Step back in time! Years ago, I had a website called "The Canadian Liberal GunFarce". I kept it up until I could no longer afford the time it took away from my business. It received an average of 6,000 hits a month in the years it was up. Then, Geocities shut down. The web site vanished along with literally thousands of others. Just doing a google search, I discovered that many of the web sites that were previously on Geocities, had been preserved, along with several pages of the C.L.G.F.. on a site called Reocities.com As far as I can tell, The site is complete from it's inception at Mar. 2001 until September 2003 (I actually stopped at the end of July 2006) including the front page that had a LOT of good links, and many are still valid. Heres the link to the front page, http://www.reocities.com/Liberalgunfarce/frontpage.html Enjoy!! It probably has many valid links to documents that have been either forgotten, or lost in time... Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:18:27 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: In South Dakota: Another Sarah Palin? http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/elections-2010-south-dakota-sarah-palin/story?id=11860378&page=1 In South Dakota: Another Sarah Palin? A New Republican Star Takes on a Tough Democratic Incumbent She's an avid hunter known to hunt elk with a bow Government Spending, Fast Driving Become Issues If money is any indication, the hottest Republican House candidate in the country is Kristi Noem. The 38-year-old rancher has raised more campaign cash than any Republican house challenger in the country. Noem has raised $1.1 million over the past three months, about twice as much as her opponent, Rep. Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin (D-SD). And that money will go a long way: South Dakota's media market is one of the least expensive in the country. Noem may need the cash. Herseth-Sandlin is a moderate Democrat with a proven ability to win, and win big, in South Dakota. She decimated her Republican opponent in 2008 with nearly 70 percent of the vote, even as the state voted overwhelming against Barack Obama. Herseth-Sandlin is an avid hunter and one of the top conservative Democrats in the House. She's also from a highly regarded South Dakota political family; her grandfather was a governor, her grandmother a South Dakota Secretary of State and her father a leader in the state legislature. But Herseth-Sandlin has never faced a challenger like Kristi Noem. She's a rancher, a mother of three, and a staunch conservative who is running on a platform of slashing federal spending and repealing the new federal health care law. She's also an avid hunter known to hunt elk with a bow and arrow. Her political views and physical appearance have led some to label her "South Dakota's Sarah Palin." At her ranch in Castlewood, S.D., Noem told ABC News she wanted no part of that label and balked at the idea of the former Alaskan Governor and Republican Vice-Presidential nominee hitting the campaign trail for her. "We're going forward making sure we're focused on the people here at home," Noem told ABC News. "I want them to know who I am and what I believe we should be doing and should be accomplishing rather than focusing on somebody else from out of state." Shown on horseback in her ads, Noem's down-home image is accompanied by an anti-government spending message. "I'm a firm believer that South Dakotans know better what to do with their money than the government does," she said. The Republicans hold a sizable and unusual lead, evident in South Dakota in the disparate fundraising numbers between the two campaigns. According to figures released by each campaign Monday, Noem has raised more than $1.1 million in the 3rd quarter, nearly twice the amount Herseth-Sandlin collected. Noem has $777,000 cash on hand, compared to Herseth-Sandlin's $500,000. As of right now, no other Republican house challenger raised more this quarter. Herseth-Sandlin has been quite critical of parts of the Democratic agenda and the President, especially on the health care bill, which she voted against (although she stops short of calling for its repeal). When asked by ABC News what grade she would give President Obama, she gave him a "C." "I think on some issues, especially navigating some tough economic waters he inherited, he is doing better than people are giving him credit for," she explained. "But on some of the other issues, I don't think he did a good job. I think the leadership could be stronger." Herseth-Sandlin is in fact making a campaign platform out of being willing to stand-up to the leadership in Washington, calling herself an independent, moderate voice for South Dakota. "I've worked very hard the last six years to do what's right for South Dakota. I opposed the bailouts of Wall Street and the auto industry," Herseth-Sandlin told ABC News. Noem said Herseth-Sandlin's voting record doesn't distance her from the Democratic leadership at all, particularly, "when you really start looking and pointing out her voting record and the fact that she is voting with Nancy Pelosi 9 out of 10 times, "Noem said. Noem said a vote for Herseth-Sandlin is a vote for Pelosi for Speaker of the House. Herseth-Sandlin fired back that John Boehner "is no picnic for South Dakota either." Herseth-Sandlin said she does not regret standing by Speaker Pelosi in voting for the economic stimulus. "Now look, it was hard vote," Herseth-Sandlin told ABC News. "No one wanted to go into a new Congress with a new President and have to pass an emergency measure to stabilize an economy that was out of control and hemorrhaging hundreds of thousands of jobs." Herseth-Sandlin may have a hard time explaining that kind of spending to a state with only 4.4% unemployment. The only state with a lower rate of unemployment is neighboring North Dakota, holding steady at 3.6%. Recently, controversy in the race has centered not on the economy, but Noem's driving record, which became an issue when KELO-TV reported that she has had 20 speeding tickets and other traffic violations in the past two decades, and two warrants were issued for her arrest for failures to appear in court. Noem's most recent speeding ticket was in January when she was clocked going 94 mph on Interstate 90. While Noem says she is "not proud" of her driving record, Herseth-Sandlin has drilled down on the issue, calling it a "question of judgment." "I think that it indicates that she doesn't deem it necessary to abide by the limits that everyone else tries to abide by," Herseth-Sandlin told ABC News. "If you can't responsibly take care of your own business, I think it calls into question the level of responsibility you take in other matters." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:36:24 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Regarding: No room for common sense and numeracy in the Media Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:08:40 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: No room for common sense and numeracy in the Media Mike asked re statistics: Here's the stat's from Chief Superintendent Marty Cheliak in his SECU committee presentation: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=4497859&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=40&Ses=3#Int-3140301 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone have access to the comments provided by Auditor General Sheila Fraser and then RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli referring to the statistics quoted by the police regarding their frequency of using the registries? Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 13, 2010 12:29 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Outdoors Network: a "gun call" by a disgruntled neighbour Thanks for this Bob. Good for all of us to keep in mind. Dennis - ----------------------- From: Bob Bailey [mailto:robailey@ripnet.com] Sent: October-13-10 9:58 AM To: Outdoors Network Cc: Outdoors Network Information Subject: Fwd: Police - hunting event of interest Dear Colleagues and Friends, FYI...... Begin forwarded message: From: john Kerr Date: October 8, 2010 12:15:29 PM EDT (CA) To: Bob Bailey Subject: Re: Police entry Forgot. Circulate and discuss if you want. By the way, I was involved in a “gun call” by a disgruntled neighbour while hunting. Crabby neighbour two properties over made the mistake of trespassing himself over one property and through my friend’s on a riding lawnmower right into our decoy spread to complain about us hunting. We told him to go ahead and call the police. Don’t threaten us. He had ruined our hunt and we had enough geese anyway, so we packed up and waited back at our trucks in the driveway. Of course, cops came roaring to my friend’s farm with sirens on to investigate “trespassing hunters.”  Police calmed down when my landowner friend came out of the house and pointed out we were not trespassing. During the back-and-forth investigation, crabby changed his tune on that and said pellets had hit his house. Not. Way off and in the woods. We avoid aiming that direction, just the same. Cops even got a ladder and checked eavestrough for shot on tin roof he claimed was hit. Nothing, of course. We informed officers that if the neighbour persisted, we wanted them to lay charges on him for interfering with legal hunting activities, since our friend did not want to lay trespassing charges.. They hadn’t heard that one before. Took a lot of calling to headquarters for them to find out we had that right. Anyway, they said everything seemed fine with us and we could leave while they finished investigating the neighbour. We said no way! Afterwards, one cop asked to see where we had been hunting. Sure. Took him out in the field. He started to look for shotshell wads and feathers! They were, of course, all in a safe line of fire, as we had told him, all around where the dekes had been. None toward crabbie’s house. Smart cop! Anyway, he told us about some great hunting spots. Still, It points out how vulnerable we are to liars who simply don’t like hunters. Good news was that crabbie moved out in a hurry. John Dr. Robert O. Bailey Vice President Policy for Canada Delta Waterfowl Foundation 125 Otter Lake Road RR#1 Lombardy, Ontario K0G 1L0 (613) 283- 6866  FAX: 283- 7519 robailey@ripnet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:15:42 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: [1970] The October Crisis: Civil Liberties Suspended http://archives.cbc.ca/war_conflict/civil_unrest/topics/101-618/ The October Crisis: Civil Liberties Suspended In October 1970, tanks roamed city streets and soldiers in full battle gear raided homes in their hunt for "terrorists." They were looking for the Front de Libération du Québec; French Canadian nationalists who abducted a British diplomat and a Quebec minister. Some felt like they were living in a police state. How far would Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau go? "Just watch me," he said. Three days later he invoked the War Measures Act and a nation waited with civil liberties suspended. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 13, 2010 1:18 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Fantino quote from January 3, 2003 Lee: Here's a good Fantino quote from January 3, 2003. I'm pretty sure he was talking about the handgun registry at this time because the long gun registry was still in its infancy. Thanks, Dennis TORONTO POLICE CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO: "We have an ongoing gun crisis including firearms-related homicides lately in Toronto, and a law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them," said Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino. "None of the guns we know to have been used were registered, although we believe that more than half of them were smuggled into Canada from the United States. The firearms registry is long on philosophy and short on practical results considering the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives." Source: Quote from a News Release by Ontario Minister of Public Safety and security, Bob Runciman, ¯ Eves government urges Ottawa to suspend gun registry - January 3, 2003. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sent: October-13-10 9:36 AM To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #133 - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:23:11 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Re: Private Members Bill - Robert Head's letter Bruce posted: > [A letter posted to CGN, which has supposedly been sent to major news > outlets across the country. We'll see if it gets printed/aired] Head writes: > September 15, 2010 > > Re: Private Members Bill 'Hoeppner' Long Gun Registry > > Many Canadians will find themselves in a quandary over the recent > media reports and political posturing relating to the Hoeppner Bill > which calls for abolition of the long gun registry and ONLY the long > gun registry. > (It is interesting to note that two of Canada's leading innovative > Chiefs, Rick Hanson of Calgary and Julian Fantino of Ontario, and many > street level police personnel have made it quite clear that the > registry is not supported). > Sincerely, > > Robert H.D. Head Assistant Commissioner - RCMP(rtd.) I really wish Head would do his homework and stop confusing people with the facts: Chief Rick Hanson (Chief of Police, Calgary Police Service) at the SECU stated: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=4497859&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=40&Ses=3#Int-3140301 > We still want to encourage registration, but this can be done through > new regulatory and non-criminal penalties--for example, penalty, > ticket, and fine--administered through individual provinces. To > further encourage people to register, the process should also be > streamlined and simplified. > But the issue around registration can be more than adequately > addressed through provincial registries that recognize regional > differences and that decriminalize something that ought not to be. > We're not against a registry that is properly administered and that > decriminalizes the possession of sporting weapons. And while Fantino says he does not support the long gun registry now, it is my recollection that he did back in '95 when he was a high placed honcho with the CACP. I also have no recollection of any disapproval of the long gun registry during the period when he was Chief in London. If he places no value on the long gun registry, how can he support the handgun registry? - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:14:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: Outdoors Network: a "gun call" by a disgruntled neighbour I would get him charged (I did it 4 years ago, when a person decided to spoil our duck hunt) and make sure it goes into newspaper (should have thought about it)... public should be aware that being an a**hole could be costly. Vladyslav - --- On Wed, 10/13/10, Dennis & Hazel Young wrote: From: Dennis & Hazel Young Subject: Outdoors Network: a "gun call" by a disgruntled neighbour To: "Bob Bailey" Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 2:07 PM Thanks for this Bob. Good for all of us to keep in mind. Dennis - ----------------------- From: Bob Bailey [mailto:robailey@ripnet.com] Sent: October-13-10 9:58 AM To: Outdoors Network Cc: Outdoors Network Information Subject: Fwd: Police - hunting event of interest Dear Colleagues and Friends, FYI...... Begin forwarded message: From: john Kerr Date: October 8, 2010 12:15:29 PM EDT (CA) To: Bob Bailey Subject: Re: Police entry Forgot. Circulate and discuss if you want. By the way, I was involved in a gun call by a disgruntled neighbour while hunting. Crabby neighbour two properties over made the mistake of trespassing himself over one property and through my friend's on a riding lawnmower right into our decoy spread to complain about us hunting. We told him to go ahead and call the police. Don't threaten us. He had ruined our hunt and we had enough geese anyway, so we packed up and waited back at our trucks in the driveway. Of course, cops came roaring to my friend's farm with sirens on to investigate trespassing hunters.  Police calmed down when my landowner friend came out of the house and pointed out we were not trespassing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:17:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: USA-M1 Garand classified as a "threat to public safety in... The same rifle was practically given away to general population under civil marksmanship program... and I'm talking about 3-4 years ago. Another way to show how ignorant, stupid, but at the same time elitist democrats are. Vladyslav - --- On Wed, 10/13/10, Dennis & Hazel Young wrote: From: Dennis & Hazel Young Subject: USA-M1 Garand classified as a "threat to public safety in the To: "Firearms Digest" Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 10:34 AM WORLD NET DAILY - OCTOBER 12, 2010 Obama agency busts plan to sell rifles to Americans Feds call popular gun a 'threat,' proposed shipments canceled By Bob Unruh, WorldNetDaily http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=214589 The Obama-run Washington bureaucracy has classified a common and reliable rifle, the M1 Garand, as a "threat to public safety in the U.S.," and the State Department has canceled plans by the Republic of Korea to return tens of thousands of surplus rifles to the U.S. for sale in the consumer market. The stunning classification of an ordinary gun that was used in the U.S. military for two decades and issued to thousands of soldiers and Marines during World War II and Korea as a threat came in a document by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. It is being publicized by Examiner gun rights writer David Codrea, who said the federal agency appeared alarmed that there would be "no more controls [over imported Garands] than any other firearm." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:22 pm From: "Christopher di Armani" Subject: Re: Fantino quote from January 3, 2003 To: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Cc: "Lee Jasper" Dennis and Lee, Katey Montague (KateysFirearmsFacts.com) did a video on this exact topic a few years ago too... http://www.youtube.com/kateysfirearmsfacts#p/u/13/ZScoKM27hCk Yours in Liberty, Christopher di Armani On 2010-10-13 12:18 PM, Dennis & Hazel Young wrote: > Lee: Here's a good Fantino quote from January 3, 2003. I'm pretty sure > he was talking about the handgun registry at this time because the long > gun registry was still in its infancy. > > Thanks, Dennis > > TORONTO POLICE CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO: "We have an ongoing gun crisis > including firearms-related homicides lately in Toronto, and a law > registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us > solve any of them," said Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino. > > "None of the guns we know to have been used were registered, although we > believe that more than half of them were smuggled into Canada from the > United States. The firearms registry is long on philosophy and short on > practical results considering the money could be more effectively used > for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety > initiatives." > > Source: Quote from a News Release by Ontario Minister of Public Safety > and Security, Bob Runciman, ¯ Eves government urges Ottawa to suspend > gun registry - January 3, 2003. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca > Sent: October-13-10 9:36 AM > To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #133 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:23:11 -0400 > From: Lee Jasper > Subject: Re: Private Members Bill - Robert Head's letter > > Bruce posted: > >> [A letter posted to CGN, which has supposedly been sent to major news >> outlets across the country. We'll see if it gets printed/aired] >> Head writes: >> >> September 15, 2010 >> >> Re: Private Members Bill 'Hoeppner' Long Gun Registry >> >> Many Canadians will find themselves in a quandary over the recent media >> reports and political posturing relating to the Hoeppner Bill which >> calls for abolition of the long gun registry and ONLY the long gun >> registry. >> >> (It is interesting to note that two of Canada's leading innovative >> Chiefs, Rick Hanson of Calgary and Julian Fantino of Ontario, and many >> street level police personnel have made it quite clear that the >> registry is not supported). >> Sincerely, >> >> Robert H.D. Head Assistant Commissioner - RCMP(rtd.) > > I really wish Head would do his homework and stop confusing people with > the facts: > > Chief Rick Hanson (Chief of Police, Calgary Police Service) at the SECU > stated: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=4497859&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=40&Ses=3#Int-3140301 > > We still want to encourage registration, but this can be done through > new regulatory and non-criminal penalties--for example, penalty, ticket, > and fine--administered through individual provinces. To further > encourage people to register, the process should also be streamlined and > simplified. > > But the issue around registration can be more than adequately addressed > through provincial registries that recognize regional differences and > that decriminalize something that ought not to be. > > We're not against a registry that is properly administered and that > decriminalizes the possession of sporting weapons. > > And while Fantino says he does not support the long gun registry now, it > is my recollection that he did back in '95 when he was a high placed > honcho with the CACP. I also have no recollection of any disapproval of > the long gun registry during the period when he was Chief in London. If > he places no value on the long gun registry, how can he support the > handgun registry? > > ------------------------------ - -- Yours in Liberty, Christopher di Armani christopher@diArmani.com http://www.diArmani.com Check out the latest from Katey Montague at; http://www.YouTube.com/KateysFirearmsFacts ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 16:43:34 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: USA-M1 Garand classified as a "threat to public safety in... It's the first step towards banning all guns..ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vladyslav Strashko" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 3:17 PM Subject: Re: USA-M1 Garand classified as a "threat to public safety in... > The same rifle was practically given away to general population under > civil marksmanship program... and I'm talking about 3-4 years ago. > > Another way to show how ignorant, stupid, but at the same time elitist > democrats are. > > Vladyslav > > --- On Wed, 10/13/10, Dennis & Hazel Young wrote: > > From: Dennis & Hazel Young > Subject: USA-M1 Garand classified as a "threat to public safety in the > To: "Firearms Digest" > Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 10:34 AM > > WORLD NET DAILY - OCTOBER 12, 2010 > Obama agency busts plan to sell rifles to Americans > Feds call popular gun a 'threat,' proposed shipments canceled > By Bob Unruh, WorldNetDaily > http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=214589 > > The Obama-run Washington bureaucracy has classified a common and reliable > rifle, the M1 Garand, as a "threat to public safety in the U.S.," and the > State Department has canceled plans by the Republic of Korea to return > tens of thousands of surplus rifles to the U.S. for sale in the consumer > market. > The stunning classification of an ordinary gun that was used in the U.S. > military for two decades and issued to thousands of soldiers and Marines > during World War II and Korea as a threat came in a document by the > Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. It is being publicized by > Examiner gun rights writer David Codrea, who said the federal agency > appeared alarmed that there would be "no more controls [over imported > Garands] than any other firearm." > > > ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #134 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)