Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, October 15 2010 Volume 14 : Number 138 In this issue: Re: "Step back in time" Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #134 Re: Angus backs Bill to improve the gun registry Letter to Northern News (just submitted) ... Alberni Valley Times - Letter - Long-gun registry isn't that... Edmonton Journal - Man dies after shooting in north Edmonton Re: Letter to Northern News (just submitted) ... Analysis of Bill C-580 Abbotsford Times - Firearms seizures shoot up Hamilton Mountain News-Police probe east-end alley shooting death durhamregion.com - Letter - Gun registry data saves lives ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 00:14:14 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: "Step back in time" Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #134 Bill's "Step back in time" This is an excellent site. I browsed through the Swiss militia article the meeting of then Solicitor General Wayne Easter with the CUFOA cross Canada tour, so far. On reflection, the Swiss strategy of citizen militia in a small Alpine country surrounded by less democratic, sometimes outright frightening governments in the countries that surround it has been an excellent one. In Canada, the greatest threat to our "free and democratic society" is political corruption in Quebec and Ontario, (who control Ottawa) using their power police and potentially the military, to control the governments of less corrupt provinces e.i. the Western provinces so they can "steal" their natural resource wealth. Which is to some extent what they've done and are still doing. But the potential for them to massively increase that exploitation will require taking political control provincially which, will be much easier a generation from now. There are scenarios, but I don't want to give them any ideas. Since 1995, I've found myself feeling more loyalty to my province than to an alienating, autocratic federal state, aspects of which I've learned to fear. The RNWPolice were begun as a "para-military", exercising federal policy on the far away colonials. That is still part of their role in the Western provinces. They should be living up to their Constitutional responsibility and have their own provincial police force. It could be supported by a citizen provincial police auxillary(militia) which would, in effect, guarantee provincial political integrity. As a Canadian historical note. Those who remember the history of the On to Ottawa Trekkers would know that the Premier wanted them to be able to continue on through Saskatchewan to Ottawa to press their grievances before the federal government, an historical Common-law right. Instead, the Prime Minister (Bennett) ordered the RCMP(who replaced the S.P.P. during the Depression when the provincial government was short of money) to stop the trekkers in Regina, starting what then became known as the Regina riots. That and also the RCMP shooting and killing 3 striking coal miners on strike in Estevan was a contributing cause to the election of the CCF in 1944. It was a new party not controlled by the historical mid-eastern elites in Ottawa, Montreal and Toronto. That it's descendent, the current NDP, are overly influenced by the politically correct big city, Toronto NDP(Jack Layton) types is one reason they've lost power in Saskatchewan. Without the power of the RCMP over the Maritime and Western provinces bill C-68 would have failed politically. On 13-Oct-10, at 4:53 PM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:04:17 -0400 > From: Bill > Subject: A Step back in time! > > Years ago, I had a website called "The Canadian Liberal GunFarce". > I kept it up until I could no longer afford the time it took away > from my business. It received an average of 6,000 hits a month in > the years it was up. Then, Geocities shut down. The web site > vanished along with literally thousands of others. Just doing a > google search, I discovered that many of the web sites that were > previously on Geocities, had been preserved, along with several > pages of the C.L.G.F.. on a site called Reocities.com As far as > I can tell, The site is complete from it's inception at Mar. 2001 > until September 2003 (I actually stopped at the end of July 2006) > including the front page that had a LOT of good links, and many > are still valid. Heres the link to the front page, > > http://www.reocities.com/Liberalgunfarce/frontpage.html > > Enjoy!! It probably has many valid links to documents that have been > either forgotten, or lost in time... > > Bill > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 08:06:55 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Angus backs Bill to improve the gun registry I HOPE HIS CONSTITUENTS THROW THIS MEALY MOUTHED BACK STABBER , two faced lying SOB, OUT AT THE NEXT ELECTION. eD/on - -------- Original Message -------- From: "Lee Jasper" To: "Canadian Firearms Digest" Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: Angus backs Bill to improve the gun registry > Angus backs Bill to improve the gun registry > > By CHELSEY ROMAIN, QMI AGENCY > Posted 1 day ago >> http://www.northernnews.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2797267 > > He may have voted to keep the long-gun registry, but MP Charlie Angus > (NDP --Timmins-James Bay) said a new bill would solve a lot of the > issues rural Canadians have. > > Angus, seconded by Nickel Belt MP Claude Gravel, tabled a private > member's bill Friday, which he said addresses the concerns of rural > residents while enhancing public safety. > > "We've come forward with what we think is a very good road map on > addressing the long-standing problems with both the registry and the > need to ensure public safety," Angus told The Daily Press. "At the end > of the day this isn't rocket science. > > "These are just long-standing irritants that can be fixed." > > Angus was one of the 153 MPs who voted against scrapping the registry > last month, saying facts showed police services across the country > benefit from the registry. > > The new bill includes the decriminalization of first-time offenders, > ensures registration remains free, protects the privacy of gun owners' > identifying information and allows for more flexibility for those who > inherit guns. > > Since the registry was introduced 15 years ago, there has been much said > about the amount of money that has been spent to get it in place. Angus > said he didn't support the money being spent in the first place. But, > now that the investment has been made, the best course of action for the > government is ensuring it was money well spent. > > "You see all kinds of crazy numbers being thrown out there and the > Conservatives are throwing higher and higher numbers out there," he > said. "Let's bring the auditor general back in now and ensure and show > we're getting value for our dollars." > > Angus said rural residents, especially hunters and farmers, feel the > registry treats them as criminals. Yet restricted weapons are still > finding their way into the hands of criminals on Canadian streets. > > The proposed bill lays out the steps the NDP feel the federal government > needs to take to close up importation loopholes. > > "Guns are getting into the country that aren't being registered and the > RCMP has said they are ending up on the black market," said Angus. > "Rural people don't want that and urban people are certainly concerned > about it, so let's fix those loopholes." > > A second loophole, he said, can be found within the commercial > importation of guns. Angus said the federal government need to come up > with ways where guns imported commercially are clarified and proven to > be hunting rifles in order to remain in the unrestricted category. > > "There are guns on the street that should be restricted that are getting > into the country because the government won't close that loophole," > Angus said. > > That hasn't happened yet, according to Angus, because government sees > the registry as useless and not as a way to separate restricted and > unrestricted guns. > > When Angus threw his support behind keeping the registry last month, he > knew he was going to have to deal with people upset with his decision. > Since then, though, he has said he's had a lot of "great conversations," > a lot of positive conversations as well as encountering people who are > angry with him. > > "People are very passionate about the rural way of life," he said. "But > I think people haven't been presented a clear set of alternatives that > can address their problems. > > "Let's address public safety, but let's make sure rural people aren't > made to feel the brunt of being made to feel like criminals." > > There has already been some skepticism the bill will make any headway > before a federal election is called, but Angus said they are taking > steps to ensure the bill receives a full debate. > > While the Conservatives have only passed three bills during the last > session of parliament, Angus said that doesn't mean his bill won't fly. > > "If we get good will from other parties, we're going to get this thing > on the political agenda," he said. > > Now that the bill has been publicly released, the NDP will be looking > for suggestions on ways to further improve their proposal. > > > Letter To The Editor [On-line Form] > http://www.northernnews.ca/feedback1/LetterToEditor.aspx > > -- > > FYI; >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Angus > > SUMMARY > >> http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=4688255&Language=e&Mode=1&File=19 > > This enactment amends the Criminal Code to remove the first time offence > of possession of a firearm other than a prohibited firearm or a > restricted firearm without having registered that firearm under the > Criminal Code. It clarifies that firearm possession proceedings under > that Act do not abrogate or derogate from any existing rights of the > aboriginal peoples of Canada. > > It also amends the Firearms Act to eliminate the fee for registration of > a firearm that is neither a prohibited firearm nor a restricted firearm. > It imposes more control on the release of records that are kept under > that Act and that could be used to identify an individual, and ensures > that the Chief Firearms Officer, in determining whether a person is > eligible to hold a firearms licence, may review records relating to that > persons discharge from or unsuccessful application for membership in a > law enforcement agency or the military. > > Finally, it amends the Contraventions Act to designate a first time > offence under section 112 of the Firearms Act as a contraventions > offence for the purposes of the Contraventions Act. [This was something > the CPC claimed was not possible a few weeks ago]. > > Entire document: > >> http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Docid=4688255&file=4 > > Bill C-580 > Summary > Bill C-580 > CRIMINAL CODE > FIREARMS ACT > CONTRAVENTIONS ACT > COORDINATING AMENDMENTS > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:50:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Letter to Northern News (just submitted) ... Dear Sir/Madame, Charlie Angus apparently either doesn't understand the Canadian Firearms Act, and why the registry is such an "irritant" to law abiding firearm owners, or he simply doesn't care. In order for the registry to fall under Federal Jurisdiction instead of property which is properly under Provincial jurisdiction, simple firearm ownership had to fall under criminal law. No problem, Alan Rock just criminalised simple firearm ownership, and with a pen-stroke exposed millions of law abiding citizens to criminal charges relating to paper infractions (section 91, 92 of Criminal Code). With a simple tick of the clock, a law abiding citizen can go from respectable to criminal, subject to fine, up to ten years of imprisonment and financial ruin. This is not an "irritant". This is an egregious affront to the Charter right to presumption of innocence, due process and the rights and freedoms accorded to the citizens of a liberal democracy. If Charlie Angus weren't so busy playing politics, and if he truly wanted to fix the problem, he'd have voted to repeal the registry, and return Canada to the previous ownership regime which had every real public safety measure we currently enjoy, but also respected the rights of the law abiding, all without a long gun registry. Mr. Angus' proposal does not address the "irritants", and he himself has just become one. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:59:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Alberni Valley Times - Letter - Long-gun registry isn't that... http://www2.canada.com/albernivalleytimes/news/opinion/story.html?id=d4a97355-bb8b-4042-aceb-66598f07b064 Long-gun registry isn't that bad for Canada Christopher Massop, Alberni Valley Times Published: Friday, October 15, 2010 Any person wishing to obtain a firearm must first acquire a Possession and Acquisition License. The PAL carries a fee of $60 for non-restricted, $80 for restricted, and is renewable every five years. Expiry dates are set on the holder's birthday following the fifth anniversary of the initial issue of the licence. So what's the problem? A question of whether the government should regulate the ownership and operation of firearms. Of course they should. We regulate fishing, we regulate automobiles. Why not guns? I am not a hunter, but support the right to hunt. I am not some bleeding heart, but in this country we all paid government fees for every thing, why should long guns be any different? Why is The National Rifle Association, a powerful lobbying group in the United States that advocates fewer gun controls, actively involved in trying to abolish Canada's long-gun registry for more than a decade? We really are making Stephen Harper's dream of Canamerica the state come true. We are Canadians, and for the most part, I think we like the gun registry. Stop your American-style Conservative Party fear mongering rhetoric. It seems Harper doesn't like to let facts or truth get in the way of his American ideological agenda. So, to all long gun owners, stop whining and pay your 60 bucks. When the head of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police says members at the annual meeting have endorsed a national firearms strategy, I say, if the cops think it's a good thing and it helps, that's good enough for me. Sincerely, Christopher Massop Port Alberni Managing editor Cale Cowan CCowan@avtimes.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:22:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Edmonton Journal - Man dies after shooting in north Edmonton http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/dies+after+north+side+shooting/3673689/story.html Man dies after shooting in north Edmonton By Conal Pierse and Brent Wittmeier, edmontonjournal.com October 15, 2010 EDMONTON Witnesses heard as many as four gunshots Thursday afternoon in north-end Beaumaris and saw a man running down 100th Street, hunched over and clutching his arm, screaming, "Help me." The man climbed into the passenger seat of an All Star Towing and Recovery truck, which travelled a short distance before stopping at 158th Avenue and 98th Street. That's where a woman saw paramedics treating an unresponsive man, who was lying on his back in a driveway, his feet crossed. There were no signs of blood. She said the man appeared to be in his early 20s, had dirty blond hair and wore a light-coloured track suit. "They were trying to resuscitate him," she said. "His feet were on the sidewalk and his head was on the driveway." The man died. Homicide Det. Robert Mills wouldn't confirm if the victim died from gunshot wounds. Police took the male tow truck driver away for questioning, saying they were unaware of his relationship to the victim. Nearly an hour after the slaying, the yellow tow truck was still parked at the scene, its doors open and lights flashing. Witnesses said the truck was attempting to tow a grey Infiniti G35 with a flat front tire away from 159th Avenue and 100th Street at the time of the shooting. Vince Bavaro was chatting with neighbours Victoria and Giuseppe Chiesa in their backyard when he heard three or four shots. Bavaro and the Chiesas ran to the front yard, where they saw a man holding his arm and pleading for help. Victoria Chiesa described the man as young. Bavaro said the man then turned around, ran up the street, and climbed into the tow truck, which sped away. Another neighbour heard the shots from her house. She may have seen the killer. "I was standing in my living room, and all I saw was somebody dressed in black running through the gate after the shots." She saw the victim doubled over near the tow truck, which looked as though it was about to tow the Infiniti. She said the car had been parked there since early Thursday morning. Other witnesses said the Infiniti does not belong to the owner of the home where it was parked. On the opposite side of the yard where the killer fled, police had taped off the south end of an alley. The back gate of one home appeared to have been kicked open, and a black ball cap and grey tennis shoe could be seen on the ground. Ashley Golder was putting her four-month-old baby to sleep when she heard the sound of gunshots, which she initially mistook for roofers working nearby. "It was like a nail gun," she said. "It's shocking. I don't want to live here any more. I just want to leave." This is the 21st homicide in Edmonton this year. With files from Ben Gelinas cpierse@edmontonjournal.com bwittmeier@edmontonjournal.com © Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:23:38 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Letter to Northern News (just submitted) ... Nice way of saying " a pain in the a**" LOL.......ed/on - --------- Original Message --------- From: "Rob Sciuk" To: "Canadian Firearms Digest" Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 11:50 AM Subject: Letter to Northern News (just submitted) ... > Dear Sir/Madame, > > Charlie Angus apparently either doesn't understand the Canadian Firearms > Act, and why the registry is such an "irritant" to law abiding firearm > owners, or he simply doesn't care. > > In order for the registry to fall under Federal Jurisdiction instead of > property which is properly under Provincial jurisdiction, simple firearm > ownership had to fall under criminal law. No problem, Alan Rock just > criminalised simple firearm ownership, and with a pen-stroke exposed > millions of law abiding citizens to criminal charges relating to paper > infractions (section 91, 92 of Criminal Code). With a simple tick of the > clock, a law abiding citizen can go from respectable to criminal, subject > to fine, up to ten years of imprisonment and financial ruin. > > This is not an "irritant". This is an egregious affront to the Charter > right to presumption of innocence,due process and the rights and freedoms > accorded to the citizens of a liberal democracy. > > If Charlie Angus weren't so busy playing politics, and if he truly wanted > to fix the problem, he'd have voted to repeal the registry, and return > Canada to the previous ownership regime which had every real public > safety measure we currently enjoy, but also respected the rights of the > law abiding, all without a long gun registry. > > Mr. Angus' proposal does not address the "irritants", and he himself has > just become one. > > Sincerely, > Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:27:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Analysis of Bill C-580 If anyone cares to see my analysis of "Turncoat" Charlie Angus' Private Member's Bill C-580, you can check it out on my blog: http://akimoya.wordpress.com/2010/10/13/the-ndp-“compromise”-plan-–-part-i/ http://akimoya.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/the-ndp-“compromise”-plan-%e2%80%93-part-ii/ http://akimoya.wordpress.com/2010/10/15/the-ndp-“compromise”-plan-%e2%80%93-part-iii/ Comments are open... Yours in TYRANNY! Bruce "It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - From The Declaration of Arbroath, 1320. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:25:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Abbotsford Times - Firearms seizures shoot up http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/news/Firearms+seizures+shoot/3677114/story.html Firearms seizures shoot up By Rafe Arnott, The Times October 15, 2010 http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/news/3672555.bin?size=620x400 Abbotsford police have seized 225 firearms so far this year, a jump of 53 per cent from 2009, when 147 guns were taken off the streets, according to department statistics. While the spike in gun seizures can be partly attributed to people turning the weapons over to police after the registered owner has died, APD Const. Ian MacDonald said some guns are reported anonymously. "In a lot of instances we're getting people who are phoning after a relative has passed away," MacDonald said, "Or it's a family heirloom they no longer want . . . but we're coming across firearms we can't attribute to a specific person." The recent seizure of a restricted - and loaded - 7.62 mm semi-automatic, high-powered assault rifle from a storage locker was the result of police acting on information they received on an individual known to law enforcement, MacDonald said. And while officers couldn't definitively tie the weapon to the person of interest in the investigation, MacDonald said they were nonetheless relieved to get the assault rifle off the street. "We had to secure that firearm, if by warrant, then we would have gone that way. But, in this case, the warrant wasn't required because the ownership of the storage facility wasn't in question," MacDonald said. Regardless of whether the firearms seized are aged shotguns or assault rifles, MacDonald said getting weapons that police cannot trace ownership to off the street is paramount. With shots-fired calls down (26 in 2010 compared to 84 in 2009), and firearms seizures up, MacDonald said the department wished it could take credit and link the two. "We'd love to be able to say we're seizing more guns before people shoot them, but I don't think that's the case," MacDonald said. "When and where we come across a [firearm] we're obviously seizing it." While big guns are showy, and look as formidable as they perform, MacDonald said smaller firearms are still the preferred weapon of organized crime and gangs in the Lower Mainland. "We've come across assault rifles in our warrant executions, but still the weapons of choice are handguns," he said. "[Assault rifles], because they're difficult from a portability standpoint, and not easily concealed, [are used less] . . . handguns are easily carried around and can be kept close at hand." Cross-border shipments involving drugs for cash and guns are bringing more weapons to criminals in Canada, MacDonald said. "Firepower that is utilized in the United States, and to a lesser degree Mexico, is going to be observed more frequently on our side of the border." RArnott@abbotsfordtimes.com editorial@abbotsfordtimes.com Copyright (c) Abbotsford Times ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:35:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Hamilton Mountain News-Police probe east-end alley shooting death http://www.hamiltonmountainnews.com/news/article/221621 Police probe east-end alley shooting death News Oct 14, 2010 Police say they are still trying to determine the manner of death of a Hamilton man who was found dead with a single gun shot wound to his head in an east-end alley on the weekend. They haven't decided what they've got there, Sgt. Terri-Lynn Collings said, citing murder, suicide, accident or undetermined as possible explanations. The victim, identified as Dave Shell and described as being in his early 30s in media reports, was found in an alley off Melvin Avenue just east of Parkdale Avenue North at around 10 p. m. on Saturday. editor@hamiltonmountainnews.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:56:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: durhamregion.com - Letter - Gun registry data saves lives http://newsdurhamregion.com/article/163774 Gun registry data saves lives Oct 11, 2010 - 04:30 AM To the editor: As a former Toronto police officer of 31 years and a designated child domestic/sexual abuse investigator, I would like to respond to the J.Ewans letter about the gun registry program. When the gun registry took hold and a domestic call was received, this registry was a good tool and still is to advise responding officers about any registered rifles in the home before arriving on scene. An investigator has to know if a suspect possesses firearms prior to a court release. This information does save lives. If one life is saved, the few million involved in this registry is worth it. I really don't think this is turning anyone into criminals but making people who own deadly weapons more responsible and protecting those who are more vulnerable in our society. Bill McLean Retired detective 2332, Regional Councillor Ward 2 City of Pickering Steve Houston, opinion page editor shouston@durhamregion.com ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #138 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)