Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, November 6 2010 Volume 14 : Number 163 In this issue: NFA-CSSA Cooperation - My emails to NFA & CSSA Re:"The Rule of Law" Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #161 CUFOA Court Case USA: What is the NFA (National Firearm's Act)? RE: M72- Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #160 BRITAIN: Army cadets banned from carrying rifles ... Trio ‘most dangerous’ cop ever saw Robbed gun shop RE: BRITAIN: Army cadets banned from carrying rifles ... Re: Police, game officials patrol rural areas during annual hunt UK: Cadets banned from carrying rifles on a Remembrance Day parade ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 18:54:04 -0700 (PDT) From: N BAZINET Subject: NFA-CSSA Cooperation - My emails to NFA & CSSA To Whom It May Concern: We have two fine organizations representing the Recreational Firearms Community (RFC) in Canada, namely the National Firearms Association (NFA) and the Canadian Shooting Sports Association (CSSA). Both follow the same basic operating principles and organizational structures. Both organizations compete for a limited number of members and gun clubs across the country. There are benefits to having competing organizations and I think this is healthy for the RFC. One only needs to look south of the border to find countless pro-gun groups using different tactics and approaches (e.g. NRA, GOA, JPFO, etc.). Different groups foster different ideas with varying levels of success. Indeed, the NFA and the CSSA have some philosophical differences. For example, the NFA promotes conceal-carry and the use of firearms for self-defense as well as recreatioanl use. On the other hand, the CSSA promotes the use of firearms purely for recreational purposes. However, these differences do not justify the destructive behavior that is on-going between the two groups. Gun owners are tired of the pissing match between the NFA and the CSSA. The RFC has enough problems without unnecessary conflicts between groups. We have too many important things to achieve without adding in-fighting to our problems. The RFC deserves and expects better than this. We have much in common and have to learn to work together. We recently lost a major battle in the war on gun control with Bill C-391. Another bout of gun controls and confiscations are around the corner as soon as another shooting incident occurs on a Canadian campus. Divide and conquer is a favored tactic of politicians and they love to take advantage of it. On Dec.10-12, 2010, the NFA is holding a Canadian Firearms Summit in Vancouver. I trust that the CSSA will be well represented at this Summit to show that the two organizations can work together to design proactive strategies to protect the interests of the RFC. Sincerely Norm Bazinet NFA Membership #XXXXXXX; CSSA Membership #XXXXXX PS. I received responses from NFA indicating that they have amply notified and invited CSSA to this event. NFA has heard nothing back. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 20:25:39 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re:"The Rule of Law" Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #161 >The Harper Conservative government eagerly passed a new law a little >while ago. It provides for a mandatory 3 year prison sentence for >illegal possession of a restricted/prohibited handgun. It is pandering >to anti-gun Toronto. Watch your gun license expiry date folks. Under sections 91 and 92 it is a criminal code offense to be in possession of ANY firearm after your license expires. If you are a handgun owner and your license expires you can expect the three year minimum sentence if you are charged and convicted. There is no grace period in either the firearms act or criminal code for an expired firearms license. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 20:38:57 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: CUFOA Court Case Re: CUFOA Court Case We now have the Federal Crown Counsel's Brief of Law posted: http://www.cufoa.ca/articles/armes/armes_28_oct_2010.html Joe Gingrich, Jack Wilson, & I will be in Court of Queen's Bench in Saskatoon next Tuesday, 09 November 10 a.m. for a Judicial Review of the RCMP's confiscation of my shotgun in October 2003. Sincerely, Edward B. Hudson DVM, MS Secretary Canadian Unlicensed Firearms Owners Association Association canadienne des proprietaires d'armes san permis 402 Skeena Crt. Saskatoon Saskatchewan S7K 4H2 (306) 242-2379 (306) 230-8929 edwardhudson@shaw.ca www.cufoa.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, November 5, 2010 10:39 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: USA: What is the NFA (National Firearm's Act)? NAPLESNEWS.COM - NOVEMBER 5, 2010 What is the NFA (National Firearm's Act)? Blogs > Florida Law by J. Patrick Buckley http://blogs.naplesnews.com/florida-law/2010/11/what-is-the-nfa-national-firearms-act.html "NFA" is short for a federal law called the National Firearm's Act. It was enacted on June 26, 1934 and is found in the United States Code at 26 U.S.C. 53. The statute placed a tax on, among other things, the transfer of certain firearms and other related items, and requires federal registration of those firearms and related items. Florida has no firearm's registration so if you move from out of state, and you bring some firearms with you; there is no way to register those firearms with the state of Florida. Now if those firearms are regulated by the NFA, you must report your move to the BATFE (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives), sometimes knows as the "ATF" or "BATF". The NFA was adopted shortly after prohibition to keep what some considered "gangster weapons" off the street. I met a local radio host yesterday and he related a story of shooting one of his uncle's Thompson Sub-Machine guns, often referred to as a "Tommy Gun". This firearm became very popular in World War II, was named for its inventor, General John Thompson, and was designed to provide soldiers with a light firearm maintaining strong firepower. My conversation led me to thinking about the Tommy Gun, and then back to the NFA. Sadly the soldier wasn't the only one that could appreciate the effectiveness of the Tommy Gun; gangsters, including Al Capone, also understood the value of the firearm. While the law has changed over time, today the NFA regulates and taxes a number of items such as the short barrel shotgun (SBS); short barrel rifle (SBR), each of which have a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length; fully automatic firearms; suppressors, also known as silencers; and destructive devices such as grenades. There is also a class of items regulated and taxed by the NFA vaguely identified as "Any other Weapons", or "AOWs", which is a fail-safe category that includes items such as, pen guns, cane guns, and firearms that can be shot from inside a briefcase. One item that causes trouble is a handgun with a forward vertical grip. Before anyone takes an aftermarket vertical grip and places it on a pistol, they must first register that item with the BATFE and pay a $200 tax. Why do NFA items require a $200 tax stamp? Back in 1934 $200 was worth much more than it is today. I used the inflation calculator at westegg.com, entered $200, the initial year 1934 and the ending year 2009, since it doesn't allow anything more recent. According to the inflation calculator $200 in 1934 is the equivalent of $3,171.13 in 2009. According to paper-dragon.com, the average worker in 1934 earned $1,368.00. So while the $200 NFA tax is not cost prohibitive today, it was certainly intended to be a deterrent back then. No doubt this created quite a rush in 1934 when every gangster in Chicago had to run out to the ATF to register their sub-machine guns. If a civilian would like to purchase a fully-automatic firearm, that firearm must have been manufactured and registered with the BATFE prior to May 19, 1986. There have been many fully-automatic firearms manufactured and sold since May 20, 1986, but their sale has been legally restricted to the government, military, and law enforcement. One common misconception is that a special license or permit is required to purchase or own NFA items. There is no such permit or license available to an individual. A Federal Firearm's Licensee (FFL) is required to be properly licensed to sell these items, but no special license or permit is available to the rest of us. In order to purchase an NFA item, the item must first be registered with the BATFE in the NFA registry, which tracks all NFA items. In order to purchase an NFA item, BATFE approval is required. There are a few ways to accomplish this such as receiving approval from a CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) like the local sheriff or chief of police; forming a corporation or LLC; and forming a NFA Trust, which will be the subject of a later article. The approval period can take anywhere from 1-3 months, and once done that firearm cannot be handled or transported unless the firearm's registered owner is present. The BATFE isn't going to follow someone around once the transfer is made, these transactions seem exotic, but they are rather routine fare. The BATFE does have the authority to examine the NFA item, and the original BATFE form with the tax stamp to prove ownership, but no other law enforcement agency has this authority. ______________________________ Send questions to J. Patrick Buckley by e-mail to Buckley@jpbesq.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 12:51:31 -0400 From: Mark L Horstead Subject: RE: M72- Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #160 > From: Larry James Fillo > Sent: 3-Nov-10 1:43 AM > To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: Re: M72- Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #160 > So, what would your estimated score be, on say 10 old Ladas > full of IED laden jihadis at 200 meters? > Stationary, as old Ladas aren't that reliable. > Hypothetically speaking, of course. :) Funny that you should ask. A long-standing fantasy involved Ladas and M72s, but Ladas are probably as rare as found M72s these days... But, hypothetically speaking, how many M72s do I get to accomplish the task? Because, hypothetically speaking, I could happily do that all hypothetical day. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, November 5, 2010 12:21 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: BRITAIN: Army cadets banned from carrying rifles ... DAILY MAIL - NOVEMBER 5, 2010 Army cadets banned from carrying rifles on Remembrance Day parade because it 'glamourises' weapons By Daily Mail Reporter http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1327034/Army-cadets-banned-carrying-rifles-Remembrance-Day-parade-glamourises-weapons.html?ito=feeds-newsxml# Army cadets have been left 'bitterly disappointed' after being banned from carrying rifles on a Remembrance Day parade - amid fears the weapons might 'upset' onlookers. The young cadets have proudly marched with rifles for decades and around 100 had spent months fine-tuning the drill where the youngsters would showcase their skills. But the cadets were left 'gutted' just days before the big event when military top brass cut the rifles from the display following complaints from members of the public. They were warned the rifle display during the march in Plymouth, Devon, could be deemed as 'glamourising' weapons. Cadets were left 'bitterly disappointed' by the late change, which organisers today branded 'political correctness gone mad'. Basil Downing-Waite, chairman of the Federation of Plymouth and District Ex Services Associations, which organised the event, said: 'It's political correctness gone mad. I feel bitterly disappointed because it gives the young people a sense of responsibility. They are delighted to do these displays.' The Remembrance Day march is still due to go ahead, but without rifles. A senior cadet instructor said the children had been left 'very upset' by the ruling. Police Chief Inspector Brendan Brookshaw said his son Henry and daughter Rosie were 'very disappointed' at the late change. More...Medals belonging to test pilot who paved the way for heroic Dambuster raid is up for auction 'STAND CLEAR!': The moment a palace guardsman saw red with some cheeky Germans. He added: 'This week the commanding officer for Plymouth cadets told them they couldn't do it anymore because some member of the public complained about cadets marching with rifles. They have been doing it forever. My children have been doing rifle drill displays for the past four years and I did it when I was a cadet.' Chief Inspector Brookshaw added that his son was one many Plymouth cadets who marched carrying rifles as part of a Freedom of the City parade in September. But Devon Cadet Executive Officer Major David Waterworth put an end to the tradition after he ruled the carrying weapons was 'not good for the image' of cadets. He said: 'There is no need for children to appear in public with weapons. It does upset some members of the public.There is no need for it. It doesn't reflect our aims and ethos in the Army Cadet Force. We are not soldiers. People say it's traditional at Remembrance parades, but there is no need to carry a weapon to remember the dead. I stopped it as soon as I heard they were doing it. It's not good for our image to have children carrying weapons in public. We are not members of the Armed Forces - we are a youth movement sponsored by the Ministry of Defence.' He added that a ruling against children carrying rifles had been in place for ten years, but had not been enforced until now. - -------------------- COMMENTS What next? I suppose the general public will demand non lethal bullets soon in case we breach someones human rights in battle. Get real Britain. Soldiers use rifles and bayonets in todays world to kill an opponent. War is not a politically correct thing like our now famous non competitive sports days at school. It is simply kill or be killed. I am surprised some daft local councilor hasn't made them march with umbrellas at the ready! How on earth did we manage to build an empire and win two world wars? - - Magnus, Stornoway, 05/11/2010 18:06 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 15:48:29 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Trio ‘most dangerous’ cop ever saw Robbed gun shop Trio ‘most dangerous’ cop ever saw DEADLY CRIME SPREE By JANE SIMS The London Free Press http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2010/11/05/15984556.html Roshan Norouzali was part of a trio one seasoned police veteran described as "three of the most dangerous men I've come across." They were the 'Balaclava Bandits', the ski-masked hoodlums who terrorized the London-area 15 years ago on their violent and gun-packed crime wave. There were to be feared. Before they were finally caught after an armed holdup of National Grocers in St. Thomas, they had terrorized, threatened, and shot up two London banks and two London grocery stores.. Today, Norouzali already serving a life sentence for two counts of first-degree murder after he was convicted on March 20, 1998, faces another murder charge for the cold case file that has befuddled police since 1992. Norouzali is charged in the death of Lawrence Paul Kitakijick, 27, a migrant tobacco worker from northern Ontario whose body was found near the Tecumseh monument near Thamesville. Kitakijick had been shot in the head and body. He was found by a family who had stopped at the monument to the famous native leader of the War of 1812. **A week before the London Balaclava Bandit crime wave began and two hours away in Oshawa, Norouzali's violence had already reached another level when he and the much feared Ronald Woodcock stole a car from an innocent bystander named Ken Thomas, 55, from Pickering, shot him in the head, then proceeded to rob Gagnon Sports where they killed the owner, Roger Pardy, 43, wounded three others and stole 11 guns**. Two of the weapons - both 45 calibre handguns with the serial numbers ground off - would later be found when the pair, plus fellow Balaclava Bandit Deryck Thompson were caught in St. Thomas, just 22 days after Norzourali became a Canadian citizen. He was born in Iran and conscripted into the army in the mid-1980s. But he deserted several times and ended up defecting to avoid a prisoner of war camp. He ended up in London and became a faithful companion - described as a "foot soldier" in court - to Woodcock, a violent career criminal. Norouzali was convicted with Woodcock for the first degree murders of Thomas and Pardy after a high-profile trial in Whitby. The crimes were particularly brutal. On Sept. 14, 1994, Thomas died near the Pickering nuclear plant, shot execution-style, after his car was commandeered by Woodcock and Norouzali. They drove to the sporting goods store where they went in, guns blazing. Woodcock shot Pardy in the temple after accusing him of not co-operating. Norouzali cut his hand after smashing the gun display case, leaving behind DNA that would later be matched to Thomas's car. Five days after the murders, the London siege began at the Bank of Nova Scotia on Springbank Dr. The bandits smashed though the glass door before the bank opened and the bank manager later described one of the men as acting "like a mad dog." One shot was fired at the manager, but missed. No money was taken. On Nov. 11, 1994, at the Valdi's supermarket on Wharncliffe Rd., a clerk was counting her cash in the manager's office, when the bandits burst in. One of them held a silver handgun to her head, demanding money. Later police discovered a bullet had been shot into the store's sign. Two months after the sporting goods murders, the gang hit the Toronto Dominion Bank on Wellington Rd S., just after a Brinks crew had delivered $250,000 There was a gunshot as soon as they entered the bank. One teller had a gun put to her face demanding money and that she open the safe. She explained it was on a timer and couldn't be opened. So, the gunman shot at it. Another employee was shot at and dragged into the vault. "Open the safe. I know Brinks is coming," he demanded. The robbers became frustrated when it was apparent the safe could not be opened. Just three days before Christmas, the Bandits hit again, this time at the National Grocer's warehouse in London on Frances St. They held a gun to the clerk's head while he followed their orders. He stuffed $7,000 into an airline flight bag. A similar Wardair Canada bag was later found at Woodcock's house. When they hit the National Grocers outlet in St. Thomas on March 10, 1995, the Bandits didn't know 40 police officers were on their tail and had them under surveillance for three months. They entered the store and ordered the customers to get on the floor. One customer was shot in the leg by Woodcock. The store manager was threatened that if he didn't open the safe, he would be shot. Norouzali was jumping around, yelling and pointing his gun in people's faces. Thompson minded the door. The loot amounted to $59,000 in cash and cheques. But the Balaclava Bandits didn't have much time to celebrate - they were arrested almost immediately. Woodcock's wife had tipped off the London police months earlier that Woodcock and Norouzali were planning to rob a Brinks truck and she feared someone would be killed. Woodcock, then 43, was sentenced to 17 years for his part in the St. Thomas robbery, while Norouzali, then 32, and Thompson, then 42, each were sentenced to eight years. Norouzali and Woodcock had concurrent time added to their life terms for attempted murder, robbery, theft of a vehicle and a spate of gun charges. After their murder convictions, the courts decided not to proceed with 55 charges Woodcock and Norouzali faced related to the London robberies to savecourt and taxpayer time. Chronology of a crime spree http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2010/11/05/15984041.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, November 5, 2010 2:32 pm From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: BRITAIN: Army cadets banned from carrying rifles ... ... on Remembrance Day parade because it 'glamourises' weapons The attempt to re-engineer society continues. Army cadets are not necessarily children. The decision supports the idea that even adults are to be considered children where weapons are concerned. The idea that citizens are responsible for the defense of country and family is turned on its head. The idea that government, increasingly unelected, even foreign is to be trusted is being rammed down the throats of citizens worldwide. Unfortunately the Brits are at the forefront of this lethal stupidity. It looks like testosterone is a controlled substance in Britain, and gonads are only handed out to servants of the state on a gender-equal basis. Clive Edwards - -----Original Message----- From: Dennis & Hazel Young [mailto:dhyoung@shaw.ca] Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:21 AM To: Firearms Digest Subject: BRITAIN: Army cadets banned from carrying rifles on Remembrance Day parade because it 'glamourises' weapons But Devon Cadet Executive Officer Major David Waterworth put an end to the tradition after he ruled the carrying weapons was 'not good for the image' of cadets. He said: 'There is no need for children to appear in public with weapons. It does upset some members of the public.There is no need for it. It doesn't reflect our aims and ethos in the Army Cadet Force. We are not soldiers. People say it's traditional at Remembrance parades, but there is no need to carry a weapon to remember the dead. I stopped it as soon as I heard they were doing it. It's not good for our image to have children carrying weapons in public. We are not members of the Armed Forces - we are a youth movement sponsored by the Ministry of Defence.' He added that a ruling against children carrying rifles had been in place for ten years, but had not been enforced until now. - -------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 23:25:08 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: Police, game officials patrol rural areas during annual hunt Ontario has long had a anti-hunting bias. Now the prejudice can use the threat of heavy criminal sanctions for a plethora of firearms laws and regulations. The agents of the state feel no compunction persecuting the morally innocent. They're using hunters as a scapegoat for the violent criminals that Ottawa protects, shelters and subsidizes. Besides just think of how much lower the murder rates would be if it wasn't for that annoying practice of hunters coming across the human remains of murder victims in the rural areas surrounding cities and towns. Politicians don't care about the victims of crime but worry about how bad the statistics make them look. There is a method in their madness. Prof. Gary Kleck (Univ. of Florida) proved hunters were more law abiding than the non-hunters of the general public. Facts don't matter when regulating a privilege, they only count when regulating a Right. On 5-Nov-10, at 9:05 AM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 21:54:46 -0500 > From: Lee Jasper > Subject: Police, game officials patrol rural areas during annual =20 > deer hunt > > [What happened to compulsively law-abiding]? > > Police, game officials patrol rural areas during annual deer hunt > > By Claire Brownell, The Ottawa Citizen November 3, 2010 7:03 PM > > http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Police+game+officials+patrol+rural+areas+during+annual+deer+hunt/3773010/story.html > > OTTAWA - Deer hunters take note: Ottawa police and Ministry of > Natural Resources officials will be patrolling Ottawa's rural areas > for the rest of the hunting season. > > Police and ministry officials will be making sure hunters are > complying with regulations under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation > Act and the Trespass to Property Act. They'll also keep an eye out > for hunters breaking federal laws about the possession, storage and > authorized use of firearms and ammunition. > > Police reminded rural residents to stay safe during deer hunting > season, which opened on Tuesday and will continue until Nov. 14. They > also reminded drivers to obey the speed limit, scan roads and shoulders > for wildlife and slow down after spotting a deer on the side of the > road. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, November 6, 2010 12:13 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: UK: Cadets banned from carrying rifles on a Remembrance Day parade TELEGRAPH - NOVEMBER 6, 2010 Rifles banned from cadet parade Army cadets have been banned from carrying rifles on a Remembrance Day parade amid fears the weapons might "upset" onlookers. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8113041/Rifles-banned-from-cadet-parade.html The young cadets have marched with rifles for decades and around 100 had spent months fine-tuning their drill before this year's parade. But the cadets were told days before the big day that they would have to abandon their guns following complaints from members of the public. They were warned the rifle display during the march in Plymouth, Devon, could be deemed as ''glamorising'' weapons. Cadets were left ''bitterly disappointed'' by the late change, which organisers yesterday (fri) branded ''political correctness gone mad''. Basil Downing-Waite, chairman of the Federation of Plymouth and District Ex Services Associations, which organised the event, said: ''I am bitterly disappointed''. He added: ''It's political correctness gone mad. I feel bitterly disappointed because it gives the young people a sense of responsibility. They are delighted to do these displays.'' More than 100 cadets from across Plymouth spent months preparing for the annual event which is the highlight in their calendar. The Remembrance Day march was still due to go ahead last night (fri) but with the rifle aspect withdrawn. A senior cadet instructor said the children had been left ''very upset'' by the ruling. Police Chief Inspector Brendan Brookshaw (corr) said his son Henry and daughter Rosie re ''very disappointed'' at the late change. He added: ''This week the commanding officer for Plymouth cadets told them they couldn't do it any more because some member of the public complained about cadets marching with rifles. They have been doing it forever. My children have been doing rifle drill displays for the past four years and I did it when I was a cadet.'' Chief Inspector Brookshaw added that his son was one many Plymouth cadets who marched carrying rifles as part of a Freedom of the City parade in September. But Devon Cadet Executive Officer Major David Waterworth (corr) put an end to the tradition after he ruled the carrying weapons was ''not good for the image'' of cadets. He said: ''There is no need for children to appear in public with weapons. It does upset some members of the public. There is no need for it. It doesn't reflect our aims and ethos in the Army Cadet Force. We are not soldiers. People say it's traditional at Remembrance parades, but there is no need to carry a weapon to remember the dead. I stopped it as soon as I heard they were doing it. It's not good for our image to have children carrying weapons in public. 'We are not members of the Armed Forces - - we are a youth movement sponsored by the Ministry of Defence.'' He added that a ruling against children carrying rifles had been in place for ten years, but had not been enforced until now. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #163 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)