Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, March 27 2011 Volume 14 : Number 340 In this issue: Vancouver shooting war 'justified' gun sale by undercover cops re: "police state" & data base The Race is on ..... Turkey says Yemen-bound shipment of 16,000 pistols illegal CTV NEWS - American facing weapons charges in Alberta Obama says he didn't inform Mexico of U.S. gun smuggling operation regarding: New York Times Police Chiefs Lobby How Killing Libyans Became a Moral Imperative Texas mulls letting workers cart guns Re: Texas mulls letting workers cart guns ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, March 26, 2011 9:50 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Vancouver shooting war 'justified' gun sale by undercover cops GLOBAL BC - MARCH 26, 2011 Metro Vancouver shooting war 'justified' gun sale by undercover cops, officer testifies Rise in gang-related murders spurred tactic, deputy chief says By Keith Fraser, The Province: Thursday, March 24, 201 http://www.globaltvbc.com/world/Metro+Vancouver+shooting+justified+sale+undercover+cops+officer+testifies/4495184/story.html The "shooting war" raging in the Lower Mainland in 2008 justified a decision to have undercover officers sell firearms to target gangsters, a senior Vancouver cop testified Wednesday. The comments were made by Vancouver police Deputy Chief Doug LePard during the trial of two men alleged to be high up in the Sanghera criminal group. LePard told B.C. Supreme Court Justice Victor Curtis that he approved an exemption to allow the undercover officers to sell the guns to the two targets. He said police were frustrated by the inability to solve an increasing number of gang-related murders. Police agencies in the Lower Mainland met in September 2008 and decided to target three groups they believed to be involved in the violence, LePard said. One group was in the South Slope area of Vancouver and had as its main target Udham Singh Sanghera, he said. "The context was that there was a shooting war that we were very concerned about," said LePard. "We made a decision we were not going to be simply reactive, but that we were going to be proactive and target those we believed were most likely engaged in violence in our streets." LePard said that police emergency response teams and surveillance teams were involved to ensure there was no danger of losing control of the weapons. Prosecutor Carol Fleischhaker asked LePard whether it was necessary to commit criminal acts in order to further the investigation. "There was no other reasonable alternative to gather the evidence necessary to make a case," he replied. Udham Singh Sanghera, the alleged head of the Sanghera group, and his alleged right-hand man, Gordon Robert Taylor, have pleaded not guilty to various gun-related offences. Court has heard that they allegedly purchased four guns for $4,000 from undercover cops in February 2009. Taylor's lawyer has filed an abuse of process application, alleging that the sale of the weapons by police was illegal and that his client was entrapped. Sanghera, who is self-represented after being denied legal aid, is adopting those arguments. The trial continues. kfraser@theprovince.com twitter.com/keithrfraser ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:41:34 -0700 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: re: "police state" & data base Yes, 'Big Brother' is watching ...... If you have ever written an editorial letter on gun-control or made your views on C-68 known publicly, you are probably in the data base. Those who have attended large rallies and been videoed lead the list. Certain words and phrases used on the soacila media and public forums are known to raise 'red flags' and focus attention. Doesn't seem to stop mad men from going off the rails, however. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:53:08 -0700 From: "Todd Birch" Subject: The Race is on ..... The race is on in the 'first-pace-the-post' farce we call a federal election. For those who don't know, that means the party that gets 40% of the popular vote gets to form a majority government. Too bad we aren't also voting on a new electoral system like proportional representation. Yes, that would cost money, but $100, $200, $300 million or so, pretty soon you're talking serious money .... ;>); so what's a few more bucks down the political drain. We are going to hear a lot about the "C" word (no, the other one ....), which effectively equates to minority government like we've had for the past several years. If Iggy, Baldy and Gilly were really on the ball, they'd be pushing for a referendum on proportional representation. That is the only way they are ever going to get a workable 'coalition', a broader political spectrum and a Green party rep in the House of Commons. It's costing us money for Elizabeth May to run, so we may as well give her a shot at a seat. And somebody please help me with an intelligent argument as to why a Quebec separatiste is even allowed to run in a federal election. My American friends are curious. Only in Canada, you say ..... ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, March 26, 2011 12:01 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Turkey says Yemen-bound shipment of 16,000 pistols illegal Yemen News Agency - March 25, 2011 Turkey says Yemen-bound pistol shipment illegal http://www.sabanews.net/en/news238396.htm ANKARA, March 25 (Saba) - Turkey said on Friday the pistol shipment intercepted in Dubai while on its way to Yemen this week was illegal. Anadolu News Agency quoted a spokesman for the Turkish Foreign Ministry as saying that the 16,000 Turkish-made pistols shipped to Saada province in northern Yemen and which were apprehended by the police in Dubai were not authorized by the Turkish government. Earlier today, Turkey said an investigation was launched into the seizure in cooperation with the concerned countries, a day after Dubai's police chief Dahi Tamim revealed the shipment had been intercepted before reaching Yemen. Associated Press - March 23, 2011-03-26 Dubai police stop Yemen-bound shipment of weapons DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) - Dubai police have seized 16,000 Turkish-made pistols hidden in a sea cargo shipment bound for Yemen, officials said Thursday. Authorities said the guns were headed to Yemen's restive Saada region, where Shiite rebels have fought government forces for years. Dubai's government described the find as the largest arms shipment of its kind discovered in the region. [READ MORE] http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jGr5d-lxhaFtjLAHUcbZ_vswJVfw?docId=2aa7773489844a9e900ceabec4a7554a ------------------------------ Date: Sat, March 26, 2011 12:05 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: CTV NEWS - American facing weapons charges in Alberta CTV NEWS - American facing weapons charges in Alberta Updated: Fri Mar. 25 2011 16:26:02 - ctvcalgary.ca http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110325/CGY_weapons_charges_110325/20110325/?hub=CalgaryHome An American man is facing weapons-related charges after officers at the Canada-U.S. border seized three firearms, prohibited magazines and ammunition from his vehicle. The Canada Border Services Agency says officers at the Coutts port of entry in southern Alberta seized the firearms Monday. The man failed to make a proper declaration at entry to Canada, was arrested and turned over to Milk River RCMP. Officers found a restricted loaded .40 calibre handgun under the front passenger seat. In the cab of the vehicle, officers found a .22 calibre collapsible rifle, and a restricted 5.56 calibre semi-automatic carbine assault rifle. Five prohibited magazine cartridges for the semi-automatic rifle and ammunition were also seized. Richard Lamarr Packer, 30, faces seven weapons-related charges. He is expected in Lethbridge provincial court on June 27. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 17:03:54 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Obama says he didn't inform Mexico of U.S. gun smuggling operation http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texas-on-the-potomac/2011/03/obama-says-he-didnt-inform-mexico-of-u-s-gun-smuggling-operation-because-he-didnt-know-about-it/ Obama says he didn't inform Mexico of U.S. gun smuggling operation because he didn't know about it 03/24/2011 by Richard Dunham, Bureau Chief Under fire for an operation that allowed smuggling of U.S. weapons across the nation's border with Mexico, President Obama said in an interview that neither he nor Attorney General Eric Holder authorized the controversial "Operation Fast and Furious." The Mexican government has complained that it didn't know about the U.S. operation that allowed guns to illegally cross the southwestern border so they could track the weapons. Obama told Univision's Jorge Ramos that President Felipe Calderon wasn't informed of the operation because he - the president of the United States - wasn't informed either. When asked whether he knew of the weapon smuggling plan, Obama responded that it is "a pretty big government" with "a lot of moving parts." The investigation into the program comes after it was connected to two weapons that were found at the scene of a border shootout that killed U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry in December. Likewise, a gun smuggled from the U.S. were used to kill Immigration and Customs Enforcement special agent Jamie Zapata, but it has not been determined if it was part of "Fast and Furious." When President Calderon came to visit Washington recently, the two presidents came together on a policy to stop drug and weapon smuggling across the border. "Our policy is to ram up the interdiction of guns flowing south because that's contributing to some of the security problems that are taking place in Mexico and what we're doing is trying to build the kind of cooperation between Mexico and the United States that we haven't seen before," Obama told Univision. The president said his attorney general has been "very clear that our policy is to catch gunrunners and put them into jail." The controversial operation was the subject of a CBS News Investigation that reported ATF was allowing traffickers to bring weapons into Mexico in order to track them rather than arresting the traffickers. Obama said Holder has assigned an inspector general to investigate what happened, because he does not know who authorized the operation. "Letting guns 'walk' is not something that is acceptable," Holder said during a Senate Appropriations Subcommittee hearing. "Guns are different than drugs or money when we are trying to follow their trail. That is not acceptable." Holder said he made this clear to attorneys and ATF agents. >>> On the jump page: Complete transcript of the exchange from Univision JR: THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT COMPLAINS THAT THEY WERE NOT INFORMED ABOUT THE "FAST AND FURIOUS" OPERATION. DID YOU AUTHORIZE THIS OPERATION AND WAS PRESIDENT CALDERON PROPERLY INFORMED ABOUT IT? PBO: Well, first of all I did not authorize it. Eric Holder, the Attorney General, did not authorize it. He's been very clear that our policy is to catch gun runners and put them into jail. So what he's done is he's assigned an I.G., an inspector general, to investigate what exactly happened. JR: SO WHO AUTHORIZED IT? PBO: Well, we don't have all the facts. That's why the I.G. is in business. To collect the facts. JR: AND YOU WERE NOT EVEN INFORMED ABOUT IT? PBO: Absolutely not, this is a pretty big government, the United States government. I got a lot of moving parts. But I want to be very clear, I spoke to President Calderon when he came to visit just a few weeks ago, our policy is to ramp up the interdiction of guns flowing south because that's contributing to some of the security problems that are taking place in Mexico and what we are doing is trying to build the kind of cooperation between Mexico and the United States that we haven't seen before. That ensures that we have a comprehensive approach. I've said to President Calderon and I've said it publicly, we've got obligations. It's not just Mexico's problem, it's also our problem. We got to reduce demand for drugs, which is why even though we got obviously significant deficits; we are allocating 10 billion dollars in our budget to try to reduce demand through prevention programs and education programs. We have to make sure that we are enforcing the kinds of measures that will stop the flow of guns and cash down south that is helping to fuel these transnational drug cartels. So we've initiated excellent cooperation, there may be a situation here in which a serious mistake was made, if that's the case then we'll find out and will hold somebody accountable. JR: MEXICO WAS NOT INFORMED THEN? PBO: Well, if I wasn't informed I assure you that Mexico wasn't either. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 17:41:04 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: regarding: New York Times Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:48:21 -0400 From: Jules Sobrian Subject: New York Times I subscribe to both the CFD and the New York Times. I thought I was reading the NYT this morning when I suddenly came near the end to an article about guns. What is with medicare, Libya, Japan nuclear meltdown, food contamination? I thought CFD stood for Canadian Firearms Digest. Subject: Police Chiefs Lobby > Date: Fri, March 25, 2011 4:20 pm > From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" > Subject: ELECTION PRIORITIES: Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police > > From: Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police > Date: 2011/3/25 > Subject: An Election is the Time to Raise our Priorities! Be Part of > the Discussion! > > AN ELECTION IS THE TIME TO RAISE OUR PRIORITIES! > Be Part of the Discussion! Legislation passed to create most police forces SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS political activity. We saw these prohibitions ignored in a big way with Bill C-391 and nobody said anything. Here we go again! Here's an excerpt of what I mean..this is taken from the main RCMP Regulation, enacted by Parliament: Sections 57 and 58 of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Regulations, 1988 read as follows: "57. (1) Subject to subsection 58(2), while a member is participating in a political activity, the member shall not indicate, nor shall the member permit anyone campaigning for the member to indicate, that the member's opinions or comments are made on behalf of the Force. 58. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the Commissioner and all members holding any of the following ranks, officer equivalent level designations, or positions, namely, deputy commissioner, assistant commissioner or chief superintendent, commanding officer, director general or criminal operations officer, shall not participate in political activities. (2) The Commissioner and the members holding the ranks, officer equivalent level designations, or positions referred to in subsection (1) may, on behalf of the Force, present information regarding the provision of policing services by the Force pursuant to municipal, provincial or territorial policing contracts when the provision of such services is the subject of a direct vote by the population." I don't remember anybody announcing a referendum on RCMP services or anything else. Therefore, the exemption in 58(2) does not apply. Result: All officers holding any rank at SHALL keep their mouths shut and all street officers SHALL NOT express any opinion or comment on behalf of their police force. There are similar prohibitions for most other major police forces. WTF! We are infested with police organizations who must think they are above the law. It is stunning that nobody takes them to task in the media. Stunning. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:03:55 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: How Killing Libyans Became a Moral Imperative http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=42493 How Killing Libyans Became a Moral Imperative by Patrick J. Buchanan 03/25/2011 "Who would be free themselves must strike the blow." So wrote the poet Byron, who would himself die just days after landing in Greece to join the war for independence from the Turks. But in that time, Americans followed the dictum of Washington, Adams and Jefferson: Stay out of foreign wars. America "goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own," said John Quincy Adams in his oration of July 4, 1821. When Greek patriots sought America's assistance, Daniel Webster took up their cause but was admonished by John Randolph. Intervention would breach every "bulwark and barrier of the Constitution." "Let us say to those 7 million of Greeks: We defended ourselves when we were but 3 million, against a power in comparison to which the Turk is but as a lamb. Go and do thou likewise." When Hungarian hero Louis Kossuth came to request a U.S. fleet in the Mediterranean to keep the czar's warships at bay, when Hungary sought to break free of the Habsburg Empire, Webster backed him. But Henry Clay and John Calhoun stood against it. "Far better is it for ourselves," said Clay, "for Hungary and for the cause of liberty that, adhering to our wise, pacific system and avoiding the distant wars of Europe, we should keep our lamp burning brightly on this western shore as a light to all nations than to hazard its utter extinction amid the ruins of fallen or falling republics in Europe." When Hungarian patriots rose up against the Soviet occupation in 1956, Khrushchev sent in hundreds of tanks to drown the revolution in blood. Hungary was behind the Iron Curtain, the Yalta-Potsdam line to which FDR and Truman had agreed. There were no U.S. troops on any Hungarian border. So Eisenhower did -- nothing. Indeed, that same month, Ike ordered British, French and Israelis to end their intervention in Sinai and Suez and get their troops out or face sanctions, including the U.S. sinking of the British pound. Was Ike an isolationist? Until the modern era, the idea of sending armed forces across oceans to kill and die for moral or humanitarian causes would have been seen as an insult to the Founding Fathers, an abandonment of a vital American tradition, and ruinous to the national interest. Why are we in Libya? Why are U.S. pilots bombing and killing Libyan soldiers who have done nothing to us? These soldiers are simply doing their sworn duty to protect their country from attack and defend the only government they have known from what they are told is an insurgency backed by al-Qaida and supported by Western powers after their country's oil. Why did Obama launch this unconstitutional war? Moral, humanitarian and ideological reasons. Though Robert Gates and the Pentagon had thrown ice water on the idea of intervening in a third war in the Islamic world -- in a sandbox on the northern coast of Africa -- Obama somersaulted and ordered the attack, for three reasons. The Arab League gave him permission to impose a no-fly zone. He feared that Moammar Gadhafi would do to Benghazi what Scipio Africanus did to Carthage. And Susan Rice, Hillary Clinton and Samantha Power conveyed to Obama their terrible guilt feelings about America's failure to stop what happened in Rwanda and Darfur. This is the three sisters' war. But why was it America's moral duty to stop the Tutsi slaughter of Hutus in Burundi in 1972 or the Hutu counter-slaughter of Tutsis in Rwanda in 1994? Why was that not the duty of their closest African neighbors, Zaire (Congo), Uganda and Tanzania? These African countries have been independent for a half-century. When are they going to man up? The slaughter in Darfur is the work of an Arab League member, Sudan. Egypt, the largest and most powerful Arab nation, is just down the Nile. Why didn't the Egyptian army march to Khartoum, a la Kitchener, throw that miserable regime out, and stop the genocide? Why doesn't Egypt, whose 450,000-man army has gotten billions from us, roll into Tobruk and Benghazi and protect those Arabs from being killed by fellow Arabs? Why is this America's responsibility? When Spain had its civil war in the 1930s, in which hundreds of thousands perished, FDR declared neutrality. A million Ibos died in Nigeria's civil war from 1967-70. No one raised a finger to help them or the million Cambodians who perished in Pol Pot's killing fields. Since Bush I, we have intervened in Panama, Kuwait, Iraq, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Libya. Had Sens. John McCain and Joe Lieberman gotten their way, we would have been fighting Russians in Georgia and bombing Iran. Add up all those we have killed, wounded, widowed, orphaned or uprooted, and the number runs into the millions. All these wars have helped mightily to bankrupt us. Have they made us more secure? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, March 27, 2011 11:51 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Texas mulls letting workers cart guns VANCOUVER PROVINCE - MARCH 27, 2011 Texas mulls letting workers cart guns To-and-from work car park idea http://www.theprovince.com/news/Texas+mulls+letting+workers+cart+guns/4511173/story.html Texas state lawmakers are considering a proposal that would allow workers to drive onto company property with guns in their vehicles. The measure has won approval in the Texas Senate by a 30-to-1 vote and is pending before the Texas House. Schools would be exempt. "We don't call it guns at work. We call it the commuter safety bill," said Alice Tripp, legislative director for the Texas State Rifle Association, the state affiliate of the National Rifle Association. She noted that 13 states have enacted similar legislation. The law would be at odds with the policies of some Texas employers. Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Texas prohibits employees from coming to work with guns. "This is applicable to all of our property, which would include the parking lot," said Margaret Jarvis, a senior manager for media and public relations. She declined to offer an opinion about the proposed legislation. Gun control advocates have cited concerns about gun violence in their opposition to similar laws. "The workplace very often involves tension. ... I think allowing people to bring a handgun, or if they want, even an arsenal of firearms, can only have bad consequences," said Ladd Everitt, director of communications for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. Nationwide from 1997 through 2009, there were 587 fatal workplace shootings where the assailant was a worker or a former worker, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Tripp emphasized that the proposed legislation is not about walking into the workplace with a firearm. "It's to allow you to have a personal safety option on your commute to and from the workplace," Tripp said. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, March 27, 2011 1:33 pm From: "M.J. Ackermann, MD" Subject: Re: Texas mulls letting workers cart guns Do these anti's not listen to themselves? 535 workplace shootings while workplaces are decreed "gun-free zones" Obviously disgruntled employees who are intent on shooting up the workplace do not observe the gun free zones. In fact they very likely enjoy and profit from these victim disarmament zones. They have a guaranteed killing field of defenseless victims. When will the antis ever figure out that gun laws serve only to disarm those unlikely to commit violence while they empower the violent criminals. Had there been the option for an armed defense at these workplace killings, many lives would have been saved. It is absolutely true that when a mass killer comes under defensive return fire, he must stop likking victims and either commit suicide, surrender, or engage the defender in a gun fight. Any of these options allows victims, who would have been killed, to survive. I see no justification for limiting the right to personal defense to a arbitrarily designated zone. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) Rural Family Physician, Sherbrooke, NS mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca "Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst". ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #340 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)