Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, April 4 2011 Volume 14 : Number 355 In this issue: Qur'an protests spread to Afghanistan's turbulent east Community crime report -- ARMED ROBBERY letter to StarPhoenix Prepped for colonoscopy *NFR* [none] Re: PROPOSED "EVIDENCE-BASED" FIREARMS POLICY =?iso-8859-1?Q?President_Calderon's_Eyes_On_The_Wrong_Border?= CTV - Harper renews crusade to abolish long-gun registry CBC POLL - Where do you stand on the long-gun registry? RE: PROPOSED "EVIDENCE-BASED" FIREARMS POLICY let's give it a good look ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 09:28:34 -0700 (PDT) From: enigma1 Subject: Qur'an protests spread to Afghanistan's turbulent east While it might have seemed imprudent (in these politically correct charged days) for the good pastor to burn their 'Holy Book' in public, the pastor was exercising his God given right to self expression as any free man in a democracy is entitled to do. Instead of suggesting that he be deposited into a frenzied crowd of illiterate, dogmatic, misogynistic savages, perhaps you ( Lee) should prefer to take to task those very individuals who beheaded a female UN worker and slaughtered, in the name of Allah, fifteen of her co-workers for their perceived slight. It makes me want to wretch my breakfast to think that we are sacrificing the cream of our youth and a king's ransom in our tax monies in trying to bring 'democracy' to such a despicable and worthless people. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:24:50 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Community crime report -- ARMED ROBBERY http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Community+crime+report/4553411/story.html The StarPhoenix April 4, 2011 ARMED ROBBERY This week, Crime Stoppers needs your help with solving an armed robbery. Just after midnight on Saturday, Jan. 22, a male entered a store in the 800 block of Broadway Avenue. He wore sunglasses but didn't remove them. After ordering a sandwich, he picked up a few items and went to the washroom. When the clerk started processing his order, the suspect pulled a knife on him and demanded money. He left the store with a small amount of cash. The suspect is described as a young, aboriginal male, about 5foot-10 with a slim build. He also wore a green zip-up hoodie with the hood up and gloves. If you have information about this crime, or any other unsolved crime in Saskatoon, call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS. Tips can be provided on-line at www.saskatooncrimestoppers. com. Crime Stoppers will pay a cash award up to $2,000 for information that leads to an arrest. Crime Stoppers is a proven program that gets results. When you call Crime Stoppers you don't have to give your name and you won't have to appear in court. Crime Stoppers is a community-based program operated in conjunction with police. Its affairs are controlled by a volunteer board. © Copyright (c) The StarPhoenix ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:25:41 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: letter to StarPhoenix letter sent, unpublished I read the 'Community crime report', The StarPhoenix, April 4, 2011 with keen interest. In it we learn that an armed crimal "suspect pulled a knife on a store clerk and demanded money. The suspect is described as a young, aboriginal male, about 5 foot-10 with a slim build. He also wore a green zip-up hoodie with the hood up and gloves." Eight things come to mind. 1. If Police Chief Clive Weighill had his knife registry bureauacracy functioning his knife police would have an immediate array of suspects from which to interrogate, just like his gun registry lists. The rationale being that a knife registry would make it possible for his knife police to remove all knives from dangerous people. 2. Chief Weighill would have only a list of responisble, innocent, reputable, reasonable, blameless Candian knife owners as suspects from which his knife police could interrogate. 3. Chief Weighill could add an additional wing for his knife police onto his big new police station. 4. Chief Weighill would find his knife registry useless as this perpetrator likely would not have registered himself and/or his knife with the Chief. Weighill would still have to use his real police performing traditional police investigative work anyway. All this after infringing upon the liberties of many people and at a tremedous cost. 5. Chief Weighill could further his efforts to "contol crime" and "improve public safety" by fabricating a wrench registry, a tire iron registry, a bottle registry, a rock registry, a stick registry, a firearms registry -- oops Weighill already has that one with all the frills. 6. According to firearms expert Dr. Gary Mauser, "There is no convincing evidence that gun laws have had any effect on crime rates. The homicide rate has not fallen since the introduction of the longgun registry in 2001. It was 1.78 per 100,000 population in 2001 and it is 1.81 per 100,000 in 2009 (the most recent year statistics are available).(1) Why would Chief Weighill have ever wanted a knife registry? Please guess. 7. We need a new evidenced-based firearms law in Canada, which only targets criminals. 8. The Saskatoon Police Service needs help ---and to solve this crime. Joe Gingrich Box 2409 Nipawin, Sask., S0E1E0 Source: 1. VANCOUVER PROVINCE - APRIL 1, 2011 Handguns favourite by Gary Mauser http://www.theprovince.com/news/Handguns+favourite/4540753/story.html Re "We're not all plaid shirts, say gun owners," by Ethan Baron: http://www.theprovince.com/news/plaid+shirts+owners/4519782/story.html There is no convincing evidence that gun laws have had any effect on crime rates. Despite tight controls on handguns in Canada, our criminals continue to prefer handguns. Almost all of which are smuggled. The homicide rate has not fallen since the introduction of the longgun registry in 2001. It was 1.78 per 100,000 population in 2001 and it is 1.81 per 100,000 in 2009 (the most recent year statistics are available). Few of the firearms used in violent crime (including homicide) are either registered or owned legally. According to published statistics from both the RCMP and Statistics Canada, gun owners are actually less likely than other Canadians to commit murder. Gary Mauser, Professor Emeritus, Simon Fraser University ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:33:42 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Prepped for colonoscopy *NFR* http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Prepped+colonoscopy/4553443/story.html Prepped for colonoscopy By Phyllis Johnston, The StarPhoenix April 4, 2011 For years I have been under the care of Dr. Stephen Harper. I have no confidence in him, but he does make House calls after vacationing in Prorogue. After suffering severe colic and nausea I could get no diagnosis from Dr. Harper. One time he called in his interns, Jack and Gilles. Jack promised he'd care for my elderly mother, but he did not believe in nuclear medicine. Gilles spoke a weird language but he wanted to do some cultures. Unfortunately, he has privileges at only one of 12 laboratories. They all blew smoke up my butt, and I felt worse. I sought a second opinion from Dr. Michael Ignatieff. He'd returned to practice after two decades away, but he fed me a mixture of cock and bull in hopes of pushing through his agenda. When Harper found out I was looking elsewhere, his behaviour became so contemptible that Jack, Gilles and Mike all turned on him. So on March 26, he and Dr. David Johnston GG, scheduled a colonoscopy for May 2. To prepare, all four GPs recommend verbal laxative for 38 days. The diarrhea is non-stop. I'm tired, nauseated, hungry for some real fodder, and dislike being in a sitting duck position. duck position. Elizabeth May is wafting ecofriendly freshener to clear the air. On May 2, without anesthetic I will fully experience the pain, but no cure will be found. Phyllis Johnston Saskatoon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 14:34:26 -0400 From: Bill Subject: [none] Gecko/20110303 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.9 To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: A Scrap the registry pol here.. Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2011/04/long-gun-registry-where-do-you-stand-on-the-long-gun-registry.html Yes 63.06% (280 votes) No 36.04% (160 votes) I'm not sure 0.9% (4 votes) Total Votes: 444 Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:58:21 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Re: PROPOSED "EVIDENCE-BASED" FIREARMS POLICY Thanks, Dennis, The Conservatives already have good policies (and principles), as this one would be. However, the front man and his small group of Con party elite turn into Lieberals once they attain power, dragging the whole party along with them to the left. " If you want to test a man's character, give him power." Abraham Lincoln Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Joe Gingrich" Cc: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 8:18 AM Subject: PROPOSED "EVIDENCE-BASED" FIREARMS POLICY > No one I know Joe. > > Dennis > ------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 11:36:33 -0600 > From: Joe Gingrich > Subject: PROPOSED "EVIDENCE-BASED" FIREARMS POLICY > > Date: Sat, April 2, 2011 10:41 am > From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" > Subject: Long-gun registry largely ignored on fed election campaign trail > > - - ------------------------------------ > > PROPOSED "EVIDENCE-BASED" FIREARMS POLICY > > Once we form a majority government we will take steps to fully implement > the > party's firearms and property rights policies. This will involve taking a > purely independent "evidence-based" approach to all gun control policies > and > programs. If gun control measures are working to improve public safety, > reduce violent crime and keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, we > will keep them. If they don't achieve these three simple objectives, > we'll > repeal them. It's time that our gun control laws are determined by their > effectiveness - not public perception. > > - -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dennis, > > Would you please list the politicos, with references, who have been openly > supporting this proposed policy? > > Yours in Tyranny, > Joe Gingrich > White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 13:05:21 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?President_Calderon's_Eyes_On_The_Wrong_Border?= EXCERPT: NRA-ILA GRASSROOTS ALERT Vol. 18, No. 13 04/01/11 President Calderon's Eyes On The Wrong Border http://www.nramedia.org/t/53587/7238398/2965/0/ Blaming America for Mexico's problems has been something of a national pastime for Mexican politicians for many years. True to tradition, Mexican president Felipe Calderon has been blaming Mexico's astronomically high murder rate on Americans who buy drugs and who sell guns, rather than on the Mexican drug cartels who commit a vastly disproportionate share of those murders, and the historic corruption in Mexico, from which the wicked cartels have spawned. However, an article published by the Mexico City newspaper La Jornada suggests that el Presidente might better serve the good people of his country by looking to his southern border, instead of al norte.. As explained in English by the Latin American Herald Tribune, "The most fearsome weapons wielded by Mexico's drug cartels enter the country from Central America, not the United States, according to U.S. diplomatic cables disseminated by WikiLeaks and published on Tuesday by La Jornada newspaper. Items such as grenades and rocket-launchers are stolen from Central American armies and smuggled into Mexico via neighboring Guatemala, the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City reported to Washington." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, April 4, 2011 1:11 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: CTV - Harper renews crusade to abolish long-gun registry CTV NEWS - APRIL 4, 2011 Harper renews crusade to abolish long-gun registry By: CTV.ca News Staff http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110404/harper-ontario-riding-110404/20110404?hub=BritishColumbiaHome Speaking in Ontario's agricultural heartland Monday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper renewed his commitment to abolish the long gun registry, calling the program an example of how the opposition "simply doesn't get it." Speaking in the NDP-held riding of Welland, Ont., Harper said the Liberal-created program targets law-abiding hunters while doing nothing to stop criminals. The Conservatives are hoping to recapture the riding from New Democrat Malcolm Allen -- an MP who voted against a Conservative motion to abolish the long-gun registry, after originally supporting it. Harper, speaking with a backdrop of supporters sitting on hay bales, blamed the failed bill on a Liberal-led coalition that ignored the wishes of rural voters. "It is a question of whether or not you get it," Harper said. "Ignatieff, the NDP and Bloc Quebecois coalition simply doesn't get it." Harper said a majority Conservative government would make the registry's cancellation a top priority. "Our Government has long opposed the wasteful and ineffective long-gun registry," he said. "We must stop targeting law-abiding gun owners, and instead focus our resources on real criminals." Harper said a Conservative government would also create a hunting and wildlife advisory panel that would bring "common sense" back to Ottawa, on rural issues. The Conservative leader was also asked about new revelations about former senior staffer Bruce Carson. The Canadian Press revealed Monday that Carson was convicted on five counts of fraud -- three more than previously known -- and received court-ordered psychiatric treatment before coming to work as one of Harper's top advisers. Harper said the convictions were related to events that took place long before Carson came to work for him, and that when he did he was a respected man in Ottawa. However, Harper said it's clear the system for background checks needs to be improved. - ------------------------- PROPOSED "EVIDENCE-BASED" FIREARMS POLICY - DRAFT #1 Once we form a majority government we will take steps to fully implement the party's firearms and property rights policies. This will involve taking a purely independent "evidence-based" approach to all gun control policies and programs. If gun control measures are working to improve public safety, reduce violent crime and keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, we will keep them. If they don't achieve these three simple objectives, we'll repeal them. It's time that our gun control laws are determined by their effectiveness - not public perception. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, April 4, 2011 1:19 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: CBC POLL - Where do you stand on the long-gun registry? CBC - Long-gun registry: Where do you stand on the long-gun registry? April 4, 2011 12:51 PM | Read 17 comments 17 - By Community Team http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2011/04/long-gun-registry-where-do-you-stand-on-the-long-gun-registry.html Conservative Leader Stephen Harper is promising once again to eliminate Canada's long-gun registry if the Conservative Party is re-elected. The Conservatives have frequently denounced the contentious registry, which requires the registration of all firearms in Canada. It was established by the Liberal government of Jean Chrétien in 1995. The Conservatives have attacked the program as wasteful and ineffective, citing the program's start-up costs -- once estimated at $1 billion. But the RCMP has come out in favour of the registry, arguing it now costs only $4 million to run, and is key in helping police keep track of firearms ownership across the country. In September 2010, a Conservative private member's bill designed to scrap the registry was scrapped after a vote of 153 to 151. Where do you stand on the long-gun registry? Should the Conservatives persist in trying to scrap it? Why or why not? Share your thoughts in the comments field below. RESULTS AS OF 1:15 PM MT Should the Conservatives persist in trying to scrap the long-gun registry? Yes 64.17% (480 votes) No 34.09% (255 votes) I'm not sure 1.74% (13 votes) Total Votes: 748 - ----------------------------------- - ------------------------- PROPOSED "EVIDENCE-BASED" FIREARMS POLICY - DRAFT #1 Once we form a majority government we will take steps to fully implement the party's firearms and property rights policies. This will involve taking a purely independent "evidence-based" approach to all gun control policies and programs. If gun control measures are working to improve public safety, reduce violent crime and keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, we will keep them. If they don't achieve these three simple objectives, we'll repeal them. It's time that our gun control laws are determined by their effectiveness - not public perception. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, April 4, 2011 1:38 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: RE: PROPOSED "EVIDENCE-BASED" FIREARMS POLICY We have lots of evidence of that: (1) Failure to expose the total true costs and total ineffectiveness of Bill C-68 especially when compared to the gun control regime in effect in 1994. (2) Failure to expose the effectiveness of FACs compared to POLs and PALs. (3) The failure to clean the Liberals and anti-gun types out of the Canada Firearms Centre and RCMP. (4) Owners of legally registered 12(6) handguns forced into the courts to have their valuable legally owned property seized and destroyed(after a simple fix was passed by Parliament by the previous Liberal Government). Total cost to taxpayers and gun owners still a secret. (5) The initial approval (by the PMO and Minister of Public Safety) of the amendments in Breitkreuz's Bill C-301 and then killing them when it came time for debate. Missed opportunity to change public perception about the ineffectiveness of "Made-in-Ottawa paper crimes in Bill C-68. (6) Continued threats by the RCMP of reclassification of firearms from restricted to prohibited. (7) No commitment to do anything more than get rid of the long-gun registry if they get a majority after years of promises to "Repeal ALL of Bill C-68." (8) (9) PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THIS LIST!! - -----Original Message----- From: Joe Gingrich [mailto:whitefox@sasktel.net] Sent: April-04-11 12:58 PM To: Canadian Firearms Digest Cc: Dennis & Hazel Young Subject: Re: PROPOSED "EVIDENCE-BASED" FIREARMS POLICY Thanks, Dennis, The Conservatives already already have good policies (and principles), as this one would be. However, the front man and his small group of Con party elite turn into Lieberals once they attain power, dragging the whole party along with them to the left. " If you want to test a man's character, give him power." Abraham Lincoln Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 13:16:24 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: let's give it a good look Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 00:02:40 -0500 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Who's afraid of a Tory majority? [Ya gotta see this. Article is by William Johnson, author of the 2005 book, Stephen Harper and the future of Canada. The main thing is to see a photo of Harper as a Reform party candidate in 1988. A youthful 'helmet head' or 'walking hair' you will see]. Who's afraid of a Tory majority? Harper's goal is to lead Canada's new natural governing party. He won't do anything to mess that up, writes William Johnson By WIlliam Johnson, The Ottawa Citizen April 1, 2011 > http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/afraid+Tory+majority/4540006/story.html In the article, Johnson writes: > When he addressed his party's convention after the 2008 elections, > his leitmotif was this: "The Conservative Party is Canada's party." > That was then more a hope than a reality. But it remains Harper's > ultimate goal to which everything else is subordinate: to make the > Conservative Party with conservative values the quintessential party > of Canada. Does Johnson not recognize that what is unsettling about Harper to Manning Reformers and Davis Conservatives is that 'his' vision is not 'their' vision. I think it would be safe to say that both Manning and Davis disown Harper. ==================================== A Reform Government will Repeal Bill C-68 (Preston Manning) We will also conduct a review of all firearms legislation as recommended by the Auditor General of Canada in his 1993 Report. We need the enforcement of the present laws and tougher penalties for the criminal use of firearms. Reform will bring in a crime bill to achieve this objective. The present and past governments have used gun control to make Canadians believe they are doing something about crime in Canada when they are not. "Bill C-68 is nothing more than a pretence that the government is making our homes and street safer and getting tough on criminals." (Jack Ramsay, M.P., Hansard, June 12, 1995) And, here are the reasons why . . . 1. Unilateral Prohibition Powers Section 117.15 of Bill C-68 grants the Minister of Justice through the Governor in Council the power to prohibit any firearm which, in his opinion, is not reasonable for hunting and sporting purposes. This power is immune to parliamentary or judicial review. Currently, Section 84(1)(e) of the Criminal Code prevents the prohibiting of any firearm commonly used for hunting and sporting purposes. Firearms owners are concerned that Bill C-68 is one more step toward the eventual confiscation of all firearms. The Justice Minister has stated this is not true. Why then has the Minister, who banned 58% of all legally owned handguns in this country, granted himself and his successors, autocratic powers to prohibit any firearm in Canada? 2. Autocratic Regulating Powers Section 119(2) of Bill C-68 allows the Minister of Justice to make firearm regulations without Parliamentary review if the regulation, in his opinion, is "immaterial", or "insubstantial" and under Section 119(3), if the regulation is "urgent." Currently, Section 116(2) of the Criminal Code requires the Justice Minister to lay every regulation before Parliament at least thirty days before its effective date. This section of Bill C-68 negates our Parliamentary system of checks and balances which democratically ensures that the government of the day does not exercise autocratic powers. What may be "immaterial," "insubstantial" or "urgent" in the opinion of the Minister may be "material," "substantial" and "not urgent" in the opinion of Members of Parliament or the general public. 3. Inspection Powers - Businesses Section 102 of Bill C-68 permits an inspector to enter a business or any place other than a dwelling-house without a warrant at any reasonable time if they believe that there are more than 10 firearms or a collection present. If however, under Section 104(1)(a) the business is operated from the dwelling-house, the portion of the house used for business may be entered without a warrant. Evidence a crime has been committed is not required. (Note: Police officers can and will be inspectors pursuant to this legislation.) Section 103 of Bill C-68 requires that every person found in the place of inspection provide the inspector with all reasonable assistance or be subject to a criminal charge. Currently, under Section 101(1) of the Criminal Code, peace officers can only search premises other than a dwelling house in exigent circumstances without a warrant where they believe on reasonable grounds that an offence is being committed or has been committed and it is not practical to obtain a warrant. 4. Inspection Powers - Dwellings Section 104 of Bill C-68 states that an inspector cannot enter a dwelling-house to search for firearms or to ensure compliance with firearms regulations without the "consent" of the "occupant". If consent is not given, a warrant can be obtained even though no evidence exists to believe a crime has been committed or is about to be committed. Currently, Section 101(1) of the Criminal Code prohibits the entrance of a dwelling-house without a warrant. And, a warrant cannot be obtained unless a police officer has reasonable proof that a crime has been or is about to be committed. The intrusive nature of these provisions directly affect the civil liberties of firearms owners who, under current Code provisions, are protected from unwarranted searches. The requirement to provide reasonable assistance places an individual in a position of self- incrimination. And, as "occupant" is not defined, the consent of a babysitter is sufficient to gain entry into a home. This entry can occur without any reasonable belief that a crime has been committed. 5. Draconian Penalties Bill C-68 provides three different penalties for failing to register a firearm: Maximum penalty of a summary conviction procedure (six months and/or $2,000 fine) - Section 112 Firearms Act. Maximum term of imprisonment of 5 years or summary conviction - Section 91(1) Criminal Code. Maximum term of imprisonment of 10 years - Section 92(1) Criminal Code - - knowing neglect to register a firearm. Currently, there are no indictable offences listed under the Criminal Code for a violation of a regulation pertaining to the legal ownership of a firearm. Despite what the Liberal Minister of Justice has said, Bill C-68 may bring about serious criminal repercussions for any Canadian who deliberately or inadvertently fails to properly register a firearm. Compare the ten year sentence for failing to register a firearm to the 10 year sentence given to Denis Lortie for murdering three people in the Quebec Legislature. THIS IS NOT JUSTICE! Bill C-68 requires the licensing of all citizens who own a firearm and the registration of all firearms in Canada. "The government has not provided a common sense justification for the registration of rifles and shotguns. I asked witness after witness who appeared before the committee how the registration of rifles and shotguns would reduce the criminal use of those firearms, and they were not able to answer. I have never heard a straightforward answer from the Justice Minister although I have asked him that question." "We have a handgun registration system that has been around for 60 years. We know it has not reduced the criminal use of handguns because the handgun is the weapon of choice for the vast majority of street criminals. We see that it has been ineffective in this area and we ask why the Justice Minister would want to expand a failed system to include rifles and shotguns." (Jack Ramsay, M.P., Hansard, June 12, 1995) This document outlines only some of the problems with Bill C-68. For more information regarding the gun legislation or any other Justice issue, contact: JACK RAMSAY, M.P. REFORM JUSTICE CRITIC ROOM 747, CONFEDERATION BLDG HOUSE OF COMMONS OTTAWA, ONTARIO K1A 0A6 ramsay@reform.ca Len sez: Let's put the correct interpretation on this: Harper disowned Manning, went into 'hiding' then emerged as a Conservative . . The Harper/CPC does not, in my opinion, carry any of the Reform agenda. Manning clearly set out the dangers of promulgating gun control . and predicted it would be a total failure . . and, guess what . . He was right. Registration . . Yes Licencing . . . NO If anyone is unsure of the distinction . .. please give me a call ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #355 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)