Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, April 15 2011 Volume 14 : Number 386 In this issue: RE: Spring election summed up quite well!! Re: DRAFT: Outdoor Network requests release of firearms studies The Registry - Registration & Licencing RE: The Registry ... Yea or Nay Wrongly convicted Quebec man gets record $13.1 Mil Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #384 Re: "And the young men don't know what it is to be free" Re: CBC OLL: The Registry ... Yea or Nay Re: One for Nine in Court! Re: The Registry - Registration & Licencing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 18:10:17 -0700 From: "Jim Pook" Subject: RE: Spring election summed up quite well!! If this is the kind of crap you believe in - then the Western Block Party is doomed by its own stupidity. No matter how you want to twist the facts, a 757 Jet hit the Pentagon. Period. End of story. With that in mind, I'm voting Conservative. Jim Pook Vancouver Island-North About Michael Ignatieff: "He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow." - George Eliot. "Iggy said 'to vote Liberal to punish the Conservative.' So by his ideology one should punish a toothache by shooting oneself in the face." - "General Wolfe" commentor on CBC website. "In 2005, Vice President Cheney gave 77 percent of his income to charity. He also shot a lawyer in the face, which I think should count for something." - Anne Coulter "Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced." - Albert Einstein - -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca] On Behalf Of Clive Edwards Sent: April 14, 2011 7:59 AM To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: RE: Spring election summed up quite well!! > PS have you found the Pentagon 757 wreckage yet? > ( You know , TWO Rolls Royce RB211 turbofans > 9 feet in diameter ?? ) They would have been shipped to China as scrap in the middle of the night, along with those accounting documents being audited to find the two trillion dollars the Pentagon couldn't account for (the explosion destroyed those records, so Rumsfeld didn't have to explain himself to Congress). I'm sorry; just in case anybody doesn't get the tongue in cheekiness of my statement, a jet could not have hit the pentagon. A missile is the only answer consistent with the evidence, and we know who has a warehouse full of false flags to pull out of their butt when they need to. Clive Edwards Western Block Party Candidate for Chilliwack - Fraser Canyon PO 1073 CSP Vedder Crossing Chilliwack, BC V2R 3N7 45clive@telus.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, April 14, 2011 7:22 pm From: "Rob Sciuk" Subject: Re: DRAFT: Outdoor Network requests release of firearms studies This is a tremendously good idea. I've been after the Guarnieri report for years, but I understand that it is an offical "cabinet secret". I'm not sure even the Liberals can get at it without an act of Parliament. Cheers, Rob Sciuk On Thu, 14 Apr 2011, Dennis & Hazel Young wrote: > Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 17:06:25 -0600 > From: Dennis & Hazel Young > To: Firearms Digest > Cc: Bob Bailey > Subject: DRAFT: Outdoor Network requests release of firearms studies > > Bob Bailey of the Outdoors Network advises that this release should have > been marked "DRAFT". > I will send you the final version once approved by all the members of the > Netork. > > Dennis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis & Hazel Young [mailto:dhyoung@shaw.ca] > Sent: April-14-11 1:54 PM > To: Firearms Digest (cfdmod@scorpion.bogend.ca) > Subject: Outdoor Network requests release of firearms studies > > CANADIAN OUTDOORS NETWORK - FOR RELEASE: April 14, 2011 > Outdoor Network requests release of firearms studies > Hidden documents may offer different perspective on long gun registry > > As part of their election platform, the Liberal party has included its > vision of a ?new and improved? long gun registry, hoping to convince rural > Canadians that they have a solution to the ongoing debate over the badly > flawed firearms system they created. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:59:22 -0600 From: Rocky7 Subject: The Registry - Registration & Licencing > Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 07:27:04 -0700 > From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> > Subject: RE: CBC OLL: The Registry ... Yea or Nay > >> What about licencing? If this subject is so much more important, why >> have all the firearm owners across Canada not made 'Licencing' rather >> than 'Registration' a more salient issue with their gun club >> executive boards, provincial outdoor organizations and local members >> of government? >> >> Why? > > Because most gun owners think of the terms as interchangeable. The > government knows this and supports that confusion. That may be true; it is not true for any of the many gun owners I know. I do think training is necessary these days. That is because too many families are not like the nuclear family I grew up in where I started to go hunting with Dad around 8 yrs. and got my first .22 at age 10. He taught me almost all I ever needed to know about these things. Too many kids don't get that, anymore. Where will they learn, then? In school. As a former school teacher, I brought gun safety instruction into the classroom and always ended the course with a shooting competition. I'd probably be fired to that today. Second, I don't see much difference between the guns with the short barrels or the guns with the long barrels. Or the black ones. Or the ones with 2 barrels. Or flash suppressors. Or silencers. Or adjustable stocks. Or whatever. There's no doubt that the guns with short barrels do need a bit of special training. They operate differently, are used with different techniques and it's real easy to get the muzzle swinging around if you're not paying attention. Not as many parents or mentors own or use pistols. That said, I don't see any other rational difference between the guns with the short barrels and the guns with the long barrels and so I don't want to treat them any differently if at all possible. So, 1) youth need a training source for any firearm; and 2) Pistols do demand some special training. Where's all that going to come from, if not through some sort of licensing process? You do need to be certified for a CCW permit in the U.S. I don't see anybody up in arms about that, nor should there be. If you believe - as I do - that there should be no difference to speak of between short and long barrels, then I think I have to concede to some kind of certification. How can that be verified, if not through a licence? On a practical note (and I do NOT say this for any other reason than to make an observation), the chances of reversing the licensing requirement any time soon is minuscule, even if it was a good idea. The one aspect we should all be able to agree on is losing the long gun registry. Before any further steps can be realistically pursued, the Gun Zombies will have to be given several years to realize their world did not collapse after hordes of rednecks were allowed to prowl around with their nasty looking guns. The anti-gun lobby has done a good job of fear-mongering and lying for years and years and years while our so-called gun advocacy organizations sat on their hands trying to look inoffensive. There is much to be undone. There is one further aspect of this that bothers me more than licensing, in any event. That is the way firearms are suddenly banned. Just before the election was called, I had initiated an exchange of letters with Stockwell Day, my MP and Vic Toews about .50 cal barrels and certain stupid regulations imposed on gun dealers by the RCMP and/or provincial C.F.O.'s. There is reason to believe that guns and/or gun parts are being banned on purely emotional reasons and by the police. When elected representatives start delegating law-making powers to the police, we have a lot more to worry about. I never did get that chased down, but will make further inquiries after the election. So should others. It is flat-out wrong to even permit police to enact regulations, whether through a C.F.O. puppet or otherwise. Cheers, ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:54:55 -0600 From: "Todd Brown" Subject: RE: The Registry ... Yea or Nay >The fight to repeal licencing is far too important to lose. >I would be most interested in hearing your ideas, and the ideas from others on this Digest who could help enlighten me >as to way some firearms owners are willing to accept licencing. >Sincerely, >Eduardo Eduardo, In so many conversations I have had with gun owners, students, etc. ,it boils down to a lack of knowledge and understanding of the difference between a Certification system and a Licencing system....(I believe I have asked this before on the Digest). Everyone, including the politicians, do not realize( or don't care) that simple POSSESSION of a firearm is a federal offence(section 91 &92 criminal code) under the current LICENCING system. Most people I speak with still refer to the licence as a FAC and do not realize how dramatically the rules have changed. Ignorance of the current laws is still out there,....BIG TIME. The comparison to a drivers licence still makes sense to these people, until they are EDUCATED...even then, the attitude can still be "awww, it'll never happen to me". Burns my buttons...... Just my observations and opinions. Todd B PS....I vote everyone identify themselves with at least a first name...instead of hiding behind a alias. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 23:27:12 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Wrongly convicted Quebec man gets record $13.1 Mil [After 50-years, 8-years in prison and 10-years parole this victim of sloppy police work and continued flubbed injustice is due his $13.1 Mil. Also give him an Honorary Doctor of Laws degree. Note: the compassionate feds, as usual, are dragging their feet]. Wrongly convicted Quebec man gets record $13.1 Mil 14/04/2011 8:41:09 PM CBC News > http://news.sympatico.cbc.ca/canada/wrongly_convicted_quebec_man_gets_record_131m/25909da7 Réjean Hinse, a Quebecer who was wrongfully imprisoned in the 1960s before being acquitted by the Supreme Court of Canada 30 years later, is getting a record $13.1 million in compensation. The federal government will give Hinse $8.6 million, subject to a possible appeal, while Quebec settled with Hinse prior to the Quebec Superior Court judgment and will pony up $4.5 million. Hinse, who is in his early 70s, was imprisoned after a 1961 armed robbery in Mont Laurier, Que., about 250 kilometres north of Montreal. The owner of a general store was assaulted and his wife was tied up in an hour-long attack by five robbers who made off with about $4,000 on Dec. 14, 1961. Hinse spent most of the next three years behind bars until he was sentenced to 15 years in 1964. He was paroled in 1969. At a news conference in Montreal on Thursday, an emotional Hinse held used a copy of Edvard Munch's classic painting The Scream to illustrate how he felt in prison. "This defines the psychological condition I was in," he said in French. "During the trial I had headaches but after I was sentenced ... the headaches were unbearable. The only way to cope with the pain was to keep banging my head against the stone wall - a little harder, then a little harder still, until the pain I was inflicting on myself became more intense than the other pain." Once released, Hinse continued his fight to clear his name. In 1994, the Quebec Court of Appeal quashed his conviction, partly on the basis of new evidence, and ordered a stay of proceedings. But Hinse wanted his name cleared and fought to the Supreme Court in 1997. The highest court ruled that evidence presented at his trial wasn't sufficient to convict him of aggravated robbery. Hinse sued the governments in civil court in Montreal last November and December after never having received any form of apology or compensation. The federal government indicated last December it would go to appeal regardless of the amount rewarded to Hinse. But a member of Hinse's legal team, Guy Pratte, said Thursday he hopes Ottawa lawyers would have a change of heart. - --- I presume all these decisions are relevant to Mr. Hinse. Quebec Superior Court(?) Hinse c. Québec (Procureur général), 2010 QCCS 5378 (CanLII) Imprimer : Document PDF Date : 2010-11-10 Dossier : 500-05-032707-976 URL :> http://www.canlii.org/fr/qc/qccs/doc/2010/2010qccs5378/2010qccs5378.html - --- Hinse c. Québec (Procureur général), 2010 QCCS 4478 (CanLII) Imprimer : Document PDF Date : 2010-09-28 Dossier : 500-05-032707-976 URL : > http://www.canlii.org/fr/qc/qccs/doc/2010/2010qccs4478/2010qccs4478.html - --- inse c. Québec (Procureur général), 2010 QCCS 4347 (CanLII) Imprimer : Document PDF Date : 2010-09-16 Dossier : 500-05-032707-976 URL : > http://www.canlii.org/fr/qc/qccs/doc/2010/2010qccs4347/2010qccs4347.html - --- Hinse c. Québec (Procureur général), 2009 QCCS 3255 (CanLII) Imprimer : Document PDF Date : 2009-07-17 Dossier : 500-05-032707-976 URL : > http://www.canlii.org/fr/qc/qccs/doc/2009/2009qccs3255/2009qccs3255.html - --- Hinse c. Longtin, 2009 QCTP 133 (CanLII) Imprimer : Document PDF Date : 2009-11-30 Dossier : 500-07-000543-078 URL : > http://www.canlii.org/fr/qc/qctp/doc/2009/2009qctp133/2009qctp133.html - --- Hinse c. Longtin, 2007 QCCDBQ 103 (CanLII) Imprimer : Document PDF Date : 2007-11-21 Dossier : 06-07-02360 URL : > http://www.canlii.org/fr/qc/qccdbq/doc/2007/2007qccdbq103/2007qccdbq103.html - --- SCC -Acquited. R. v. Hinse, [1997] 1 S.C.R. 3 File No.: 24320. 1997: January 21. Present: Lamer C.J. and La Forest, Sopinka, Gonthier, Cory, McLachlin and Iacobucci JJ. Accordingly, the appeal is allowed, the stay of proceedings order is set aside and the acquittal of the appellant is entered. > http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1997/1997canlii394/1997canlii394.html - --- Leave to Appeal to the SCC - Granted R. v. Hinse, [1995] 4 S.C.R. 597 Print: PDF Format Date: 1995-11-30 Docket: 24320 Parallel citations: 1995 CanLII 54 (S.C.C.) • 130 D.L.R. (4th) 54 • 102 C.C.C. (3d) 289 • 44 C.R. (4th) 209 URL:> http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1995/1995canlii54/1995canlii54.html - -- Quebec Court of Appeal - Appeal granted R. v. Hinse, 1994 CanLII 5765 (QC C.A.) Print: PDF Format Date: 1994-06-08 Docket: 500-10-000204-915 URL: > http://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qcca/doc/1994/1994canlii5765/1994canlii5765.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 22:14:21 -0600 From: "Barry Snow" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #384 - -----Original Message----- From: Cdn-Firearms Digest Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 8:26 PM Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 22:08:48 -0700 (PDT) From: enigma1 Subject: CBC OLL: The Registry ... Yea or Nay Thank you Mr.Miller. Being a conscientious Canadian, I voted. It seems that the votes to date are: Nay: 21,852 Yea: 4,804 Undecided: 198 Judging from these figures, one might be correct in assuming that the 'Registry' is the only issue that torments gun owners. But after reading many contribution to this Digest, this would be incorrect. What about licencing? If this subject is so much more important, why have all the firearm owners across Canada not made 'Licencing' rather than 'Registration' a more salient issue with their gun club executive boards, provincial outdoor organizations and local members of government? Why? - ------------------------------ BECAUSE there are probably less than 200 firearms owners in Canada that understand the difference between the old fac and the new improved criminal creating licence. pal BECAUSE so few understand that there is something fundamentally WRONG with a law that has sanctions of fines, loss of property and jail time that allow the sale of a permit to break the criminal code of Canada. BECAUSE so few realize what a tenuous grasp anyone has on their GET OUT OF JAIL permit to commit a criminal act. BECAUSE so many actually believe that it is better to deny 1000 good citizens the right to these type of tools if it actually prevented bad people from the same acquisition when in actual fact, it is better let 10,000 criminals and suicidals to have firearms than to deny one righteous citizen. After all the criminal element really doesn't care a rats ass one way or the other. BECAUSE so many intuitively think that by some magical process some degree of safety is conferred by the ability to score well on an exam. BECAUSE most of these boards, orgs and govts. can't seem to grasp these obvious facts and or have taken their twenty pieces of silver and outright betrayed the memberships. Since this has been explained many times, why do you ask, Grasshopper? Barry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 02:04:32 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: "And the young men don't know what it is to be free" "The old ways are gone. The old men are dying. And the young men don't know what it is to be free." Gabriel Dumont, - Hunter, rifleman, General of the Riel Rebellions (1869, 1885) The first of which birthed the Prov. of Manitoba, for the purpose of defending the rights and traditions of Western people. An enterprise now forgotten. ========================================================== No one campaigns on a platform of Freedom or Liberty anymore. Being born free, naturally so, as sovereign individuals who elect representative government. Those elected have no power but that which is delegated to them by the citizenry, who in doing so do not give up their sovereign power. A government cannot take away the Rights and Freedoms that a citizen is born with but they can and do violate those rights. They can't take away what was not theirs to give. So they may always be reclaimed. No one explains or campaigns or proselytizes for freedom these days. It's seeds lay dormant in the dry land of political discourse. Until enough blood, sweat and tears reawaken them again to the light of day. All I know is, over these last two decades, that too many have been maimed and murdered, too many live in fear of violent criminals, too many in fear of agents of the state. That sacrificing humans to wild animals on the altar of political correctness is as wrong now as it was in the time of Moses or Mel Gibson's "Apaclypto". "Go, tell it on the mountain. Let my people, go." http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVxYhF6liTU&feature=related April 15, is the anniversary of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is largely based on the concept of Natural Rights. Though as U.S. Justice Learned Hand once said "Liberty lives in the hearts and minds of the people, when it dies there, no law or Constitution can save it. (paraphrasing from memory) Who will ask about Freedom during this election period? Oh right, it is illegal for citizens to spend money to raise an issue during a federal election. No one even questions that. There was a government sponsored bill that supported, weakly but still re-stated, the concept of self-defence. That might be a small start but a start nevertheless. On 14-Apr-11, at 8:26 PM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Why this is so I do not know. > > The fight to repeal licencing is far too important to lose. > > I would be most interested in hearing your ideas, > and the ideas from others on this Digest who could help enlighten me > as to way some firearms owners are willing to accept licencing. > > Sincerely, > > Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:11:31 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: CBC OLL: The Registry ... Yea or Nay - ----- Original Message ----- From: <10x@telus.net> To: ; Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:01 PM Subject: Re: CBC OLL: The Registry ... Yea or Nay > At 10:08 PM 13/04/2011 -0700, enigma1 wrote: >> >>Thank you Mr.Miller. >> >>Being a conscientious Canadian, I voted. It seems that the votes to date >>are: >> > Many people in this position die and property of value (unregistered guns) > can be seized and destroyed from the heirs - not the cold dead hands of > the > gun owner. > > There is much more wrong with licensing as it is engineered to be a > barrier > to possession of firearms rather than a positive force that enhancces > public safety. > I was informed on this forum that guns that are in charge of an executor CANNOT be taken from the estate as they have been passed to the estate by "operation of law" Is this correct or not ? ed/on > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:25:06 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: One for Nine in Court! Now I have to say YOU are a true Canadian patriot and hero~! for continuing your fight against tyranny ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Hudson" To: "Digest Firearms" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:20 PM Subject: One for Nine in Court! > > Thursday, 14 April 2011 > > Dear Friends, Supporters, and Compatriots, > > Re: CUFOA: Now One for Nine in Court! > > Jack Wilson & I were in "Chambers" in the Court of Appeal for > Saskatchewan in Regina yesterday - "Chambers" being a somewhat less > formal appearance before only one justice of the Court of Appeal who > deals with procedural matters. > > The case before the Court of Appeal is our Right to have a trial > before the RCMP can destroy the firearms that they have confiscated > from us. > > But the issue that necessitated our appearance before the Honourable > Justice in Chambers yesterday was that the Government of Canada was > protesting the length of our latest factum, or more correctly our > "legal argument" since "self-represented persons" may not file a > factum with the Court - factums being in the domain only of those wise > persons admitted to the Bar. > > We had submitted a "legal argument" of 30 pages while the "Rules of > Court" mandate not more than 15 pages for such "self-represented" scum > as we. > > We had to fight this restriction with a formal Notice of Motion, a > full affidavit supporting our request to be allowed the extra length, > and drive to Regina to appear personally before the Court to argue our > position. > > After I made a quick 20 second presentation stating that my reasons > for requesting the Justice to "wave the rules" were clearly stated in > my affidavit, somewhat unbelievably - at least to me - the federal > Senior Crown Council stated in Court that the Attorney General of > Canada had "instructed" him to oppose the extra length. The federal > council then advanced the argument that complying with the rules would > be "in the best interest of Canada." > > Fortunately, we were appearing before a Justice who had obviously had > a good breakfast, and the Honourable Justice affirmed my brief > rebuttal and accepted our request to allow our 30 page legal argument. > > So after eight previous unsuccessful Court cases, we have at long last > received a favourable ruling from a Court! > > We now await the factum in reply from the federal Crown Council. > > Our case will most likely be heard in September. > Please see: http://www.cufoa.ca/articles/armes/armes_11_march_2011.html > > Sincerely, > > Edward B. Hudson DVM, MS > Secretary > > Canadian Unlicensed Firearms Owners Association > Association canadienne des propri=E9taires d=92armes sans permis > 402 Skeena Court Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7K 4H2 > (306) 242-2379 (306) 230-8929 > edwardhudson@shaw.ca > www.cufoa.ca > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:29:46 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: The Registry - Registration & Licencing - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky7" To: Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:59 PM Subject: The Registry - Registration & Licencing > >> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 07:27:04 -0700 >> From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> >> Subject: RE: CBC OLL: The Registry ... Yea or Nay >> >>> What about licencing? If this subject is so much more important, why> >>> registry. Before any further steps can be realistically pursued, the > Gun Zombies will have to be given several years to realize their world > did not collapse after hordes of rednecks were allowed to prowl around > with their nasty looking guns. The anti-gun lobby has done a good job > of fear-mongering and lying for years and years and years while our > so-called gun advocacy organizations sat on their hands trying to look > inoffensive. There is much to be undone. > I dont have years and years to wait and Im sure theres many more like me at the end of our ropes .. We need it gone now ~! like yesterday ed/on ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #386 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)