Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, April 16 2011 Volume 14 : Number 389 In this issue: RE: Mountie's gun found in washroom of local business in NS 911 crash and Fox SUDBURY STAR: Crean Hill Gun Club Gun Show, May 1st OPP/PWEU raid the wrong apartment; resident still rattled LETTER: Another side of the gun debate RE: "And the young men don't know what it is to be free" Editorial: Tasering of children must be a last resort Re: Elections Canada reversal Re: 911 crash in Pentagon Licencing & Registration ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 10:41:37 -0500 From: Larry Neufeld Subject: RE: Mountie's gun found in washroom of local business in NS In cases where a firearm is left unattended in a public place a member of the general public would almost certainly be facing a criminal record, loss of personal property, and loss of firearm ownership in the future. It disturbs me that police officers never seem to be held to the same level of accountability. If there was a level playing field we could only hope that the broken firearm legislation could be corrected to focus on the criminal element instead of turning law-biding citizens into criminals. Larry Neufeld ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 09:16:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Jim Szpajcher Subject: 911 crash and Fox [Mod note: This message was in the Queue before I made the announcement that I would be sending these messages to chat] Guys - You're breakin' my heart here. Fox - "Fair and Balanced" - doesn't know what's true? Surely you jest! I suppose the next news will be that the Pentagon is going to volunteer to cut their spending so that it only exceeds the next top 10 spending nations in the world combined. This is too much to bear! What about the families? Who will pay their health care insurance? (Sarcasm mode reset to "Off") Thanks for sharing. Jim Szpajcher Apr 16, 2011 08:03:58 AM, cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca wrote: Tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth - and FOX news doesn't remember what's true and what's not any more... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, April 16, 2011 9:57 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: SUDBURY STAR: Crean Hill Gun Club Gun Show, May 1st THE SUDBURY STAR - APRIL 16, 2011 Outdoors: Hummingbirds and bluebirds returning By JOHN VANCE http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3078620 [SNIP] This week, we're going to also feature a local outdoor-oriented club. I'd mentioned that over time we'll feature our local outdoor-related fish and game clubs of the area. I was recently contacted by officials of the Crean Hill Gun Club. Here is some supplied info on how they serve Sudbury area residents. The Crean Hill Gun Club is primarily a shooting club. They have a club house with meeting facilities and a fully functioning kitchen available for events. The club has several sanctioned areas for shooting rifles, handguns, shotguns and archery. There is a 25-metre indoor range with electrically retrievable targets for handgun target shooting They also have an outdoor archery range, a trap range and a 100/200-yard outdoor rifle range with a six position heated shooting house. As well, they have a 25/50-yard outdoor range for both rifle and handgun with a three position heated shooting house. A number of club members are also involved with black powder shooting with events on the first Sunday of each month. The facilities are used by club members all year. Each year, the club holds a well-attended public gun show. This has been a popular yearly event for 27 years. This year, the theme of the show, to be held May 1, is to help promote the idea of ethical hunting and shooting in the Sudbury area and Northern Ontario. Exhibitors come from across Ontario and there are more than 100 tables of goods and services offered to the public. The range of goods found at the show usually includes hunting equipment and supplies, rifles and shotguns, archery, knives, including one of Canada's prestigious professional knife makers, and often fishing equipment. Most items are found and offered at decent pricing. Firearm owners may bring their long guns to the show to trade or sell with dealers. All current laws concerning the transport, storage and ownership of such firearms must be met. One of the most popular show exhibits belongs to the Ministry of Natural Resources. They have staff on hand and all the up-to-date hunting and fishing information. There is also an exhibit from North Shore Search and Rescue. These are the people who help in the search for lost people, including hunters and fishermen. The public can also challenge the firearms and the boating tests at the gun show. Applications to join the Crean Hill Gun Club are also available at the gun show. For more information on Crean Hill Gun Club visit: http://users.vianet.ca/gunclub/ or phone 705-929-2411. The gun show is being held at the McClelland Community Centre in Copper Cliff, on May 1 from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Parking is free and there are refreshments available during the show. Admission is $5 per adult. Children under 12 are free. Everyone is welcome. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, April 16, 2011 10:26 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: OPP/PWEU raid the wrong apartment; resident still rattled YOUROTTAWAREGION.COM Arnprior raid a success . second time around Two arrested for prohibited weapons By Erek Dunn, Apr 15, 2011 - 6:17 PM| http://www.yourottawaregion.com/news/crime/article/994146--arnprior-raid-a-success-second-time-around The OPP reported to the media about a successful end to an Arnprior apartment raid on Friday morning, April 15. But the Chronicle-Guide learned the day started out as anything but a success for Arnprior resident Steven Carrigan. Carrigan was abruptly awoken at about 7 a.m. to the sound of his door being smashed in at 8789 Claude St. Then he heard what he called a "stun grenade" explode on his son's bed, just inside the door. The 19-year-old wasn't home at the time, which is a good thing because it blew a hole through his bedspread and embedded black marks on the wall. Seconds later, according to Carrigan, 15 to 20 police - some in quasi-military fatigues - were in his adjacent bedroom pointing rifles and screaming at him to raise his arms. "They came in and cuffed me in bed. I'm naked because the blanket's off," Carrigan said. "And they are screaming at me (the suspect's name) who lives downstairs. And I said, 'No, I'm Steven. He's downstairs'." Carrigan was still rattled by the experience later that morning, and claimed the ringing was still in his head. However, it was the fact police would act that way knowing the true suspects had children inside their apartment that bothers him most. "I know they took the parents away and found some drugs and guns. But what's the policy that says they can blow up a children's room," Carrigan said. "If this is the policy, watch your children." OPP won't comment on methods used in this case, but confirmed they got the wrong apartment the first time around. A press release makes no mention of that. It does report the bust was made by members of the Organized Crime Enforcement Bureau's Provincial Weapons Enforcement Unit (PWEU), assisted by members of the bureau's Drug Enforcement Unit, OPP Tactical Response Team, OPP Emergency Response Team and the Arnprior OPP Detachment. When the search warrant was exercised in the ground floor apartment, a female, 19, and male, 24, both of Arnprior, were taken into custody. They face charges of possession of a prohibited weapon and possession of marijuana. OPP reports seizing a stun gun and marijuana in the raid. The male faces further charges of possession of a prohibited weapon while prohibited and possession of ammunition while prohibited. The investigation is continuing and police are asking anyone with more information to call the Crime Stoppers or the Arnprior OPP at 613-623-3131. Sgt. Kristine Rae said procedures used when weapons are believed present have evolved over many years and are meant to protect both officers and the public. She said the lead OPP investigator spoke extensively with the person in the upstairs after the mistake was learned. OPP and the landlord will work out the cost of damages, she said. Every operation is reviewed internally in an effort to extract best practices, Rae said. She added that a written complaint to the detachment would likely prompt an investigation by the National Professional Standards Branch of the OPP. The news release detailing the raid explains that the PWEU is a Joint Forces Unit under the direction of the OPP. The unit offers assistance to all law enforcement agencies in firearms investigations. The mandate of the PWEU is to identify and take enforcement action against persons involved in the illegal movement of firearms, ammunitions and explosives. This includes the Criminal Code offences of smuggling, trafficking and possession of 'crime guns'. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, April 16, 2011 10:30 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: LETTER: Another side of the gun debate MONTREAL GAZETTE - APRIL 16, 2011 Another side of the gun debate BY NILS EK, THE GAZETTE APRIL 16, 2011 8:44 AM http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/decision-canada/Another+side+debate/4626990/story.html In her Opinion piece on April 6 ("Trading public safety for political gain"), Heidi Rathjen of Polytechnique Students and Graduates for Gun Control said she feels viscerally betrayed by former police-union boss Jean-Guy Dagenais. As a candidate for the Conservative Party in the federal election, Dagenais - who in his former policeunion role supported the long-gun registry - is calling for the registry's abolition. Rathjen's sense of betrayal is regrettable, but it would be as big a stretch for me to announce that I truly feel her pain as to swallow her claim that Dagenais selfishly cast aside his concern for public safety in exchange for a shot at supporting an organization that she vaguely calls "the gun lobby." I respect Rathjen and others who work for what they sincerely believe to be everyone's benefit, but I simply cannot agree with much that she has written. While she calls for a rational, fact-based approach, Rathjen's appeal is to our emotions. She charges that the Conservatives have an "intense hatred" of the gun registry and keeps referring to "the gun lobby." Perhaps the negative connotations will convince some people of her argument, which by itself is logically weak and misleading. For example, claiming that the cost of the registry to the public is "pennies per Canadian per year" is misleading in the extreme, since she neglects to mention its ridiculously high setup cost. In the view of many Canadians, spending that billion-plus dollars on better mental-health resources, shelters for women and the homeless, and community policing would have had a far more beneficial impact on public safety. I find it bizarre for Rathjen to insinuate that Stephen Harper is vowing to scrap the long-gun registry in order to create a divide between urban and rural Canadians that he hopes will finally win him a majority. If Harper were that intent on winning at all costs, why on Earth would he be courting rural voters, who are outnumbered by urban voters in Canada? Rathjen also fails to clearly distinguish between firearms licences and gun registration. One may consider automobiles as an analogy. Drivers must be licensed. If a driver is unqualified, or a menace to others, you either don't issue, or you take away, his or her driver's licence. Only if the driver is guilty of certain offences is the vehicle impounded; otherwise the registration of the vehicle is, in effect, irrelevant. True "car control" - the promotion of safe driver behaviour - is better accomplished by licensing drivers, not registering their cars. The Canadian long-gun registry has had the support of police chiefs, perhaps because the registry offers empire-building opportunities to bureaucrats. But no one can actually explain how the registry provides real protection for the cops on the street, because it doesn't. Finally, the incidence of death by firearm was already falling before the registry arrived, so it is deceptive to claim that it was the registry that caused the decrease. In the end, Rathjen cannot tell us in clear language how the long-gun registry increases public safety and saves lives, because it does neither. - ---------------------- THE BRANTFORD EXPOSITOR - APRIL 15, 2011 re: Gun registry a good thing By Chris Potts http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3077199 The CEP, a union over which Dave Coles presides, is a well known supporter of the Coalition for Gun Control. The Coalition for Gun Control is an organization fueled by anti-firearms rhetoric, Liberal slush funds and the very organizations that get paid for the billion dollar boondoggle. Mr. Coles is not reaching out in support of the registry as a firearms owner, but as a Coalition for Gun Control and NDP supporter. Front line Police officers do not support the registry, they know criminals do not register guns, they know the registry is full of mistakes, they know less than half of the firearms in Canada are registered. They also know how much good the tens of millions poured into the registry every year, on top of the two billion spend already, could do if directed towards front line policing, mental and general health projects, or imagine this, just not spent! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 09:38:56 -0700 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: "And the young men don't know what it is to be free" I should ask what your idea of freedom is. Freedom from government and corporate coersion is a good place to start. To be left alone to live my life, provided I do not engage in violence or theft (including fraud) against others. To have the support of law should I need to defend myself against physical or economic threats. True choice in education, medicine and consensual social activities. Of course to accomplish any of this requires the rolling back of our growing police state, euphemistically called a "regulatory democracy". Since "regulatory democracy" grows out of globalization, it will of course be necessary to regain sovereignty. Libertarians trust too much in the good will of all, which is the same flaw statists have (that evil men somehow become angels when entrusted with the power of government). Government needs to be as small as possible, but there is a place for it as long as citizens can readily control it. I think the ideas of WAC Bennett are a good place to start, where we the people own our own infrastructure (roads and bridges, energy and communications) assuring a solid and accessable foundation for individuals and businesses to build their lives and operations. WAC Bennett's Social Credit built BC, and it took the NDP and the provincial Liberals to destroy it by giving it to their cronies. Power should be at the community level where possible. Power should never be global under any circumstances. Clive >Please define your idea of "freedom " >ed/on > > Freedom is the core value and only platform of the Western Block Party. > > Clive Edwards > Western Block Party > Candidate for Chilliwack - Fraser Canyon > PO 1073 CSP Vedder Crossing > Chilliwack, BC V2R 3N7 > 45clive@telus.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, April 16, 2011 10:42 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Editorial: Tasering of children must be a last resort CALGARY HERALD - APRIL 16, 2011 Editorial: Tasering of children must be a last resort http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Editorial+Tasering+children+must+last+resort/4625136/story.html The Tasering of an 11-year-old by a junior RCMP officer in British Columbia has rightfully put the controversial use of these weapons back under public scrutiny. The RCMP have so far released little information about the April 7 incident in Prince George, other than a brief statement saying the boy was a suspect in the stabbing of a 37-year-old man at a group home. The boy fled to a neighbouring property, where he was found by police and arrested. "Efforts were made to get the individual out of the house, and when he emerged from the home, a conducted energy weapon was deployed by a member," said the statement. The officer, who has just 18 months experience, has been placed on administrative leave while the West Vancouver Police Department investigates the case. The first disappointment is that police are using other police to investigate their conduct more than three years after the Robert Dziekanski tragedy and despite two public inquiries that recommended the establishment of a civilian-based investigative body, modelled on Ontario's Special Investigations Unit. The lack of information at this stage is perhaps understandable after the Mounties mangled the media response to Dziekanski's death in October 2007 at Vancouver International Airport. RCMP released factually inaccurate information in the early stages of the criminal investigation, and then chose not to correct the inaccuracies. The report from the internal investigation into the Prince George incident must be made public - the sooner, the better. The incident is another blow to the reputation of the once-proud Canadian institution, with strong criticism coming from high-profile observers. Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond, B.C.'s representative for children and youth, believes police should never be using Tasers on children. She'll be conducting her own review into the case, because it's the province's responsibility to ensure the safety of kids in foster care or group homes. "When we think about this being a very young aboriginal, vulnerable child, 11 years old, living away from home, in a group home, I can't think of a more vulnerable child," she said, adding the boy was assessed in hospital and released back into custody. The Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP issued a news release saying it too is "closely monitoring the case." Amnesty International Canada believes this is the youngest person to ever be Tasered by police in Canada. Central Saanich Police Service is the only force in B.C. to prohibit the use of stun guns on children, the elderly, pregnant women and other vulnerable people. Ultimately, clear regulations restricting the use of conducted energy weapons on children are needed, and they should be consistent across all police forces in the country. The use of a Taser on a child should be permitted only in the rarest of circumstances. It should be deployed only if there is an immediate threat to life and after all lesser ways of de-escalating the situation have been exhausted. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 13:05:45 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Elections Canada reversal Canada is communist much like the US ,the leaders do what they want and to he** with the electorate Democracy ? whats that ? its just a word on a *amn piece of paper . ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky7" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 5:28 PM Subject: Elections Canada reversal > Elections Canada decided today that an ad hoc "election" held at the > University of Guelph this morning is fine. > > The Canada Elections Act governs how elections are called and held. The > G.G. sets the date, not the students' union at some third-rate university. > > For example: > > "172. Notice of advance poll > > Each returning officer shall, not later than Saturday, the 16th day before > polling day, > (a) give a notice, in the prescribed form, in the electoral district of > the > advance poll, that sets out the following information: > (i) the numbers of the polling divisions in every advance polling district > established by the returning officer, > (ii) the location of each advance polling station, > (iii) the place where the deputy returning officer of each advance polling > station shall count the number of votes cast at the advance polling > station, > and > (iv) that the counting of the votes cast shall take place on polling day > as > soon after the close of the polling stations as possible; and > (b) send two copies of the notice to each candidate and to the Chief > Electoral Officer." > > It appears none of that was done. > > Where were the scrutineers from each Party? Or does Elections Canada > think > we just need Liberal scrutineeers? > > Elections Canada is the same outfit that got all riled up at the > Conservatives, issuing warrants, threatening prosecutions, etc. for this: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DivADc97qfY > > How can we have any faith or trust in Elections Canada? > > Looks like we now need an International Monitor for our elections. I'm > thinking of finding out how a request is made to the U.N. > > Absolutely stunning...... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 13:13:02 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: 911 crash in Pentagon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Martindale" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 5:15 PM Subject: Re: 911 crash in Pentagon > Sheesh. > Wanna lose your toys? Vote liberal, NDP, Green, Western Block, BQ, > Mcgillicuddy Silly Party. Wanna have a sniff of a chance of keeping > them? Apart from coating them in cosmoline and burying them under > some pretty big rocks to avoid ground penetrating radar, only one of > the parties has at least said that they're going to do something > positive about some of the aspects of the FA. Whether I've been > where I am long enough to actually vote, I'm not sure, but that's > an entirely other question. The answer is obvious : criminals dont bury their guns under rocks and dont have paperwork for them? so whats the big deal? And the gun charges they get are bargained away .Not like" legal' gun-owners who are saddled with lawyers fees and penury therefrom, and getting possibly tasered ,(stapler and comb) definitely strip searched in public (LOGAN) and other humiliating aspects of being "legal" . Its time the ones who are paying the freight stood up to government and told them where to head in, NOT the other way around. Is brutality and police harassment of "legal" gun-owners on the election platform of ANY party ?? I think not. "least said that they're going to do something positive about some of the aspects of the FA" Its the carrot on the stick to legal gun-owners, nothing more. IF? they were going to do SOMETHING ? THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT THROUGH oic`S Now , even if they do ? remove the owners piece of paper ,?they can brag that they "kept " their promise after they get a majority.? All theyre going to do is require gun-owners to register their guns through the back door You will STILL need to register any sale/purchase of long guns at Mirimichi by phone. Which incidentally keeps MORE deadwood on the government teat. Your tax dollars at work. If this is NOT registering please tell me what is ? All the CPC has said they'll do ? is not require legal gun-owners to have that piece of registry paper. Ask yourself why ? do they want to know who owns what ?? Are they afraid of the public? ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 14:08:27 -0600 From: Rocky7 Subject: Licencing & Registration > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 18:38:49 -0600 > From: Joe Gingrich > Subject: Yea or Nay, Registry > > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:47:37 -0700 (PDT) > From: Bruce Mills > Subject: RE: The Registry ... Yea or Nay > > I have yet to find any argument in favour of licensing that doesn't > ultimately boil down to either "Because I say so" or "It would make me > feel better"; they are all based on emotional, what-if, worst case > scenarios, not logic or reason. > > Yours in TYRANNY! > Bruce - --------------------------------------------------------------------------= > > In addition, where are the research studies showing any "gun control" > measure which reduces crime and improves public safety? If you've got > them, flaunt them. > > Yours in Tyranny, too > Joe Gingrich > White Fox We're not going to agree. That's just fine. I hope both of you keep advocating your beliefs and opinions. We need each other. You point out what you think should be. History may prove you right. But it is pragmatists like me who are able to stop the train and hand Gun Zombies their first defeat in this country. You need that. We could use MORE groups of gun advocates in this country, not fewer. And we need - most of all - to protect each other's freedom of speech. That is the ultimate key to winning - the right to free speech. That is why Progressives try to censor both of us with this concept of what is "politically correct". Neither my disagreement with you nor yours with me should be seen by anyone as an attempt to silence the other side. Persuade - yes. Silence - no. The NRA understands how one right supports the other and that is why the NRA has historically been the most steadfast supporter of the Right to Free Speech. We can take a lesson from that. It has worked for them. I can work for us. The U.S. also has many, many gun advocacy groups. Most States have at least one big organization. Plus, there are multiple national organizations. I think we can learn from that, too. And if anybody hears of some new plain-talking, stand up, informed, new gun advocacy organization in this country with a take-no-prisoners attitude, please me know. Cheers, ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #389 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)