Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, October 9 2011 Volume 14 : Number 704 In this issue: Langmann on Rutherford Re: Gun registry a suicide prevention issue: Physicians [none] Farmer who shot ATV thief gets 90 days in jail re: "Pax Americana RCMP, wildlife officers to crack down on moose hunters ... Store Firearms and Ammo Separately, Sask. Assc. for Firearm Embed for two days in a War of 1812 re-enactment Safety First During Moose Hunt Re: Store Firearms and Ammo Separately, Sask. Assc. for Firearm They're at it again, from the D'oh Zone . The union also paid for lawn signs in Miramichi "Anyone but Tilly" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 08:55:38 -0600 From: Rocky7 Subject: Langmann on Rutherford Go to http://www.qr77.com/other/AudioVault.html and then scroll to 10:30. It's only available for 10 days, I think. R7 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 08:59:45 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Gun registry a suicide prevention issue: Physicians My wife is an E.R physician in a rural hospital and has been for over 30 years. Last night she saw the third gunshot wound of her career, a suicide. Many physicians have worked longer and seen fewer gunshot wounds. If physicians believe the method of suicide is the catalyst and root cause of the suicide then maybe those physicians should learn something about suicide. Those who decide to commit suicide and commit to the act then decide a means to consummate the act of suicide. That is why there is displacement by other means when one means is restricted or eliminated. Not one of the research studies linking firearms to suicide is valid as NOT ONE of the research studies deals with non gun suicides in instances where a gun is available. That lack of significant data makes every study on guns and suicide incomplete and invalid. Also the belief that objects have the power to influence the morals and thought processes of humans is not one that educated folks would subscribe to. Strangely enough Doctors (and others) do not blame the rope when folks hang themselves, or blame the bridge when some one jumps from it. Yet they blame firearms when someone uses one for suicide. Bottom line, suicide is a result of depression and the decision to commit suicide arises from that depression. The method - rope, auto exhaust, pantyhose, drugs, or guns is not relevant to that decision as the method is always chosen after the decision to commit suicide is made. As for physicians prescribing anti depressants that result in suicide - it should be noted that depressed people may not have the ambition and will to carry out their suicidal urges. In the course of lifting that depression the prescribed antidepressant may well give the person enough ambition and will to complete a wish of suicide. Does that mean we hold a prescribing physician responsible for the death of a suicidal patient? __________________ Over THREE MILLION gun owners in Canada didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!! "We are losing all confidence in our right to assign guilt." Marshall McLuhan And that is why we have the criminals we now have. Those who are anti gun owner are seldom right but never in doubt.... At , you wrote: >VANCOUVER SUN - OCTOBER 8, 2011 >Letter: Gun registry a suicide prevention issue: Physicians >BY ALAN DRUMMOND >http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/registry+suicide+prevention+issue+Physi cians/5523248/story.html > >Re: Gun killings unaffected by firearm control, Oct. 6 >http://www.vancouversun.com/news/killings+unaffected+firearm+control/551059 6/story.html > >The Conservative's principal argument has been that the provisions of the >Gun Control Bill have not been effective as a crime control measure and that >the bill victimizes rural, long gun owners. They conveniently forget that 75 >per cent of firearms deaths in Canada are due to suicide. Rural Canadians >are overrepresented in this sad statistic and the great majority of these >are caused by long guns. For Canada's emergency physicians, the issue of gun >control is not that of crime control but rather as suicide prevention. >Overall, firearm-related suicides decreased by 43 per cent since the >introduction of stricter gun laws in 1991 and by 23 per cent since the >introduction of the Firearms Act in 1995. This issue deserves our attention >with respect to gun control, particularly during a week when we have heard >impassioned speeches on the floor of the House Of Commons about a national >strategy for the prevention of suicide. > >Alan Drummond, MD Chair, Public Affairs, Canadian Association of Emergency >Physicians > >-------------------------- > >SUICIDES BY FIREARM AND BY HANGING > > ALL GUN ROPE >1991 3593 1110 1034 >1992 3704 1050 1151 >1993 3803 1054 1234 >1994 3746 975 1270 >1995 3968 916 1382 >1996 3937 883 1414 >1997 3677 818 1409 >1998 3698 818 1434 >1999 4073 807 1755 >2000 3605 685 1546 >2001 3688 651 1509 >2002 3648 633 1570 >2003 3765 618 1662 >2004 3613 568 1590 >2005 3743 593 1682 >2006 3512 586 1529 >2007 3611 534 1551 > >Source: Statistics Canada, Canadian Vital Statistics, Death Database > >http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/hlth66a-eng.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 09:57:38 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca (Majordomo) Subject: [none] > Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:02:32 -0600 From: Rocky7 To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Wildrose Gun Policies Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:02:32 -0600 > From: Larry James Fillo > Subject: Re: "Wildrose Firearms Policy"-Digest V14 #702 > > Nothing here about how a province can protect it's citizen's rights > from being violated by > Ottawa. If the Wildrose Alliance won't assert provincial > jurisdiction but simply sluff it off > as a "federal" issue, they'd be doing the political sidestep sell > out of their predecessors. > > "stern" sentencing? I know what a stern look is but stern sentencing > seems pretty vague. > > "especially so for crimes involving firearms", explain please why a > murderer by hacking to > death with a machete or beating to death with a baseball bats, > deserves less than the > criminal that uses a firearm? Having worked hard on drafting and submitting much better, more detailed and comprehensive gun policies and having seen better and specific policies passed unanimously at our and other Constituency Associations AND adopted at the last AGM, I am profoundly disappointed in this edited publication. It appears the WRA Executive (not Danielle Smith, I am quite sure) doesn't have the guts to be honest and will sacrifice it's avowed commitment to "grass roots direction" in favour of something else, cultivated by those who "know better". R7 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, October 8, 2011 9:22 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Farmer who shot ATV thief gets 90 days in jail CALGARY HERALD - OCTOBER 8, 2011 Farmer who shot ATV thief gets 90 days in jail Became celebrity among property rights activists By Alexandra Zabjek, Edmonton Journal; With Files From Andrea Sands, Edmonton Journal http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Farmer+shot+hief+gets+days+jail/5522869/story.html A central Alberta farmer who shot an ATV thief who crept onto his property was sentenced Friday to 90 days in jail. The case of Brian Russell Knight had become a cause celebre among property rights activists, sparked debate about vigilante justice, and even drew comments from former premier Ed Stelmach, who said he understood why Knight's neighbours rallied behind him and set up a trust fund to aid his legal defence. But a lawyer for the 41-year-old Tees-area farmer could not convince a Red Deer judge that Knight should receive no jail time for shooting Harold Groening on March 26, 2009. Knight will be allowed to serve his sentence on weekends in Red Deer's remand centre. He is also under the supervision of a probation officer. "Vigilante cases like this are few and far between, thankfully," Crown prosecutor Jason Snider said after court. "The judge took note of the use of the firearm in the commission of the offence. One of the major factors was that the shotgun was used. Mr. Knight clearly has the right to defend his property, but when you shoot somebody that is running away from you, criminal liability is going to be attached." Snider said judges generally allow intermittent sentences for low-risk offenders without a history of disobeying court demands. "So a person like Mr. Knight, without a prior record and that has ties to the community - he lives in Bashaw or in the Tees area and has family and all that - he's certainly not a flight risk. He's a good risk to believe that he will show up and serve his sentence." The Crown had argued for a 90-day sentence. The defence wanted a conditional discharge, which would have left Knight without a criminal record after a period of probation. Knight pleaded guilty in January to causing bodily harm by criminal negligence. Court has previously heard that Groening and two other men went onto Knight's farm that night, and silently pushed an ATV, with keys in the ignition, to a rural road. All three men were under the influence of drugs and alcohol. As the men struggled to lift the four-wheeler into the back of their truck on the road, the noise awoke Knight and his wife. After lights turned on at the farm, two of the thieves drove away in the truck, while Groening took the ATV. Knight pursued Groening in a car. The two vehicles collided when Groening tried to veer across the road. He and the ATV were thrown in the ditch, yet Groening got to his feet and began running through a field. Knight stopped his vehicle, raised a 12-gauge shotgun and aimed it in the general direction of the ATV thief. Court has previously heard the shotgun was loaded with a "light type of birdshot" that struck Groening, who fell to the ground. When he got up, Knight fired again, though Groening continued to flee. Knight then recruited his brother and other local farmers to help find the man who had tried to steal his ATV. When Groening was found, he was brought back to Knight's property and the RCMP called. Groening, 32, who was briefly hospitalized after the incident, pleaded guilty to theft under $5,000 on April 22, 2010, and was sentenced to 30 days in jail. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 08:49:38 -0700 From: Todd Birch Subject: re: "Pax Americana It's sad to watch the decline of the American Empire/Pax Americana. Long gone are the 'General Bull Moose' days of 'what's good for America is good for the world'. It's like watching the dismembering of the British Empire post WWII. When I was a kid, the world map was largely British red, the sun truly not setting on the Empire. The major players in geo-politics have changed, the US can no longer afford to police the world, China emerging as the new economic engine; the awakening of the Chinese Dragon. With the majority of returning US soldiers of the opinion that the Iraq/Afghanistan wars have not been worth the sacrifice or the cost in dollars, it becomes increasingly difficult to continue the undeclared war effort. Coupled with the Wall Street occupations around the country, it isn't a good time for the Americans - politically or economically. The famed 'military/industrial' complex is grinding to a halt, US unemployment in double digits and no sign of a return to what once was. This isn't the "change" that Obama campaigned on. Time to let the Afghans and Iraqis run their own affairs. Once the latest retreat from Kandahar is accomplished, it will be like we were never there, just as it was historically. If that means the Taliban rules the roost, so be it. Change will happen when the people want it, not by dint of foreign occupation. Bring the troops home. "Rome is under attack and many of her Legions are far from home." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, October 8, 2011 9:51 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: RCMP, wildlife officers to crack down on moose hunters ... ... hunting from the highways THE WEEKEND TELEGRAM - OCTOBER 7, 2011 RCMP, wildlife officers to crack down on moose hunters hunting from the highways http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2011-10-07/article-2770048/RCMP-wildlife-officers-to-crack-down-on-moose-hunters-hunting-from-the-highways/1 RCMP on the Bonavista Peninsula and at many other RCMP detachments in the province have been receiving complaints from motorists who allege moose hunters travelling at low speeds along the highways are causing potential dangerous situations. The RCMP says the force will be looking to wildlife enforcement to make joint patrols with them to check for infractions under the Highway Traffic Act, the Wildlife Act and the firearms sections of the Criminal Code. The RCMP says moose hunters are travelling at slow speeds impeding traffic, stopping abruptly, parking on the shoulder of the road with part of the vehicle still on the pavement, and even firing their weapons from the roadway. Police say these illegal actions are dangerous and outside of the morals and values of true hunters. The offences carry large penalties starting at a few hundreds dollars for impeding traffic, to larger fines, seizure of firearms and seizure of vehicles for those who are observed as hunting from the road. The RCMP will be making patrols and enforcing the law with zero tolerance. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, October 8, 2011 9:56 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Store Firearms and Ammo Separately, Sask. Assc. for Firearm Education Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Saskatoonhomepage.ca - October 7, 2011 Store Firearms and Ammo Separately http://www.saskatoonhomepage.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=35556&Itemid=421 The General Manager of the Saskatchewan Association for Firearm Education says 80 per cent of all firearm accidents happen within ten metres of the muzzle. Hunting season is upon us and the Canada Safety Council is urging residents, in homes where firearms are present, to ensure the guns are unloaded and locked up when they are not in use. According to an emergency physician there are plenty of gun related injuries and deaths seen in emergency rooms. Those are often the result of domestic disputes, or self inflicted. Dr. Alan Drummond says because those are often impulsive acts a locked up firearm, with ammunition stored in a separate place, will make the rifle less readily available. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, October 8, 2011 10:04 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Embed for two days in a War of 1812 re-enactment THE HAMILTON SPECTATOR - OCTOBER 8, 2011 The war that saved Canada By Danielle Wong Loading muskets, wearing scratchy shirts and sleeping on the ground all in the name of history http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/604360--the-war-that-saved-canada "Now would be a good time to die." The soldiers in blue were too close for comfort, coming closer and closer. Private Glyn Parsons spoke calmly, just loudly enough so I could hear above the shots and the cracking voices of men succumbing to their injuries across the field. "Now?" This wasn't how I was planning to go. There were too many people watching. "If there's a volley, just fall knees-first." I hit the grass, surprised at how delicately I managed to tumble face down while carrying a replica musket. The rumbling from the cannon and muskets firing over me felt even closer when all I could see was the inside of my slightly-too-large shako (a tall military cap) and the ants crawling over my face. When I heard my unit marching away several moments later, I suddenly felt exposed, even though I was baking underneath layers of wool. I was tempted to flip over, but I spotted a man in jeans with a camera, snapping a picture of me, and I resisted the temptation to break character and tried to look as deceased as possible. Clearly, I should have died in the shade. When I agreed to embed myself for two days in a War of 1812 re-enactment near Port Rowan, southwest of Port Dover, my main concern as someone who hates guns and video-game manifestations of them was carrying a weapon that weighed about 12 pounds, more than 10 per cent of my body mass. [READ MORE AND SEE THE PICTURES AND VIDEO] http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/604360--the-war-that-saved-canada ------------------------------ Date: Sat, October 8, 2011 10:10 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Safety First During Moose Hunt WAWA-NEWS.COM - OCTOBER 7, 2011 Safety First During Moose Hunt Written by Ministry of Natural Resources http://www.wawa-news.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9849&Itemid=99999999 The Ministry of Natural Resources will be conducting heightened enforcement activity in the northeast region this fall as part of an annual safety-first campaign. In particular, during the regular gun season for moose from October 8 to 22, conservation officers will be checking hunters regarding hunter orange requirements and safe use of firearms. Fines range from $100 to $250 for offences involving these matters. In more serious cases, offenders could face fines of up to $25,000 or imprisonment or both. Hunting Rules To ensure a safe and lawful hunt, hunters are reminded that: . All persons in possession of a firearm for the purpose of hunting shall not handle or discharge it or cause it to be handled or discharged without due care for persons or property. . Any hunting injury caused by the discharge of a firearm resulting in medical treatment by a physician must be reported to a conservation officer. . If you are in an area inhabited by wildlife, or on the way to or from an area inhabited by wildlife, you cannot have a loaded firearm in a vehicle, motorboat, or aircraft. It is illegal to discharge a firearm from any of these modes of transportation. There are exceptions for mobility-impaired persons and for persons hunting waterfowl. . It is not legal to shoot from, down or across a public road. . For half an hour before sunrise to half an hour after sunset, it is not legal to be in possession of an uncased or loaded firearm in an area usually inhabited by wildlife. An exception exists for hunting racoons at night. . All hunters must wear solid hunter orange clothing (minimum of 400 square inches = 2,580 square centimetres) and a hunter orange head cover, except during a "bows-only" season. Mesh type construction vests are not acceptable. . A hunter cannot possess a game seal issued to another person. Ontario has a new Moose Tag Transfer Policy. Please consult the 2011-2012 Hunting Regulations Summary for more information. . Hunters must make sure they are targeting a moose for which they are licensed. They need to be able to distinguish between a bull, cow and calf moose. . A hunter who has killed a moose must immediately attach the game seal to the moose in the manner prescribed on the seal, and it must remain attached during transportation. . Hunters must disassemble and remove any temporary structures erected for hunting moose on Crown land. Under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, a firearm includes air guns, bows and crossbows, along with traditional rifles and shotguns. A firearm is considered loaded if there is a cartridge in the chamber or a magazine that is attached to the firearm. Bows, crossbows, and muzzleloaders have various definitions of 'loaded'. Conservation officers may also enforce Small Vessel Regulations and sections of the Liquor Licence Act. For information on hunting regulations and moose seasons, please consult the 2011-2012 Hunting Regulations Summary, available from licence issuers, ServiceOntario/Government Information Centres and on the ministry's website at ontario.ca/hunting If you see moose poaching, or to report a natural resources violation, call 1-877-TIPS-MNR (847-7667) toll-free any time or contact your local ministry office during regular business hours. You can also call Crime Stoppers anonymously at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, October 8, 2011 10:12 am From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Store Firearms and Ammo Separately, Sask. Assc. for Firearm At , Dennis & Hazel Young wrote: >Education >Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca >Precedence: normal >Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > >Saskatoonhomepage.ca - October 7, 2011 >Store Firearms and Ammo Separately >http://www.saskatoonhomepage.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3 5556&Itemid=421 > >The General Manager of the Saskatchewan Association for Firearm Education >says 80 per cent of all firearm accidents happen within ten metres of the >muzzle. Hunting season is upon us and the Canada Safety Council is urging >residents, in homes where firearms are present, to ensure the guns are >unloaded and locked up when they are not in use. > >According to an emergency physician there are plenty of gun related injuries >and deaths seen in emergency rooms. Those are often the result of domestic >disputes, or self inflicted. Dr. Alan Drummond says because those are often >impulsive acts a locked up firearm, with ammunition stored in a separate >place, will make the rifle less readily available. > My wife has been a rural Emergency room physician for over 30 years and has spend 100,000s of thousands of hours in the E.R. Last night (Oct. 7) she saw the third gunshot victim of her career. Other physicians in the same rural hospital have seen far fewer gunshot wounds. That puts the LIE to gunshot wounds in Canada's E.R.s being "Common". As for the firearm being "readily available" there is absolutely NO DATA or EVIDENCE that any of the gun laws imposed regarding storage and safety have had any impact in crime. In fact statistics Canada shows an INCREASE in firearms accidents in 2003, some five years after safe storage and mandatory safety training came into force. It is a criminal code offense to NOT store guns safely in Canada. Has been so since December 1, 1998. It seems Mr. Drummond has an agenda and that agenda has conflicts with reality. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 10:46:21 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: They're at it again, from the D'oh Zone . Len sez: By 'they' I mean the doctors . . I am conflicted in this posting . . Now, Doctor Alan Drummond, Chair, Public Affairs, Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians. Vancouver Sun: ''Gun registry a suicide prevention issue: Physicians'' ''Re: gun killings unaffected by firearms control, Oct 6. The Conservative's principal argument has been that the provisions of the Gun Control Bill have not been effective as a crime control measure and that the bill victimizes rural, long gun owners. They conveniently forget that 75 percent of firearms deaths are due to suicide. Rural Canadians are over represented in this sad statistic and the great majority are caused by long guns. (Gee, Doc, do you think that may be because there are no bridges to jump from, or railway crossings where they can stand? OR getting drunk and ramming your car into oncoming traffic . . With regards to our own CFD doctors who would never pose such uninformed opinion, much less 'beak off' about it . . ) For Canada's emergency physicians, the issue of gun control is not that of crime control ( ya think?) but rather as suicide prevention. Overall, firearm related suicides decreased (Prof. Gary Mauser says SUICIDES remained the same) . . by 43 percent since the introduction of The Firearms Act in 1995. This issue deserves our attention with respect to gun control, particularly during the week when we have heard impassioned speeches on the floor of ( The HOUSE) about a national strategy for the prevention of suicide. Gun deaths ? vs. Doctor deaths ? 9,000 to one Sir. IATROGENIC deaths . . doctor AS a former cop, I would ask the Vancouver Sun to give EQUAL publicity to those who know something about firearms . . Len Miller Vancouver where gun deaths keep their newly found level . . ( if you want to commit suicide: join a gang. ) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, October 9, 2011 9:13 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: The union also paid for lawn signs in Miramichi "Anyone but Tilly" OTTAWA CITIZEN - OCTOBER 9, 2011 Unions spent $400,000 on ads before federal vote By Glen McGregor, Postmedia News http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Unions+spent+before+federal+vote/5524216/story.html Newly released financial reports show unions spent more than $400,000 on political ads during the spring federal election campaign. The dollar total emerges as the federal NDP faces questions about money it received from labour unions for convention advertising. Reports filed with Elections Canada show public-sector and trade unions funded third-party ad buys in newspapers, websites and on radio across the country leading up to voting day on May 2. Most of the union-funded ads were non-partisan on their face, but opposition parties were the likely beneficiaries of campaigns that questioned the wisdom of cutting public service jobs - as advocated by the Conservatives. Among the biggest advertisers was the Public Service Alliance of Canada, which spent $134,000, mostly on a radio blitz the day before Canadians went to the polls. In the week before voting day, the alliance launched radio ads encouraging Canadians to vote in support of the public service, with spots heard on radio stations in Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Saskatoon and elsewhere. The union also paid for lawn signs in Miramichi, N.B., encouraging voting for "Anyone but Tilly" - a reference to local Conservative MP Tilly O'Neill-Gordon. The Public Service Alliance of Canada targeted the riding because of fears that unionized employees who work on the federal gun registry would be laid off. O'Neill-Gordon was re-elected, despite the union's efforts. The Professional Institute of the Public Service spent $166,000, much of it on promoting a debate it hosted at the University of Ottawa that saw federal candidates discussing the future of the public service. The union also paid to set up forthepublicgood.ca, a website highlighting the value of the public service. The Canadian Union of Public Employees, the Canadian Auto Workers union, the B.C. Teachers Federation and the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada also reported third-party advertising during the campaign. The new figures come as Elections Canada is looking into a complaint that the NDP accepted thousands of dollars from unions for advertising at the party's national convention in June. The Conservatives allege the ads were a scheme to skate around the law that forbids corporations and unions from making donations to political parties. The NDP says the ads were sold at fair-market value and were entirely legal. Unions also indirectly funded third-party ads by giving to advocacy groups, such as Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada, which received $5,000 from each of the Public Service Alliance of Canada and the Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions. Les Sans-Chemise, which represents a coalition of labour groups, received $34,000 from Quebec trade unions for radio ads, placards and signage. And the Canadian Health Coalition, a union-funded organization that advocates for publicly funded health care, spent $33,000 on printing and postage for flyers. Third parties are limited by Elections Canada to spending $188,250 nationally and $3,765 for ads in each riding that promote or oppose a candidate. Although the Harper government lowered the limit on contributions to federal parties to $1,100 per person, there is no limit on contributions made to third parties to fund their ads. The third-party reports show the conservative advocacy group National Citizens Coalition took in $168,960 to fund its advertising purchases, with 12 donors giving amounts greater than the $1,100 cap that would restrict them had they made donations to political parties. The coalition received four donations of $10,000 each, including one from Robert Colborne, president of Pacific Western Transportation in Calgary, and another from Bruce Orr of Vancouver's Intercity Realty. During a hiatus from serving as an MP, Prime Minister Stephen Harper worked as the National Citizens Coalition director and led its court challenge against the third-party spending restrictions. His group lost before the Supreme Court in a case styled - to opposition parties' continued delight - as Harper v. Canada. Ottawa Citizen ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #704 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)